Are there any Schiano defenders left?

[RU on Manns Planet]

I don't think I agree with this. First, Greg's first real purchase was Wimsatt and it was with the intention of having a running QB. Second, we've had QBs (The Jobu Package) that Schiano would let on the field with zero intention of ever even letting them throw a pass. And third, we keep trying to run RPO plays with QBs that clearly don't have the speed and athleticism to do it.

I think he's just a terrible judge of QB talent and he has no ability to make the below average talent he recruits better.

Wimsatt was not a dual threat QB. He was supposed to be a pocket passer who could run fast in a straight line. Problem is he was a poor passer and that was the big gamble Schiano took that back fired.

Yes, there was a Jabu package which was a sanitized way of saying that we had a backup that we didn’t trust to throw the ball so if he had to play, we had to use him to run. That’s a coaching failure, not evidence that he wants a running QB.

Your point about the RPOs is my point though. He doesn’t want QBs running and thus their speed is not a priority during recruiting. If he wanted them running, then we’d have guys like we’ve seen at Va Tech, Ohio U, BC, etc that all can run and all who probably Rutgers could have gotten.

i don’t think the issue is as much of a lack of an eye for lack as much as recruiting the wrong archetype, then QB development and QB management.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

Rutgers does not have enough to attract a good mobile quarterback.

Schiano recruits the wrong archetype. There are very few college QBs who are elite passers and that is why the game has evolved to recruit QBs who can throw AND run so you have 2 ways to get yards EVERYBODY else just about does it but Greg.

Only you can find a way to make everything about NIL despite literally watching TWO lower NIL programs have dual threat QBs running rampant, making our D look like the keystone cops. Why do they have enough NIL to get QBs who beat us??

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

You love to complain about his gameday coaching.
explain to me how gameday coaching led multiple Rutgers defenders to not make these Michigan plays. First play was earlier in the game. Second play won the game later on.

Let’s not over simplify. Nobody ever said the ONLY reason he loses games is game day coaching. The Michigan game was one in particular that I would say was not due to game day coaching. We just weren’t good enough, particularly without the starting QB and Duff.

But two comments:

1. Carr is very athletic, which makes him harder to tackle. If we wanted to, we could also recruit QBs who are more athletic instead of making us easier to defend. That’s not a NIL issue. It is a Schiano QB archetype issue.

2. Nobody made Schiano take Allison. Schiano by his own admission was distracted by the DC hire which affected the portal results. Then he had to settle for Allison. That’s not a NIL issue.

 

[Caliknight]

9 was assuming an OSU like roster.

He wouldn’t even get 9 with OSU talent. He couldn’t even get the D to perform

 

[Caliknight]

Wimsatt was not a dual threat QB. He was supposed to be a pocket passer who could run fast in a straight line. Problem is he was a poor passer and that was the big gamble Schiano took that back fired.

Yes, there was a Jabu package which was a sanitized way of saying that we had a backup that we didn’t trust to throw the ball so if he had to play, we had to use him to run. That’s a coaching failure, not evidence that he wants a running QB.

Your point about the RPOs is my point though. He doesn’t want QBs running and thus their speed is not a priority during recruiting. If he wanted them running, then we’d have guys like we’ve seen at Va Tech, Ohio U, BC, etc that all can run and all who probably Rutgers could have gotten.

i don’t think the issue is as much of a lack of an eye for lack as much as recruiting the wrong archetype, then QB development and QB management.

Exactly. Wimsatt wasn’t a QB. He was a runner of some kind. That Elite QB thing was an eye opener. He couldn’t hit guys with no D on the field and receivers in tee shirts. Embarrassingly bad. But that’s who Schiano hitched his wagon to. Said it at the time. He was a TE maybe. Not sure of his hands though. Someone along thebway who cared about him should have had a real conversation about his talents.

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Wimsatt was not a dual threat QB. He was supposed to be a pocket passer who could run fast in a straight line.

Rivals had him ranked as their #4 dual-threat QB coming out of high school.

