How good is Christian Gurdak going to be this season?

[Caliknight]

The point is only that you can easily tell from a scrimmage when someone’s defense is PJ Hayes like as well as when someone has potential to be a plus defender.

It was very clear to me watching this game that perimeter defense is still going to be a problem for Kaden Powers, lack of full intensity or not.

There is a lot to be gleaned from scrimmages. But they aren't real games which was Chet's point. Not even close honestly.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

There is a lot to be gleaned from scrimmages. But they aren't real games which was Chet's point. Not even close honestly.

I don’t believe that was what was being disputed to start. It was the comments about scrimmages involving gentleman’s agreements not to play tough defense contesting shots. Simply not true. Scrimmages clearly arent the same as real games. Players may take more chances (like a center who never took one 3 last year launching 3 of them). Substitution patterns are different. And schemes are experimented with. The list goes on - but the one thing that is always false is that the players on the court aren’t giving their all. Rotations aren’t set yet in pre-season scrimmages and practices. Everyone is out there proving themselves and if that’s not possible they are sitting out like Tariq.

 

[goru7]

You do know Gurdack took zero 3s for VTech last year, yes? I don’t think he’s exactly known for his 3 point shooting. Enough with this “form” stuff. We’re still waiting for Kaden’s wonderful “form” to translate into more efficient shooting, for example.

In the case of big men, when they attempt a 3 from the top of the key it means we have one less rebounder down low.

Have you watched Wisconsin or Illinois the last few years. Stretch 4 and 5’s shoot and make impactful threes. Are you telling me you never want to see Gurdack shoot a 3 ? Common now , this isn’t 1960

 

[seansherm]

Have you watched Wisconsin or Illinois the last few years. Stretch 4 and 5’s shoot and make impactful threes. Are you telling me you never want to see Gurdack shoot a 3 ? Common now , this isn’t 1960

Did you see the three he took? They weren't close. I wish he'd made one to give the impression he was a threat from out there. Right now he isn't.

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

That is the problem with watching highlights. You miss the action. Lino will be the fastest player on the court in any game we play . He didn’t finish a couple of drives but he threatens the defense every time he drives . He had 5 assists and would have had 2 more if Gurdack held onto the passes when he was driving. He was running the offense getting the ball to the other scorers but also looking to attack. I tend to believe he will make that sophomore leap that will help us tremendously. All the more defensive attention paid to him will free up more open looks for Francis and others. Your if hesitancy is happening right in front of your eyes. Enjoy.

hope you’re right

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Have you watched Wisconsin or Illinois the last few years. Stretch 4 and 5’s shoot and make impactful threes. Are you telling me you never want to see Gurdack shoot a 3 ? Common now , this isn’t 1960

So your actually saying with a straight face that every big man should launch deep balls? Did you want that from ogbole? Come on. There’s a reason he’s never attempted one and was left wide open.

Gurdak attempted three times as many 3s in the scrimmage than Cliff took the entire season at Alabama…

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Did you see the three he took? They weren't close. I wish he'd made one to give the impression he was a threat from out there. Right now he isn't.

Didn’t you know - he has great form.

 

[seansherm]

Didn’t you know - he has great form.

Its funny though, when he took them I was surprised his form did look good. Not that it means anything for his accuracy.

 

[goru7]

So your actually saying with a straight face that every big man should launch deep balls? Did you want that from ogbole? Come on. There’s a reason he’s never attempted one and was left wide open.

Gurdak attempted three times as many 3s in the scrimmage than Cliff took the entire season at Alabama…

