Hank and Heck against NW

r_desihawk

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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
 

Jonesy5960

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Feb 1, 2023
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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
Yes. Hank is a better QB. Period. End of story.
 

squeezebox_1

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Watch game film? You have access to the all encompassing field views that aren't shown on the broadcast? Also why does one qb have to be **** on in order to give the other kudos?
Well, going to the game gives you those views, so yes. Also, the word NEITHER is pretty simple to state that I'm not just dunking on one vs the other. I'll stand pat and say our QB play is trash. I prefer which ever QB leads us to a win.
 

oldxbbc

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Sep 19, 2013
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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
Totally disagree!
 

eyesofhawk

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Apr 17, 2011
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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
If a guy is playing himself off the field that's one thing.

But the logic is, pretty much every team in the country settled on a qb a long time ago. There are reasons for that.

The Minnesota game was a glaring example of Iowa's leadership on offense being underdeveloped. No way there would have been that many fumbles had Iowa only been playing one qb this season.

These guys have to figure out who they are, where their leadership comes from, and start building a rhythm together.

The Wisconsin game was the perfect step in that direction. No way the desire isn't to keep building off that, unless Hank is absolute garbage.

He's done enough to win the job and play through some imperfections. Time to be a real football team
 
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uihawk82

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Nov 17, 2021
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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
This is true, even great QBs have some less than good, avg or poor games, witness Mahomes against the seahawks (then the bears just ripped the seahawks apart in all phases, i luv it) Yes, we need the qbs to be above average or very good most of the time. we shall see
 

uihawk82

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If a guy is playing himself off the field that's one thing.

But the logic is, pretty much every team in the country settled on a qb a long time ago. There are reasons for that.

The Minnesota game was a glaring example of Iowa's leadership on offense being underdeveloped. No way there would have been that many fumbles had Iowa only been playing one qb this season.

These guys have to figure out who they are, where their leadership comes from, and start building a rhythm together.

The Wisconsin game was the perfect step in that direction. No way the desire isn't to keep building off that, unless Hank is absolute garbage.

He's done enough to win the job and play through some imperfections. Time to be a real football team
WHAT?? how does using 2 qbs who make a clean handoff have any different effect on running backs and receivers fumbling downfield. That makes no logical, physical, scientific, or even supernatural sense. NONE
 

Jonesy5960

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Feb 1, 2023
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not saying you won't be proven correct but doesn't he have to produce in back to back games to pull away ?
Not really. Hank isn't the second coming of Nate Stanley, but he's better than Heck at pretty much every aspect of the position. You might have a situation where Hank looks like he did vs Ohio State and you insert Heck to try and provide a spark, but Heck is not the guy. He makes bad reads, can't throw the long ball, has too low of a release, and isn't the second coming of Drew Tate that so many wanted him to be. He's a satisfactory back-up today. No more. No less.
 
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Fight4Iowa

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Nov 25, 2025
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Not really. Hank isn't the second coming of Nate Stanley, but he's better than Heck at pretty much every aspect of the position. You might have a situation where Hank looks like he did vs Ohio State and you insert Heck to try and provide a spark, but Heck is not the guy. He makes bad reads, can't throw the long ball, has too low of a release, and isn't the second coming of Drew Tate that so many wanted him to be. He's a satisfactory back-up today. No more. No less.
I think Hecklinski is better at anticipating people being open and probably can get a bit hotter, like in the zone, than Hank can. But Heck's arm isn't as strong, he's short, he doesn't run, and he makes too many bad decisions. That's why I like Hank better overall. I think this year of experience and adding another 15 lbs. of muscle in the off season for Hank will do wonders for his running ability next year too.
 

83Hawk

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WHAT?? how does using 2 qbs who make a clean handoff have any different effect on running backs and receivers fumbling downfield. That makes no logical, physical, scientific, or even supernatural sense. NONE
Of course it doesn’t make sense. He does come up with some beauties, doesn’t he?
 

