Burroughs asked about coaching at Iowa

[AJD]

As I said earlier, we're going to find out what Beth's (and the biggest donors) expectations are for this program for the long term in the next 6 months.
Arguably the Dan Gable/John Smith/Cael Sanderson of his era just said he'd listen if Iowa reached out. He's 20 years younger than your current head coach and he's hungry.
This is THE ONE program in the entire university that has consistently competed for and won championships in our lifetimes. THE ONE. Either you recognize that and have expectations to get back to the top or you don't. If you do, now is the time to take action.
Tom was absolutely the right hire at the time and he's been very good. He got the program back on track from where it was. But it's time to pass the torch.

I'd circle 2028. A lot of eggs in the SL 2028 for Gold basket.

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

Agreed, I think Jason Nolf would be a great hire,

As an assistant, yeah.

 

[TheREALSpooner]

Kind of along the same thought process…I get 10 mailings from the Penn State Wrestling Club to every one that I receive from HWC. And the only reason I received those PSU mailings was because I bet PSU fans that our Hawks would beat them in individual matches through the years…and subsequently I pay the PSU wrestling club each March when we lose. Thats the only time the PSU WC hears from me….but I hear from them at least every couple months. That said, I donate to the HWC monthly and rarely hear a peep from them and almost never do I receive anything in the mail. My point is that if we need more money we need to be asking our fan base a little more aggressively, and frankly we’re not. I honestly believe that we could get a lot more money coming in if we improved our outreach program. And no, it’s not billionaire money but it’s still money…and in doing so we would get our fan base more involved. Just my two cents.

The mail? What is this, 1987? Who the heck pays any attention to what they get in the mail?

At the end of the day, I think we probably agree on overall fundraising efforts. And I’m positive there’s contingent of unmotivated fans with $$$. I just chuckled that this is a thing for someone.

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

I'd circle 2028. A lot of eggs in the SL 2028 for Gold basket.

Beth would obviously like for Spencer to win gold, but in the grand scheme of things she only cares about how the college team performs. My guess/hope is it’s over after this year.

 

[el dub]

You got 5-10 million in NIL laying around? That's what it will take to close the gap. All the top coaches can coach, got to have the talent. To get talent you have to buy it these days.

So, in hindsight, what do y’all think of the investment in the new facility now? I’m curious if anyone thinks it could have made us more successful if used in different ways.

 

[one8alpha]

Last guy who can get us back on par with OSU and closer to PSU.

I think Kyle Dake would be a better option than Burroughs

 

[Trakker]

So, in hindsight, what do y’all think of the investment in the new facility now? I’m curious if anyone thinks it could have made us more successful if used in different ways.

I dont think you can necessarily assume that we would have gotten anywhere close to the same amount of money raised if it was going towards the hwc or nil or something else

 

[Corby2]

I dont think you can necessarily assume that we would have gotten anywhere close to the same amount of money raised if it was going towards the hwc or nil or something else

Exactly and Tom raised it

 

[Mattski]

Exactly and Tom raised it

Which is awesome. Put his name on it along with Bob's. Well deserved. But it's got nothing to do with who should be leading the program in the coming years if the goal is to complete for championships.

 

[LIV4GOD]

Which is awesome. Put his name on it along with Bob's. Well deserved. But it's got nothing to do with who should be leading the program in the coming years if the goal is to complete for championships.

Or not to have two consecutive years of record-breaking losses to PSU in duals.

 

[Comment123]

Wasn' that before the NIL became the Wild, Wild West. I don't think he could foresee what would happen quickly after he said that, nor the amounts of money that became part of it. If you asked him directly, I think he would be happy to answer why that didn't play out...

Lol, nil definitely wasn’t the wild wild west before he said that

 

[Corby2]

Which is awesome. Put his name on it along with Bob's. Well deserved. But it's got nothing to do with who should be leading the program in the coming years if the goal is to complete for championships.

It goes back to post #85 as well

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

.

 

[vhsalum]

Maybe because kids don't see the benefit of wrestling for a glorified high school coach. Goodale had success at Jackson...that's about it.

1. you're right about Goodale

2. It's a systemic problem. Parents don't pay for private school to send their kids to Rutgers. It's just never going to happen.

 

[Gusaford1]

You got 5-10 million in NIL laying around? That's what it will take to close the gap. All the top coaches can coach, got to have the talent. To get talent you have to buy it these days.

