After this
In 2-5 years depending on your appetite for destruction, when it settles in that we’re no longer even consistently in the top 15, you’ll see how naive this list seems.
My, have they come out of the woodwork
- Thread starter PSUForever
- Start date
If the guy before me had Franklin’s coaching track record and was fired…I actually WOULD be worried after just two games. And if he’s smart (Campbell), he is.
I didn’t read this entire thing, but one thing jumped out and that’s when you said he took ISU guys because he had to. He took ISU guys because he chose to. Will Stein took nobody with him and built the team from the portal…and that was to Kentucky, not exactly a football hotbed.
Trading your Camry for a Yugo isn't a way to end up driving a Lexus.
Try to polish a turd and ending up with smelly hands is the way for idiots who worship James Fraudlin.
Kevin Horne? What a fat, slovenly tool. Yeah, I'm listening to this bozo. We are now all dumber for you posting this.
He's also misrepresenting the quote from Campbell back then. Campbell said, and I quote, "i never said winning the big 1w was my goal and it never will be, being the best version of ourselves is my goal." Its sort of process over results philosophy that a lot of really successful people amd organization mold to, and at a place like Iowa state, it makes a ton of sense. Sorry to Kevin Horne or whoever, but setting the goal of Winning a national championship every year isnt sustainable and I would think hurts the odd of the team ever rebounding after a loss. Campbell is not above criticism, even this early here, but we should be honest about what he says.
Well, then one should be REAL clear:
The statement from Campbell did not come at some random time - or during pre-season practice or some such thing.
It was immediately after playing for - and losing - a game to determine the conference championship.
At that point, in that situation, you damn well ought to be ALL about winning the f-ing championship. It was a bizarre statement, given the time and circumstances.
Horne made a VERY reasonable observation - whether one agrees with it or not.
Personally, my impression of Campbell as a person is generally positive. I don't have any major beefs with the guy - and I have liked a lot of what I have seen (but I am not about to throw my hair out the window just yet either).
But there are reasons the folks in Ames were not all considering seppuku when he left - or soliciting "keep him here $" from the Ames equivalent of Crumbl Cookies.
Trolls and Imbeciles from other boards are running rampant here. We have enough inherent and mentally challenged wonks here.
But the main point is how can Iowa State, after losing all their “best” players to PSU, still be better than PSU?
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Yeah, it feels like old times.
To me, it's pretty simple. Franklin absolutely had to go. There's no defending him. If he'd just won a few games as an underdog or when we were evenly matched, it would have been different.
You can critique the hire of Campbell. I'm fine with that. I don't know who else we would have hired and there's no way to know if any of them would be better.
This season was always going to be a struggle. The hire of Campbell happened so late, we had no other choice than to bring over ISU players even though they aren't that great. If you listened to the DC's press conference yesterday, they're openly acknowledging that they have who they have and they have to make the best of it for now.
Well they aren't so we don't need to waste time arguing about it.
Are you going to answer your own posts today or like them? Which will it be, or both?
James was so close to his title run it made Nick Saban retire in fear.
You bring up a fair point. What is this all about? I think Joe would have said something very similar to Campbell in that spot. I think Franklin would talk about how "99% or college football teams would have loved to be one win out of their conference championship." So I guess I know what you want, and I don't blame you. "Anything outside of winning championships will not be acceptable to me as a coach, our locker-room, and our fans." Okay.....for all the money at stake and all the chest thumping Kraft did, you have every right to feel that way. I guess they should have hired Urban than. Kraft tried to find "fit" and "success" with this hire.....you can certainly make the case he shouldn't have in big money semi-pro football. I don't necessarily feel that way, I grew up appreciating Success with Honor even though I think we all would have hoped for more wins/championships. It's also possible even Campbell has reset his expectations at this job vs. his last. I think if youre coaching a mid major program, you probably aren't preaching championships often, its just not going to happen.
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Obviously, a completely different issue than the OP.
But, since you bring it up:
No, he didn't (for crying out loud, his "next to last" failure was trying to buy Sitake. Sitake! It would be a good parody - but it was true).
He completely cocked-up the entire process from beginning to end - as is his long and uninterrupted track record wherever he has been.
He cocked it up so badly that he was left with his, and PSU's, pants around his ankles - down to the last man standing. And then offered Campbell a ginormous contract (Do you think PSU has become anything OTHER THAN "big money semi-pro football"?) to try to save his bacon.
Whether Campbell's hire will work out in the long-run, or not, is yet to be determined (I think we all hope it does - but everything Kraft did, from the day he fired HCJF through to today, made it harder).
Whether Kraft - once again - completely cocked up a major coaching hire process is not "yet to be determined". It's a done deal.
They likely aren't better than PSU (unpopular opinion around here, I know). We'd be favored by 5-6 over them on a neutral if we played today (@Grant Green can fact check me).