Stop being snarky and
read what was posted. A lot of teams not all have bigs that can shoot threes. A lot of teams play 5 out. It is a weapon. Now you interject a dumb thought that I wanted Ogbole to take threes. I never said that you placed in your thread . Not everything is black and white there is a ton of grey. Despite you making fun of it , Gurdack has good form and being at the game it appeared to me he would make one of the 3 he took but more importantly he showed confidence taking them. We run our offense or ran it that game with Gurdack having the ball at the top of the key . We likely will run a pick and pop with him this year so don’t be suprised when you see it again . We have. Center that appears to have a decent low post game and can actually shoot and might occasionally make a 3 when we need it. We have never had that , so enjoy it , instead of being a stubborn and arguing for the sake of it.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Stop being snarky and
read what was posted. A lot of teams not all have bigs that can shoot threes. A lot of teams play 5 out. It is a weapon. Now you interject a dumb thought that I wanted Ogbole to take threes. I never said that you placed in your thread . Not everything is black and white there is a ton of grey. Despite you making fun of it , Gurdack has good form and being at the game it appeared to me he would make one of the 3 he took but more importantly he showed confidence taking them. We run our offense or ran it that game with Gurdack having the ball at the top of the key . We likely will run a pick and pop with him this year so don’t be suprised when you see it again . We have. Center that appears to have a decent low post game and can actually shoot and might occasionally make a 3 when we need it. We have never had that , so enjoy it , instead of being a stubborn and arguing for the sake of it.

Dude come on - if Gurdak had any ability whatsoever to be a good 3 point shooter who should be launching 3 attempts a game (out of only 17 total) - don’t you think his coach at VTech would’ve green lighted at least one attempt last season? Come on man. Just admit your wrong here. Gurdak will not be taking 18% of our 3 point attempts in a real game - not ever. And as Sean pointed out - his attempts weren’t even close to going down - “good form” or not.

The math is pretty simple. 50% on 2s (and Gurdak will be at least around that) is better than under 30% on 3s. And there is no basis whatsoever right now to assume Gurdak will do better than that from long range.

 

[Zebnatto1!]

These are scrimmages. Now is the time to let Gurdak let fly from the top of the key and see if he can hit a few. If he can’t, you turn the green light red, but if he can, it’s a major boost to the offense, forcing their big to come out to guard him rather than remain down low, where he can help at the rim. The goal is to open up the floor. Shoot them in scrimmages and the hoped for early season blowouts.

 

[RUfan1977]

Dude come on - if Gurdak had any ability whatsoever to be a good 3 point shooter who should be launching 3 attempts a game (out of only 17 total) - don’t you think his coach at VTech would’ve green lighted at least one attempt last season? Come on man. Just admit your wrong here. Gurdak will not be taking 18% of our 3 point attempts in a real game - not ever. And as Sean pointed out - his attempts weren’t even close to going down - “good form” or not.

The math is pretty simple. 50% on 2s (and Gurdak will be at least around that) is better than under 30% on 3s. And there is no basis whatsoever right now to assume Gurdak will do better than that from long range.

Whether a center will take 3s is very much a coach’s decision. At Purdue, Zach Edey took one 3 point attempt in his career there which he made. In his first year in the NBA he took fifty two 3 point attempts making almost 35% of them.

I don’t think we know yet whether Gurdak can make 3s. If you base everything on one exhibition game only Smith and Mark should take 3s.

 

[seels2662]

Oh I can't believe I missed this thread

I said this all summer this player is going to be a STEAL and one of the best players on the team. Maybe even the best. You just had to look at some of his numbers from last year

2 for 2, 5 pts against South Carolina in 6 min
1 for 1 against Louisville
4 for 4, 11 points against Georgia Tech
2 for 2 against NC State
3 for 3, 6 points against Miami in 13 min
5 for 5, 10 points against Wake in 16 min
2 for 2 against North Carolina

In case you are counting, thats a combined 19 for 19 on the floor. That's 7 P4 teams against P4 centers where in certain situations, he didn't miss. Is he Shaq? Nope. Does he shoot like KAT? Nope. But he knows how to put himself in favorable situations to score. I'm not sure how he's going to fare defensively at first against a strong big man, and I noticed that hes so confident on how good his hands are sometimes he tries to grab a rebound with one hand and that's not going to fly in the bloodbath that is the paint in a B1G basketball game. But I think with increased minutes this year, he's going to score a ton for us.