For many years, I wanted to believe that Iowa's coaching was on the same level as PSU's. But the evidence has long been in and it's just not true. And each successive year adds to the existing evidence. We have to stop kidding ourselves.

 

[Stick Kitty]

Money isn’t why Iowa is underachieving. It’s part of the reason why we are even in the trophy hunt at this point. We have a gigantic development issue, we have a stigma around the program partially not earned but mostly earned because of TnT and it hurts our recruiting, and also have coaches who can’t act like normal humans in front of a microphone. I refuse to believe we can’t compete for team titles in this sport anymore, even if we have multimillionaires as donors instead of a billionaires. TNT either need to get better at their jobs or let the next guy in.

It's fair to have a microscope on 125 & 197 this season. This is the year that 2 top P4P types take that Tony Ramos leap after being in the program. It's now showtime for both of them. Show us what you have done with them coaches!

 

[sdvike]

Not sure who or what the blame/reasoning but the change and last minute decisions of Raney, Raney, Bassett and Miller is monumental. Iowa wrestling would definitely be in the discussion for the next years and likely beyond.

 

[grapplefan]

So, in hindsight, what do y’all think of the investment in the new facility now? I’m curious if anyone thinks it could have made us more successful if used in different ways.

Not sure. Once you have a state-of-the-art facility, it's done. Could we have used that money in other ways? Maybe, but second-guessing that is a fool's errand at this point. Now we need the next coaching staff. I seriously doubt that Beth will rubber stamp whoever TnT wants to succeed them.

 

[grapplefan]

For many years, I wanted to believe that Iowa's coaching was on the same level as PSU's. But the evidence has long been in and it's just not true. And each successive year adds to the existing evidence. We have to stop kidding ourselves.

Me too, but it may be more a little complicated than coaching. I've never seen PSU as a model that others can follow. They have other advantages (population, state HS quality, possible loose compliance, etc.) there besides just coaching.
We'll see with Okie St., but over years, I doubt they can overtake Penn State because wrestling culture diminished in Oklahoma from the mid-20th century dynasties.
What we've had is us: the huge fan base. Year after year of underperforming undermines that.

 

[Stick Kitty]

The mail? What is this, 1987? Who the heck pays any attention to what they get in the mail?

At the end of the day, I think we probably agree on overall fundraising efforts. And I’m positive there’s contingent of unmotivated fans with $$$. I just chuckled that this is a thing for someone.

I promise you there are major donors that wont cut a check to this current coaching staff. I dont blame them as any extra money should go to Mens basketball.

One program has a coach everyone thinks is a genius and has so much excitement coming off last years finish, the other is the Men's wrestling team.

I am afraid its going to take a new coach and to also let the men's basketball team cool off so to speak. Going to be an pivotal year for both coaches for sure. Coach Mac has a lot more depth, height and shooting. This is the first time in a long time I am probably looking more forward to seeing what happens with the basketball team then the wrestling team. And that's crazy talk I know!

But its the reality of a stale program. Change my mind

 

[Comment123]

Well I say you're full of shite and don't know what you are talking about.
We have money but they money that has been spent at okie st, is another level.

In order to have recorded a lot of money spent the recruits have to actually want to wrestle at your program. Doesn’t mean we aren’t offering a lot of money

 

[VonEhwegen]

So, in hindsight, what do y’all think of the investment in the new facility now? I’m curious if anyone thinks it could have made us more successful if used in different ways.

I think if you asked anyone if they would rather have titles in the trophy case or a new facility. The answer is pretty simple, but Iowa needed it and hopefully it does help with recovery and all that. When every recruit sees it, they're in AHH, is it a deciding factor if someone chooses Iowa or not. Probably not, but it was needed.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Both Snyder and Dake took paycuts to go to the NLWC.

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, I hope you're kidding. I bet Valencia did as well to go to okie

 

[Sunshinedynomite 1]

Zero chance JB will be the coach

when TNT retire the staff will be

S Lee HC
Kamerer Asst HC
Marinelli Asst HC
Warner HWC

 

[VonEhwegen]

Money isn’t why Iowa is underachieving. It’s part of the reason why we are even in the trophy hunt at this point. We have a gigantic development issue, we have a stigma around the program partially not earned but mostly earned because of TnT and it hurts our recruiting, and also have coaches who can’t act like normal humans in front of a microphone. I refuse to believe we can’t compete for team titles in this sport anymore, even if we have multimillionaires as donors instead of a billionaires. TNT either need to get better at their jobs or let the next guy in.