Your point about the RPOs is my point though. He doesn’t want QBs running and thus their speed is not a priority during recruiting. If he wanted them running, then we’d have guys like we’ve seen at Va Tech, Ohio U, BC, etc that all can run and all who probably Rutgers could have gotten.

If he doesn't want them running, why are they running? We run that awful RPO crap all the time and it NEVER works because the QBs are slow and unathletic.

 

[RedChucken123]

Watching this UCLA vs. Minnesota game right now and I googled UCLA’s head coach, Bob Chesney. He was two year head coach from JAMES MADISON before coming to UCLA.

This might be crazy, but maybe we fire Schiano and let Johansen be interim for the rest of the year. Give him a chance to make a case for the job next year, so we don’t have to fire everybody and completely start from scratch.

Clearly, Schiano is washed up and doesn’t have it anymore and just hustled us for a big fat bag of money.

 

[RU#1fan]

Let’s not over simplify. Nobody ever said the ONLY reason he loses games is game day coaching. The Michigan game was one in particular that I would say was not due to game day coaching. We just weren’t good enough, particularly without the starting QB and Duff.

But two comments:

1. Carr is very athletic, which makes him harder to tackle. If we wanted to, we could also recruit QBs who are more athletic instead of making us easier to defend. That’s not a NIL issue. It is a Schiano QB archetype issue.

2. Nobody made Schiano take Allison. Schiano by his own admission was distracted by the DC hire which affected the portal results. Then he had to settle for Allison. That’s not a NIL issue.

80th Ranked in the CFB Portal this season. NIL $ Rank #35 this season.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

Exactly. Wimsatt wasn’t a QB. He was a runner of some kind. That Elite QB thing was an eye opener. He couldn’t hit guys with no D on the field and receivers in tee shirts. Embarrassingly bad. But that’s who Schiano hitched his wagon to. Said it at the time. He was a TE maybe. Not sure of his hands though. Someone along thebway who cared about him should have had a real conversation about his talents.

Exactly, he hitched the 2.0 wagon on a kid who did not have proven passing skills coming out of high school and that was a big risk. AND he hitched the 2.0 wagon to an OC* that he was incompatible with.

And YET, we have to hear so many different excuses why we are where we are. NIL had nothing to do with either of those decisions, which were 2 of the biggest contributors to the 2.0 era faltering

*Who by the way has an offense this season averaging 31 points a game and 415 yards a game. Anybody remember how many ridiculous posts there were that were calling this guy a buffoon where a group of us were pointing out that it was more likely that the head coach was the issue and then we had to hear nonsensical comments about how the head coach does not call the plays. And the best part was that RutgersAl was all over blaming SG with no consideration of the fact that Schiano may have had an impact on the situation.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

Rivals had him ranked as their #4 dual-threat QB coming out of high school.


If he doesn't want them running, why are they running? We run that awful RPO crap all the time and it NEVER works because the QBs are slow and unathletic.

Let me come at this a different way. Did you think Wimsatt was utilized at Rutgers as a dual threat QB?

 

[RUChet]

It depends on how you define a "defender." Do I think he is an above average P4 in-game coach? No. Do I think he's a very good recruiter? Yes, except at the quarterback position (which unfortunately is the most important). Do I think it is likely the person who eventually replaces him will produce better results? No. Do I think he is capable of producing a New Years Day Bowl team if he coached at Ohio State or Michigan? Yes, definitely. Do I think he was totally screwed by the implementation of NIL and the transfer portal? Yes (any and all Rutgers coaches would and will be).

Awful take. In GS2.0 it where is the evidence he’s a good recruiter? How many guys haven’t developed? How many portal guys have sucked?

QB has sucked
TE has sucked
LB has sucked
OL barely passable
DL below average
DB below average
RB/WR passable overall for B1G

 

[jsol_05]

Schiano recruits the wrong archetype. There are very few college QBs who are elite passers and that is why the game has evolved to recruit QBs who can throw AND run so you have 2 ways to get yards EVERYBODY else just about does it but Greg.

