National Debt

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
I think that's a simpleton take on complex problem. Always room for some improvement, but not everyone is equal in a crowd of 330M. A modern nation state has to accommodate some kind of safety net. You can think you have enough guns and bullets, but when 20 or 30 million come for the haves because they are hungry, sick of dying for lack of health care, and tired of having to slave for the haves, then you'll think it was better to pay more taxes and be more compassionate. See the Arab Spring, see most empires from beginning of time. 1950 USA isn't the same as 2025.


More taxes than 40-50%?

We had RECORD revenues and we are still running a deficit.

We have a massive spending problem. No other way to putt it.

The taxed are saying no more. You can’t have a leech society that just wants more.


At what rate will the have nots be happy? 80%?

At some point you just have to say NO
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
Hordes of people in the neighborhood looking for such work will drive that compensation way down.

You guys don't understand that all your silly ideas have been considered for decades.

You win the race to the bottom.

I have to repeat. "You guys don't understand that all your silly ideas have been considered for decades."

People don't want negative economic growth. They want higher economic growth!
Your silly idea of socialism never works either. Ever.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Allornothing

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
More taxes than 40-50%?

We had RECORD revenues and we are still running a deficit.

We have a massive spending problem. No other way to out it.

The taxed are saying no more. You can’t have a leech society that just wants more.
I am not pushing for tax increases. At what point is the increased crime and homelessness too much for you?
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
I am not pushing for tax increases. At what point is the increased crime and homelessness too much for you?
We don’t have increased crime and homelessness in my red state. In fact look at crime since Trump took over. It’s sinking like a rock. And we didn’t even have to raise taxes. So I don’t think those are correlated like you think.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
Millions of private sector jobs start with government contracts. Multipliers then create more jobs.
The government must spend less or we will go bankrupt. This is a simple fact.

We either cut willingly or it will be forced upon us.

Those are the two options. We are not on a sustainable path.
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
The government must spend less or we will go bankrupt. This is a simple fact.

We either cut willingly or it will be forced upon us.

Those are the two options. We are not on a sustainable path.
Under Trump right now, we are headed toward about the same deficit as last year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: yoshi121374

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
Under Trump right now, we are headed toward about the same deficit as last year.
Ok.

Government spending must be reduced or we will go bankrupt. We are on an unsustainable path.

We accept cuts willingly now, or we will accept cuts forcefully later.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
Ok.

Government spending must be reduced or we will go bankrupt. We are on an unsustainable path.

We accept cuts willingly now, or we will accept cuts forcefully later.
We have never come close balancing the budget since about 2000. We never come close to cutting spending to what you guys want. But for all your talk about lazy people, unemployment has stayed about 4% since the end of the pandemic. I believe we should try to get unemployment down to 2.5% and I believe it can be done.

This data from the BLS QCEW program shows that employment is up from DEC 2020 (141 million) to DEC 2023 (155 million).


Download:
YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecAnnual
2014133046752133561249134539673135941952137302013137774709135727247136768284137762600138576497139095859139266474136613609
2015136126250136654780137387791138789699140138197140616268138833723139549334140495791141469350141862942141976263139491699
2016138771439139409298140128911141663752142452460142779369141176872141880006143005034143443466143932095143798095141870066
2017140743089141509780142293796143331669144483133145217072143032406143838052144543061145403955145980535145941717143859855
2018142889218143825578144531918145442314146663970147422923145351404146310040146882505147761602148370379148129195146131754
2019145328097145941645146553073147574087148673869149191158147253522148250867148701484149527674150260321150005303148105092
2020147231429147811747147065115127242130130712810135045869135086021137112322138722896140824498141390186141000256139103773
2021138426603139385792140589959142090495143331102144185813143794527144497781145071052147362623148217180148407894143780068
2022145546514147135587147775977149292669150218335150675725149870344150736983151524979152242784152762683152525285150025655
2023150234140151045488151569737152445551153581007154459630152361567153202412154059660154639118155078016155014465153140899
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
We have never come close balancing the budget since about 2000. We never come close to cutting spending to what you guys want. But for all your talk about lazy people, unemployment has stayed about 4% since the end of the pandemic. I believe we should try to get unemployment down to 2.5% and I believe it can be done.