I'm sure they would agree with you that they do need to "get better" every coach would that's not having success winning titles. You think the Raynes, Seeley and all those top guys just sitting on the bench cause they " want to be there". They're getting paid big to sit there on the bench. Iowa has no depth and that truly hurts. 1 injury and . Look at how many blue-chippers those 2 programs have Sitting; they have more sitting than Iowa has on the roster. Who has Iowa brought in that last couple years for Transfers?? Jordan whose never AA, Bailey had the one good year followed by 2 disappointing years. Crookham, who needs to stay healthy and hasn't done that his whole career going all way back to HS. Peterson, also never AA in his career. IOWA needs to hit on the transfer that they do pay good. Character is a bigger issue on the guys we bring in.

 

[grapplefan]

Zero chance JB will be the coach

when TNT retire the staff will be

S Lee HC
Kamerer Asst HC
Marinelli Asst HC
Warner HWC

With all due respect, this may be a recipe for underperforming. Sadly, I'm not seeing a fresh start with this cast.
But we like our guys.

 

[VonEhwegen]

For many years, I wanted to believe that Iowa's coaching was on the same level as PSU's. But the evidence has long been in and it's just not true. And each successive year adds to the existing evidence. We have to stop kidding ourselves.

So, if Iowa went out and bought Gable and Valencia to the HWC. And they succeed (shocker I know), would you say it was because of brands? OR were they having great success before they got to Iowa???? Those 2 guys alone would give Iowa 3 of the top guys on the senior circuit. Then all sudden the HWC is relevant on the big stage. You want top end kids, you need to have a great Club, Facilities and Money. All the top coaches can coach top kids, thats like saying if Spencer went to Campbell. He would still be great at Campbell.

 

[vhsalum]

HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAH, I hope you're kidding. I bet Valencia did as well to go to okie

Nope. not joking. Both tOSU and Cornell had WAY MORE to pay because Snyder and Dake were the only persons getting paid. While Carl does have a lot of funds - it's not unlimited.

Now, they didn't come for pennies, but yes, they both were paid less by NLWC than their previous club. Dake was making over $450k at Cornell. He doesn't get near that much from NLWC.

Valencia definitely got more to go to Okiest. But DT also reduced NIL for Wyatt, Plott and Hamiti when he first got there.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Not sure who or what the blame/reasoning but the change and last minute decisions of Raney, Raney, Bassett and Miller is monumental. Iowa wrestling would definitely be in the discussion for the next years and likely beyond.

Raney's 100% took the large amount of cash; they weren't even considering okie until 2 weeks before they committed. That just doesn't randomly happen. Now one of them will sit on the bench for how many years, hope it was worth it. When Bo left, everyone knew Melvin would follow. Of course that hurt, hopefully Joey and Freddy can make up for that. With Bo in Iowa, there would more than likely be no Joey & Freddy. Missing out on Zapeda hurt as well. But here we're, on to the next class.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Zero chance JB will be the coach

when TNT retire the staff will be

S Lee HC
Kamerer Asst HC
Marinelli Asst HC
Warner HWC

100%, Lee finishes the 28 cycle and becomes the HC before 2030.

 

[Stick Kitty]

A big issue is say best case here...

133,184 & HWT all make the finals and say 1 wins
141,149 & 174 are 3-5
125,165,197 are 6-8

That would be a solid team finish, probably still 3rd place.

My point is- who out of all of those guys will score bonus points and wrestle like a rockstar?

IMO without doing all the numbers. Last years team was likely the worst bonus scoring team in Tom's time here. This years will likely be worse with the losses of high activity guys like Drake, Mikey & PK. Where are the bonus points coming from? We dont have those type of horses.

That's a problem. This brand and style is not currently fast paced, attractive and fun to watch. If money is similar or even if Iowa is paying more....why does a top elite kid want to come here. The other teams PSU & OK st are having fun and lighting up scoreboards. Iowa is not- the stigma is real and its fair. We are all super fans so we want to argue that but look in the mirror. It's a very stale product. unfair label or not, thats how the program is viewed.

 

[VonEhwegen]

Nope. not joking. Both tOSU and Cornell had WAY MORE to pay because Snyder and Dake were the only persons getting paid. While Carl does have a lot of funds - it's not unlimited.