Only you can find a way to make everything about NIL despite literally watching TWO lower NIL programs have dual threat QBs running rampant, making our D look like the keystone cops. Why do they have enough NIL to get QBs who beat us??

Well the person ( I don't say his name) is right about Rutgers not having enough. Because that "enough" would be a competent head coach.

 

[RU on Manns Planet]

Here is a Here is an exercise in critical thinking

In the press conference, he talked about how in the first half the team played OK but in the second half not a single position played well.

What is more probable?

Option A: That all 25 to 30 players came out of the locker room and collectively didn’t play as well in the second half?

Option B: Wisconsin coaching staff made more effective adjustments, rendering our team ineffective?

 

[brookdale-soda]

NIL clearly spread the talent out a little more and exposed the coaches that are better recruiters than they are pure coaches that could win. It now makes no sense to ride the pine at Ohio State or Michigan when you can get paid at another school. Its the reason we are seeing more parity. At schianos peak he was a great recruiter. He underachieved in 2006 with the roster he had. Look at all the NFL talent we had. Fast fwd to today. He cant get the players he needs to create a significant enough talent advantage to win, even against lower tier teams.

 

[Scarlet Blind_rivals]

The evidence to fire sooner than later keeps piling up.

 

[Dowling's Revenge]

What makes you think Greg is capable of going 7-5? If that were the case no one would be wanting him fired..

I think you just answered OP's question

The fact that he did it twice?

 

[Kbe4]

The evidence to fire sooner than later keeps piling up.

Well, Rutgers football has always been "special".
Every time I think I'm coming around to the idea of terminating GS I look at the list of other head football coaches we've had here since the move to the Big Time. And I ask myself exactly which quality coach would wanna come here and add his name to that awesome list.

 

[Rob from NJ]

... and they played in three New Years Day bowls and finished in the Top 10.

Except Schiano wasn't the HC of Ohio State. Ohio State offense averaged over 41 points/game in 2017 and over 42 points/game in 2018. In 2018 Ohio State won the Rose Bowl in spite of a Defense that was ranked 71 in the country and 50 in scoring defense. Schiano **** the bed with that defense and subsequently was correctly canned when Day took over.

 

[Rob from NJ]

This is a slanted description of events by someone who obviously hates Schiano. You forgot to mention all the lost starters lost to the draft after 2017. The 2018 defense experienced growing pains due to all the new starters. Schiano groomed them to be successful in 2019, which they were under Hafley.

the Rutgers fanbase has never provided the financial support to recruit successfully. This is why we have zero signature wins.

Cool story Bro. Al once again going to his full bag of excuses and fictional information. Ohio State lost more star defensive players to the NFL Draft in 2016 than 2018 and somehow managed to rank in the top 5 during the 2016 season with a slew of new starters. The 2018 season saw a mixture of veterans with experience and underclassmen, however, it was complete with a number of defensive stars including Chase Young (meaningful starting snaps the year before), Nick Bosa (only played 3 games due to injury), Dre-Mont Jones, Malik Harrison, Jordan Fuller, Shaun Wade and Kendall Sheffield, all outstanding defenders across the DL, LB and Secondary. But go ahead and excuse Schiano's poor performance of giving up over 400 yards per game and opponents scoring over 25 points a game on a bunch of new starters that didn't know how to play football. Ohio State during that decade was NEVER in rebuilding mode and always reloading every single year.

Luke Fickell was the key defensive coach in 2016. He leaves prior to 2017 season and Ohio States gives the keys to the Porsche to Schiano. Slowly but surely Schiano crashes the car and burns. Ohio State had to bring in Grinch in 2018 to see if he could support Schiano as Urban knew things weren't working out. Didn't work out so well, HC Day smart enough to get rid of Schiano and Hafley cleaned up Schiano's poop in 2019. If you have a spin on actual events different than above please provide at least 1 fact instead of an asinine assumption that it was due to all new starters.

