What’s going on with Chloe Clardy?

[3ptthreat]

Anyone know what is going on with Chloe Clardy? Very curious is if she is injured and recovering? Or if she is somehow in the dog house with Coach?

I for sure would have thought we would have seen more of her if she was healthy and good to go. Not saying it would have made a difference in the outcome of the games but I would have thought we would have at least seen coach testing line ups and trying different things. But only getting 4 minutes against OK when things had gotten away from us and nothing since then is a head scratcher. Going into the season I was in the group that would have thought she would have gotten a lot of minutes.

Is it something else or has Coach decided she’s not a fit for her system??

 

[6string]

Since she is in a Carolina uniform my guess is she is injured, per usual. That seems to be the case most of the time for us.

 

[Heelyeah#23]

Anyone know what is going on with Chloe Clardy? Very curious is if she is injured and recovering? Or if she is somehow in the dog house with Coach?

I for sure would have thought we would have seen more of her if she was healthy and good to go. Not saying it would have made a difference in the outcome of the games but I would have thought we would have at least seen coach testing line ups and trying different things. But only getting 4 minutes against OK when things had gotten away from us and nothing since then is a head scratcher. Going into the season I was in the group that would have thought she would have gotten a lot of minutes.

Is it something else or has Coach decided she’s not a fit for her system??

CB will give most of mins to under producing Kelly all season Bank it.

 

[DreDre81]

Maybe Gabby just beat her out for the minutes.

 

[3ptthreat]

Maybe Gabby just beat her out for the minutes.

Was wondering if it was something like that. If so, curious if it’s the work ethic? Speed? But definitely seems odd if that’s the case to go from a double digit scorer in the ACC to no minutes behind RK. Would think at some point you’d let her show what she could do especially when the others weren’t able to do much.

 

[3397char]

Since she is in a Carolina uniform my guess is she is injured, per usual. That seems to be the case most of the time for us.

She sat out the Davidson Exhibition due to injury. Banghart said she could have played if it was a real game, but they took the opportunity to let her heal. She did play the MD exhibition game, but CB confirmed afterwards she was on minutes restriction. She played 6 min, so apparently that restriction was pretty severe.

It is also worth noting that those 6 min did not go great. She subbed in Q1 when it was 13-13, Subbed out 5 min later and it was 16-22, (she assisted on the made 3pt shot by Queiroz), The Clardy/Zubich combo struggled with the ball pressure. Her 2nd stint was for 1 min in Q4 where she fouled the shooter twice. the margin was not harmed in that stint.

At MD it was 4 min. at UofSC she DNP. I think it is safe to draw the conclusion she is still not 100%. I also think that my eyes tell me that White may make it hard for her to find major minutes. White is the 3rd best guard on this team, right now.

 

[Jriv23]

She sat out the Davidson Exhibition due to injury. Banghart said she could have played if it was a real game, but they took the opportunity to let her heal. She did play the MD exhibition game, but CB confirmed afterwards she was on minutes restriction. She played 6 min, so apparently that restriction was pretty severe.

It is also worth noting that those 6 min did not go great. She subbed in Q1 when it was 13-13, Subbed out 5 min later and it was 16-22, (she assisted on the made 3pt shot by Queiroz), The Clardy/Zubich combo struggled with the ball pressure. Her 2nd stint was for 1 min in Q4 where she fouled the shooter twice. the margin was not harmed in that stint.

At MD it was 4 min. at UofSC she DNP. I think it is safe to draw the conclusion she is still not 100%. I also think that my eyes tell me that White may make it hard for her to find major minutes. White is the 3rd best guard on this team, right now.

RK has not been playing up to par in both games. I think CB needs to play CC more in place of RK if RK continues to be a no show. She was one of the ones who played a ton of minutes against SC but had 0 to show.

 

[3397char]

RK has not been playing up to par in both games. I think CB needs to play CC more in place of RK if RK continues to be a no show. She was one of the ones who played a ton of minutes against SC but had 0 to show.

RK has played two games, and was directly matched up against two of the best guards in the country (NFOY Chavez and All-SEC Johnson) so I don't think it is fair yet to say what we will see this season.

In those games she averaged a 5:1 A:TO. That is elite, especially given what the rest of our team did. In the OK game she was 4-10 (2-6) shooting for 11 pts plus 3 steals. That is solid. She also got Chavez in foul trouble and Chavez underperformed, well below her scoring average last season while shooting 33%. I would argue the two of them played to a tie; which is a win for Kelly, given our expectations of the two. So I disagree with your assertion she did not play up to par in both games.

(White also had a solid game but fouled out in 17 min. Clardy did not play well in very limited minutes)

The UofSC game was certainly not great. But the same could be said for the rest of our team. She was either instructed to not try to create her own shot in a standard SG role or chose not to do so. either way, she did not contribute offensively because she was not open and did not score. She did have the best A:TO ratio on the team by far, but that is about it. On defense, she did contain Tessa Johnson a little bit, but Johnson was efficient, and really, UofSC found their offense plenty.

 

[4theHeels19]

RK has played two games, and was directly matched up against two of the best guards in the country (NFOY Chavez and All-SEC Johnson) so I don't think it is fair yet to say what we will see this season.