Kceasthawk@77

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Feb 2, 2005
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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
Like I always say, "context" is important. Heck had one GOOD game against a team that could NOT stop our run game, or pass game. Moulton ran through them like crap through a goose. Heck had no pressure and threw to wide open WR's all night. Brown did not have the benefit of a strong run game against a MUCH better run defense, so he and Lester had to throw the run game open, which they did very effectively. Big difference. Plus fo however poorly he played at times against Michigan, he did in fact make several game winning throws in crunch time against a pretty good defense with very good DB's, in the big house. Better arm, and stays more composed.
 

squeezebox_1

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Several big time throws last week, and in the Michigan game (2 to RVZ) when we had to have them against very good DB's.
here we are yet again, how were those throws any different than anything that Heck put up against Washington? he hit the open receiver, but on plays like the Diaz long toss, that was a duck that Diaz came back for. Hitting the open Vonhamme was a great throw when the LB slipped, but RVZ was open for 6 on the same play. I'm not even going to go over the Michigan game, the last throw was absolutely clutch, but there was so much luck involved in that drive, not to mention hitting an open Diaz on the deep route that would have won the game. I don't see the separation in these QBs that many see, I think they are both extremely mid, and I want the hot hand in the game.
 

Burghawk87

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here we are yet again, how were those throws any different than anything that Heck put up against Washington? he hit the open receiver, but on plays like the Diaz long toss, that was a duck that Diaz came back for. Hitting the open Vonhamme was a great throw when the LB slipped, but RVZ was open for 6 on the same play. I'm not even going to go over the Michigan game, the last throw was absolutely clutch, but there was so much luck involved in that drive, not to mention hitting an open Diaz on the deep route that would have won the game. I don't see the separation in these QBs that many see, I think they are both extremely mid, and I want the hot hand in the game.
For someone who has the full field view, you seemed to miss that Hank got hit as he was throwing the pass to Diaz that was a duck. Also was that a check down?
 

Kceasthawk@77

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ok? Deacon Hill was 7-1 in the 2023 regular season.
I commented on YOU saying "I prefer whichever QB leads us to wins" Who would that be at this point? The only game that Hank started that we didn't win was OSU. Its pretty clear that the coaches decided by the ISU game that Hank was "overall" the best choice. I haven't seen anything to this point to think they're wrong.
 

squeezebox_1

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I commented on YOU saying "I prefer whichever QB leads us to wins" Who would that be at this point? The only game that Hank started that we didn't win was OSU. Its pretty clear that the coaches decided by the ISU game that Hank was "overall" the best choice. I haven't seen anything to this point to think they're wrong.
Well, I would say that OSU game would point to him not being the hot hand, but generally I can agree with you. Also wasn't a giant fan of Heck getting pulled in the Minnesota game, but I'm happy to debate that as well.
 

Burghawk87

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Hey ya got me on that sick burn, what about the others discussed?
Meh I'm just being an a$$, apologies. I agree both qbs have their respective issues but at least it appears they are actual qbs instead of a somehow less athletic lineman who also can't throw. I will never understand that season and I don't think anyone can accurately explain that nonsense. I'll take the nitpicking any day over that.
 

DrVenkman

Junior
Dec 31, 2023
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Heck played so well against wa and everyone was thrilled to the point he became starter against mn...only to totally sh^t the bed. Subsequently Hank started against wi and played very well indeed. But this train of events remains incomplete -- Hank has got to perform well in back to back games at the least for me to concede he is indeed the guy. Otherwise he wouldve merely accomplished what Heck already has. ie If hank screws up against NW he would've merely proven he and heck are neck and neck in unreliability and we might as well pull him in second half and try heck. Any flaw in this logic?
You and many others refuse to give Hank credit for winning in Ann Arbor. Curious as to why since so many Iowa QBs have had success up there.
 

squeezebox_1

All-Conference
Mar 6, 2018
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Meh I'm just being an a$$, apologies. I agree both qbs have their respective issues but at least it appears they are actual qbs instead of a somehow less athletic lineman who also can't throw. I will never understand that season and I don't think anyone can accurately explain that nonsense. I'll take the nitpicking any day over that.
I'd rather be getting blasted on here than listening to political **** all day long.
 