You're always blaming the fanbase and money when its been proven over and over again that Rutgers football spending is in line with a number of its peers who have a lot more success than Schiano on the football field. Rutgers can't recruit in the NIL era because the Head Coach and his staff suck at evaluating talent and putting together a successful team on the field. Losing breeds players who don't want to play at Rutgers.

Will you go away and stop posting when Schiano is canned? That would be the respectful thing to do instead of polluting this message board.

 

[Rob from NJ]

Well, Rutgers football has always been "special".
Every time I think I'm coming around to the idea of terminating GS I look at the list of other head football coaches we've had here since the move to the Big Time. And I ask myself exactly which quality coach would wanna come here and add his name to that awesome list.

Past does not equal the future.

If you do nothing the same poor results will happen over and over again.

If you're going to be in it, have to take the risks necessary in order to one day be competitive. Otherwise, it's time to move on and drop out. The apathy of simply cashing a Big Ten check every year erodes the fanbase, dries out sponsorships and provides for really bad marketing of the school.

Schiano's time has run its course. This is not working and I would like to one day look back and view Schiano's tenure positively based on his 1.0 time on the Banks.

 

[Caliknight]

Except Schiano wasn't the HC of Ohio State. Ohio State offense averaged over 41 points/game in 2017 and over 42 points/game in 2018. In 2018 Ohio State won the Rose Bowl in spite of a Defense that was ranked 71 in the country and 50 in scoring defense. Schiano **** the bed with that defense and subsequently was correctly canned when Day took over.

All with the best talent you can get. Another black mark on his career record

 

[AdventureHasAName]

Except Schiano wasn't the HC of Ohio State. Ohio State offense averaged over 41 points/game in 2017 and over 42 points/game in 2018. In 2018 Ohio State won the Rose Bowl in spite of a Defense that was ranked 71 in the country and 50 in scoring defense. Schiano **** the bed with that defense and subsequently was correctly canned when Day took over.

Agreed. But your point was that Ohio State wasn't any good when Schiano was running their defense and that's not even remotely accurate. Schiano is more than capable of coaching a defense that reaches New Years Day bowl games; he's already done it multiple times.

 

[Nycrusupporter]

Watching this UCLA vs. Minnesota game right now and I googled UCLA’s head coach, Bob Chesney. He was two year head coach from JAMES MADISON before coming to UCLA.

This might be crazy, but maybe we fire Schiano and let Johansen be interim for the rest of the year. Give him a chance to make a case for the job next year, so we don’t have to fire everybody and completely start from scratch.

Clearly, Schiano is washed up and doesn’t have it anymore and just hustled us for a big fat bag of money.

Johansen is over his head as our DC, and you want to give him a chance to be the Head Coach??? He has one year of HC experience at an FCS school, he has no business being on a P2 coaching staff and should go back where he came from, where he was making less than a quarter of what he is now. And imdont understand the comparison to James Madison, The are a very good program and Chesney’s teams at JMU would have beaten Rutgers.

 

[Rob from NJ]

Agreed. But your point was that Ohio State wasn't any good when Schiano was running their defense and that's not even remotely accurate. Schiano is more than capable of coaching a defense that reaches New Years Day bowl games; he's already done it multiple times.

Where did I say Ohio State wasn't any good? The offenses in 2017 and 2018 were incredible and in 2018 they won 13 out of 14 games in spite of a porous defense that gave up over 400 yards a game and allowed opponents to score on average mid 20s against them. These were statistics that included playing a Rutgers team that only scored 3 points against Ohio State. If not for playing Rutgers, Ohio State's defensive numbers looks much worse. Yes, the defense in 2018 wasn't a good defense run by Schiano, although it had some great talent, and the numbers prove that it wasn't good. Then Schiano got fired.

 

[yesrutgers01]

As we watch the local NFL teams as well - keeping in mind that one team lost it's starting QB as well.

Both teams are with new or very new Coaching staffs. Both teams very bad last year and seemed lost with no real identity for many years.

1 team - veteran QB in the league for many years. Strong RB room and a dynamic WR. Tons of young talent
1 team - 2nd year QB and he gets injured. A strong RB but not a strong point. and a strong WR group.