This data from the BLS QCEW program shows that employment is up from DEC 2020 (141 million) to DEC 2023 (155 million).


Download:



YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecAnnual
2014133046752133561249134539673135941952137302013137774709135727247136768284137762600138576497139095859139266474136613609
2015136126250136654780137387791138789699140138197140616268138833723139549334140495791141469350141862942141976263139491699
2016138771439139409298140128911141663752142452460142779369141176872141880006143005034143443466143932095143798095141870066
2017140743089141509780142293796143331669144483133145217072143032406143838052144543061145403955145980535145941717143859855
2018142889218143825578144531918145442314146663970147422923145351404146310040146882505147761602148370379148129195146131754
2019145328097145941645146553073147574087148673869149191158147253522148250867148701484149527674150260321150005303148105092
2020147231429147811747147065115127242130130712810135045869135086021137112322138722896140824498141390186141000256139103773
2021138426603139385792140589959142090495143331102144185813143794527144497781145071052147362623148217180148407894143780068
2022145546514147135587147775977149292669150218335150675725149870344150736983151524979152242784152762683152525285150025655
2023150234140151045488151569737152445551153581007154459630152361567153202412154059660154639118155078016155014465153140899


We are on an unsustainable path.

We will accept cuts willfully or forcefully.

I think willfully will be much better for our country.

But it will happen one way or another. We are simply on an unsustainable path.
 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
We are on an unsustainable path.

We will accept cuts willfully or forcefully.

I think willfully will be much better for our country.

But it will happen one way or another. We are simply on an unsustainable path.
We have to learn to manage deficits. Not eliminate them. Despite federal debt of $36 trillion, how can you explain 4.2% unemployment?
 

scotchtiger

Heisman
Dec 15, 2005
134,583
22,216
113
We have never come close balancing the budget since about 2000. We never come close to cutting spending to what you guys want. But for all your talk about lazy people, unemployment has stayed about 4% since the end of the pandemic. I believe we should try to get unemployment down to 2.5% and I believe it can be done.

This data from the BLS QCEW program shows that employment is up from DEC 2020 (141 million) to DEC 2023 (155 million).


Download:
YearJanFebMarAprMayJunJulAugSepOctNovDecAnnual
2014133046752133561249134539673135941952137302013137774709135727247136768284137762600138576497139095859139266474136613609
2015136126250136654780137387791138789699140138197140616268138833723139549334140495791141469350141862942141976263139491699
2016138771439139409298140128911141663752142452460142779369141176872141880006143005034143443466143932095143798095141870066
2017140743089141509780142293796143331669144483133145217072143032406143838052144543061145403955145980535145941717143859855
2018142889218143825578144531918145442314146663970147422923145351404146310040146882505147761602148370379148129195146131754
2019145328097145941645146553073147574087148673869149191158147253522148250867148701484149527674150260321150005303148105092
2020147231429147811747147065115127242130130712810135045869135086021137112322138722896140824498141390186141000256139103773
2021138426603139385792140589959142090495143331102144185813143794527144497781145071052147362623148217180148407894143780068
2022145546514147135587147775977149292669150218335150675725149870344150736983151524979152242784152762683152525285150025655
2023150234140151045488151569737152445551153581007154459630152361567153202412154059660154639118155078016155014465153140899

Unemployment doesn’t count the losers getting government assistance and not looking for a job. Labor force participation is a better metric, and it is historically low relative to the last 40+ years.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
We have to learn to manage deficits. Not eliminate them. Despite federal debt of $36 trillion, how can you explain 4.2% unemployment?
We aren’t managing debt.

The debt gives us high Intrest rates.

High Intrest rates lead to higher unemployment.
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
We aren’t managing debt.

The debt gives us high Intrest rates.

High Intrest rates lead to higher unemployment.
If you vote in folks who will cut spending, unemployment will rise to levels where they will soon be voted out of office. Your move.
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
Unemployment doesn’t count the losers getting government assistance and not looking for a job. Labor force participation is a better metric, and it is historically low relative to the last 40+ years.
Many people out of work ARE looking for jobs. Don't deny your party always talks about job creation. Would any Republican vote down on a major defense contract in their district?
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
If you vote in folks who will cut spending, unemployment will rise to levels where they will soon be voted out of office. Your move.
I disagree with your premise.

