OT: How much money does it take to have “17 you” money?

[ZombieKissinger]

Interested in perspectives

 

[bulldognation]

Dawgstudent money. He invented rule 17 after all.

 

[SteelCurtain74]

Depends on the hooker****

 

[YesIAmAPirate]

 

[jethreauxdawg]

My threshold for not caring about the response to my actions keeps getting lower. In about 10 more years I’ll probably consider tree fiddy to be 17U money.

 

[Colonel Angus.sixpack]

Someone once said that once you have about 5 million dollars you can’t spend it all unless you literally throw it away. Not sure I believe that but maybe. I think it’s closer to 25, 50 or maybe 100 million for true 17 you money

 

[ZombieKissinger]

Someone once said that once you have about 5 million dollars you can’t spend it all unless you literally throw it away. Not sure I believe that but maybe. I think it’s closer to 25, 50 or maybe 100 million for true 17 you money

I’m fairly young and am type A enough to where I’d probably come up with a number in my head where I’d feel comfortable retiring but when the time came actually want 20% so I don’t somehow run out at 70 with no ability to make more.

I think for $5 million you can definitely run out even without being too crazy with it (nicer trips, eating out at nice places, unexpected medical stuff), but you can also definitely feel pretty comfortable maintaining a normal lifestyle without working without too much risk. 4% rule is pretty conservative and would put income at $200k. If I ever hit $8-10m, I’d probably quit working. It’d probably take getting into the $25-50m range as you said for me to start spending a lot on crazy stuff.

 

[dawgstudent]

I think I could live off of 500K/year where I wouldn't have to worry about much. Like if I wanted to fly somewhere with my family for the weekend - I could get a plane ticket and not worry about it the week of.

So if I have $15 million in the bank - I'm good. I'd live off the return.

 

[Predestined]

17 with a lot of zeroes I suspect

 

[patdog]

Someone once said that once you have about 5 million dollars you can’t spend it all unless you literally throw it away. Not sure I believe that but maybe. I think it’s closer to 25, 50 or maybe 100 million for true 17 you money

$5,000,000 invested should yield about $400,000 annually. If you can’t live very comfortably on just the income you are throwing a lot of money away.

 

[theoriginalSALTYdog]

Interested in perspectives

Bigger question is, what amount do you have to have to live comfortably? I know we all have different lifestyles, needs, wants, etc. but in general what's the consensus? I'm 4 years from retirement and I keep wondering, how much is enough.

 

[johnson86-1]

$5,000,000 invested should yield about $400,000 annually. If you can’t live very comfortably on just the income you are throwing a lot of money away.

You can't reliably draw $400k from a $5,000,000 portfolio. More like $200k a year to make it highly likely you won't run out.

 

[FreeDawg]

$5,000,000 invested should yield about $400,000 annually. If you can’t live very comfortably on just the income you are throwing a lot of money away.

While this is true, he didn't say live comfortable money. He said 17 you money. I think $25-$30M is true 17 you money. You live off of 7 figs post tax and don't have to lift a finger anymore. You can start heavily contributing to local political races without making a dent in your nut and consolidate local power/pull. When you get to the point where you can make 1 phone call and any problem you have is fixed immediately, that is true 17 you money and influence.

 

[ckDOG]

Shouldn't we define what 17 you money can do before we put a number it?

 

[Yeti]

It’s north of 50 million

 

[johnson86-1]

Interested in perspectives

$10M. That's $350k a year at a 3.5% withdrawal rate, which I don't think would have ever failed in the modern era. Even assuming every dollar you draw is taxable, that's still $256k a year with 15% capital gains/qualified dividends tax and 5% state tax rate. So $21,333 a month. That's a good lifestyle. Not spend whatever you want lifestyle, but that's nice house, decent cars, a decent boat, and plenty of travel. I guess if you are starting from scratch and having to get into a house at today's inflated prices and 7% interest, that might be a little more constrained.

That said, $5M is 17 you money in the sense of you may still want to work to have the lifestyle you want (obviously living off $175k pretax is more than doable and is still in the grand scheme of things a great living), but you don't have to work any particular job or put up with much ********.

 

[RBcoach]

I have a 17 you attitude with 98 dollars in my bank account right now. Just wait till friday.

 

[johnson86-1]

Shouldn't we define what 17 you money can do before we put a number it?

I see two common definitions. Enough money to say 17 you to people at work because you don't have to have the income versus enough money to say 17 you to lots of people because you can be an *** hole and people will put up with it. Seems like most people are interpreting it as closer to the first one. For the second one, it's just a sliding scale. If you just want to go around being an *** hole but not having people jump in line for you, it's pretty close to the first definition. If you want to tell people to 17 themselves and them hop to and say yes sir, how hard, it just depends on how up the ladder you want to get that reaction.