 

[seansherm]

Oh I can't believe I missed this thread

I said this all summer this player is going to be a STEAL and one of the best players on the team. Maybe even the best. You just had to look at some of his numbers from last year

2 for 2, 5 pts against South Carolina in 6 min
1 for 1 against Louisville
4 for 4, 11 points against Georgia Tech
2 for 2 against NC State
3 for 3, 6 points against Miami in 13 min
5 for 5, 10 points against Wake in 16 min
2 for 2 against North Carolina

In case you are counting, thats a combined 19 for 19 on the floor. That's 7 P4 teams against P4 centers where in certain situations, he didn't miss. Is he Shaq? Nope. Does he shoot like KAT? Nope. But he knows how to put himself in favorable situations to score. I'm not sure how he's going to fare defensively at first against a strong big man, and I noticed that hes so confident on how good his hands are sometimes he tries to grab a rebound with one hand and that's not going to fly in the bloodbath that is the paint in a B1G basketball game. But I think with increased minutes this year, he's going to score a ton for us.

Your things above are meaningless though. Those are all put backs and lay ups, not him being offensively aggressive. Almost any center can do that if all there attempts are open at the rim. He wasn't putting up 8ft push shots last year. He didn't attempt a three. He took one shot every 6 minutes in ACC play (64% on 65 shots), EO took one every 7 minutes in B1G play (62% on 63 shots). EO went 15-16 against Wisconsin, UCLA, Nebraska, Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois.

He will score much more if he's aggressive offensively like he was in the first scrimmage. We know CG is much more offensively talented, if he ups his shooting rate to one every 1.8 minutes like he did in the scrimmage of course he'll score more. The 17-28 he went in the four games against Virginia and Wake tell you more than the seven games you mention. It's a sign of what he can do with usage.

 

[seels2662]

Your things above are meaningless though. Those are all put backs and lay ups, not him being offensively aggressive. Almost any center can do that if all there attempts are open at the rim. He wasn't putting up 8ft push shots last year. He didn't attempt a three. He took one shot every 6 minutes in ACC play (64% on 65 shots), EO took one every 7 minutes in B1G play (62% on 63 shots). EO went 15-16 against Wisconsin, UCLA, Nebraska, Iowa, Indiana, and Illinois.

He will score much more if he's aggressive offensively like he was in the first scrimmage. We know CG is much more offensively talented, if he ups his shooting rate to one every 1.8 minutes like he did in the scrimmage of course he'll score more. The 17-28 he went in the four games against Virginia and Wake tell you more than the seven games you mention. It's a sign of what he can do with usage.

Against South Carolina he had zero offense rebounds. Georgia Tech he only had one. Wake only 2. He is not getting putbacks. He is scoring. I could have shown the double digit games he had or the games where he had points in limited minutes. There a a hundred ways to show his stats they were all good last year. But he was only a freshman last year the the ball was not going through him so he wasn't scoring every 1.8 minutes. He probably won't score every 1.8 minutes this year because there are other reliable scoring options on this team like Francis. But what you saw in the scrimmage is what you will see all year in spots.

 

[RU677381]

The issue is whether he is a legitimate threat to score on threes. If so,
then the opps will need to guard him. If not, they will let him make 20% and have five on four.

 

[Zebnatto1!]

The issue is whether he is a legitimate threat to score on threes. If so,
then the opps will need to guard him. If not, they will let him make 20% and have five on four.

Right, and we can only find out if he takes them in scrimmages and noncompetitive games.

 

[GM]

I don’t mind Gurdak launching threes. If he made one of them that’s probably more expected points per possession (1.0) than some of our other play types. I assume he’s making it enough in practice for our coaches to green light them. I don’t think the shots were all that far off, being at the game they all had good rotation and hit rim at least. The transition D could be an issue with it ofc too as PSAL has pointed out. I guess what I’d tell Gurdak is only do it in cases where: 10 seconds or less and only above the break threes.

as for how he played at Virginia Tech vs here, I think we need to adjust the game film there to the player he is now. At VTech he was in way worse shape and relegated to a minimal offensive role. I think he’s clearly improved and now is able to take on more responsibility offensively. He’s the freshman to sophomore leap we’ve constantly seen our own players leave town before we reap the benefits. Gurdak is giving us redemption.

