The Left's Model for Schools Has Failed

m.knox

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The left is more interested in 72 genders than they are math and science.

The article doesn't touch on miserable test scores of today's students.

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/6126269-education-cartel-threatens-students/

“In the first place, God made idiots,” Mark Twain once wrote in an 1879 travel book. “That was for practice. Then he made school boards.”

It appears that most Americans now agree with him. New polling shows that K-12 education has now reached a record low in the number of people who are even “somewhat satisfied” with the state of education in the U.S.

What is most troubling is that the near-total contempt for our school system does not make a bit of difference. Families and students have become largely irrelevant to an education cartel, a self-sustaining, self-perpetuating political alliance of unions and politicians.

According to Gallup, only 32 percent of American adults say they are “completely” or “somewhat” satisfied with the quality of K-12 education. That is the lowest figure in Gallup’s 27 years of asking the question. Public satisfaction with the school system has dropped almost 20 points since just 2024.

For many of us, neither the drop in public support is surprising. The collapse comes at a time when universities are reporting that college students are entering higher education without basic math and other skills.


We have also seen the dismal decline in standards at elite universities like Harvard, where faculty have been compelled to teach high school-level math classes to students.

In May, faculty in the University of California system (which eliminated standardized testing to achieve greater equity in admissions) reported an alarming lack of math knowledge among new students.

Most recently, a University of California, San Diego, faculty report found a nearly 30-fold increase since 2020 in incoming students whose math skills fell below a high-school level.
 

Gibbs6

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Sep 25, 2026
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All that matters to the left is that they “graduate”. It doesn’t matter if they know 2+2 or not. If it is a requirement, they will work their way around it to say a kid doesn’t need to know 2+2
 
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Jfcarter3

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All that matters to the left is that they “graduate”. It doesn’t matter if they know 2+2 or not. If it is a requirement, they will work their way around it to say a kid doesn’t need to know 2+2
Hate to break it to you, but that is not a "left" thing. That's a dumb @SS parent thing. Am more aware than I wish I was of parents both left and MAGA who fall into this dismal trap.
 
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m.knox

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Hate to break it to you, but that is not a "left" thing. That's a dumb @SS parent thing. Am more aware than I wish I was of parents both left and MAGA who fall into this dismal trap.

LOL.....

It is a "left thing." They are more interested in teaching young children 72 genders than mathematics. Get your head out of your ***.

Here, watch a former democrat tell you why your party is f'd up.

 

Jfcarter3

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LOL.....

It is a "left thing." They are more interested in teaching young children 72 genders than mathematics. Get your head out of your ***.

Here, watch a former democrat tell you why your party is f'd up.


Yep. Not my party, just not a MAGA tard like you.

Yeah. Lots o MAGAs where family members teach and they press the schools to push their kids through no matter what. Now, I’m sure you would think you know more about this from the interwebs, but you’d be wrong. Again. As usual.
 
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m.knox

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Yep. Not my party, just not a MAGA tard like you.

Yeah. Lots o MAGAs where family members teach and they press the schools to push their kids through no matter what. Now, I’m sure you would think you know more about this from the interwebs, but you’d be wrong. Again. As usual.


It is your party. Just stop. You libtards make me laugh.
 
Mar 8, 2010
8,523
16,384
113
The left is more interested in 72 genders than they are math and science.

The article doesn't touch on miserable test scores of today's students.

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/6126269-education-cartel-threatens-students/

“In the first place, God made idiots,” Mark Twain once wrote in an 1879 travel book. “That was for practice. Then he made school boards.”

It appears that most Americans now agree with him. New polling shows that K-12 education has now reached a record low in the number of people who are even “somewhat satisfied” with the state of education in the U.S.

What is most troubling is that the near-total contempt for our school system does not make a bit of difference. Families and students have become largely irrelevant to an education cartel, a self-sustaining, self-perpetuating political alliance of unions and politicians.

According to Gallup, only 32 percent of American adults say they are “completely” or “somewhat” satisfied with the quality of K-12 education. That is the lowest figure in Gallup’s 27 years of asking the question. Public satisfaction with the school system has dropped almost 20 points since just 2024.

For many of us, neither the drop in public support is surprising. The collapse comes at a time when universities are reporting that college students are entering higher education without basic math and other skills.


We have also seen the dismal decline in standards at elite universities like Harvard, where faculty have been compelled to teach high school-level math classes to students.

In May, faculty in the University of California system (which eliminated standardized testing to achieve greater equity in admissions) reported an alarming lack of math knowledge among new students.