In those games she averaged a 5:1 A:TO. That is elite, especially given what the rest of our team did. In the OK game she was 4-10 (2-6) shooting for 11 pts plus 3 steals. That is solid. She also got Chavez in foul trouble and Chavez underperformed, well below her scoring average last season while shooting 33%. I would argue the two of them played to a tie; which is a win for Kelly, given our expectations of the two. So I disagree with your assertion she did not play up to par in both games.

(White also had a solid game but fouled out in 17 min. Clardy did not play well in very limited minutes)

The UofSC game was certainly not great. But the same could be said for the rest of our team. She was either instructed to not try to create her own shot in a standard SG role or chose not to do so. either way, she did not contribute offensively because she was not open and did not score. She did have the best A:TO ratio on the team by far, but that is about it. On defense, she did contain Tessa Johnson a little bit, but Johnson was efficient, and really, UofSC found their offense plenty.

I agree with J. Riv. Kelly has not put stress on either of our opponents offensively or defensively. White has. And Kelly has gotten a lot more minutes. You have to impact the game.

And you might want to look at their stats across 2 games side by side. White might not have the assists yet but she's impacted the game in a lot of ways (5 O boards vs SC, 2-3 from 3pt range compared to 2-8 from Kelly). Much more efficient offensively. And only played about half the minutes Kelly played. I guarantee she'd be a better creator with the ball in her hands if given the opportunity bc she can beat her defender off the bounce and get in the lane. Something Kelly has never excelled at for us. Kelly has only averaged 2 assits/game for her career.

The best game I can remember of Kelly's was when we beat Brook's Kentucky team with Georgia Amoore a couple years ago. She was phenomenal that game and big reason why we won. Amoore was a good match up for her bc of size/athleticism. Not the case with most top guards she'll face. I really hope she can get her confidence and form back, but her size, inabiltiy to rebound, shoot, and penetrate make her a non-factor out there right now. She's a matchup win for most top 25 teams.

White is our best option along side Harpring against most opponents. Her ceiling is sky high high and she needs the minutes in our system, with Kate to build her own confidence and chemistry. I hope Clardy can start getting into form bc I think she'll be strong for us as well, but White and Harpring are the present and future for us.

 

[4theHeels19]

Also, last season it hurt us that Banghart stuck with Kelly for so long. Aaarnisalo didn't really find her rythm until late in the season. Her and Grant needed that court time together and the whole team started playing better once those two took over the backcourt. I hope she doesn't make the same mistake this year.

 

[3397char]

I agree with J. Riv. Kelly has not put stress on either of our opponents offensively or defensively. White has. And Kelly has gotten a lot more minutes. You have to impact the game.

And you might want to look at their stats across 2 games side by side. White might not have the assists yet but she's impacted the game in a lot of ways (5 O boards vs SC, 2-3 from 3pt range compared to 2-8 from Kelly). Much more efficient offensively. And only played about half the minutes Kelly played. I guarantee she'd be a better creator with the ball in her hands if given the opportunity bc she can beat her defender off the bounce and get in the lane. Something Kelly has never excelled at for us. Kelly has only averaged 2 assits/game for her career.

The best game I can remember of Kelly's was when we beat Brook's Kentucky team with Georgia Amoore a couple years ago. She was phenomenal that game and big reason why we won. Amoore was a good match up for her bc of size/athleticism. Not the case with most top guards she'll face. I really hope she can get her confidence and form back, but her size, inabiltiy to rebound, shoot, and penetrate make her a non-factor out there right now. She's a matchup win for most top 25 teams.

White is our best option along side Harpring against most opponents. Her ceiling is sky high high and she needs the minutes in our system, with Kate to build her own confidence and chemistry. I hope Clardy can start getting into form bc I think she'll be strong for us as well, but White and Harpring are the present and future for us.

It is a fair argument but a couple of points:

1. I was reacting to a post that said "Kelly has not played up to par in both games." My main point was to show she played well in the OK game, especially considering her assignment in Chavez.
2. I disagree on a blanket statement that White puts more stress on opposing players than White. Unless you mean fouling them. She is averaging 1 foul for every 5 min played. While disruptive, that is not a sustainable way to earn more minutes. It speeds up the opponent to earning FTs, the most efficient shot in women's basketball. Kelly did a great job on Chavez.
3. If you are asking me who I want playing PG when Harpring is out, then yes, I agree that is White as of right now. But that is not the starting assignment up for grabs. Harpring will play the 1 when in, as the primary creator. So the question is who will play the 2. Yes there can be shot creation responsibility at the 2, but what we need most is a player who can take the top guard defensive assignment and make threes set up by other play. As of right now that is Kelly. White has shown hope of making threes after being basically forbidden to shoot at UVA, but I am going to need to see a larger sample set, as will opposing teams, before she presents as a scoring threat to spread out a defense.
4. Putting in two dribble penetrators with almost no 3pt threats to compliment them is a quick way to bog down an offense; the defenders will just pack the paint. We actually saw this in the first two games. We did not make open threes early and pretty soon we could not penetrate at all.
5. rebounding from the guard position is a definite plus and I do not want to undersell that. White clearly has that skill (Harpring even more.) But for a guard I place higher value in creating assists and especially avoiding turnovers. White is at a 1:1 ratio. The 2 turnovers is great, but I need more than 1 assist per game from a ball handler. Especially if you are shooting 31%. Right now Kelly is the only reliable player on the team in that regard.
6. Both of them are shooting well below and acceptable FG% to be efficient scorers (as is Harpring). Very small sample size as of right now, but White is 4 of 13 on 2pt attempts for 31%. That is not effective driving and finishing. But Kelly still has the shooting pedigree that tells me I want her taking good shots. For Kelly, admittedly we do not know if she has regained her soph form. For White, she has solid 2 point numbers at UVA, but 1 of 12 from 3 pt.