 

[seansherm]

Against South Carolina he had zero offense rebounds. Georgia Tech he only had one. Wake only 2. He is not getting putbacks. He is scoring. I could have shown the double digit games he had or the games where he had points in limited minutes. There a a hundred ways to show his stats they were all good last year. But he was only a freshman last year the the ball was not going through him so he wasn't scoring every 1.8 minutes. He probably won't score every 1.8 minutes this year because there are other reliable scoring options on this team like Francis. But what you saw in the scrimmage is what you will see all year in spots.

The baskets were still just dumpoffs at the rim or putbacks. They don't tell you or show you his offensive abilities like his games with more usage or played more.
Those weren't scoring #'s they were how often he took a shot. One every 1.8 minutes in the scrimmage vs one every 6 minutes in ACC play or the seven games you mention. He didn't shot hunt last year. In the scrimmage he showed signs of doing so.

 

[seansherm]

I don’t mind Gurdak launching threes. If he made one of them that’s probably more expected points per possession (1.0) than some of our other play types. I assume he’s making it enough in practice for our coaches to green light them. I don’t think the shots were all that far off, being at the game they all had good rotation and hit rim at least. The transition D could be an issue with it ofc too as PSAL has pointed out. I guess what I’d tell Gurdak is only do it in cases where: 10 seconds or less and only above the break threes.

as for how he played at Virginia Tech vs here, I think we need to adjust the game film there to the player he is now. At VTech he was in way worse shape and relegated to a minimal offensive role. I think he’s clearly improved and now is able to take on more responsibility offensively. He’s the freshman to sophomore leap we’ve constantly seen our own players leave town before we reap the benefits. Gurdak is giving us redemption.

No doubt on your second point. It will also depend on our offense, which hasn't featured or looked to the center for years. He's no doubt an offensive upgrade. How we use him will play a role in his effectiveness.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

These are scrimmages. Now is the time to let Gurdak let fly from the top of the key and see if he can hit a few. If he can’t, you turn the green light red, but if he can, it’s a major boost to the offense, forcing their big to come out to guard him rather than remain down low, where he can help at the rim. The goal is to open up the floor. Shoot them in scrimmages and the hoped for early season blowouts.

Yes - exactly. But even if he hits a 3 or two it still won’t mean to expect a high volume of attempts from him.

 

[SirScarlet]

Relative to our performance last year, I am surprised the comments in this thread aren't more positive

I am more encouraged than I was before seeing this team play...I will say that

The scrimmage tomorrow will be another good data point

 

[seansherm]

Relative to our performance last year, I am surprised the comments in this thread aren't more positive

I am more encouraged than I was before seeing this team play...I will say that

The scrimmage tomorrow will be another good data point

Have to remember we've seen close scrimmages before

 

[SirScarlet]

Have to remember we've seen close scrimmages before

For me seeing this with my own eyes versus hearing various reports and snippets is different. Plus while not a huge difference there's a difference between a scrimmage and an exhibition game.

I stand by my comments which are this is a good indication that our team this year will be better than last year. But tomorrow is also an important data point

 

[seansherm]

For me seeing this with my own eyes versus hearing various reports and snippets is different. Plus while not a huge difference there's a difference between a scrimmage and an exhibition game.

I stand by my comments which are this is a good indication that our team this year will be better than last year. But tomorrow is also an important data point

Wouldn't disagree.

 

[RUfan1977]

For me seeing this with my own eyes versus hearing various reports and snippets is different. Plus while not a huge difference there's a difference between a scrimmage and an exhibition game.

I stand by my comments which are this is a good indication that our team this year will be better than last year. But tomorrow is also an important data point

St. John’s should be a much tougher test. They have more players back and a better transfer class than Villanova and it’s on the road.

 

[RUfan1977]

Have to remember we've seen close scrimmages before

If Dylan Harper had been a little healthier during the season he was here with Ace things would have been a lot better. There also were huge warning signs by how St. John’s center killed us on the boards and looked like a super star in the exhibition game that year that we were in deep trouble at the center position.

 

[seansherm]

If Dylan Harper had been a little healthier during the season he was here with Ace things would have been a lot better. There also were huge warning signs by how St. John’s center killed us on the boards and looked like a super star in the exhibition game that year that we were in deep trouble at the center position.

