OT again: For pilots, frequent flyers, etc. - I can't imagine this scenario (Learjet crash in FL)

[MtNittany]

Initial drop rate: The pilot radioed to air traffic control that they were descending at 10,000 feet per minute.

Overspeed acceleration: The descent quickly escalated past 20,000 feet per minute (with tracking data showing spikes up to 30,000 feet per minute).

Altitude loss: Flight data indicated the aircraft dropped roughly 27,000 feet in a single minute (or from around 35,000 feet to the ground in about one minute), traveling hundreds of miles per hour nearly straight down before the fatal impact that killed all nine people on board.

 

[Bosco2]

Damn!!!

 

[PSU Mike]

I almost wonder whether once the pilot knew they were going to die that they decided to make the ending as quick as possible.

 

[Big_O]

Supposed to be related to icing at altitude. They should never have flown into the stormy weather. They were diverting flights to Ft. Myers instead of heading to Miami.

 

[BobPSU92]

I saw the crash video skimming the news earlier today. Scary.

 

[Big_O]

I was looking at the still picture right before impact. Both wings are not visible (only a hint of one wing). I suspect one or both of the heavy, iced up wings snapped off when they encountered heavy turbulence. Obviously beyond the tolerances that the wings were designed to handle. The plane basically became a missile that could not be controlled in any manner. That’s probably why some of the ground observers thought a missile hit the ground.

 

[Midnighter]

I almost wonder whether once the pilot knew they were going to die that they decided to make the ending as quick as possible.

Maybe try somewhere that isn’t a highway? Crazy.

 

[BobPSU92]

 

[NittPicker]

I was looking at the still picture right before impact. Both wings are not visible (only a hint of one wing). I suspect one or both of the heavy, iced up wings snapped off when they encountered heavy turbulence. Obviously beyond the tolerances that the wings were designed to handle. The plane basically became a missile that could not be controlled in any manner. That’s probably why some of the ground observers thought a missile hit the ground.

I'm the furthest thing from being an engineer but I heard an interview of someone who knows infinity more than I do about this stuff. One point was the wings were still there, but the plane was travelling so fast that the frame rate of the camera was too slow to capture them clearly against a similar background. In addition, if the wing(s) were gone, the plane wouldn't have had such a straight trajectory. There likely would have been a yaw on one of the axes and the plane would have hit the ground at a sideways angle instead of nose down.

Also, people are talking about the audio as if the female was the pilot. She wasn't. She was the co-pilot and it's part of her duties to do the radio comms, among other things. The first officer was in control and was busy trying to fly the plane.

But again, I'm just a guy with no expertise. Just regurgitating what I heard.

 

[MtNittany]

Maybe try somewhere that isn’t a highway? Crazy.

The jet was traveling around 350 mph when it crashed, and they obviously had no control of it. No one on the ground was even injured, which is remarkable.

 

[Midnighter]

The jet was traveling around 350 mph when it crashed, and they obviously had no control of it. No one on the ground was even injured, which is remarkable.

Was responding to the idea that the pilot was looking to end things quickly. Remarkable no one was injured.

 

[MtNittany]

Was responding to the idea that the pilot was looking to end things quickly. Remarkable no one was injured.

If you listen to the full ATC audio, the pilot knew his fate. At one point he says "God bless everyone on board."

 

[PAstr]

The female was the first officer and was performing “pilot monitoring duties”

Jet aircraft have a minimum speed, below which it will stall. They also have a maximum speed, above which they experience “Mach tuck”.

as the jet climbs higher, the minimum speed increases and the maximum speed decreases. They converge at some point referred to as the coffin corner.

Staying below this altitude gives pilots the option to either speed up or slow down. When near this altitude, turbulence can increase or decrease airspeed to the point where either a stall occurs or Mach tuck occurs.

this aircraft appears to have experienced Mach tuck because of the immediate nose down attitude the pilots experienced.

Contributing to this, I think their radome may have become iced over because shortly before they became uncontrollable, they elected to turn into, as opposed to around, the largest storm cel. Ice on the radome makes the airborne radar almost useless.

in the final frames, it looks to me like the horizontal stabilizer is completely missing.

 

[Lil Nicky Scarfo]

Quick thoughts from my brother who’s been a private (recreational) pilot for about 30 years and is a volunteer for Angel Flights for about 20 years - so has a lot of flight time. He has also taken aerobatic classes that have you enter into stalls in order to know what to do to get yourself out of them.

I forwarded him a question from Reddit:

“Someone said: Learjet in a Mach over speed is unrecoverable”. If true, why?”

His response:

“Shock waves blanket control sufaces specifically elevators . Absolutely no way to recover from a stall. They were probably yanking and pushing like mad and doing nothing. Plus with actual moisture at that altitude you are talking supercooled droplets. Will turn entire plane into an icecube in seconds worst case. That’s another way to get into an unrecoverable. At that descent speed not enough time for ice to ablate in warmer atmosphere. Don’t fly into a ******* thunderstorm and don’t try to outclimb it.

The response to icing, to request a 2000 ft climb, is a by the book response to a normal ice encounter, though 4000 is usual. Up or down. But they should have recognized abnormal conditions.

Probably lots of hours as flight instructors in 172s not much real world flying experience except what they learned on job.”

 

[psuro]

Maybe try somewhere that isn’t a highway? Crazy.

I don't think the pilot had much of a chance as to where the plane will land, if the icing is the issue - I also don't agree with Mike about the pilot wanting to end it as soon as possible - pilots are trained to continue to fly the plane and he (assuming it's he) probably did.

 

[DaytonRickster]

I saw the crash video skimming the news earlier today. Scary.

It was and the sound of the incredibly rapid descent and impact.

 

[Big_O]

Local news here in Florida had an investigator stating that early evidence indicated that the aircraft had started to break up in the air. They are going to look aircraft parts that may have fallen along the flight path, although finding something is going to be quite difficult. A proverbial needle in a haystack.

 

[Bwifan]

Pilot from Limerick, PA strong faith heard saying the Lords Prayer near the end when they knew there was no chance of saving the plane. Going to be interesting to see what the true speed of that plane was as it doesn't reach terminal velocity and kept accelerating in the 60 degree pitch as it rocketed downward. That storm came over us and was insane. Kept exploding larger as it moved. Most likely why they asked to climb to.37k but didn't have enough info that storm tops were already at 47k. Fly right into the worst part of the storm. Add in the lift of water droplets in the core for icing as the storm exploded in strength they didn't have much of a chance. Storm exploded in strength went from 37 dbz to 54 dbz in little time some are saying it was a 1,000 year storm. Bless all their families including local girl who was co pilot from West Boca High who knowing what was coming still talked to the tower relaying information.

 

[Nittering Nabob]

Local news here in Florida had an investigator stating that early evidence indicated that the aircraft had started to break up in the air. They are going to look aircraft parts that may have fallen along the flight path, although finding something is going to be quite difficult. A proverbial needle in a haystack.

That makes more sense. Aircrafts frequently fly through cloud storms without suddenly icing to the point of crashing.

There has to be more to this story.

 

[Bwifan]

That makes more sense. Aircrafts frequently fly through cloud storms without suddenly icing to the point of crashing.

There has to be more to this story.

Not storms of this strength. Let alone punch the core. Numerous commercial pilots discussed how they flew around that storm due to its strength. Commercial planes have much better equipment warning them of these types of storms.

 

[Nittering Nabob]

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