White reminds me of a healthy McPherson. Boundless energy and knows how to use her superior speed and athleticism. I like the tenacity. But she is also prone to getting out of control at times. She needs to clean that up. I do agree that also means she may have greater upside than Kelly. It also makes her an excellent substitute for Harpring at the 1, in terms of her ability to maintain team tempo.

all the above is an either/or, head-to-head comparison. It is not intended as criticism. I am very impressed with White; she has exceeded expectations.

 

[4theHeels19]

When White and Harpring are in together, White generally brings the ball up and runs point and I think that suits this team. White at 1 and Harpring at 2. The scoring guard has performed better at the 2 under Banghart's system since she got here. Let Harpring adjust to college ball and do what she does best without having to run the entire offense.

White averaged 2 assists/game for UVA in 15mins last year as a freshman. So I think we'll see double the assists/game from White over Kelly by the time the year is over with increased minutes. Reniya's never been a great facilitator, and we have 3 years of history (2 assists per game). And White is already out scoring Reniya with half her minutes, as a sophmore in a new system. She just has physical gifts that Reniya doesn't. White was the only one who looked like she could play with SC on Monday, so yes, agree to disagree about putting stress on opposing teams. She is a match up problem for others where Reniya is a match up layup for most top 25 teams.

I agree White has the McPherson energy and can be out of control, but I think Nivar is a better comparison. She'll improve with minutes in our system. And I think she'll be our top defender before the year is over. No way Reniya is putting up 16pts against the Minnesota Lynx.

Reniya is a great character piece for this team and obviously has a lot of basketball skill, but her best on court attribute now is composure handling pressure (which we can definitely use strategically this year). But she is a non-factor against top teams. Just look at her stats against Top 25 teams this year and last year. The sooner we get White and Harpring running this back court effectively, the sooner the rest of the team will come along.

 

[3397char]

Also, last season it hurt us that Banghart stuck with Kelly for so long. Aaarnisalo didn't really find her rythm until late in the season. Her and Grant needed that court time together and the whole team started playing better once those two took over the backcourt. I hope she doesn't make the same mistake this year.

The EA timeline in 2025-26:

• EA started 13 of the first 14 games, when Kelly was completely our or on minutes restriction
• Then EA started 1 of 9 games when Kelly was cleared to play, and for the first time we could see what Kelly could do. EA still averaged 18.2 MPG in this stretch.
• Then EA started the last 12 games when the return of Kelly experiment was over, she had to play 30+ MPG because Kelly was out for the season.

So I would argue that EA had a good amount of time to mesh with the team, both when Kelly was out early and even when Kelly started.

Also, we went 8-1 in the games where EA did not start. The one loss was to ND; arguably our worst loss last season (23 points), Aarnisalo played 20 min. Would 10 more EA minutes have affected the outcome?

We won the next two games after the Kelly experiment ended, losing at dook in game three by 4 points. EA was 4 of 16 in that dook game, arguably her only bad game to close the season. We then strung together 5 more wins before losing to Louisville in the ACCT.

So Is 10 games sticking with Kelly so long? What games did we lose before or after the Kelly experiment we should have won?

EA did indeed close the season on a massive hot streak. She shot 19 of 41 (14 - 21) for a whopping 67% from 3 over 12 games. (That includes the dook game we lost) So the correlation is certainly there, but I question the causation. As in, did trying out Kelly slow down Aarnisalo in a meaningful way?

I also question the hindsight bias on saying we should not try and play a pre-season 1st team All-ACC player once she was cleared for full run. It may seem obvious now, but all us fans were desperately waiting for her to be cleared at the time.

 

[3397char]

When White and Harpring are in together, White generally brings the ball up and runs point and I think that suits this team. White at 1 and Harpring at 2. The scoring guard has performed better at the 2 under Banghart's system since she got here. Let Harpring adjust to college ball and do what she does best without having to run the entire offense.

White averaged 2 assists/game for UVA in 15mins last year as a freshman. So I think we'll see double the assists/game from White over Kelly by the time the year is over with increased minutes. Reniya's never been a great facilitator, and we have 3 years of history (2 assists per game). And White is already out scoring Reniya with half her minutes, as a sophmore in a new system. She just has physical gifts that Reniya doesn't. White was the only one who looked like she could play with SC on Monday, so yes, agree to disagree about putting stress on opposing teams. She is a match up problem for others where Reniya is a match up layup for most top 25 teams.

I agree White has the McPherson energy and can be out of control, but I think Nivar is a better comparison. She'll improve with minutes in our system. And I think she'll be our top defender before the year is over. No way Reniya is putting up 16pts against the Minnesota Lynx.

Reniya is a great character piece for this team and obviously has a lot of basketball skill, but her best on court attribute now is composure handling pressure (which we can definitely use strategically this year). But she is a non-factor against top teams. Just look at her stats against Top 25 teams this year and last year. The sooner we get White and Harpring running this back court effectively, the sooner the rest of the team will come along.

