Burroughs asked about coaching at Iowa

[Nashville_Hawk]

Multiple teams? Based on current rankings PSU has about a 12% chance of 10 AA's. The next closest is OSU with >1%. VTech and Ohio State check in at 0.0004%. Its a little early to declare multiple teams.

You are the ultimate stat guy my friend! Always enjoy your input!

 

[FlyingLion]

Did some digging this morning....

Yeah. Rutgers has some serious cash money. Whenever Goodale decides to stop sucking and hand over the job - they're going to have the money to entice JB AND fund an RTC.

If that is accurate, why would they be waiting for Goodale to make the call?

Get an agreement in place with Burroughs and move on.

 

[vhsalum]

If that is accurate, why would they be waiting for Goodale to make the call?

Get an agreement in place with Burroughs and move on.

It’s an Olympic sport. ADs dont give a sht.

Bono still has a job even after Askren met with the AD and gave him the hard truth.

 

[WhiteDog125]

Oh no, another team trophy in the current climate of “super teams,” guess I better hang it up.

getting 4th or 5th now is not what it was 10 years ago. These teams are stacked, you need 10 AA to be in the conversation. Not too long ago, that was unheard of… now there are multiple teams with the possibility of 10 AA, multiple champs, etc.

Cornell got 2nd a few years back with like 72 points. Now 72 points is not even top like 8 lol.

its a different time guys…

Well yeah… and it’s also partly toms fault…that’s what some of you guys have refused to acknowledge the last 15 or more years. Also Iowa got 2nd a few years back with similar numbers. It’s year to year.

 

[MSU158]

The state of the program is that it is not even close to being competitive for a national title. When a program is getting beat by about a hundred points and has two years in a row of record-breaking dual losses the state of the program is egregiously unacceptable.

The “state of the program” argument is so dug in on this site that even I don’t feel like arguing it anymore. However, can you at least stick to TRUTHS when saying it is “egregiously unacceptable”? How exactly did they have record dual meet losses 2 seasons in a row?

First off, Iowa had a total of ONE dual meet loss in the 24-25 season. Their ONLY loss was to the #1 team that set the scoring record that season. They beat 5 top 10 teams including the #2 and #3 teams in the country.

In the 25-26 season they DID have 6 dual meet losses. But, that isn’t even a record. In the 05-06 season under Zalesky they lost 7 times with embarrassing losses to my Alma Mater, Illinois, Penn State(weren’t remotely close to what they are now) and Nebraska(again not even close to what they are now).

Meanwhile, Iowa lost to tOSU twice and they actually had a monster dual meet team even though Iowa actually beat them at NCAA’s. They again lost to PSU and they, yet again broke their own scoring record. They lost to #2 OKState, whom they also beat. ISU finally broke their losing streak with probably their best dual meet team in 15+ seasons. Finally, their one “bad” dual meet loss was to Minnesota, still ranked 9th at the time, while wrestling with multiple starters out.

Still, that same season they again beat the #2 and #3 teams in the country. If you want to stick with them not being remotely competitive at NCAA’s with PSU and now, possibly, OKState. That is more than fair. But, the rest of it is pure gobbledygook…Mind you, they still had 9 guys in the R12 and 7 AA’s. So it truly isn’t that Iowa is “so bad” as it is how ridiculously good PSU is and OkState is most likely becoming. There ARE prior seasons where that performance would have even been good enough to win NCAA’s…

 

[GLC1969]

Ok let’s say top 5 is the new Iowa peak. How many years before it top 10 or 4 AAs. Look at Minnesota for the recipe. keep looking at the past thats not iowas future

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

And I would still hire Pritzlaff the guy can coach

If he was that good of a coach he wouldn’t have been an assistant for 22 years, and his first opportunity would be somewhere better than Columbia.

 

[MSU158]

Ok let’s say top 5 is the new Iowa peak. How many years before it top 10 or 4 AAs. Look at Minnesota for the recipe. keep looking at the past thats not iowas future

But that isn’t even CLOSE to what is happening. Iowa is still putting out top 2 or 3 AA’s every season. That is NEVER going to drop then past top 5ish. The REAL issue is how top heavy PSU consistently is and OkState looks to be trending towards.

We simply aren’t talking about some big Iowa fall off. The true issue is that we are seeing a super team at an unprecedented level. If OkState can come close to matching that there may not even be room for a 3rd team. The simple truth is there is NOT that much elite talent and both teams seem to be stockpiling nearly all of it.

As I said before, I am done arguing against those that simply want to be truly competitive for team titles. With what PSU currently is, I don’t see it any time soon. Even OkState is still way behind a back to back record setting team.

