When Lebby was hired, Selmon was pretty new in the job, and we had just finished a disastrous season with a basically interim coach, and then another interim coach. Our NIL was crap because Cohen didn't bother with it. It was not an attractive job at all, and I can't imagine Lebby was one of our top choices. Say what you will about Selmon, but he has done a good job fund raising and making our NIL competitive. We are in a much better position financially than we were three years ago. Is it enough to attract a sitting head coach this time should we pull the trigger on Lebby?
Is our football job more attractive now than it was when Lebby was hired?
- Thread starter FlotownDawg
- Start date
Yes.
A high school coach and KT got us to No. 16 in the country. A decent coach and KT gets us a playoff home game next year.
A high school coach and KT got us to No. 16 in the country. A decent coach and KT gets us a playoff home game next year.
It's more attractive than non-SEC/B1G jobs, save a few, because we have SEC money and notoriety. Within the SEC, it's still viewed the same way it always was.
NIL is not what made us settle for Lenny. That was Selmunz.
NIL is not what made us settle for Lenny. That was Selmunz.
Is our football job more attractive now than it was when Lebby was hired?
Marginally. If the rest of the season plays out as we think it will (possibly two wins), the only reason it would be better would be if actual NIL figures are shared with the prospective candidate (instead of all of these speculative USA Today article numbers) and they are healthy numbers. And, IF Taylor decides to come back and IF Taylor is healthy again. Otherwise its a dumpster fire program just like it was when Lebby was hired because he didn't improve it at all
Without question it is, and will be. We have the money we need to be competitive next year and with a healthy KT, as we saw earlier this season, we can play with anybody. The fan support is here when we have a product worth watching (see ASU game last year, first month of this year). And Lebby has proven you can get skill players here, something that had not been shown that often in our history. He has actually proven you can be competitive even with a young coach learning on the job (UT, UF, UTx games last year).
Besides having the money to pay, say, a top-30 coach, his staff, and good players, we also have the SEC pull for sitting non-SEC head coaches. We are a national brand just by virtue of being in this conference. We do have an attractive job nationally, no matter what a lot of our own fans think.
Besides having the money to pay, say, a top-30 coach, his staff, and good players, we also have the SEC pull for sitting non-SEC head coaches. We are a national brand just by virtue of being in this conference. We do have an attractive job nationally, no matter what a lot of our own fans think.
The only answer any of us can give is, "would I do it this year?". I want to see what happens Saturday, and probably week-to-week after that. But today, I lean toward yes. I'd have already made a couple of calls to gauge interest.
Then why do we keep ending up with coordinators when hiring a HC?
My answer to OP’s question: With KT, the job would definitely be more attractive than it was when we hired Lebby. Without him, it’s the same or worse, considering we’d be looking for our fifth coach since Mullen left less than a decade ago (and that’s not counting Knox).
The flaw in this plan is that this sort of thing never goes as well as you think it will. Even if we keep KT initially, we might lose a flurry of others. Firing a coach is just a big destabilization, especially in this era. Of course, Lebby has kinda been destabilizing the team every year (one of his mistakes IMO) so this may not matter at all.
We won't know until we do it. It's a shame he just can't win 6-7 games and put this all to bed. Could still happen I suppose. Maybe he'll scheme something up now with only Puckett getting all the snaps, and no overhanging QB distractions.
I don’t have a clue what our NIL budget actually is and doubt anyone on this board does …but common sense tells me it’s bottom third in the SEC. It might be better than many ACC and Big 12 but we don’t play in those leagues so we aren’t super attractive.
If the players are here for the money and it doesn't change, I doubt the coach getting fired moves the needle much. If they are a player with a high portal value and are staring at a new coach regardless of whether they stay or go, then I suspect the portal becomes more attractive and it will just come down to how much we want them to stay ($$$). So I semi agree, but with a caveat that the actual change itself, along with money will be bigger motivators than losing Lebby specifically.
We did hire Leach, but other than that you're right. You'd have to ask our ADs, but I guess the lure of paying less and finding a "diamond in the rough", is strong when you're in a meeting and looking at the budget on paper. We could have hired a Fritz, Sumrall or others, but for whatever reason Selmon went the other way.
As others have said, it's a crap shoot. There have been a lot of coordinators who turned out great. Mullen was a good hire for us. Kiffin, Kirby, Cignetti - there are a ton of recent successful examples. Also a ton of unsuccessful examples. Problem is you never know until someone gives them a shot.
I do think we need to hire a proven head coach this time. Let's try one without a learning curve.
Being a member of the SEC helps us.
Being a member of the SEC hurts us.
Yes, we have the resources to pay and attract a good coach but a good coach also knows the challenge of winning here consistently. That leads to a lot of doubt that has to be overcome, especially with our history of how we have handled NIL comparatively. And recruiting perception....
Being a member of the SEC hurts us.
Yes, we have the resources to pay and attract a good coach but a good coach also knows the challenge of winning here consistently. That leads to a lot of doubt that has to be overcome, especially with our history of how we have handled NIL comparatively. And recruiting perception....
Some people know the general area where it is, where it has been, and where it is going to be.
We will be competitive. Middle of the pack, not bottom third. Which is about right for us. We will never be Georgia, A&M, or Texas. That's just a mathematical impossibility.