Most recently, a University of California, San Diego, faculty report found a nearly 30-fold increase since 2020 in incoming students whose math skills fell below a high-school level.
Wouldn't the brightest kids leaving for private schools over the span of decades pretty much guarantee public school testing would struggle?

Start worrying about public schools... pull your kids... guarantee they start performing more poorly. Self fulfilling prophecy.
 

Jfcarter3

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It is your party. Just stop. You libtards make me laugh.
The unfortunate part is that all the TACO loving MAGAts, just like you, are what are pushing the right leaning moderates to the other side. People, just like you, will be part of the reason November 3rd will turn out the way it does.
 
Mar 8, 2010
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Household socioeconomic status (SES) is the single strongest statistical predictor of a student's standardized test scores.

Which is just a fancy way of saying that smart parents are (more likely) going to have smart kids.

It's that and not simple education quality that allows them to be smart.

When researchers specifically isolate high socioeconomic status (SES) students and compare those attending private schools against those attending public schools, major peer-reviewed studies show virtually no statistical difference in academic performance, test scores, or long-term cognitive outcomes.

So it's not failing public schools -- and high earning parents don't really benefit from sending their kids to private schools anyway. They're dumb enough not to understand it's mostly innate stuff.
 

Jfcarter3

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Aug 26, 2004
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Household socioeconomic status (SES) is the single strongest statistical predictor of a student's standardized test scores.

Which is just a fancy way of saying that smart parents are (more likely) going to have smart kids.

It's that and not simple education quality that allows them to be smart.

When researchers specifically isolate high socioeconomic status (SES) students and compare those attending private schools against those attending public schools, major peer-reviewed studies show virtually no statistical difference in academic performance, test scores, or long-term cognitive outcomes.

So it's not failing public schools -- and high earning parents don't really benefit from sending their kids to private schools anyway. They're dumb enough not to understand it's mostly innate stuff.
You have kids?
 
Mar 8, 2010
8,523
16,384
113
The left is more interested in 72 genders than they are math and science.

The article doesn't touch on miserable test scores of today's students.

https://thehill.com/opinion/education/6126269-education-cartel-threatens-students/

“In the first place, God made idiots,” Mark Twain once wrote in an 1879 travel book. “That was for practice. Then he made school boards.”

It appears that most Americans now agree with him. New polling shows that K-12 education has now reached a record low in the number of people who are even “somewhat satisfied” with the state of education in the U.S.

What is most troubling is that the near-total contempt for our school system does not make a bit of difference. Families and students have become largely irrelevant to an education cartel, a self-sustaining, self-perpetuating political alliance of unions and politicians.

According to Gallup, only 32 percent of American adults say they are “completely” or “somewhat” satisfied with the quality of K-12 education. That is the lowest figure in Gallup’s 27 years of asking the question. Public satisfaction with the school system has dropped almost 20 points since just 2024.

For many of us, neither the drop in public support is surprising. The collapse comes at a time when universities are reporting that college students are entering higher education without basic math and other skills.


We have also seen the dismal decline in standards at elite universities like Harvard, where faculty have been compelled to teach high school-level math classes to students.

In May, faculty in the University of California system (which eliminated standardized testing to achieve greater equity in admissions) reported an alarming lack of math knowledge among new students.

Most recently, a University of California, San Diego, faculty report found a nearly 30-fold increase since 2020 in incoming students whose math skills fell below a high-school level.

I don't know that schools are doing in any worse... but for the covid experiment.

Admission standards and grade inflation are probably what we're talking about here. Not quality of education itself. These are the same kids we had 30 years ago, they just weren't going to top tier universities.
 

Jfcarter3

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No. Do you have a meaningful observation or comment?
You have no clue what you’re talking about.

And it shows. Right, wrong, or indifferent, parents are predominately to blame for the problems in public schools. They expect you to raise their kid from 7:30 - 3:30 so they can be their friend. But in so doing, you can’t discipline them, take their phone, and whatever happens the parent is going to take their precious angel’s side no matter what. Then you have attitude problems and disrupters in class that can’t be sent anywhere. So while the teacher is engaged in the equivalent of crowd control, they are not teaching. Now, you can have similar issues in private school, but they are just asked not to come back. Problem solved. Private school is also about smaller classes and forced discipline. The curriculum is more rigorous because it can be. The school can also drive home morals and spiritual teaching that are constantly reinforced. It’s a better environment all the way around. And I have kids that have been to both.
 
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You have no clue what you’re talking about.