Neither team had what you would call a strong defense and neither team with an identity or good clubhouses. Culture was a mess

And we watch this year- one HC and his staff has team - starting QB out for the season, They have that hardnosed identity - play every play hard and too the whistle. Show up as part of our family or you will be gone. And they are playing like one of the best teams in the NFL and getting better every game - the local sports bars that have been empty for years are full again and the team is the talk of the NFL.

The other team- rudderless, no identity, coach has no control or any idea how to set this young talent up for success...they are the talk of the NFL as well- but as the joke. There is no good player that wants to be a part of this and draft picks hope they do not get selected. And this is a team that has been selecting so many top 1st round talent that it isn't funny.

So- yeah, coaching matters in football. And Rutgers falls in with that 2nd team. No identity and no hope.

 

[Shelby65]

Agreed. But your point was that Ohio State wasn't any good when Schiano was running their defense and that's not even remotely accurate. Schiano is more than capable of coaching a defense that reaches New Years Day bowl games; he's already done it multiple times.

Flawed logic. Sure he was officially a coach. A coach with the benefit of a huge talent edge. Same as @ Miami which launched his fraudulent career that we’re still suffering.

He’s a terrible coach who’s benefitted like no other from ‘right place right time’ luck.

Peel away the talent edge and be reminded how he’s done against equal or lesser talent. The sheer incompetence is crystal clear: UNH, new FBS UConn, new BE Cinci, UMass ….

Best and longest time fraudster in the history of coaching, bar none. No one else comes close.

 

[rutgersal_rivals139582]

Past does not equal the future.

If you do nothing the same poor results will happen over and over again.

If you're going to be in it, have to take the risks necessary in order to one day be competitive. Otherwise, it's time to move on and drop out. The apathy of simply cashing a Big Ten check every year erodes the fanbase, dries out sponsorships and provides for really bad marketing of the school.

Schiano's time has run its course. This is not working and I would like to one day look back and view Schiano's tenure positively based on his 1.0 time on the Banks.

fair enough. How big an NIL check are you writing so the new coach will be successful. Because without a significant NIL support, it makes zero sense to switch.

 

[Caliknight]

Flawed logic. Sure he was officially a coach. A coach with the benefit of a huge talent edge. Same as @ Miami which launched his fraudulent career that we’re still suffering.

He’s a terrible coach who’s benefitted like no other from ‘right place right time’ luck.

Peel away the talent edge and be reminded how he’s done against equal or lesser talent. The sheer incompetence is crystal clear: UNH, new FBS UConn, new BE Cinci, UMass ….

Best and longest time fraudster in the history of coaching, bar none. No one else comes close.

Never more obvious was when he took over the defense after Harisymiak left. Schiano had a month with them. He turned a decent D into Swiss cheese. He’s a terrible DC. You see it every game we play. His finger prints all over it

 

[Shelby65]

Never more obvious was when he took over the defense after Harisymiak left. Schiano had a month with them. He turned a decent D into Swiss cheese. He’s a terrible DC. You see it every game we play. His finger prints all over it

Yes, he was the same fraud at Miami and OSU but the loaded roster hid that like the moon does the sun in eclipses.

So sure he coached the D on NYD bowl teams but he doesn’t deserve much more credit than the team bus drivers do.

 

[Kbe4]

Past does not equal the future.

That's what a friend told me when RU hired Chris Ash.
Although another friend asked me why someone would take the Rutgers job if they were a quality head football coach

Schiano's time has run its course. This is not working and I would like to one day look back and view Schiano's tenure positively based on his 1.0 time on the Banks.

Ya know, I sorta agree with that. It's just....like I've said....I'm not convinced that the next hire will have more of a chance of turning this thing around than Schiano. Although neither is something I'd bet on. And it's less a lack of confidence in those who will make the decision on the next coach than the fact that I have no answer when the critics of the program I know ask me what quality talent would consider taking the Rutgers job. How does one remove the stink of mediocrity surrounding this football program ?
Oh...and who will be able to recruit our Mark Cuban ?