Another fair argument.

I do not think there is any chance Harpring will be the secondary ball handler though, and shouldn't be. It may make more sense when White is in (given that I assume that Harpring is a much better set shooter.) But I do not think relegating Harpring to the 2 for the majority of game time is a good plan. It makes UNC a lesser team offensively. There is one huge caveat here: she needs to play like she did vs Maryland, not OK and UofSC.

Any player outscoring another while shooting 31% is not a good thing. It is inefficient basketball. Someone else should be taking those shots. There is ample time and room for improvement, which I expect we will see. But as of right not that is a strike against instead on a positive for.

I sincerely hope White can bring Nivar defensive ability, or even just lead this team. But that simply has not happened yet and pretty sure it did not happen at UVA last year, though I only saw them play maybe 4 games and was not focused on White. She averaged 0.5 steals and 1.9 DReb per game. UVA overall was a a mediocre defense.

She certainly has the athleticism to be a + defender. I fully agree that the upside is there. Just need to see it in action, and without fouling. Kelly has been a solid defender in her UNC career. Certainly not on the level of Nivar or Donarski before her. But a solid defensive contributor. "Reniya is a match up layup for most top 25 teams" is unwarranted hyperbole in my opinion.

 

[4theHeels19]

The EA timeline in 2025-26:

• EA started 13 of the first 14 games, when Kelly was completely our or on minutes restriction
• Then EA started 1 of 9 games when Kelly was cleared to play, and for the first time we could see what Kelly could do. EA still averaged 18.2 MPG in this stretch.
• Then EA started the last 12 games when the return of Kelly experiment was over, she had to play 30+ MPG because Kelly was out for the season.

So I would argue that EA had a good amount of time to mesh with the team, both when Kelly was out early and even when Kelly started.

Also, we went 8-1 in the games where EA did not start. The one loss was to ND; arguably our worst loss last season (23 points), Aarnisalo played 20 min. Would 10 more EA minutes have affected the outcome?

We won the next two games after the Kelly experiment ended, losing at dook in game three by 4 points. EA was 4 of 16 in that dook game, arguably her only bad game to close the season. We then strung together 5 more wins before losing to Louisville in the ACCT.

So Is 10 games sticking with Kelly so long? What games did we lose before or after the Kelly experiment we should have won?

EA did indeed close the season on a massive hot streak. She shot 19 of 41 (14 - 21) for a whopping 67% from 3 over 12 games. (That includes the dook game we lost) So the correlation is certainly there, but I question the causation. As in, did trying out Kelly slow down Aarnisalo in a meaningful way?

I also question the hindsight bias on saying we should not try and play a pre-season 1st team All-ACC player once she was cleared for full run. It may seem obvious now, but all us fans were desperately waiting for her to be cleared at the time.

Whoa a lot of info here that's not representative of the full picture. I could spend time correcting each, but I'll try to just give the cliff notes.

And I agree with you that RK absolutely earned and deserved starting PG role BUT not if she was hurt and not at full strength. EA was always a PG, not 2 guard, and having the 2 of them on the court at the same time (or worse, the two of them plus Grant - which Banghart tried many times) was not our best basketball. EA running the point and LG at 2 was our best basketball of the season, against more consistently strong competition. Hindsight is 20/20 like you said, but also why I said it's important that this comparison be made now so the same mistake isn't made 2 years in a row, not 23 games into the season. Especially with a younger/less experienced team that's trying to find their roles. It's not about being right just for the sake of being right, it's about not being so stubborn to repeat mistakes; and getting the most out of your team.

I think you missed some really key info. Let's be clear on facts.

• RK was starting PG for the first 22 out of 23 games of the 25-26 season,all but the Louisville game (11th game of the seaon).
  • First 2 games she started and played under 10mins (I'd question that decision a bit- really necessary to start her for NC Central and Elon if she's not full stregth?). After that she was at 20+ mins/game.
• RK was not even remotely productive 19/23 games of the season. She averaged 6pts, 2rbs, 2assists, 1 TO and 28% shoooting.
  • If you take away the first 2 games of the season where she didn't play AND her four meaningful productive games that did not happen until JANUARY, her stat still would be even worse.
• EA was much more productive than RK from the jump. The stat comparison, is not even close. Apx 11pts, 3.5assists, 2.5 TO's, and 40% shooting before she got benched.
  • "Then EA started 1 of 9 games when Kelly was cleared to play, and for the first time we could see what Kelly could do."
    • Yea Kelly didn't really do anything until that 4 game stretch in January. And Aarnisarlo's numbers plummeted. So if you take away those games from EA's season averages, her numbers would be much higher. And the continuity of the team's floor general(s) was all over the place.
    • EA flourished when she was given the keys after we sidelined RK and her numbers show it. Grant also had some of her best games.

Continuity matters, roles matter (esp backcourt roles in Banghart's system), and getting the most out of your talent matters. Kelly's numbers speak for themselves last year. Should she have been benched if she was hurt and couldnt' perform? Yes. Should EA have assumed starting PG role with LG at SG based on their early season numbers compared to RK's. YES. I understand and really don't fault coach for waiting to see if RK would come around even though the production spoke for itself.

And really last year is only relevant bc history could repeat itself this year. And that has consequences with personnel. We have 2 insanely talented, but inexperienced guards with way higher ceilings RK. They need all the minutes they can get not only to get themselves comfortable in Banghart's system, but also so the rest of our talent can flourish at the Wing and Post positions and we start building chemistry. RK can be a great bench player.