 

[mcdawg22]

I don’t think ya’ll understand what 17 you money is. It is not betting 10k on the World Series. It’s Bruce Wayne being told he can’t put tables together at a restaurant, 17 you I own the restaurant. We are sold out of Dudy Noble lofts, 17 you here is 20 million dollars make it happen. I’d say it’s close to 500 million.

 

[johnson86-1]

Someone once said that once you have about 5 million dollars you can’t spend it all unless you literally throw it away. Not sure I believe that but maybe. I think it’s closer to 25, 50 or maybe 100 million for true 17 you money

Yea, depends on what you call throwing it away, but $5M definitely isn't that number anymore. Not much you can't outspend if you're into the right (or maybe wrong?) combination of planes/boats/real estate/women. But $25M is going to be hard to outspend without being stupid with a house note, plane, yacht, or drugs.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

While this is true, he didn't say live comfortable money. He said 17 you money. I think $25-$30M is true 17 you money. You live off of 7 figs post tax and don't have to lift a finger anymore. You can start heavily contributing to local political races without making a dent in your nut and consolidate local power/pull. When you get to the point where you can make 1 phone call and any problem you have is fixed immediately, that is true 17 you money and influence.

The idea that I would ever contribute to a politician or even have that on my list of things to do if I was rich is a completely foreign concept. Not dissing on you just interesting how far my ideas of good use of money are from yours (and undoubtedly many others)

 

[SchrodingersDawg]

I had 17 you money when I didn't have any money. It's only gotten worse with money.

 

[vhdawg]

Interested in perspectives

I know some people with no money who apparently have 17 you money.

 

[FreeDawg]

The idea that I would ever contribute to a politician or even have that on my list of things to do if I was rich is a completely foreign concept. Not dissing on you just interesting how far my ideas of good use of money are from yours (and undoubtedly many others)

I didn't say my idea per se, I was answering the original question of what is 17 you money. Which that in it's own is subjective.

I think true 17 you money comes with a certain amount of power you can use for convenience. If I help get local judges, tax collectors, sheriff, my congressmen, governor, etc... all contributed to at a high level then that buys me assistance ie answering the phone. It's really just networking. Knowing people and trading favors is what makes the world turn.

Do you want your attorney to be a nobody or know players everywhere they need to? Do you want your accountant to be a work from home number cruncher or someone who worked in the state audit office for 20 years and still has relationships in the building?

 

[PhredPhantom]

Don’t forget that you’ll need to add about 30%-60% to allow for whatever Wealth Tax the democrats will want to add if they ever get in power. That’s not for your future earnings; it’ll be for money you already have and paid taxes on when you initially earned it. It’s just another form of confiscation and wealth redistribution democrats use to buy votes. “You see that guy over there with some money? Vote for me and I’ll take some of his money away from him and give it to you.” Politicians are not dumb but they know that plenty of voters are.

 

[ckDOG]

Don’t forget that you’ll need to add about 30%-60% to allow for whatever Wealth Tax the democrats will want to add if they ever get in power. That’s not for your future earnings; it’ll be for money you already have and paid taxes on when you initially earned it. It’s just another form of confiscation and wealth redistribution democrats use to buy votes. “You see that guy over there with some money? Vote for me and I’ll take some of his money away from him and give it to you.” Politicians are not dumb but they know that plenty of voters are.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

Don’t forget that you’ll need to add about 30%-60% to allow for whatever Wealth Tax the democrats will want to add if they ever get in power. That’s not for your future earnings; it’ll be for money you already have and paid taxes on when you initially earned it. It’s just another form of confiscation and wealth redistribution democrats use to buy votes. “You see that guy over there with some money? Vote for me and I’ll take some of his money away from him and give it to you.” Politicians are not dumb but they know that plenty of voters are.

I know a multi-billionaire major democratic donor. He usually gets to weigh in on some of the policy, but when Kamala came up with a plan for taxation on unrealized gains, he and his friends freaked out because of how dumb that is. He was like “Personal tax should be based on cash receipt” and “if you do this, I’m just going to move all the assets I can into real estate as an exempt class, but you’re going to tank all startup funding.” They killed it in the background within a week

 

[champdawg.sixpack]

What can a person making 10 mil a year buy that someone making 5 mil a year can’t?

 

[ckDOG]

I don’t think ya’ll understand what 17 you money is. It is not betting 10k on the World Series. It’s Bruce Wayne being told he can’t put tables together at a restaurant, 17 you I own the restaurant. We are sold out of Dudy Noble lofts, 17 you here is 20 million dollars make it happen. I’d say it’s close to 500 million.

Let's go with this scenario. Paying people you don't know for touchdowns. Assume KT is getting 8M to go to the U next year. You don't even like NIL but you love MSU so you say "nah, here's 10, you are staying" and don't think twice about it. If I'm worth 500M in that scenario I guess I could see myself doing that. But I'd probably need to be closer to a billion to start writing 10 million dollar checks to strangers for touchdowns.

So I'll go with 17 you money = writing a check with 7 zeroes on it and not caring where it goes. I'll need a billy for that.