Yeah, a first round draft pick hammered us on the boards. Many of us had said center would be a problem long before that scrimmage, didn't need that as a sign.

 

[FastMJ]

It's a saying... not to be taken literally. It just means a player's leaping ability is not very strong.

His vertical is no more than 18 inches in the photo.

Position / Group	Average Vertical Jump	Key Characteristics
Guards	30 – 35+ inches	Higher reactivity, speed, and open-court bounce
Forwards	28 – 33 inches	Balanced power for rebounding and inside finishing
Centers	26 – 30 inches	Greater mass and height; lower absolute vertical requirement

The worst vertical of any RU big man had to be Lathan Somerville. It was 8 inches max

 

[S.W.A.I.N]

The worst vertical of any RU big man had to be Lathan Somerville. It was 8 inches max

 

[RUfan1977]

With regards to multiple posts that Gurdak won’t be a good defensive rebounder, it should be noted that Gurdak had more defensive rebounds (13) than any other player who played today.

It should also be pointed out that Gurdak played 76 minutes and only had 3 fouls.

Today Gurdak had a very solid 20 point 15 rebound game.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

With regards to multiple posts that Gurdak won’t be a good defensive rebounder, it should be noted that Gurdak had more defensive rebounds (13) than any other player who played today.

It should also be pointed out that Gurdak played 76 minutes and only had 3 fouls.

Today Gurdak had a very solid 20 point 15 rebound game.

As BAC pointed out, these are exhibitions so it’s hard to draw concrete conclusions about how “good” the defense can be. Teams are trying things out that they wouldn’t do on a really game (both sides) and so on. Again - it’s a practice game which comes with a huge caveat.

Having said this - you can tell the individual flip side - ie which guys stand out as defensive liabilities and the good news for us is that so far Gurdak does not. Right now - only Powers defense has stood out to me as a big problem through the 2 exhibitions. He still loses his guy way too much and takes gambles trying to get steals then ends up selling out. JMike is a good on ball defender, but he’s absolutely terrible at reading the screens. Runs into them routinely - losing his guy. That stands out too.

 

[seansherm]

As BAC pointed out, these are exhibitions so it’s hard to draw concrete conclusions about how “good” the defense can be. Teams are trying things out that they wouldn’t do on a really game (both sides) and so on. Again - it’s a practice game which comes with a huge caveat.

Having said this - you can tell the individual flip side - ie which guys stand out as defensive liabilities and the good news for us is that so far Gurdak does not. Right now - only Powers defense has stood out to me as a big problem through the 2 exhibitions. He still loses his guy way too much and takes gambles trying to get steals then ends up selling out. JMike is a good on ball defender, but he’s absolutely terrible at reading the screens. Runs into them routinely - losing his guy. That stands out too.

Yeah, Powers is still awful. Smith had a little more trouble yesterday, but its still not worst defender in the country level.
Gurdak just kind of raises his arms and stays strong and straight. It's why he doesn't commit fouls, he doesn't leave the ground.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yeah, Powers is still awful. Smith had a little more trouble yesterday, but its still not worst defender in the country level.
Gurdak just kind of raises his arms and stays strong and straight. It's why he doesn't commit fouls, he doesn't leave the ground.

In a real game, I’d like to see Jones scale Smith’s time down a bit in games where he’s not on fire. Jones looks to be the stabilizer on D that we need to complement Tariq’s limitations. Tariq, by the way, continues to at least be a smart defender (despite his size limitations) so when you play a plus defending guard along side him - it helps a lot. Meaning Tariq is usually in the right position. Smith will, and should, play plenty. His D isn’t as you say “awful”, but I’m not sure he should get double the minutes of Jones going forward. I guess we’ll see.

 

[RUfan1977]

As BAC pointed out, these are exhibitions so it’s hard to draw concrete conclusions about how “good” the defense can be. Teams are trying things out that they wouldn’t do on a really game (both sides) and so on. Again - it’s a practice game which comes with a huge caveat.