 

[Jriv23]

The EA timeline in 2025-26:

• EA started 13 of the first 14 games, when Kelly was completely our or on minutes restriction
• Then EA started 1 of 9 games when Kelly was cleared to play, and for the first time we could see what Kelly could do. EA still averaged 18.2 MPG in this stretch.
• Then EA started the last 12 games when the return of Kelly experiment was over, she had to play 30+ MPG because Kelly was out for the season.

So I would argue that EA had a good amount of time to mesh with the team, both when Kelly was out early and even when Kelly started.

Also, we went 8-1 in the games where EA did not start. The one loss was to ND; arguably our worst loss last season (23 points), Aarnisalo played 20 min. Would 10 more EA minutes have affected the outcome?

We won the next two games after the Kelly experiment ended, losing at dook in game three by 4 points. EA was 4 of 16 in that dook game, arguably her only bad game to close the season. We then strung together 5 more wins before losing to Louisville in the ACCT.

So Is 10 games sticking with Kelly so long? What games did we lose before or after the Kelly experiment we should have won?

EA did indeed close the season on a massive hot streak. She shot 19 of 41 (14 - 21) for a whopping 67% from 3 over 12 games. (That includes the dook game we lost) So the correlation is certainly there, but I question the causation. As in, did trying out Kelly slow down Aarnisalo in a meaningful way?

I also question the hindsight bias on saying we should not try and play a pre-season 1st team All-ACC player once she was cleared for full run. It may seem obvious now, but all us fans were desperately waiting for her to be cleared at the time.

I hate to say this but life is unfair at times. In college basketball the only thing that matters in today's society is wins and losses. Coach's jobs are constantly on the line. GM and schools no longer wait to the end of the season to fire a coach. With that being said, CB is going to have to make some tough decisions moving forward. I love RK to deaf, but right now, she is just wasting time and minutes for other players to play. She has not contributed at all and the clock is now ticking. She has been a non-factor last year and the start of this year. She is not looking to shoot. It seems to be like she is still trying to get her legs and body back into basketball shape. The question is how long can you wait? I do not have an answer.

 

[DreDre81]

Another fair argument.

I do not think there is any chance Harpring will be the secondary ball handler though, and shouldn't be. It may make more sense when White is in (given that I assume that Harpring is a much better set shooter.) But I do not think relegating Harpring to the 2 for the majority of game time is a good plan. It makes UNC a lesser team offensively. There is one huge caveat here: she needs to play like she did vs Maryland, not OK and UofSC.

Any player outscoring another while shooting 31% is not a good thing. It is inefficient basketball. Someone else should be taking those shots. There is ample time and room for improvement, which I expect we will see. But as of right not that is a strike against instead on a positive for.

I sincerely hope White can bring Nivar defensive ability, or even just lead this team. But that simply has not happened yet and pretty sure it did not happen at UVA last year, though I only saw them play maybe 4 games and was not focused on White. She averaged 0.5 steals and 1.9 DReb per game. UVA overall was a a mediocre defense.

She certainly has the athleticism to be a + defender. I fully agree that the upside is there. Just need to see it in action, and without fouling. Kelly has been a solid defender in her UNC career. Certainly not on the level of Nivar or Donarski before her. But a solid defensive contributor. "Reniya is a match up layup for most top 25 teams" is unwarranted hyperbole in my opinion.

FYI, Gabby has the second highest field goal percentage (37.5) of anyone on the team. The only one with a higher percentage is Blanca in her limited minutes. 38% from the field is definitely not lighting it up but she’s shooting better than anyone else with significant minutes (which is a indictment of the teams poor offense so far) Considering your statement, Gabby should be taking more shots than Kate or RK since she has a higher shooting percentage.

 

[3397char]

FYI, Gabby has the second highest field goal percentage (37.5) of anyone on the team. The only one with a higher percentage is Blanca in her limited minutes. 38% from the field is definitely not lighting it up but she’s shooting better than anyone else with significant minutes (which is a indictment of the teams poor offense so far) Considering your statement, Gabby should be taking more shots than Kate or RK since she has a higher shooting percentage.

Yes, I have been arguing that the offensive play is universally bad, so no reason to single out individual players. I respond when ,say, Kelly or Thomas are trashed, when the alternatives also played just as or more poorly.

for the record, here is the effective field goal percentage of every player through 2 games:

Player	FGM	FGA	3PM	Standard FG%	Effective FG% (eFG%)
Blanca Thomas	4	7	0	57.1%	57.1%
Nyla Brooks	8	23	6	34.8%	47.8%
Gabby White	6	16	2	37.5%	43.8%
Reniya Kelly	4	13	2	30.8%	38.5%
Achol Akot	4	12	1	33.3%	37.5%
Sophie Burrows	4	14	2	28.6%	35.7%
Noelle Bofia	1	3	0	33.3%	33.3%
Kate Harpring	12	42	3	28.6%	32.1%
Laila Hull	1	9	1	11.1%	16.7%
Taissa Queiroz	0	6	0	0.0%	0.0%
Jordan Zubich	0	1	0	0.0%	0.0%
Chloe Clardy	0	0	0	—	—
Sydney Barker	0	0	0	—	—
Team Totals	44	146	17	30.1%	36.0%

Brooks is also well above White, because most of her shots are threes. And Harpring has arguably harmed the team the most. But no one is saying bench Harpring. (Not that I am advocating for that.)