 

[LotusAggressor_rivals]

NIL clearly spread the talent out a little more and exposed the coaches that are better recruiters than they are pure coaches that could win. It now makes no sense to ride the pine at Ohio State or Michigan when you can get paid at another school. Its the reason we are seeing more parity. At schianos peak he was a great recruiter. He underachieved in 2006 with the roster he had. Look at all the NFL talent we had. Fast fwd to today. He cant get the players he needs to create a significant enough talent advantage to win, even against lower tier teams.

NIL and especially the transfer portal have exposed a lot of coaches. The success of Chesney at UCLA and Cignetti at Indiana have put the heat under a lot of seats. It's also short circuited the usual excuses.

 

[RU#1fan]

That's what a friend told me when RU hired Chris Ash.
Although another friend asked me why someone would take the Rutgers job if they were a quality head football coach

Ya know, I sorta agree with that. It's just....like I've said....I'm not convinced that the next hire will have more of a chance of turning this thing around than Schiano. Although neither is something I'd bet on. And it's less a lack of confidence in those who will make the decision on the next coach than the fact that I have no answer when the critics of the program I know ask me what quality talent would consider taking the Rutgers job. How does one remove the stink of mediocrity surrounding this football program ?
Oh...and who will be able to recruit our Mark Cuban ?

Yes that’s unknown..whether the next hire will turn it around. What is absolutely known is the current hire is never getting it turned around.

 

[Rob from NJ]

Yes that’s unknown..whether the next hire will turn it around. What is absolutely known is the current hire is never getting it turned around.

So very true. Do nothing and you get the same results which includes wasting resources without progression, as well as, continuing the erosion of an already small fanbase that desperately is searching for hope.

 

[jsol_05]

So very true. Do nothing and you get the same results which includes wasting resources without progression, as well as, continuing the erosion of an already small fanbase that desperately is searching for hope.

GS isn't motivating anyone and the good players will have to make a business decision soon. Keep playing and could get hurt or pack it in and get ready for the draft. The second tier with eligibility are thinking about where they will be playing next year. The recruit are rethinking their decision, especially if GS is retained. The fans are thinking do I really want to sit in the stands and freeze my *** off the next coming weeks. Hopefully Kelli is thinking about who will be walking the sidelines next year. Me, I am thinking that my Doctor will tell me my blood pressure is out of whack tomorrow, diagnosis, stop watching Rutgers football and stay the hell off Rivals

 

[Kbe4]

GS isn't motivating anyone and the good players will have to make a business decision soon. Keep playing and could get hurt or pack it in and get ready for the draft. The second tier with eligibility are thinking about where they will be playing next year. The recruit are rethinking their decision, especially if GS is retained. The fans are thinking do I really want to sit in the stands and freeze my *** off the next coming weeks. Hopefully Kelli is thinking about who will be walking the sidelines next year. Me, I am thinking that my Doctor will tell me my blood pressure is out of whack tomorrow, diagnosis, stop watching Rutgers football and stay the hell off Rivals

With that blood pressure issue i sure hope you're not a Mets/Jets fan.

 

[RU#1fan]

So very true. Do nothing and you get the same results which includes wasting resources without progression, as well as, continuing the erosion of an already small fanbase that desperately is searching for hope.

And now he is coming back.
Rutgers shows they are not committed to Football.Neither should we now.

 

[Rob from NJ]

And now he is coming back.
Rutgers shows they are not committed to Football.Neither should we now.

Personally I stopped giving money, attending games and buying apparel after last season. Was contacted by an Asst. Director from the RFund last month. He asked to meet for a cup of coffee with me. Wrote him back and let him know I will not give another penny until Schiano is gone. Asked him to contact me when a new Head Coach is hired and I'd send a check in the mail.

 

[RUHEADHUNTER]

fair enough. How big an NIL check are you writing so the new coach will be successful. Because without a significant NIL support, it makes zero sense to switch.

stop asking people that and look in a mirror. How much did you give or will you give. I'll answer for myself. Im not giving a penny to this program.