Maybe JB can do what it takes to build that kind of a room. However, he is NOT going to do it with the current money disparity between the 3 programs. Your hate for Brands has made you blind if you don’t see that part. If JB does become the guy, I hope he can get whomever is needed to open the pocket books to an even level. If THAT happens even a Brand diehard like me could get behind him in a few years…

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Okay, let’s say 8 AA then. How many teams looking at 8 AA?

There are 18 teams with 8 or more wrestlers in the Intermat pre-season rankings. Of those 2 have a realistic shot at 8 AA's (pending inclusion of freshmen):

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

The “state of the program” argument is so dug in on this site that even I don’t feel like arguing it anymore. However, can you at least stick to TRUTHS when saying it is “egregiously unacceptable”? How exactly did they have record dual meet losses 2 seasons in a row?

First off, Iowa had a total of ONE dual meet loss in the 24-25 season. Their ONLY loss was to the #1 team that set the scoring record that season. They beat 5 top 10 teams including the #2 and #3 teams in the country.

In the 25-26 season they DID have 6 dual meet losses. But, that isn’t even a record. In the 05-06 season under Zalesky they lost 7 times with embarrassing losses to my Alma Mater, Illinois, Penn State(weren’t remotely close to what they are now) and Nebraska(again not even close to what they are now).

Meanwhile, Iowa lost to tOSU twice and they actually had a monster dual meet team even though Iowa actually beat them at NCAA’s. They again lost to PSU and they, yet again broke their own scoring record. They lost to #2 OKState, whom they also beat. ISU finally broke their losing streak with probably their best dual meet team in 15+ seasons. Finally, their one “bad” dual meet loss was to Minnesota, still ranked 9th at the time, while wrestling with multiple starters out.

Still, that same season they again beat the #2 and #3 teams in the country. If you want to stick with them not being remotely competitive at NCAA’s with PSU and now, possibly, OKState. That is more than fair. But, the rest of it is pure gobbledygook…Mind you, they still had 9 guys in the R12 and 7 AA’s. So it truly isn’t that Iowa is “so bad” as it is how ridiculously good PSU is and OkState is most likely becoming. There ARE prior seasons where that performance would have even been good enough to win NCAA’s…

What he meant was two years in a row they lost by a record amount to PSU. One a record for Carver (32-2), one a record for away (30-8).

 

[MSU158]

What he meant was two years in a row they lost by a record amount to PSU. One a record for Carver (32-2), one a record for away (30-8).

If so, that means WAY less to me than what I originally took it as. We would then be talking about losses to a team setting the scoring record 2 seasons in a row. It’s not like they were getting blown out by a pretty good team or even a great team. We are talking about possibly the 2 best teams of ALL TIME.

That says way more about how good PSU is than Iowa being in any way bad. Especially when you use “egregiously unacceptable”….

Also, since you are absolutely the stat guy, were any teams more competitive with PSU? I am not just saying the actual team score, but the matches themselves. Maybe a team matched up better at 1 or 2 weights and snuck in an extra win, but how many were even as competitive with PSU at all 10 weights? Did they even do it against the PSU lineup they put out against Iowa or when they sat a couple guys?

In this case context matters a lot….

 

[Timmyd6]

What I'm saying is Jordan is not the surefire solution that David Taylor was. David Taylor was a lock to make Oklahoma State better and top level competitive. Not sure if Jordan fits that bill. You think he is, so more power to you. And by the way, looks like Taylor is doing very good at Okie State without those private school New Jersey kids.

Maybe not but we definitely know brands is not.

 

[Corby2]

If he was that good of a coach he wouldn’t have been an assistant for 22 years, and his first opportunity would be somewhere better than Columbia.

He had many opportunities but he liked the roles he was in. I have watched him in the room a few times and the guy can coach. I have also spoken with a few athletes that he's coached who have been around some of the best and they praise him left and right.

 

[VonEhwegen]

If that is accurate, why would they be waiting for Goodale to make the call?

Get an agreement in place with Burroughs and move on.

Exactly, Obviously Goodale hasn't panned out there (To be fair you have to have the RESOURCES and kids to be successful". These guys act like Rutgers is just keeping him out of the kindness of their heart. If they had a shot at JB, "chance to restart the program" Goodale would be gone. They wouldn't care about 1-2 years left on his contract. JB becoming head coach would hype up the program for couple years and bring in way more money that it would cost to buy out Goodale remaining contract.

 

[Corby2]

Exactly, Obviously Goodale hasn't panned out there (To be fair you have to have the RESOURCES and kids to be successful". These guys act like Rutgers is just keeping him out of the kindness of their heart. If they had a shot at JB, "chance to restart the program" Goodale would be gone. They wouldn't care about 1-2 years left on his contract. JB becoming head coach would hype up the program for couple years and bring in way more money that it would cost to buy out Goodale remaining contract.

