You trying to get in on this pal?
Confederate War Monuments
- Thread starter treetiger
- Start date
I know you can handle yours, but if the numbers get too unbalanced let me know. I can bring the goons.
No wonder our education system is broken and falling further behind by the day. Anything that has a guy like this involved can't be worth two cents.
And another racist Trump supporter reveals themselves
Very interesting thread.
As a younger man, like most kids who grew up in the South in a family that had been here for many generations, I had an interest in the Civil War and the South's heroes from that war.
I agree that it was clearly a blessing that the South lost. I also agree that the scale and scope of the slaughter deserves to be remembered in some form or fashion. The battlefields should always remain off-limits because what happened at Gettysburg, Vicksburg, Atlanta, Appomattox, etc. had as much or more to do with this country's history as any since then.
The monuments are a little tougher call. The argument about placing monuments to military figures from Mexico, Great Britain, etc. on U.S. soil was a compelling one by whoever said that above.
That said, many of them are now integral parts of the cities and towns where they sit. To tear down the monuments to the dead themselves seems a little harsh and unlikely to produce any meaningful or tangible benefits. Most men who died on both sides had only a sparse understanding of the issues that led to the War. To take down monuments to men who died in 1861-1865 fighting for what was there then understanding of why they were fighting because that does not check all your boxes in 2017 seems a little myopic.
Now clearly, monuments to Civil War Era officers who went on to become part of the South's resistance to reunification and integration after the War is a little lighter lift from an logical perspective for me at least.
At the end of the day, the War was the most important Post-Revolutionary event in American History until WW2. And to be honest, we probably don't have the industrial might to win WW2 if not for the Civil War and the fact the South was modernized to some degree during WW1 and the New Deal.
Very heavy topic for a CFB Message Board, but a good one.
As a younger man, like most kids who grew up in the South in a family that had been here for many generations, I had an interest in the Civil War and the South's heroes from that war.
I agree that it was clearly a blessing that the South lost. I also agree that the scale and scope of the slaughter deserves to be remembered in some form or fashion. The battlefields should always remain off-limits because what happened at Gettysburg, Vicksburg, Atlanta, Appomattox, etc. had as much or more to do with this country's history as any since then.
The monuments are a little tougher call. The argument about placing monuments to military figures from Mexico, Great Britain, etc. on U.S. soil was a compelling one by whoever said that above.
That said, many of them are now integral parts of the cities and towns where they sit. To tear down the monuments to the dead themselves seems a little harsh and unlikely to produce any meaningful or tangible benefits. Most men who died on both sides had only a sparse understanding of the issues that led to the War. To take down monuments to men who died in 1861-1865 fighting for what was there then understanding of why they were fighting because that does not check all your boxes in 2017 seems a little myopic.
Now clearly, monuments to Civil War Era officers who went on to become part of the South's resistance to reunification and integration after the War is a little lighter lift from an logical perspective for me at least.
At the end of the day, the War was the most important Post-Revolutionary event in American History until WW2. And to be honest, we probably don't have the industrial might to win WW2 if not for the Civil War and the fact the South was modernized to some degree during WW1 and the New Deal.
Very heavy topic for a CFB Message Board, but a good one.
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You might wanna cool your jets buddy if you know what's good for you. Either way I've reported you for racism. Your move chief
Well said and very much how I feel. I can understand people being upset, but it's just not as simple as "they lost" and that portion of history needs to be eradicated. They were all Americans during that conflict and thankfully became one nation again. Southern Americans have long had ancestors that fought for a different cause and regardless of whether it's right or wrong, there will be an attachment to their service and bloodshed. A large majority southerners during that time were too dirt poor to own slaves and were just pawns of the wealthy that wanted to preserve their way of life. Probably not too much has changed over time in that regard.
I don't know the answer, probably a museum is best. Regardless, this thread is a great example of how divided many are on this topic.
Don't worry boss man I can help put it out for good. I would ask for a time and place, but predictably as a Trump supporter you would puss out anyways
A bar? No can do tomorrow either. Wednesday at 1:00 at the Wells Fargo parking lot on Tiger Blvd.