I never said White was behind others. I just pointed out that her shooting numbers do not advocate for more playing time. And that the fact that she has scored more than RK, in a very inefficient manner, is not a positive in her favor.

honestly we should not be drawing any conclusions from two games, especially when one was a complete failure by everyone in all aspects of the game.

Yet you and others want to declare that Player A needs to be benched because Player B looks more promising. Nothing here looks particularly promising.

 

[4theHeels19]

Yes, I have been arguing that the offensive play is universally bad, so no reason to single out individual players. I respond when ,say, Kelly or Thomas are trashed, when the alternatives also played just as or more poorly.

for the record, here is the effective field goal percentage of every player through 2 games:

Player	FGM	FGA	3PM	Standard FG%	Effective FG% (eFG%)
Blanca Thomas	4	7	0	57.1%	57.1%
Nyla Brooks	8	23	6	34.8%	47.8%
Gabby White	6	16	2	37.5%	43.8%
Reniya Kelly	4	13	2	30.8%	38.5%
Achol Akot	4	12	1	33.3%	37.5%
Sophie Burrows	4	14	2	28.6%	35.7%
Noelle Bofia	1	3	0	33.3%	33.3%
Kate Harpring	12	42	3	28.6%	32.1%
Laila Hull	1	9	1	11.1%	16.7%
Taissa Queiroz	0	6	0	0.0%	0.0%
Jordan Zubich	0	1	0	0.0%	0.0%
Chloe Clardy	0	0	0	—	—
Sydney Barker	0	0	0	—	—
Team Totals	44	146	17	30.1%	36.0%

Brooks is also well above White, because most of her shots are threes. And Harpring has arguably harmed the team the most. But no one is saying bench Harpring. (Not that I am advocating for that.)



I never said White was behind others. I just pointed out that her shooting numbers do not advocate for more playing time. And that the fact that she has scored more than RK, in a very inefficient manner, is not a positive in her favor.

honestly we should not be drawing any conclusions from two games, especially when one was a complete failure by everyone in all aspects of the game.

Yet you and others want to declare that Player A needs to be benched because Player B looks more promising. Nothing here looks particularly promising.

3-8 for 6pts and 5 Offensive Boards in 18mins vs S. Car - White
0-3 for 0pts and 2 boards, 3 assists in 28mins vs S.Car - RK

It’s a small sample, but relevant. Big games matter. And Reniya’s numbers from last year and in abitlity to produce against any top 25 team is relevant.
It’s not only bc White “looks more promising”. There are actual results. Reniya’s not the same player she was 2 years ago.

And yea, RK’s size and athleticism is limiting. And you can’t be effective if you can’t rebound, shoot, or penetrate as a PG. She’s not helping Harpring bc she’s not a threat offensively or defensively. And she can’t create her own shot.

White is 6/16 in appx half the minutes as Kelly’s 4/13. Also important to note.

 

[DreDre81]

Yes, I have been arguing that the offensive play is universally bad, so no reason to single out individual players. I respond when ,say, Kelly or Thomas are trashed, when the alternatives also played just as or more poorly.

for the record, here is the effective field goal percentage of every player through 2 games:

Player	FGM	FGA	3PM	Standard FG%	Effective FG% (eFG%)
Blanca Thomas	4	7	0	57.1%	57.1%
Nyla Brooks	8	23	6	34.8%	47.8%
Gabby White	6	16	2	37.5%	43.8%
Reniya Kelly	4	13	2	30.8%	38.5%
Achol Akot	4	12	1	33.3%	37.5%
Sophie Burrows	4	14	2	28.6%	35.7%
Noelle Bofia	1	3	0	33.3%	33.3%
Kate Harpring	12	42	3	28.6%	32.1%
Laila Hull	1	9	1	11.1%	16.7%
Taissa Queiroz	0	6	0	0.0%	0.0%
Jordan Zubich	0	1	0	0.0%	0.0%
Chloe Clardy	0	0	0	—	—
Sydney Barker	0	0	0	—	—
Team Totals	44	146	17	30.1%	36.0%

Brooks is also well above White, because most of her shots are threes. And Harpring has arguably harmed the team the most. But no one is saying bench Harpring. (Not that I am advocating for that.)



I never said White was behind others. I just pointed out that her shooting numbers do not advocate for more playing time. And that the fact that she has scored more than RK, in a very inefficient manner, is not a positive in her favor.

honestly we should not be drawing any conclusions from two games, especially when one was a complete failure by everyone in all aspects of the game.

Yet you and others want to declare that Player A needs to be benched because Player B looks more promising. Nothing here looks particularly promising.

Again, Gabby is not putting up Curry like shooting percentage but to say that her shooting numbers do not advocate for more playing time is asinine. She has the best shooting percentage of any guard on the team so if she doesn’t deserve more playing time, does someone who has a worse percentage do? That doesn’t make sense at all to me. I haven’t declared that anyone should be benched because it’s only been 2 games and non of us have any idea how each player is being asked to contribute by the coaching staff. But you made a comment that she doesn’t deserve more playing time which the numbers disagree with. Gabby is 3rd on the team at rebounding and scoring but only 5th in minutes. Also, she’s the best defender and brings great energy to the floor. Seems to me that’s a case for more playing time but hey, I must be crazy.

