So the platoon DID kill us

[sefus12]

Can't disagree.

The interests of UK > the appeasement of the players & families.

At least that's how it should work when you are employed by a University.

That 38-1 record with some absolute beat-downs of really good teams certainly shows that Cal didn't do what was in the interest of UK.

Some of you are insufferable right now. I know the way the season ended sucked but to act like this year was a failure completely boggles my mind. It was a fantastic year with one blemish at a bad time. That game didn't prove Cal did the wrong thing with this team or put the interests of UK on the back-burner.

 

[UK90]

Marketing....not hard to figure out what plate of red meat to serve to attract hits. This is my only knock on KSR, they tend to play to the echo chamber much like Alex Jones. You just listen to the chatter and serve up something that plays to it.

Well put. That is EXACTLY what I get the impression Jones does. He clearly reads these message boards (and occasionally posts on them) and his KSR posts often just seem to echo whatever opinion was popular on this board that week.

This is a good example. Earlier this week there were several threads started by people giving the opinion that they think the platoon system hurt recruiting, albeit without any actual evidence to back it up. Those threads got lots of discussion. And immediately after that Jones writes this KSR piece virtually echoing the exact same words, but also without any sources or actual evidence to back it up. Then the people with the original threads feel like their opinion was validated because Matt Jones also said it, when really he's just sticking his finger in the air to see which way the opinion wind is blowing and then saying the same thing..

 

[toonces11]

I think it was not the platooning as much as how the media sold it - all this talk about the players sacrificing stats for the team, balanced scoring, etc. UK's scoring was balanced because we really didn't have one guy - until the end of the year with KAT - who was a reliable consistent scorer. It didn't have that much to do with platooning.

Kids don't want to hear that - kids like Newman want to be stars and first team All-Americans. Everyone seemed to forget that Cal's past UK teams have been much more like Dukes was this year - a core of 6-7 guys, than the logjam we had this year.

How the media sold it? It was forced down the media's throats by your own coach. He basically brought it up every interview he could and played it up as much as he could.

 

[Rocketman101]

Kentucky will always bring in top players, now they have to compete with Duke and Kansas for oad. If Carolina wins the tittle this coming season, they will start bringing the top talent back in.

 

[RoyKent]

Well...I think this may be proof that platooning did kill us in recruiting.

http://www.coachcal.com/34612/2015/05/we-may-never-platoon-again-but-players-will-always-come-first/

If you ask me if I’m ever going to platoon again, my answer is NO. Last season was an absolute outlier.

 

[KyFaninNC]

That 38-1 record with some absolute beat-downs of really good teams certainly shows that Cal didn't do what was in the interest of UK.

Some of you are insufferable right now. I know the way the season ended sucked but to act like this year was a failure completely boggles my mind. It was a fantastic year with one blemish at a bad time. That game didn't prove Cal did the wrong thing with this team or put the interests of UK on the back-burner.

Yes, some of you are!! Stop slurping at Cal's gonads and stop bashing posters who saw flaws in Cal's game coaching the last month of the season. If you can't or won't see it, fine, but stop bashing the ones that can see it.

 

[3rex]

I think many of you are giving these recruits way too much credit. They don't pay attention during the season to Cal, or listen to his every comment, such as saying the platoon is a one time deal.

They turn on the tv, and see us subbing 5 for 5, they hear the word platoon thrown around, and think to themselves, "I'm pretty sure I don't want to do that..." It leaves an impression & when an opposing coach comes in using it as a negative recruiting tool, it reinforces what they think.

They are not hanging on Cal's every word during their senior year in high school, believe it or not.

 

[Tampa_cat54_rivals112262]

Well...I think this may be proof that platooning did kill us in recruiting.

http://www.coachcal.com/34612/2015/05/we-may-never-platoon-again-but-players-will-always-come-first/

If you ask me if I’m ever going to platoon again, my answer is NO. Last season was an absolute outlier.

Yep.

That pretty much confirmed it in my mind.

This article wasn't for the fans, it was for recruits

 

[Panthur]

So the rotation that put our kids' names in the history books and higher up the draft projections killed recruiting. Not getting burned on pick 'n rolls all year and not three straight years of season-ending injuries. But maxing out at 22 minutes a game instead of 28...unless you earn 28 a game in which case you can still have 28 a game or 38 or whatever. That's what killed us. That makes sense.