Kceasthawk@77

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Well, I would say that OSU game would point to him not being the hot hand, but generally I can agree with you. Also wasn't a giant fan of Heck getting pulled in the Minnesota game, but I'm happy to debate that as well.
I just think that the staff have seen enough of both guys after two years that they know when the wheels are coming off. Heck seems to get in a groove, but then when the wheels start coming off his play starts to go south. Actually I think we COULD have won the game with either guy, had we stopped turning the damn ball over and not been off sides on that goal line stand.
 

squeezebox_1

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I just think that the staff have seen enough of both guys after two years that they know when the wheels are coming off. Heck seems to get in a groove, but then when the wheels start coming off his play starts to go south. Actually I think we COULD have won the game with either guy, had we stopped turning the damn ball over and not been off sides on that goal line stand.
Fair, I think there are circumstances where the play calling is beyond bewildering as well. right before the end of the second half, that bootleg, throwback screen (no idea what the actual play is called) was not a great play call. Also, they need to utilize that read option a bit more, Hank ran the ball nicely. On the flip side, some of those early shovel passes, and option plays during the Minnesota game for Heck looked solid, but didn't net much for yards.
 

HawksRule73

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Hank engineered game winning drives against both ISU and Michigan in the same season. Not alot of Iowa QBs can say that. Banks, Tate, CJB, and Stanley can't say it. Under Ferentz, only Stanzi and Hank have done it. Then he damn near engineered another against Minnesota. He **** the bed against OSU, but he isn't the first Iowa QB to do it and he won't be the last. Hell, even Chuck Long **** the bed against OSU.

Heck has two problems currently. One, he doesn't have the arm strength to make all the requisite throws in Tim's offense....and #2, he hasn't developed the ability to flush bad plays. The guy was playing pretty decent up to the point he threw the INT, then he was like 1-8 after that. You could tell by his body language and facial expression that he still hadn't flushed that INT on the goal line. Good QBs can do it, he hasn't figured that out yet.
 

eyesofhawk

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WHAT?? how does using 2 qbs who make a clean handoff have any different effect on running backs and receivers fumbling downfield. That makes no logical, physical, scientific, or even supernatural sense. NONE
It’s football.

Fumbles can often signify being just a half step out of rhythm.

For much of the game, Iowa's offense had the deer in the headlights look. Meanwhile, Minnesota's D was playing with complete conviction. I will GUARANTEE if the presence of that dynamic were at all quantified into statistical form, it would show a higher rate of fumbles.

It seems Iowa lost some rhythm over the bye week. And Iowa's offense also would have had more rhythm had one qb been able to play all season.

Conviction, trust, leadership, familiarity, identity, roles, timing, rhythm, are all necessities in football. And they are best developed by having one qb. That's why every team tries to settle one one qb before the season starts.

When times get tough, a team falls back onto who they are. They know who they're going to turn to for plays. They know who they're going to turn to for leadership. They know who to trust. They know what they need to do, when they need to do it, and how they need to do it. They end up being familiar with who they are, and how to win.

But Iowa is just now starting to build that on offense. They couldn't fall back on who they were, in the Minnesota game, because they didn't yet know who they were.

They started pressing to try to make the big play themselves, rather than trusting that they could fall back onto who they were as a team. As a ball carrier, fighting for that extra yard can sometimes be lethal, in terms of fumbling.

These little creases can give a defense like Minnesota's a chance to impose their will, which usually happens by the team playing with more conviction. And it's not surprising that Minnesota was the much more veteran team. Of course leadership matters.

When a team is trying to impose its will, at some point you have to try to fight force with force. You think leadership matters in those moments?

I've seen many football teams that have a leader, that will that will take a guy who's fumbled by the collar, and straighten him out.
I've many football teams that have a leader, that will bring everybody together after a fumble for a pep talk. I know I'm not going to sit there and let my teammates fumble all game. Are you?