 

[3397char]

3-8 for 6pts and 5 Offensive Boards in 18mins vs S. Car - White
0-3 for 0pts and 2 boards, 3 assists in 28mins vs S.Car - RK

It’s a small sample, but relevant. Big games matter. And Reniya’s numbers from last year and in abitlity to produce against any top 25 team is relevant.
It’s not only bc White “looks more promising”. There are actual results. Reniya’s not the same player she was 2 years ago.

And yea, RK’s size and athleticism is limiting. And you can’t be effective if you can’t rebound, shoot, or penetrate as a PG. She’s not helping Harpring bc she’s not a threat offensively or defensively. And she can’t create her own shot.

White is 6/16 in appx half the minutes as Kelly’s 4/13. Also important to note.

You are picking one game where everyone played poorly in a blowout loss and ignoring the competitive game, purposefully cutting the sample size in half.

you cherrypick the stats she performed poorly while ignoring the stats she did well , even in that bad game.

then projecting that result as if there is a conclusion to be drawn from one game.

then you make another broad, disparaging statement as if the evidence of her freshman and sophomore seasons do not matter; “And you can’t be effective if you can’t rebound, shoot, or penetrate as a PG.” she was 2nd team all-ACC for a reason.


yes, if she is still not 100% then her effectiveness has gone down. But those are facts not in evidence for this year and go against the reports of her coach and teammates.

 

[3397char]

Again, Gabby is not putting up Curry like shooting percentage but to say that her shooting numbers do not advocate for more playing time is asinine. She has the best shooting percentage of any guard on the team so if she doesn’t deserve more playing time, does someone who has a worse percentage do? That doesn’t make sense at all to me. I haven’t declared that anyone should be benched because it’s only been 2 games and non of us have any idea how each player is being asked to contribute by the coaching staff. But you made a comment that she doesn’t deserve more playing time which the numbers disagree with. Gabby is 3rd on the team at rebounding and scoring but only 5th in minutes. Also, she’s the best defender and brings great energy to the floor. Seems to me that’s a case for more playing time but hey, I must be crazy.

I said she has already demonstrated that she is the 3rd best guard on this team as of now. Not exactly sure that raises to the level of asinine.

i have not advocated for anyone to receive more (or less) playing time. I never said White should not receive more.

I said placing her higher than 3rd are facts not yet in evidence, because everyone played inefficiently, including her. I said Pointing out that she scored more, while doing so at an inefficient rate, does not mean that she is a better scorer. It means that she took more shots.

but the main thing I said is that Kelly does not need to be thrown under the bus for playing poorly, when everyone played poorly. Same with Thomas among the bigs, whom others were denigrating in a different thread.

i said that I believe White’s best position is the 1, not the 2, so the team is less balanced with her and Harpring in at the same time, until she shows she is a consistent threat as a catch and shoot player. That did not happen last year, it certainly may this year. Because Harpring is the clear future of this team, growing pains aside, that will limit how much time White will have at the 1. Who is the better 2 is less clear, we shall see.

I agree White brings great energy to the floor and shows great potential for a high ceiling.

fans operate on a tiny sample set of information, especially two games into the season. My inclination, as always, is to trust coaches who have much more information. That does not even include the fact that they are actual professionals With a history of winning.

 

[Jriv23]

3-8 for 6pts and 5 Offensive Boards in 18mins vs S. Car - White
0-3 for 0pts and 2 boards, 3 assists in 28mins vs S.Car - RK

It’s a small sample, but relevant. Big games matter. And Reniya’s numbers from last year and in abitlity to produce against any top 25 team is relevant.
It’s not only bc White “looks more promising”. There are actual results. Reniya’s not the same player she was 2 years ago.

And yea, RK’s size and athleticism is limiting. And you can’t be effective if you can’t rebound, shoot, or penetrate as a PG. She’s not helping Harpring bc she’s not a threat offensively or defensively. And she can’t create her own shot.

White is 6/16 in appx half the minutes as Kelly’s 4/13. Also important to note.

At some point, CB and staff are going to have to make some tough decisions about players that are starting and coming off of the bench. These are just facts. I do not think some posters are singling out certain players. I think the numbers and statistics speaks for what they are saying. I watched the men's game last night, and that was only their third game. Mike Malone did not have any problems playing Isiah Dennis and Maximo Adams (both players do come off the bench) more minutes last night because of their productivity the last two games. I feel that was the point DreDre81 was trying to make. Mike Malone is looking at this for sure, and I think CB needs to do the same. As I stated before, the college landscape has changed. Everything now is about productivity. If a coach is not producing, he or she is fired immediately. AD's are not waiting until the end of the season. Case and point, look at FSU Football. Their coach just got fired last week along with the GM.