(I'm playing devil's advocate btw, not complaining. Injuries gonna happen and I'll get burned on whatever you want to burn me with if it wins me 38 straight with that schedule. But come on folks, if you're gonna pick a conspiracy theory why pick such a weak one?)

 

[RoyKent]

Yep.

That pretty much confirmed it in my mind.

This article wasn't for the fans, it was for recruits

But, according to most on here, Matt Jones is in idiot for suggesting this....

 

[Tampa_cat54_rivals112262]

So the rotation that put our kids' names in the history books and higher up the draft projections killed recruiting. Not getting burned on pick 'n rolls all year and not three straight years of season-ending injuries. But maxing out at 22 minutes a game instead of 28...unless you earn 28 a game in which case you can still have 28 a game or 38 or whatever. That's what killed us. That makes sense.

(I'm playing devil's advocate btw, not complaining. Injuries gonna happen and I'll get burned on whatever you want to burn me with if it wins me 38 straight with that schedule. But come on folks, if you're gonna pick a conspiracy theory why pick such a weak one?)

I tend to agree with the thought that it hurt us a lot.

It's just hard to sell kids on it from the outside.

When you're on the team and part of the experience, it can be really fun and, in this teams case, make them a family.

But when you're on the outside looking in and don't experience it first hand, the idea of only playing 20MPG just isn't overly inciting.

And I think we ALL know that this is what opposing coaches were saying when they spoke with recruits.

 

[barryn2000]

Well...I think this may be proof that platooning did kill us in recruiting.

http://www.coachcal.com/34612/2015/05/we-may-never-platoon-again-but-players-will-always-come-first/

If you ask me if I’m ever going to platoon again, my answer is NO. Last season was an absolute outlier.

Like I said in this same thread....

Notice you left out the part about the fans...

Like I said before, if a kid isn't smart enough to figure out WHY we had to platoon at all and why this was likely an isolated event ....maybe it's best they went somewhere else.

 

[sefus12]

Yes, some of you are!! Stop slurping at Cal's gonads and stop bashing posters who saw flaws in Cal's game coaching the last month of the season. If you can't or won't see it, fine, but stop bashing the ones that can see it.

How exactly did I slurp at Cal's gonads? By sarcastically saying his 38-1 record showed he didn't do what was best for UK? Can you please show me where his putting players first cost us the Wisconsin game?

I can go ahead and answer for you... you can't prove anything. Sure, Cal probably shouldn't have milked the clock, but odds overwhelmingly say we either get fouled or make a bucket on one of the three consecutive shot-clock violations. And from reports out there Cal wanted to get Towns the ball on the block but it never happened. In the end we don't know what would have changed, but do know that Cal coached a team to a 38-1 record. No matter how you want to spin it, it takes damn good coaching to get a team to that record.

 

[balderthanu]

Most of our players' draft stock improved from the beginning to the end of the season and I don't know if any of them dropped.

Are you serious? Two twins' stock is lower today than this time last year or, especially, two years ago. Dakari Johnson's stock is lower today than this time last year or, especially, two years ago. Marcus Lee's stock is lower today than two years ago. Towns and Lyles are about where they were coming out of HS. I'll give you Booker, though he hasn't been drafted yet; same with WCS though, again, his performance in the national semi-final game may be a difficult image for NBA GM's to shake. So, that's two (maybe) with "improved" draft stock, four with clear drops in draft stock and one more who might've been drafted higher last year coming off of season-ending surgery than he will this year.

 

[Panthur]

I tend to agree with the thought that it hurt us a lot.

It's just hard to sell kids on it from the outside.

When you're on the team and part of the experience, it can be really fun and, in this teams case, make them a family.

But when you're on the outside looking in and don't experience it first hand, the idea of only playing 20MPG just isn't overly inciting.

And I think we ALL know that this is what opposing coaches were saying when they spoke with recruits.

Well I can definitely agree this far: that it was an extra arrow rival coaches had in their quiver this year. I just think it can't be too much of a factor because as a lot of folks have said, the LSUs, Mississippi States, and California's of the world got this year's kids away from us...but they also got them away from the Duke, KU, Mich types who didn't platoon. Who knows ultimately. I just really hope it is a collection of individual circumstances this year and not a new trend.

 

[barryn2000]

Yes, some of you are!! Stop slurping at Cal's gonads and stop bashing posters who saw flaws in Cal's game coaching the last month of the season. If you can't or won't see it, fine, but stop bashing the ones that can see it.