 

[ckDOG]

What can a person making 10 mil a year buy that someone making 5 mil a year can’t?

Better football coaches and players.

 

[mstateglfr]

What can a person making 10 mil a year buy that someone making 5 mil a year can’t?

They can quite literally buy more of whatever the poor person making only $5MM buys.

 

[johnson86-1]

What can a person making 10 mil a year buy that someone making 5 mil a year can’t?

If you're making $10M a year, you can have a nice turbo prop and a dedicated pilot. Possibly not the smartest thing to do if you can't run it through the business as that's still going to be 15% to 20% of after tax earnings, but it's certainly doable while still saving a **** ton so that you could potentially keep the plan when you stop working. At $5M, you can still do it, but you'd be spending between 33% and 41% of your after tax earning on your annual plane expenses.

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I didn't say my idea per se, I was answering the original question of what is 17 you money. Which that in it's own is subjective.

I think true 17 you money comes with a certain amount of power you can use for convenience. If I help get local judges, tax collectors, sheriff, my congressmen, governor, etc... all contributed to at a high level then that buys me assistance ie answering the phone. It's really just networking. Knowing people and trading favors is what makes the world turn.

Do you want your attorney to be a nobody or know players everywhere they need to? Do you want your accountant to be a work from home number cruncher or someone who worked in the state audit office for 20 years and still has relationships in the building?

Oligarch in training.****

 

[horshack.sixpack]

I know a multi-billionaire major democratic donor. He usually gets to weigh in on some of the policy, but when Kamala came up with a plan for taxation on unrealized gains, he and his friends freaked out because of how dumb that is. He was like “Personal tax should be based on cash receipt” and “if you do this, I’m just going to move all the assets I can into real estate as an exempt class, but you’re going to tank all startup funding.” They killed it in the background within a week

Exactly. The constant fear narrative around these fringe cases is always entertaining to me. Nobody is passing a 60% wealth tax to funnel $$$ into buying elections. But as long as my side is stirring it up as a valid fear, I shall parrot it widely. What's more likely to happen is a combination of US reduced world influence and economic strength leading to some tragic potential choices about how we stay solvent. You can rest assured that both parties will kick that time bomb down the road until our choice dwindle down to the least favorable possible outcome...

 

[johnson86-1]

I know a multi-billionaire major democratic donor. He usually gets to weigh in on some of the policy, but when Kamala came up with a plan for taxation on unrealized gains, he and his friends freaked out because of how dumb that is. He was like “Personal tax should be based on cash receipt” and “if you do this, I’m just going to move all the assets I can into real estate as an exempt class, but you’re going to tank all startup funding.” They killed it in the background within a week

That works for now, but eventually with all the politicians throwing out red meat to their base that they never actually intend to act on will get them primaried or replaced by people dumb enough to want to implement it.

Plus throw in the fact that within a decade, the question is going to be do we want to cut social security or medicare, raise taxes on wages, or do a wealth tax hitting people with at least $5M net worth or more, and you're not going to have adults suddenly take charge after being largely absent for 50 years.

 

[champdawg.sixpack]

They can quite literally more of whatever the poor person making only $5MM buys.

I think a bank will loan the 5 mil guy just as much as the 10 mil guy.

 

[ZombieKissinger]

I think a bank will loan the 5 mil guy just as much as the 10 mil guy.

I’m no banker, but I think they objectively wouldn’t

 

[horshack.sixpack]

That works for now, but eventually with all the politicians throwing out red meat to their base that they never actually intend to act on will get them primaried or replaced by people dumb enough to want to implement it.

Plus throw in the fact that within a decade, the question is going to be do we want to cut social security or medicare, raise taxes on wages, or do a wealth tax hitting people with at least $5M net worth or more, and you're not going to have adults suddenly take charge after being largely absent for 50 years.

This is the saddest part. I still think that some kind of federal consumption tax would solve some ills; at a minimum, anyone buying anything in the country would be contributing to the pie. That won't solve the problem of who is slicing the pie, but angst over <insert name of people group here> freeloading would have less basis.

 

[PhredPhantom]

Here’s a crazy idea:
Cut Spending
Cut Waste (DOGE)
Cut Fraud (DOGE)
Cut Taxes

 

[Dawgbite]

Bigger question is, what amount do you have to have to live comfortably? I know we all have different lifestyles, needs, wants, etc. but in general what's the consensus? I'm 4 years from retirement and I keep wondering, how much is enough.

There’s so many variables that it’s different for everyone. The 4% rule is for the first year of retirement, it has to increase each year to cover inflation. I’m 60 and what I need to withdraw just to cover expenses almost triples by the time I’m 80 compared to 60. It also depends on how comfortable you are with debt. I personally retired with zero debt and my intention is to never have any but I know people who retired with debt they will not live long enough to repay and it doesn’t hinder their lifestyle as long as they can make the payments. I’m not wired that way.