 

[kystroup]

It is a fair argument but a couple of points:

1. I was reacting to a post that said "Kelly has not played up to par in both games." My main point was to show she played well in the OK game, especially considering her assignment in Chavez.
2. I disagree on a blanket statement that White puts more stress on opposing players than White. Unless you mean fouling them. She is averaging 1 foul for every 5 min played. While disruptive, that is not a sustainable way to earn more minutes. It speeds up the opponent to earning FTs, the most efficient shot in women's basketball. Kelly did a great job on Chavez.
3. If you are asking me who I want playing PG when Harpring is out, then yes, I agree that is White as of right now. But that is not the starting assignment up for grabs. Harpring will play the 1 when in, as the primary creator. So the question is who will play the 2. Yes there can be shot creation responsibility at the 2, but what we need most is a player who can take the top guard defensive assignment and make threes set up by other play. As of right now that is Kelly. White has shown hope of making threes after being basically forbidden to shoot at UVA, but I am going to need to see a larger sample set, as will opposing teams, before she presents as a scoring threat to spread out a defense.
4. Putting in two dribble penetrators with almost no 3pt threats to compliment them is a quick way to bog down an offense; the defenders will just pack the paint. We actually saw this in the first two games. We did not make open threes early and pretty soon we could not penetrate at all.
5. rebounding from the guard position is a definite plus and I do not want to undersell that. White clearly has that skill (Harpring even more.) But for a guard I place higher value in creating assists and especially avoiding turnovers. White is at a 1:1 ratio. The 2 turnovers is great, but I need more than 1 assist per game from a ball handler. Especially if you are shooting 31%. Right now Kelly is the only reliable player on the team in that regard.
6. Both of them are shooting well below and acceptable FG% to be efficient scorers (as is Harpring). Very small sample size as of right now, but White is 4 of 13 on 2pt attempts for 31%. That is not effective driving and finishing. But Kelly still has the shooting pedigree that tells me I want her taking good shots. For Kelly, admittedly we do not know if she has regained her soph form. For White, she has solid 2 point numbers at UVA, but 1 of 12 from 3 pt.

White reminds me of a healthy McPherson. Boundless energy and knows how to use her superior speed and athleticism. I like the tenacity. But she is also prone to getting out of control at times. She needs to clean that up. I do agree that also means she may have greater upside than Kelly. It also makes her an excellent substitute for Harpring at the 1, in terms of her ability to maintain team tempo.

all the above is an either/or, head-to-head comparison. It is not intended as criticism. I am very impressed with White; she has exceeded expectations.

I don't know that this is exactly correct.

She has not played up to par. Those shots you're referring to in the Oklahoma game were hit when the game was out of reach. Did a good job on Chavez to be sure. White does put more stress on the other team on both ends - she's more disruptive (and apt to take risks) defensively and her athleticism gives her a dimension on offense that Reniya simply doesn't have. She also fouls too much. Both can be true.

Overall, I think it's probably too early to make any lineup changes. But if we get to January and still can't rely on Reniya to hit open 3s, then I don't really know what she's doing starting. Kate is going to figure out the turnover problem eventually. If we do make a change, I would want to move Nyla to the 2 and put Burrows at the 3 to increase the size we have defensively and the shot makers on the other end.

I get that as UNC fans we appreciate/defend the senior who's stuck with us, but that appreciation also comes with expectations. The whole point of having a senior pg out there is to steady the ship when the other team goes on a run, and frankly RK has not been able to do that. I would love nothing more than for her to come out tonight and light it up, but until she does it in a game that matters I'm going to be skeptical.

 

[Jriv23]

I don't know that this is exactly correct.

She has not played up to par. Those shots you're referring to in the Oklahoma game were hit when the game was out of reach. Did a good job on Chavez to be sure. White does put more stress on the other team on both ends - she's more disruptive (and apt to take risks) defensively and her athleticism gives her a dimension on offense that Reniya simply doesn't have. She also fouls too much. Both can be true.

Overall, I think it's probably too early to make any lineup changes. But if we get to January and still can't rely on Reniya to hit open 3s, then I don't really know what she's doing starting. Kate is going to figure out the turnover problem eventually. If we do make a change, I would want to move Nyla to the 2 and put Burrows at the 3 to increase the size we have defensively and the shot makers on the other end.

I get that as UNC fans we appreciate/defend the senior who's stuck with us, but that appreciation also comes with expectations. The whole point of having a senior pg out there is to steady the ship when the other team goes on a run, and frankly RK has not been able to do that. I would love nothing more than for her to come out tonight and light it up, but until she does it in a game that matters I'm going to be skeptical.

In today's sports, it is all about productivity. The same applies in corporate America. If a person or student athletic is not performing to the standard then a change must be made. This is when tough decisions have to be made. If RK continues to not produce, then CB and staff will have to have a stern conversation about this. This happens to us on our jobs if we are not producing and this is a fact of life, no matter how well you may like a person or if the players happens to be a senior. Case in point, let's look at our Women's soccer team. Damon had to have a conversation with Bella Gaetino who is a junior now and who is well loved by us fans; however, Damon understands the value of productivity and the fact that he has to put the best players out their on the field to give us a better chance of winning soccer games. He had to replace Gaetino with Stratton. Geaetino has been starting for us for at least two to three years, so we know this was a very tough decision that he had to made. I think CB might have to do this with RK soon, if she continues with no production or having an impact when she is on the court.

 

[Carolina151]

Relax. She’s been out with injuries and restrictions.

 

[JOB1937]

And certainly looked rusty tonight. Not a good performance but she is coming back from injury so it’s to be expected.

 

[Jriv23]

Relax. She’s been out with injuries and restrictions.

I totally agree with you about CC. She is slowly coming back from injury. We have to be more patience with her. The same goes for Toomey. Go Heels!