The university won't be the one paying him donors will. Not sure how people are missing that point. Also he just started coming around more this summer and he's been saying he wants to coach now when in the past he said he didn't. Some of us aren't just typing to type .

 

[VonEhwegen]

It’s an Olympic sport. ADs dont give a sht.

Bono still has a job even after Askren met with the AD and gave him the hard truth.

Askren is a moron, there's a reason he has never taken the next step and coached anywhere. All he does is talk **** about Iowa, if Iowa called and offered him the HC job, he would take it in a minute. Blows my mind all these fans want Ben as a coach at Iowa when all he has done is **** on them. His best kid can't beat an Iowa guy . Bet that tears him up.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Askren is a moron, there's a reason he has never taken the next step and coached anywhere. All he does is talk **** about Iowa, if Iowa called and offered him the HC job, he would take it in a minute. Blows my mind all these fans want Ben as a coach at Iowa when all he has done is **** on them. His best kid can't beat an Iowa guy . Bet that tears him up.

Huh? Mesenbrink is doing fine against Iowa. And everyone else.

 

[VonEhwegen]

The university won't be the one paying him donors will. Not sure how people are missing that point. Also he just started coming around more this summer and he's been saying he wants to coach now when in the past he said he didn't. Some of us aren't just typing to type .

Personally, I would want JB to have coaching experience before Iowa offering him a job. 2-3 years at Rutgers good, see what he can actually produce and learn the ropes. Before the Donors just open up the checkbook and write him million dollars check and say, "Here it's all yours now, clean house". AD will NOT fire Brands, they will retire and id imagine they have a hand in selecting the next coach as well.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Huh? Mesenbrink is doing fine against Iowa. And everyone else.

Correct, MM wasn't the recruit Sinclair was coming out of HS though. Which is when ben had them

 

[Corby2]

Personally, I would want JB to have coaching experience before Iowa offering him a job. 2-3 years at Rutgers good, see what he can actually produce and learn the ropes. Before the Donors just open up the checkbook and write him million dollars check and say, "Here it's all yours now, clean house". AD will NOT fire Brands, they will retire and id imagine they have a hand in selecting the next coach as well.

We agree on all of that

 

[McUSA]

Burroughs is the obvious choice. He has what DT has + personality, charisma, good energy. Perfect choice for the spotlight this program brings. Perfect choice for drawing in donors. A refreshing choice. He will unite the fanbase. After all, this is the guy that put his arm around an Iranian and drew fans and cheers from other countries. Beloved by everyone except PSU fans which puts a damn exclamation point on it.

 

[McUSA]

Personally, I would want JB to have coaching experience before Iowa offering him a job. 2-3 years at Rutgers good, see what he can actually produce and learn the ropes. Before the Donors just open up the checkbook and write him million dollars check and say, "Here it's all yours now, clean house". AD will NOT fire Brands, they will retire and id imagine they have a hand in selecting the next coach as well.

We agree on all of that

Osu fans would not agree. With that line of thinking, Coleman Scott would be leading that program, the Raneys would be in our lineup, and we would be in the conversation for runner up.

 

[Corby2]

Osu fans would not agree. With that line of thinking, Coleman Scott would be leading that program, the Raneys would be in our lineup, and we would be in the conversation for runner up.

I think it would've been Pendleton over Coleman without Chad getting involved like he did and going after DT.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Osu fans would not agree. With that line of thinking, Coleman Scott would be leading that program, the Raneys would be in our lineup, and we would be in the conversation for runner up.

In order for JB to have the success DT did right away, it would require the Donors to open their checkbooks to bring in the guys okie st did. I don't see that happening, the first couple years of DT's coaching and you have any idea what has cost in NIL . Any solid coach, can coach blue chippers and have success, especially how far developed the kids are now a days with all the international and such. Can't miss on portal guys either, ones you bring in have to hit. That has been one of Iowa's struggles, portal guys not living up to their hype

 

[VakAttack]

Burroughs is, in many ways, a perfect choice for Iowa. Breaking with the traditional model/style but without having to get a Penn State guy which I'm sure would have been hard for some in the fanbase to swallow.

 

[McUSA]

I think it would've been Pendleton over Coleman without Chad getting involved like he did and going after DT.

Either way that program / lineup is not what it is today. Osu made the obvious choice at the time and proved to be the right one.

 

[Stick Kitty]

Personally, I would want JB to have coaching experience before Iowa offering him a job. 2-3 years at Rutgers good, see what he can actually produce and learn the ropes. Before the Donors just open up the checkbook and write him million dollars check and say, "Here it's all yours now, clean house". AD will NOT fire Brands, they will retire and id imagine they have a hand in selecting the next coach as well.