You can cut spending without increasing unemployment. See Argentina
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
If you vote in folks who will cut spending, unemployment will rise to levels where they will soon be voted out of office. Your move.
I’d you vote people who tax too much you will soon be voted out of office. See 2024.

It’s a two way street
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
I’d you vote people who tax too much you will soon be voted out of office. See 2024.

It’s a two way street
That's why the correct policy is learning to live with the debt. While keeping debt from rising faster than GDP.
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
I’d you vote people who tax too much you will soon be voted out of office. See 2024.

It’s a two way street
I didn't agree with his tax proposals. But the election was decided by millions more young and lower income voters who would have NOT had their taxes raised.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
Debt to GDP highest level in over 30 years. @Catch50


We are simply spending too much money and are on an unsustainable path. Cuts come willfully or forcefully.

 
  • Like
Reactions: TigerGrowls

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
Debt to GDP highest level in over 30 years. @Catch50


We are simply spending too much money and are on an unsustainable path. Cuts come willfully or forcefully.


Still waiting for spending cuts. Don't give us no **** about some % cuts. Find $1.8 trillion of one year's spending.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
23,598
21,987
113
Still waiting for spending cuts. Don't give us no **** about some % cuts. Find $1.8 trillion of one year's spending.


Why don’t you pick them? I don’t care where they come from.

I’m just here to tell you the truth. That they will come willfully or forcefully.

Forcefully will be much more painful in my opinion.
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
Unemployment doesn’t count the losers getting government assistance and not looking for a job. Labor force participation is a better metric, and it is historically low relative to the last 40+ years.
Your solution to increase the LFP?
 

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
Why don’t you pick them? I don’t care where they come from.

I’m just here to tell you the truth. That they will come willfully or forcefully.

Forcefully will be much more painful in my opinion.
I won't pick them because I know we can't balance the budget. So much for Republicans being fiscally responsible since so many people like you don't know the numbers or where to find them.
 
Last edited by a moderator:

catch54

Senior
Feb 5, 2003
30,254
608
113
Should be a high school level class. And should be on the citizenship test for foreigners.

This is so immoral for our kids.


Every American should know that Republicans create the economic distress that leads to higher deficits.
 

DrTigerGoob

Senior
Aug 7, 2018
631
850
93
We are on a runaway freight train headed for a cliff. Biden and congress knows this and they are still running this charade. I think they are trying to implode the nation on purpose at this point and before anyone wants to make this the political blame game I do blame both parties and blame Trump to an extent but his blame is miniscule in comparison to the uniparty occupiers that have been running us into the ground from DC for decades.

When the interest payment on the debt which is what we pay the fed becomes the single largest figure in the budget then we are hosed and this come a lot sooner than most think. Think about it...the interest payment on the debt more than military spending.

They will either hyperinflate and print trillions and pay it off or just default. Its not going to be pretty at all. We will be in the beans and bullets economy when that occurs.


EJ Antoni

Subscribe
@RealEJAntoni
Jun 12 • 4 tweets • 2 min read Twitter logo Read on Twitter
Bookmark Save as PDF
Latest US Treasury data show we're on unsustainable path: interest on the debt was a whopping $61 billion in May, more than was spent on veterans benefits and services, education, and transportation COMBINED; interest costs were a quarter of the deficit last month: Image
Also note that the Treasury's graphic is deceptive, w/ no note that it isn't to scale - "deficit" of $240B is numerically larger than "social insurance & retirement" receipts of $140B, but "deficit" is half the size in the graphic: Image
The deficit is substantially worse than last fiscal year, with 8 months' worth of deficits almost equal to previous 12 months' deficits; fiscal year to date deficit is 2.7 times the same period from previous fiscal year: Image
Interest on the debt this fiscal year has risen 25% from last fiscal year, the result of issuing new debt but also rolling over old debt at much higher interest rates: Image

This isn’t going to age well as your fat daddy Trump adds trillions to the national debt.
 
  • Like
Reactions: catch54