Now, they didn't come for pennies, but yes, they both were paid less by NLWC than their previous club. Dake was making over $450k at Cornell. He doesn't get near that much from NLWC.

Cornell doesn't pay ****, Ask Yianni.. Dake and them didn't just uproot their lives and go to NLWC for less money. Dake owned PSU on every level, you can't beat them buy them . Could argue he had more Success at Cornell Club than NLWC as well.

 

[VonEhwegen]

A big issue is say best case here...

133,184 & HWT all make the finals and say 1 wins
141,149 & 174 are 3-5
125,165,197 are 6-8

That would be a solid team finish, probably still 3rd place.

My point is- who out of all of those guys will score bonus points and wrestle like a rockstar?

IMO without doing all the numbers. Last years team was likely the worst bonus scoring team in Tom's time here. This years will likely be worse with the losses of high activity guys like Drake, Mikey & PK. Where are the bonus points coming from? We dont have those type of horses.

That's a problem. This brand and style is not currently fast paced, attractive and fun to watch. If money is similar or even if Iowa is paying more....why does a top elite kid want to come here. The other teams PSU & OK st are having fun and lighting up scoreboards. Iowa is not- the stigma is real and its fair. We are all super fans so we want to argue that but look in the mirror. It's a very stale product. unfair label or not, thats how the program is viewed.

Ben needs to step up and play big dawg in his class like he should be. Leo needs to bring the offense and score big bonus. Ferrari needs to open up as well and start putting guys on their back. All those guys were offensive scoring machines before college. Block & Williams can be explosive as well. Will see what kids show up and what kids are content winning 3-2 matches.

 

[Trakker]

Raney's 100% took the large amount of cash; they weren't even considering okie until 2 weeks before they committed. That just doesn't randomly happen. Now one of them will sit on the bench for how many years, hope it was worth it. When Bo left, everyone knew Melvin would follow. Of course that hurt, hopefully Joey and Freddy can make up for that. With Bo in Iowa, there would more than likely be no Joey & Freddy. Missing out on Zapeda hurt as well. But here we're, on to the next class.

Hope people aren't realistically expecting the bachmanns or kenneys to be game changers at Iowa.

 

[Corby2]

Cornell doesn't pay ****, Ask Yianni.. Dake and them didn't just uproot their lives and go to NLWC for less money. Dake owned PSU on every level, you can't beat them buy them . Could argue he had more Success at Cornell Club than NLWC as well.

Dake took less $ at Penn st . Yianni was well taken care of as well.

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

Zero chance JB will be the coach

when TNT retire the staff will be

S Lee HC
Kamerer Asst HC
Marinelli Asst HC
Warner HWC

This guy is a troll if anyone didn’t know.

 

[ChicagoHawk2020]

I promise you there are major donors that wont cut a check to this current coaching staff. I dont blame them as any extra money should go to Mens basketball.

One program has a coach everyone thinks is a genius and has so much excitement coming off last years finish, the other is the Men's wrestling team.

I am afraid its going to take a new coach and to also let the men's basketball team cool off so to speak. Going to be an pivotal year for both coaches for sure. Coach Mac has a lot more depth, height and shooting. This is the first time in a long time I am probably looking more forward to seeing what happens with the basketball team then the wrestling team. And that's crazy talk I know!

But its the reality of a stale program. Change my mind

Iowa basketball is having trouble raising NIL money at a competitive B1G level at the moment too btw.

 

[vhsalum]

Cornell doesn't pay ****, Ask Yianni.. Dake and them didn't just uproot their lives and go to NLWC for less money. Dake owned PSU on every level, you can't beat them buy them . Could argue he had more Success at Cornell Club than NLWC as well.

You're just wrong here. We're talking about Rob Koll. He made sure Dake got paid very well. He didn't leave Cornell because he wanted more money. He wanted better partners, and to actually be coached. He really only trusts Casey.

 

[MissouriHawkeye]

Last guy who can get us back on par with OSU and closer to PSU.

Other than you and me?

 

[TheREALSpooner]

Zero chance JB will be the coach

when TNT retire the staff will be

S Lee HC
Kamerer Asst HC
Marinelli Asst HC
Warner HWC

We are all just surprised you didn’t put Jordan Williams on staff.

I am just hopeful that someday we have both a head coach and a fan base who isn’t obsessed with filling the coaching staff and wrestling club with ex-Iowa wrestlers.