In most sports like football & basketball.... yes, but not in wrestling. Get a guy that will bring in the johnnie's and the joe's and get an assistant who has that experience to help out with the off mat issues of being a head coach. Its such an individual sport that you are overthinking the X's & O's. The truly elite kids for the most part are already equipped with that from day one.

I'd even dare to say a Brands getting a guy like Jax Forrest and tinkering with him could make Jax worse off. Everyone on this board could sit in a folding chair holding a brick and coach Bo Basset.

 

[VonEhwegen]

In most sports like football & basketball.... yes, but not in wrestling. Get a guy that will bring in the johnnie's and the joe's and get an assistant who has that experience to help out with the off mat issues of being a head coach. Its such an individual sport that you are overthinking the X's & O's. The truly elite kids for the most part are already equipped with that from day one.

I'd even dare to say a Brands getting a guy like Jax Forrest and tinkering with him could make Jax worse off. Everyone on this board could sit in a folding chair holding a brick and coach Bo Basset.

You have your opinion and I have mine, I personally wouldn't want to bring a guy in with zero experience and zero connections to the school and just hand them the keys. If JB had been activly training at HWC or involved in it in a way. Totally differnt

 

[BrianLafevre]

Iowa needs to make a play for Burroughs. He is the only apparent guy that can move the needle to improve Iowa’s position to get better recruits and woo big $ donors.

The program is incredibly stale and has been for some time. Anyone counting on the next few recruiting classes to make a dent is going to be in for disappointment.

 

[LIV4GOD]

The “state of the program” argument is so dug in on this site that even I don’t feel like arguing it anymore. However, can you at least stick to TRUTHS when saying it is “egregiously unacceptable”? How exactly did they have record dual meet losses 2 seasons in a row?

Yes, you love to argue. Yes, I can stick to TRUTHS when saying it is "egregiously unacceptable." I did.

I was referencing where we had two duals in the last two years that broke records as far as being record margins of loss in the modern era (ten weights). These were our last two duals against PSU.

My "egregiously unacceptable" was first stated concerning not being competitive for a national title. We're not. And it's also egregiously unacceptable to lose duals in which we are not even competitive . . . no real chance to win, and lose in record fashion.

I found most of your post irrelevant. I don't care if we're top five, but yet have no real chance at a title or beating Penn State in a dual. I find the CURRENT state of the program unacceptable, and I suspect the majority of Hawk fans agree with me. You may disagree. I don't care. And I'm not responding to any further response you give. I'm not feeding the arguing machine any more than this.

 

[McUSA]

You have your opinion and I have mine, I personally wouldn't want to bring a guy in with zero experience and zero connections to the school and just hand them the keys. If JB had been activly training at HWC or involved in it in a way. Totally differnt

You realize this take sounds really dumb considering Osu did just that.

 

[BrianLafevre]

You realize this take sounds really dumb considering Osu did just that.

And PSU with Carl before that. And Gable with Iowa before that…

 

[VonEhwegen]

You realize this take sounds really dumb considering Osu did just that.

Iowa isn't OSU???? What does that have to do with Iowa what another college did? Because it worked one time, means it's going to work every time for every school??? Everyone does realize okie st is working because they are spending millions in NIL to get the studs right??

 

[Stick Kitty]

And PSU with Carl before that. And Gable with Iowa before that…

ISU told Booby Douglas to retire for Cael to be the head coach as they were afraid he would jump to Ohio St when that job was last open. Correct call for ISU then even though they couldn't retain. But imagine had Cael taken over Ohio St instead of Tom Ryan. They would be the machine now and PSU, not so much.

Gable was an assistant under Kurdlemieir for a bit.

But I am not saying it cant be done. Again overestimating coaching experience for a niche sport. It would be much harder for major sports that arent so individually based. It's niave to think a world name like JB hasnt been around great coaches and in good rooms his whole life. He know what it looks like and what it takes.

A better example closer to home would be Fred Hoiberg. Only experience was a former NBA player. Pollard hired him but also brought in Terry Carroll- longtime head coach- to help guide him his first few years.

If JB brings in say Dlagnev & Kokesh with another experienced coach or not, maybe James Green..maybe even keep Spencer Lee or Warner? Do you feel better?

 

[McUSA]

Iowa isn't OSU???? What does that have to do with Iowa what another college did? Because it worked one time, means it's going to work every time for every school??? Everyone does realize okie st is working because they are spending millions in NIL to get the studs right??

Okey dokey young lad. You do you man. Maybe M* or Warner will be ready to take over when Brands retires.