So yes, Iowa's offense is in the process of developing those roles, and leadership, familiarity, trust, timing, rhythm, identity. And that development will be able to accelerate if Iowa is able to be a one qb team going forward
 

Trakker

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The other thing to remember is that the qb position is the most unique position in team sports. You really cannot treat playing time like other positions.

If a rb has a fumble or two, he can sit him
If a db gets burned mult times you can bench him

But at the qb position more than any other, you often have to let your qb play thru adversity and struggle, sometimes at the cost of the team performance to be better in the long run. You cannot pull your qb everytime be struggles. Always a tough call how long to ride a qb, but you cannot expect them to rise in tough times if they are benched or looking over their shoulder constantly
 

Kceasthawk@77

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The other thing to remember is that the qb position is the most unique position in team sports. You really cannot treat playing time like other positions.

If a rb has a fumble or two, he can sit him
If a db gets burned mult times you can bench him

But at the qb position more than any other, you often have to let your qb play thru adversity and struggle, sometimes at the cost of the team performance to be better in the long run. You cannot pull your qb everytime be struggles. Always a tough call how long to ride a qb, but you cannot expect them to rise in tough times if they are benched or looking over their shoulder constantly
The other thing to remember is that the qb position is the most unique position in team sports. You really cannot treat playing time like other positions.

If a rb has a fumble or two, he can sit him
If a db gets burned mult times you can bench him

But at the qb position more than any other, you often have to let your qb play thru adversity and struggle, sometimes at the cost of the team performance to be better in the long run. You cannot pull your qb everytime be struggles. Always a tough call how long to ride a qb, but you cannot expect them to rise in tough times if they are benched or looking over their shoulder constantly
I do think playing them both in a couple of games hasn't been the best thing for either guy. Others may disagree, but I think if Hank hadn't been injured in the OSU game we're 7-1 right now, and we aren't having this discussion still.
 
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Kceasthawk@77

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Hank engineered game winning drives against both ISU and Michigan in the same season. Not alot of Iowa QBs can say that. Banks, Tate, CJB, and Stanley can't say it. Under Ferentz, only Stanzi and Hank have done it. Then he damn near engineered another against Minnesota. He **** the bed against OSU, but he isn't the first Iowa QB to do it and he won't be the last. Hell, even Chuck Long **** the bed against OSU.

Heck has two problems currently. One, he doesn't have the arm strength to make all the requisite throws in Tim's offense....and #2, he hasn't developed the ability to flush bad plays. The guy was playing pretty decent up to the point he threw the INT, then he was like 1-8 after that. You could tell by his body language and facial expression that he still hadn't flushed that INT on the goal line. Good QBs can do it, he hasn't figured that out yet.
I do remember Stanley had a 4 or 5 TD game in his first start I believe against ISU, and he threw the game winner in OT to ISM right inside the goal line. So I'd add him to that list.
 

r_desihawk

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You and many others refuse to give Hank credit for winning in Ann Arbor. Curious as to why since so many Iowa QBs have had success up there.
that drive particularly the last play was crucial in proving that hank can rise up to the occasion under duress. helped to completely flush the indiana miss of 2025. i suppose you are correct that hank has shown he can operate under pressure which his peer hasn’t
 

uihawk82

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here we are yet again, how were those throws any different than anything that Heck put up against Washington? he hit the open receiver, but on plays like the Diaz long toss, that was a duck that Diaz came back for. Hitting the open Vonhamme was a great throw when the LB slipped, but RVZ was open for 6 on the same play. I'm not even going to go over the Michigan game, the last throw was absolutely clutch, but there was so much luck involved in that drive, not to mention hitting an open Diaz on the deep route that would have won the game. I don't see the separation in these QBs that many see, I think they are both extremely mid, and I want the hot hand in the game.
that lame duck throw to Diaz last game was because Hank was being hit when he threw, hit straight into him, yet he got it just 5 yards short of diaz who adjusted. A real lame duck is a ball that is thrown clean but with nothing on it, maybe not spiraling, etc

Hank did a good job with trajectory on throws. I do think he is missing some deep open shots but those come open a bit later than a wide open receiver on a shorter route, like the first drive pass to DJV
 
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