38-1 is 97.5%

If the worst is 0-39 and the best is 39-0 then we are arguing fractions. The line between great and suck is even smaller, with 56 sec's left, UK is down 1 point...easily winable. Not like that hadn't happened before, the prior year's NCAA, UK pulled off heroic wins and no one was freaking out.

and yet, somehow it's irrational and illogical for anyone to view the season in the big picture...we have to join in the emotional tantrum of 56 seconds (or 5 min if you prefer the 4 point lead).

As stated several times on this site...limiting a hot 3pt shooting team's possessions with a 4 point lead is not exactly insane. It might not be your choice but had Cal run for the final 5 min and lost, many would be arguing the opposite (eat clock).

There are dozens of things that could be pointed out that if they went the other way, we win...I think it's irrational for people to focus on just Cal and whine to the rest of us when we disagree.

Do I like that we lost to Wisc? No! Does it mean I need a blood sacrifice to feel whole again? No. I was happy 38 times in a row and feeling pretty good 39-7/8th...not going to give UK or Cal a failing grade over that 1/8th.

How would you feel if your boss or wife or parents blasted you for a measly 97.5% success rate? I doubt you do anything moderately challenging in your life with a 97.5% success rate.

 

[KyFaninNC]

38-1 is 97.5%

If the worst is 0-39 and the best is 39-0 then we are arguing fractions. The line between great and suck is even smaller, with 56 sec's left, UK is down 1 point...easily winable. Not like that hadn't happened before, the prior year's NCAA, UK pulled off heroic wins and no one was freaking out.

and yet, somehow it's irrational and illogical for anyone to view the season in the big picture...we have to join in the emotional tantrum of 56 seconds (or 5 min if you prefer the 4 point lead).

As stated several times on this site...limiting a hot 3pt shooting team's possessions with a 4 point lead is not exactly insane. It might not be your choice but had Cal run for the final 5 min and lost, many would be arguing the opposite (eat clock).

There are dozens of things that could be pointed out that if they went the other way, we win...I think it's irrational for people to focus on just Cal and whine to the rest of us when we disagree.

Do I like that we lost to Wisc? No! Does it mean I need a blood sacrifice to feel whole again? No. I was happy 38 times in a row and feeling pretty good 39-7/8th...not going to give UK or Cal a failing grade over that 1/8th.

How would you feel if your boss or wife or parents blasted you for a measly 97.5% success rate? I doubt you do anything moderately challenging in your life with a 97.5% success rate.

How about never changing your defense to counter the pick and roll that ND and Wisky killed us at? How about lack of defensive rebounding? 38-1 was a damn good year, but to NOT be allowed to say that Cal is not above reproach is insane. That is my point. Better defense might have prevented those three point shots. Wisky does NOT foul much, so taking the air out with 5 minutes to go HOPING for them to foul is insane. A 4 point lead with nearly 5 to go with a 35 second shot clock is not good strategy. All Wisky had to do was play solid defense, which they did, forced us into 3 straight shot clock violations.

Again, Cal will learn from this, hopefully. Pitino was questioned for years for not putting someone guarding Grant Hill in 92, and yet that was fine with certain posters here, to bash Pitino, but heaven forbid anyone question Calipari.

I also know that had Cal run offense and we still lost, some would bash him for that. I would not, but some would. Cal had a decision to make, and he chose wrong this time. there is not another coach in America that I would rather have right now. But Cal is not perfect and can take some criticism.

 

[3rex]

3 point shooting team or not, "limiting possessions" shouldn't even be a thought in a 4 point game with 5 minutes to play. Way too small a lead & way to much time to think that way.
Not saying Cal was, but you did, so that's my thought there.

 

[barryn2000]

3 point shooting team or not, "limiting possessions" shouldn't even be a thought in a 4 point game with 5 minutes to play. Way too small a lead & way to much time to think that way.
Not saying Cal was, but you did, so that's my thought there.

As I said...it's been suggested by others here. I have no idea what Cal was thinking or if it was even Cal's plan vs poor execution of a plan.

My point is that preferring the "blame Cal" perspective exclusively and ignoring all other factors is irrational. There were several things that contributed to the last 5 minutes.

 

[3 fan_rivals214492]

So much for those "not buying" the platoon issue....Cal admits it hurt recruiting

 

[johnnyrockets]

So much for those "not buying" the platoon issue....Cal admits it hurt recruiting

Cal would never tell us what we want to hear, would he?