Having said this - you can tell the individual flip side - ie which guys stand out as defensive liabilities and the good news for us is that so far Gurdak does not. Right now - only Powers defense has stood out to me as a big problem through the 2 exhibitions. He still loses his guy way too much and takes gambles trying to get steals then ends up selling out. JMike is a good on ball defender, but he’s absolutely terrible at reading the screens. Runs into them routinely - losing his guy. That stands out too.

A 4OT exhibition game suggests to me that both coaches have gotten their teams to have a lot of fight on them. Coach Knight was right that Rutgers needs to finish better, but coming out of this game, I have to believe this team is going to be a lot harder to beat them many people expect, exhibition game or not.

As for Powers, I didn’t notice his defense, what stood out to me was his shooting was so bad.

Watching Gurdak defend, exhibition game or not, you can tell he understands positioning and where he needs to be on the floor. You see him defending his man away from the basket, but when shots go up you see him back underneath the basket for the rebound. You see him help out on defense and get back to his man. Unlike Ogbole, he knows where to be on the court to maximize his skills.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

A 4OT exhibition game suggests to me that both coaches have gotten their teams to have a lot of fight on them. Coach Knight was right that Rutgers needs to finish better, but coming out of this game, I have to believe this team is going to be a lot harder to beat them many people expect, exhibition game or not.

As for Powers, I didn’t notice his defense, what stood out to me was his shooting was so bad.

Watching Gurdak defend, exhibition game or not, you can tell he understands positioning and where he needs to be on the floor. You see him defending his man away from the basket, but when shots go up you see him back underneath the basket for the rebound. You see him help out on defense and get back to his man. Unlike Ogbole, he knows where to be on the court to maximize his skills.

Powers is not good defending in our halfcourt scheme. There was a noticable drop off when he was on the court. For the most part, when we got back on defense the rest of the time, we looked pretty solid.

We had a really bad stretch of turnovers and failing to get back on D to open half two and gave up the lead. That wasn’t Powers (he wasn’t in and has to be cleaned up), but outside of that stretch (which wasn’t a halfcourt scheming breakdown) I thought we held up okay except for some stretches where Powers was out there. If your looking for it, is pretty noticable. His understanding of where to be is still a step late on help and close outs. And as said, he tries too hard to make up for it on steals and sells out at times allowing guards to blow by him.

JMike is also not the elite defender some make him out to be. He’s good on ball but doesn’t know how to roll the screens rendering his pressure pretty useless.

 

[Zebnatto1!]

A big defensive plus for Gurdack is his ability to hedge on the high screen then recover. Too used to seeing guys wide open on the rolls.

 

[seansherm]

In a real game, I’d like to see Jones scale Smith’s time down a bit in games where he’s not on fire. Jones looks to be the stabilizer on D that we need to complement Tariq’s limitations. Tariq, by the way, continues to at least be a smart defender (despite his size limitations) so when you play a plus defending guard along side him - it helps a lot. Meaning Tariq is usually in the right position. Smith will, and should, play plenty. His D isn’t as you say “awful”, but I’m not sure he should get double the minutes of Jones going forward. I guess we’ll see.

I was surprised Smith played double what Jones played, but I'm fearful we are going to see more Jones at 3 and Smith at 4 than I'd like. That's a smallish 1-4.
I know Syndor coming back from injury but that was a weird four minute stretch he was given. Looked a little lost.

 

[Anon1751565407]

With regards to multiple posts that Gurdak won’t be a good defensive rebounder, it should be noted that Gurdak had more defensive rebounds (13) than any other player who played today.

It should also be pointed out that Gurdak played 76 minutes and only had 3 fouls.

Today Gurdak had a very solid 20 point 15 rebound game.

20-15 is stat stuffing for sure…even playing 47 minutes.
That’s Luka Garza kinda stuff (without any 3 pointers though).

 

[Rutgers25]

20-15 is stat stuffing for sure…even playing 47 minutes.
That’s Luka Garza kinda stuff (without any 3 pointers though).

I don’t think he made them but when he took a one legged step back jumper I did a double take. if he actually has that kind of stuff in his bag of tricks that is a game changer I think.