So you are all here complaining about Coach XYZ and need to look in the mirror why aren’t you all donating as a huge alumni base to make PSU NIL formidable?
so you complain and the fact of the matter is the PSU roster is incredibly less talented than Indiana ND OSU etc etc not even close yet you expect what exactly?
so you complain and the fact of the matter is the PSU roster is incredibly less talented than Indiana ND OSU etc etc not even close yet you expect what exactly?
Again, I don't disagree with your point dude. Sitake made no sense, Kraft is very clearly in over his head. No, I don't think Penn State is anything other than BIG MONEY SEMI PRO, but then why hire Campbell for his "fit and values." Just go get Urban, tell him grades don't matter, give him a $40Mil roster, and be done with it????? Like, I agree, that was a strategy, but not the one we took. As it pertains to Campbells comments 8 years ago at Mid Major Iowa State, I don't find anything untoward about them...you do, fine. Process over results...."take care of the small things, the big things will take care of themselves-JoePa". "If we are the best version of ourselves, we will like where we end up."
Just be honest, the point Kevin Horne is making is that Campbell is okay with losing? If that's the argument, just make it. I don't think that is the case and based on that video and comment that Horne pulled from 8 years ago at Iowa State, I can't infer that Campbell is tolerant of losing.
Well, first of all, Urban certainly ain't coming to PSU (or probably ANYWHERE, to coach). No idea whatsoever why you raise that topic. Honestly.
Secondly, academics do not matter - that is clear - at PSU or elsewhere (maybe there remains an exception or two out their in big $ "college"sports - but I don't see any).
It not only is a "strategy we took" - it is the abundantly obvious reality
So, again, I don't really know what your point there is either.
I certainly never said - or thought - or think today - that Campbell is "OK with losing". So I am not sure where that comes from or enters in. (I couldn't tell you if Kevin Horne thinks that or not - I doubt that he does, though I think he clearly thinks those specific comments, in that time and place, were MISplaced and off-tone (I would agree with that, FWIW) - but one would have to ask him)
On point one, there are more than a few insiders that suggest Urban wanted the job. JayPa just confirmed last week that they consulted Urban late in the search about his thoughts on Campbell(why were are consulting with Urban is beyond me), but whatever. I raise that topic, because again, I think if the goal was to hire strictly a WINNER at the highest level, Urban would have made a lot of sense, no?
To remind you, you came out of nowhere when I said I thought Horne was "Misrepresenting" Campbell's original quote and said"
"It was immediately after playing for - and losing - a game to determine the conference championship.
At that point, in that situation, you damn well ought to be ALL about winning the f-ing championship. It was a bizarre statement, given the time and circumstances.
Horne made a VERY reasonable observation - whether one agrees with it or not"
What IS the observation that Horne made that was VERY Reasonable? He misrepresented the quote and intentionally, why? I don't want to spend all day in a back and forth, just tell me what the observation is and then we can agree/disagree on its merits.
He's not fat but carry on.....point is this sentiment is out there though probably localized to nutballs who listen to podcasts and frequent message boards (like us).
It was actually a perfect storm:
Franklin mis managed the roster and we lost more seniors than ever before with little to noc depth behind them.
The best ones remaining...left
The hire was so badly botched that we had NO recruiting class
The players coming in from ISU were not from his 24team but his mediocre 25 squad
Becht is having the worst season his career
The best two players on the team are watching the game from the sidelines
Jesus Christ...6-6 might be a miracle
Franklin mis managed the roster and we lost more seniors than ever before with little to noc depth behind them.
The best ones remaining...left
The hire was so badly botched that we had NO recruiting class
The players coming in from ISU were not from his 24team but his mediocre 25 squad
Becht is having the worst season his career
The best two players on the team are watching the game from the sidelines
Jesus Christ...6-6 might be a miracle
🖐️
I know this is unpopular but I can't rationalize why Kraft should be fired now. Why exactly? Because he screwed up the search for a new football coach a year ago? So let's follow that logic train.
He screwed it up how? By going after Sitake or not getting Chesney or someone else? Okay let's go with that. So we know at this point and time those guys would do much better than Campbell in the long run. Right, the long run. Can't be after 2 games or do you feel you have enough data after 2 games to conclude the Campbell hire is a failure? Hmmm. But I thought we needed at least 3 years? By the way, firing Kraft now would look like a panic ridiculous move.
Oh, you are saying because Campbell would be doing better if Kraft hired him in October or if we hired someone else in October? By doing that the new guy would have kept the entire team and '26 recruiting class in tact and we would be a top 5 team now? You really think that was happening? So we don't fire Kraft in November but wait until now to fire him? Or we should have fired him in November and not let him finish the search? Then we don't have an AD or a football coach? Most thought Campbell was a good hire, right? But now he is a bad hire.....after 2 bad games? What has changed since Campbell was hired to fire Kraft now?