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Uh Oh. One dude already tried this with @Steven15 and it didn't work out.
Deal. See you at 1 on Wednesday friend. You just made the biggest mistake of your pathetic life.
I'm glad TI will finally be getting aerial footage of some loser's motionless body laying on asphalt. @CMTiger15 Wednesday at 1 work?
Kinda hard for slavery to be a factor at all, when the NORTHERN states passes, ny supermajority, a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing slavery FOREVER!!!
Google Corwin Amendment.
And, of course, the US government ITSELF owned slaves DURING THE WAR.
And then there's that pesky litlr Joint Resolution on Wsr, unanimously passed by the northern Congress after the war started, which stated clearly that slavery HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH THE WAR.
Well, let's not let the facts of history get in the way, right?
My father is 90 years old. He may have 2 or 3 years left. He's the smartest man I have ever known, not to have a college education. He was at Parris Island the day after he graduated HS.
He has told me all his life that he won't live to see it, but this country will fight another 'Civil War' between the haves and the have nots.
This country won't exist in its current form in 2036. No way it can keep going down the path it's headed.
The men and women who could really run this country would not dare subject their families to the political stupidity.
When you have Trump vs Hillary for your choice of President and Colin Powell and Condi Rice no where to be found then you are just biding your time til it all implodes.
He has told me all his life that he won't live to see it, but this country will fight another 'Civil War' between the haves and the have nots.
This country won't exist in its current form in 2036. No way it can keep going down the path it's headed.
The men and women who could really run this country would not dare subject their families to the political stupidity.
When you have Trump vs Hillary for your choice of President and Colin Powell and Condi Rice no where to be found then you are just biding your time til it all implodes.
I would counter by saying that the principal of self-determination, which was established by the founding fathers, was on the side of the South, and they should be honored for defending the very principals of the Declaration of Independence. And, we should morn the fact that this principal, which our founders fought for in 1776, was lost when the South lost the war.
I find it rather funny that we LOVE the idea of secession of 13 British colonies from Britain,
We LOVE the idea of secession of Soviet bloc states of Eastern Europe from Communism,
We LOVE the idea of secession of the states of the Soviet Union from Communism,
Yet somehow we demonize the idea of secession of the states of the South from the voluntary Union which they were part of.
Does anyone else see massive inconsistency in this logic?
Hmmm..... well, I think this needs a LITTLE clarification.
First, Lincoln claimed the South never left the Union, because secession was illegal.
So how could the South fight reunification, if they never left.
In fact, one of the ironies of damnyankee logic was that, at the end of the war, when the Southern states were ready to send their representative back to DC, they WEREN'T ALLOWED to!
So now it's the SOUTH'S fault ??? What kind of screwed up logic is this?
After the war, even though it was the South who passed the 13th Amendment, ending slavery,the South was put under military occupation, those who supported the Confederacy (80% of the population) were denied the right to vote, and military occupiers stole from the local population and armed the freed slaves and encouraged them to revolt against whites.
And the SOUTH is supposed to be ashamed of something that was legal, which the north was willing to guarantee FOREVER?
Who has something to be ashamed of here?
I'm as glad as anyone that slavery is gone, but BOTH SIDES had slaves!!! The US government OWNED SLAVES DURING THE WAR!!! So did Ulysses S. Grant!
The facts of history that get conveniently left out.... the mind boggles.
Secession wasn't legal in the US at the time, and it isn't legal now. The judiciary ruled on this many times after the civil war.
Of course we love and celebrate the victors in just wars, but we loathe and disdain the losers who fought against our country for immoral reasons. Should we celebrate Mexico and erect monuments to them all over our country because they lost to us in a war too?
At the time it had never been settled in court and there were mixed views on the subject. After the war the trial of Jefferson Davis was expected to settle the issue, which is why it was delayed for 2 years and then avoided entirely with a mass pardon.
This my friend is 100% correct. Wars & Armies are mainly served by the under represented to fill the desires of the privileged!!