You're underestimating two factors:
1. The opportunity to make $6-7M per year is attractive, even if you have to suffer some losses to get it. Not to mention the buyout possibilities if it gets really bad.
2. The ultimate confidence most of these people have who aspire to be a head coach. They mostly believe they can take any chicken shiit and make it into chicken salad. These aren't guys who are scared of competition (the majority of them.)
Compared to the Big 12 or ACC and the bottom half of the Big Ten, absolutely! Unfortunately, we only play them once a year.
Compared to the rest of the country too. We do play 4 non-con games each year. Top 12 in the SEC is basically at least Top 40 in the country.
But besides that - are you demanding that we should be at the top of the SEC in NIL budgets? Or else what? I have some really bad news for you if that's what you expect.
Because we’re cheap as 17. It’s part of the Mississippi State mentality. Buy something cheap, think you can fix it, work on it non-stop until you’ve wasted so much time and money that it’s worn you down financially and mentally, then end up throwing it away and telling yourself you never liked it anyways and moving on to your next failed project.
When what you should’ve done was spent the money on the front end and bought the nice s**t that works so you could spend your time elsewhere and working on another venture to help fund the other ones.
MState folks aren’t visionaries, entrepreneurs or risk takers. They’re introverts, conservative, stubborn, and refuse to have anyone tell them there are better ways to do things
A better question would be, “Is our NIL and collective fundraising more attractive than when Lebby got here?” You can make a real argument the reason we hired Lebby was due to the poor state of our NIL.
100% you fire him. You might be the only SEC opening. Lots of great candidates in the G6 that you could hire. Next year might have more turnover in SEC. Plus are you really going to re up Lebby. Are you going to tie a ton of money in new coaches for one year.
Your pool to hire is going to be much deeper this year.
We did that because we could back then.
My comment was about a new coach, who I would expect to have head coaching experience.
In 2017 we were prepared to pay Mullen 7MM. I wished our fans didn’t act like we are some EBT card program
This trope should really die now. We are competitive in every way. Yes, we are still the smallest house in a very rich neighborhood (probably always will be), but we have shown over and over we can compete with nearly everyone on the field when we're at our best. We just have to make good decisions. It's not a money thing any longer.
The frustrating thing is that I expect national pundits and other competitor schools to keep saying this shiit. But we say it as much as or more than they do. We help them all paint the picture of how "poor" we are. It's stupid. I'm not sure if State fans say it because they truly don't know, or because their self-loathing is so deeply ingrained that they can't help being stuck in the old days.
Either way, it would really help change the tide if we stopped saying stupid stuff like this. 1. It's no longer true; and 2. It's terrible for marketing.
I've heard people saying we need to quit comparing ourselves to OM and understand where we are at, but I don't understand that logic. For most of my 48 years we were almost dead-even with OM in W-L and Egg Bowl wins. The resumes looked almost identical. Of course you always heard their fans talk about the 1950s, but who cares that was so long ago. Them being a significant level above us is a recent trend and happened when they went all-in to get Kiffin. I don't understand why people don't think we could do the same thing and take a step the same way if we ponied up to get the right person in.
KT is talented enough to thrive in any offense. There is no “best coach for KT”.
Just hire the best coach, period, with the only caveat that they run some modern offense and not the wishbone or some shít.
In fact, I think that’s kind of a strike against Mullen. He never had a truly great offense at MSU that didn’t have the QB taking a ton of hits. That’s probably not ideal moving forward for any P4 team in the NIL / Portal era, but especially not for K1.
Yes slightly and none of it has to do with Lebby. I think the potential of our job is infinitely more attractive due to NIL fundraising commitment from the AD compared to what we had when Lebby was hired.
The ability to succeed immediately is attractive because you’re inheriting a generational QB. The downside is you’re fighting an uphill battle in recruiting, especially in state, because you’ve allowed your rival to win 5 of 6 (soon to be 6 of 7) and they’re objectively light years ahead of us in on the field success. That’s why a guy like Dickert, Eck, or someone of that ilk that isn’t afraid of a challenge and will get it turned around immediately would knock it out of the park in year 1. Unfortunately we feel going 6-6 and beating the worst Vandy team in a decade is enough “improvement”
Yes, between the Arizona St game last year (that took over social media for the week after the game) and our start this year, it shows you can win and put a fun product on the field in an amazing atmosphere. Couple that with more and more students and Starkville being ranked as one of the top college towns in America, the ingredients are there, we just need a good chef.
If its framed up adquately by a compotent AD, sure: (1) same offensive philosophy & playbook (2) improved OL, so you don't get molested before you complete a 3-step drop (3) improved D so you don't have to score 34+ points every game (4) and you get to have a say in any skill players pursued in the portal....this is your 17ing team.
I think he'll buy that.
But I have 0% confidence in Salmon to deliver.
There’s an OC running the same offense a few hours up the road in Memphis this season. He’d be my first call for OC, especially if Eck or Dickert is the guy
They went all in to get players and Kiffin was attracted to that.
That was a factor. The numbers I have seen says we spent ~ $24M on our roster and OM spent ~ $30M. If we had just came off of a playoff semi-final game last year, I have to believe we would have gotten enough NIL contributions to get over $30M. There is no reason we should look at what they have done and say we can't do that because we are Mississippi State. Until recently we were programs with very similar results and our base would generate similar NIL with a competitive program.
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