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

How about never changing your defense to counter the pick and roll that ND and Wisky killed us at? How about lack of defensive rebounding? 38-1 was a damn good year, but to NOT be allowed to say that Cal is not above reproach is insane. That is my point. Better defense might have prevented those three point shots. Wisky does NOT foul much, so taking the air out with 5 minutes to go HOPING for them to foul is insane. A 4 point lead with nearly 5 to go with a 35 second shot clock is not good strategy. All Wisky had to do was play solid defense, which they did, forced us into 3 straight shot clock violations.

Again, Cal will learn from this, hopefully. Pitino was questioned for years for not putting someone guarding Grant Hill in 92, and yet that was fine with certain posters here, to bash Pitino, but heaven forbid anyone question Calipari.

I also know that had Cal run offense and we still lost, some would bash him for that. I would not, but some would. Cal had a decision to make, and he chose wrong this time. there is not another coach in America that I would rather have right now. But Cal is not perfect and can take some criticism.

I didn't get to watch all of the Wisconsin game because I had to work, but I assume we came out hard on screens, like we did against ND, which made it easier for them to get to the basket? If that is the case, I don't understand what you feel like we could have changed, because that's how you have to guard a team that has four or five guys out there at a time that can nail threes. If a team like that is playing well, they are going to score some points. I don't know what you want Cal to do in a game where we aren't rebounding well. There isn't really an adjustment that can be made outside of yelling at them, which I am sure he did plenty of. I agree with the stalling. I have never liked that.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

So much for those "not buying" the platoon issue....Cal admits it hurt recruiting

I think most people just think it is simplifying it too much by putting all of the blame on that.

 

[KyFaninNC]

I don't understand what you feel like we could have changed, because that's how you have to guard a team that has four or five guys out there at a time that can nail threes. If a team like that is playing well, they are going to score some points.

It's called a zone, either 2-1-2, or a 2-3, or maybe a 4 man zone with a chaser, or combination of all, mix it up, throw the other team off balance.

 

[kybassfan]

Box and one is a junk defense. Always has been a Dale Brown-ish type approach. Might as well have started playing dice.

Zones, particularly the 2 - 3 will get you killed against a 3 pt shooting team. I think a zone would have been madness against a disciplined and good shooting team like Wisconsin. Ever heard the term "Zone buster"? They had many.

In the final four of the NCAA tournament, you don't pull something new out of your arse that you've not used all year and likely haven't practiced. That's bush league basketball. You dance with what brought you and what treated you right for the prior 38 games: Man to man.

If Cal had done something really weird like what you suggest and lost, it would be MUCH worse than it is now.

 

[TankedCat]

Zimmerman's mom , fwiw, says she heard more about the boys not wanting to follow a 38-0 team at Kentucky than being worried about a platoon system.

 

[KyFaninNC]

Box and one is a junk defense. Always has been a Dale Brown-ish type approach. Might as well have started playing dice.

Zones, particularly the 2 - 3 will get you killed against a 3 pt shooting team. I think a zone would have been madness against a disciplined and good shooting team like Wisconsin. Ever heard the term "Zone buster"? They had many.

In the final four of the NCAA tournament, you don't pull something new out of your arse that you've not used all year and likely haven't practiced. That's bush league basketball. You dance with what brought you and what treated you right for the prior 38 games: Man to man.

If Cal had done something really weird like what you suggest and lost, it would be MUCH worse than it is now.

Well, some things never change. Still can't resist your bashing, I see. BTW, experts play zone to reduce three point shooting. fact is Booker or Harrisons were constantly having to guard Decker or Kaminsky and they killed us. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cal never adapted to the pick and roll the whole year. Yes we were 38-1 but that don't excuse bad coaching decisions.

 

[Poetax]

I don't buy at this time of Brown's recruitment that any negative about platooning was even on his mind. Now the part about the circus with everything that goes on with UK basketball and him wanting to be a big fish in a small pond does make sense.

 

[kybassfan]

Well, some things never change. Still can't resist your bashing, I see. BTW, experts play zone to reduce three point shooting. fact is Booker or Harrisons were constantly having to guard Decker or Kaminsky and they killed us. Definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over and expecting different results. Cal never adapted to the pick and roll the whole year. Yes we were 38-1 but that don't excuse bad coaching decisions.

Bashing? I was discussing the folly of using a zone in the last five minutes of that game. Trust me, if I decide to bash you, you'll know it.

So you would have rather given up three points each time down the floor rather than 2. And that's not insane because it's different? Now you are a Kentucky boy, tell me you haven't been studying logic at UNC. Wisconsin would have trashed us in a zone.