Kraft is not untouchable and I'm not some huge Kraft fan. Never met the man and he has no idea who I am. I'm not a friend or family member of his nor connected to him in any way.
He has done nothing with PSU hoops and this stadium renovation was too big of a project costing too much money. But didn't the board approve the stadium project?
I will say that if Kraft cannot juice the NIL coffers and get us into the top 15 in NIL support then I would support firing him and keeping Campbell if we are hamstrung by that. But that is probably 2 years out.
The fact of the matter is that after Kraft fired BGJ which most logical people agreed with including all his bosses then his job hinged on the success of the new hire. The search was bumpy, I will grant you that, but you don't fire him in the middle of it. He got Campbell. And we don't know how Campbell is going to turn out so I don't see why logically you fire Kraft now.
He screwed it up how? By going after Sitake or not getting Chesney or someone else? Okay let's go with that. So we know at this point and time those guys would do much better than Campbell in the long run. Right, the long run. Can't be after 2 games or do you feel you have enough data after 2 games to conclude the Campbell hire is a failure? Hmmm. But I thought we needed at least 3 years? By the way, firing Kraft now would look like a panic ridiculous move.
Oh, you are saying because Campbell would be doing better if Kraft hired him in October or if we hired someone else in October? By doing that the new guy would have kept the entire team and '26 recruiting class in tact and we would be a top 5 team now? You really think that was happening? So we don't fire Kraft in November but wait until now to fire him? Or we should have fired him in November and not let him finish the search? Then we don't have an AD or a football coach? Most thought Campbell was a good hire, right? But now he is a bad hire.....after 2 bad games? What has changed since Campbell was hired to fire Kraft now?
Kraft is not untouchable and I'm not some huge Kraft fan. Never met the man and he has no idea who I am. I'm not a friend or family member of his nor connected to him in any way.
He has done nothing with PSU hoops and this stadium renovation was too big of a project costing too much money. But didn't the board approve the stadium project?
I will say that if Kraft cannot juice the NIL coffers and get us into the top 15 in NIL support then I would support firing him and keeping Campbell if we are hamstrung by that. But that is probably 2 years out.
The fact of the matter is that after Kraft fired BGJ which most logical people agreed with including all his bosses then his job hinged on the success of the new hire. The search was bumpy, I will grant you that, but you don't fire him in the middle of it. He got Campbell. And we don't know how Campbell is going to turn out so I don't see why logically you fire Kraft now.
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The problem, in addition to timing (noting it needed to happen at some point), is that he allowed a bunch of Franklin's guys who were going to follow him wherever he went to stay employed and working against PSU for six weeks. Enough time to sabotage the current recruiting class and potentially impact any transfers. Sure, some guys from both groups were gonna do whatever they're gonna do, but there are guys who were on PSU's staff falsely telling recruits their scholarships/NIL monies were not going to be honored by PSU and to look elsewhere (ideally wherever Franklin was gonna go). Kraft's other hires haven't done well either have they? How's baseball? He hired his BC buddy and they suck. List is long to be honest and it's not like he's offsetting bad decisions by doing gangbusters on fundraising. His decisions to date have been pretty awful and Campbell fell into his lap. Do you believe he had his wrong number initially? If so, that's not good either.
Did this actually happen or are we just making assumptions? Where can I find this reporting?
Isn't he a lawyer in SC and was like the sports editor of the Collegian? How in the world is he more qualified than a typical fan? He is a whiny blowhard.
Wow. I wonder though, if this came from Pat Kraft because he said in his press conference when he let the nation know that Franklin was fired, that he didn’t care about the 2026 class at all and that he only cared about the players in that locker room.
The "James Gang" theme song....
"Hat turned sideways walking through the town, looking like a fool with your pants on the ground, pants on the ground, pants on the ground, looking like a fool with your pants on the ground".
"Hat turned sideways walking through the town, looking like a fool with your pants on the ground, pants on the ground, pants on the ground, looking like a fool with your pants on the ground".
Campbell was not available until the end of the season so the wrong number or whatever did not matter.
Who cares about baseball? The whole athletic program hinges on football. My contention is that IF he got this right with Campbell and after 3 years we are a strong program he should keep his job...AND IF NIL is flowing in at a top 15 level. You shouldn't fire him now over a baseball hire.
I don't know about the moles from the BGJ era. Did he know they were moles? Maybe or not but he should have sniffed that out so fair point.
I guess they could have fired him in January or something like that after Campbell was hired but that seems like flimsy logic. Let's blame him for all the poaching and then not let his biggest hire of his PSU tenure play out under his watch while disrupting Campbell by changing his boss who would have not hired him nor have that much loyalty to him within 1 month of his arrival. Seems unnecessary but I guess you could say we were going to get a new AD who is the king rainmaker and our NIL was going to skyrocket.
Believe his contributions are as a fan and nothing else.
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