No, I think insanity would have been to abandon a strategy that had worked all through the year in favor of something that was totally unproven just because the proven strategy didn't work a few times. It's one thing to bash the coach whilst slurping beer watching replays and pretending you had the obvious answer all along. It's quite another to watch it happen with a gym full of screaming fans and millions of viewers. It's quite different to decide to do something totally stupid under the circumstances when you have a strategy that's worked all year long.

You run screens to create space. You create space, you create a shot. If you are playing a team that has a 7' cat quick defender, you need all the space you can get. Wisconsin knew that. They knew that if they could knock down some shots, they had a chance. I frankly think they were hoping we would go to a zone out of desperation. Desperation often forces teams into stupid decisions.

If you really want to understand basketball better, spend your time trying to understand why a very highly respected coach does the things they do. It's much more productive than spewing basketball platitudes you learned in elementary school from the safety of a lazy boy using wisdom gained through beer and hindsight.

Now, I think, you can resume whining about bashing.

 

[3rex]

So a team that decides to go zone is making a decision to give up "3 points each time down the floor rather than 2?"

Hmmmm....interesting.

 

[hotelblue]

that cal talks about not doing this or that moving forward makes me happy. doesn't sound like a guy expecting to go anywhere. we will have a great year and be back again in 16 and 17 i feel.

i think the media will rank us in the top 5 no matter what, even though with key freshman we may stumble a couple times early. for instance duke and unc early in the year could be tough. so we may be #5 to start, but we may just be a top twenty team in all honesty. by the end of the year we could be ranked 15 or 20 but imho could be one of the best teams in the country.

no matter your concerns offensively, if skal at some point starts to demand a double team things are actually going to open up for this team. with a lee or poythress ready for an instant dunk on the other block, it could be just what the doctor ordered.

 

[Rocketman101]

;Lee will stay in foul trouble, Alex P has the same problem.

 

[Macys Socks]

If you don't want attention and don't like the spotlight, why in the hell are you planning to become a professional basketball player in the NBA?

That would be my question to some of these kids.

To make millions of bucks.

 

[TankedCat]

I'm really looking forward to next year. I do feel more connected to Lee, Poythress and Willis

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

It's called a zone, either 2-1-2, or a 2-3, or maybe a 4 man zone with a chaser, or combination of all, mix it up, throw the other team off balance.

They have five guys who can knock down threes and we got killed on the boards. How does a zone help that? Also, I like how you think if we wanted to we could play multiple styles of zone well enough to stop a team as good as Wisconsin. With roster turnover we have to pick something and get as good as you can at it. With their shooting and passing, they would have killed us if we pulled out some bs zone out of nowhere.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

Yes, some of you are!! Stop slurping at Cal's gonads and stop bashing posters who saw flaws in Cal's game coaching the last month of the season. If you can't or won't see it, fine, but stop bashing the ones that can see it.

I have no problem with criticizing him for things that deserve criticism, but the things you keep bringing up are just revealing your own ignorance.

 

[Hoskins91_rivals]

Cal did what he HAD to do to appease all the players, I can't fault him for that. But, he did NOT do a good job of utilizing the talent he had.

I love how people say this and fail to mention anything specifically.

 

[wildcatdonf]

Our gameplan for Wisconsin was solid. Checks this out: Points In The Paint: UK: 34 - Wisconsin 20. They could not stop KAT. We could not get him the ball during those last 3-4 minutes.

Going to a zone would have been disastrous IMO.

I think we just got beat.

 

[kybassfan]

Our gameplan for Wisconsin was solid. Checks this out: Points In The Paint: UK: 34 - Wisconsin 20. They could not stop KAT. We could not get him the ball during those last 3-4 minutes.

Going to a zone would have been disastrous IMO.

I think we just got beat.

Don, Do you ever get tired of making sense?

Yes, you are absolutely right. In fact, the stats for both teams were pretty solid. We had a stretch where we went in a hole. Wasn't the first time we'd done that all season. It was the first time against a team like Wisconsin. Before we could climb out, Wisconsin beat our ***.

I wonder if they found any pieces of that 7 point halftime lead we blew against Georgetown while they were down in that hole. Ironically, that was another game where we could not get the ball inside to a pair of twin towers.

 

[KyFaninNC]

I love how people say this and fail to mention anything specifically.

Well lets see here, Cal had 9 burger boys on this team,and pissed away a championship. That's one way. Call me ignorant all you want. I have most likely forgot more about basketball than you will ever know.