And it shows. Right, wrong, or indifferent, parents are predominately to blame for the problems in public schools. They expect you to raise their kid from 7:30 - 3:30 so they can be their friend. But in so doing, you can’t discipline them, take their phone, and whatever happens the parent is going to take their precious angel’s side no matter what. Then you have attitude problems and disrupters in class that can’t be sent anywhere. So while the teacher is engaged in the equivalent of crowd control, they are not teaching. Now, you can have similar issues in private school, but they are just asked not to come back. Problem solved. Private school is also about smaller classes and forced discipline. The curriculum is more rigorous because it can be. The school can also drive home morals and spiritual teaching that are constantly reinforced. It’s a better environment all the way around. And I have kids that have been to both.
No, what I said is pretty well supported by research. You're wrong.

You're not talking about the same problem I was, anyway.

What I said about test scores and kids private vs public is true -- in most public school situations the school is going to meet your kid's capabilities.

Yeah the discipline thing may be a problem that has become more concentrated in public schools over time. Again, I'd hazard to guess there are some pretty strong socio-economic correlations there...
 

Jfcarter3

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No, what I said is pretty well supported by research. You're wrong.

You're not talking about the same problem I was, anyway.

What I said about test scores and kids private vs public is true -- in most public school situations the school is going to meet your kid's capabilities.

Yeah the discipline thing may be a problem that has become more concentrated in public schools over time. Again, I'd hazard to guess there are some pretty strong socio-economic correlations there...
And I am telling you it is not going to meet those needs. I actually have kids that have been to both and have teachers in my family. They do not get to teach what they would like to/should because of the discipline problems. Real discipline problems. Yours is theoretical, mine is actual.
 
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And I am telling you it is not going to meet those needs. I actually have kids that have been to both and have teachers in my family. They do not get to teach what they would like too/should because of the discipline problems. Real discipline problems. Yours is theoretical, mine is actual.
You understand anecdote vs comprehensive study as it pertains to question like this, right?

Go look it up yourself, for a given student of X socio-economic status (middle income or higher, college educated) the student doesn't produce better test scores (ACT/SAT) or other similar achievement at private over public education offering.

I don't doubt there are more discipline issues in (certain) public schooling situations. But by and large, it's not an impediment for a student from a good family situation.

Raw national data often shows private school students outscoring public school students on the SAT and ACT by a significant margin. However, when researchers control for family income, parental education levels, and home learning resources, that score gap narrows to near zero. It's those items and not the school that drive the outcome. Get it?
 

Jfcarter3

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Man, whatever you need to tell yourself or whatever you’re hearing in your preferred echo chamber. I’ll take life experience 8 days a week.
 
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Man, whatever you need to tell yourself or whatever you’re hearing in your preferred echo chamber. I’ll take life experience 8 days a week.
You're unserious. I made a claim... that it's families (genetics to a good degree) that determine a kid's educational outcome, not private or public schooling. And I'll I'm getting from you is anecdotal junk.

The entire private schooling thing is just fighting on the margin, for a slightly better college or whatnot... where academic achievement is concerned. Vast majority of the outcome, however, is not the private school of choice.



Here are the key peer-reviewed studies, government dataset analyses, and international reports that analyze public vs. private school performance after controlling for family socioeconomic status (SES):

1. The University of Virginia Longitudinal Study (2018)​

  • Study Title: Do Private Schools Increase Student Achievement?
  • Authors: Robert Pianta & Arya Ansari (University of Virginia)
  • Published In: Educational Researcher (Journal of the American Educational Research Association)
  • Key Finding: Tracking over 1,000 students from birth through age 15, this study examined academic, social-emotional, and cognitive outcomes. Unadjusted data showed private school kids outperforming public school kids. However, once controlled for family income, maternal education, and home environment, all academic advantages of private schooling disappeared entirely by 9th grade.
  • Link: UVA Today Summary & Study Details | Journalist's Resource Breakdown

2. The U.S. Department of Education / NCES National Assessment (2006)​

  • Study Title: Comparing Public and Private Schools Using Longitudinal Data
  • Publisher: National Center for Education Statistics (NCES), Institute of Education Sciences
  • Key Finding: Analyzing fourth- and eighth-grade National Assessment of Educational Progress (NAEP) math and reading scores across thousands of schools nationwide, the report adjusted for student-level background characteristics (race, income, parental education, special education status). The researchers concluded that differences in test scores between public and private school students were largely attributable to characteristics of the students themselves, rather than the type of school attended.
  • Link: NCES Public vs. Private School Performance Data

3. International PISA Data / OECD Reports​

  • Study Title: PISA Data Clusters Reveal Student and School Inequality
  • Publisher: OECD / PLOS ONE
  • Key Finding: Analyzing international reading, math, and science test performance across 70+ participating countries, OECD researchers evaluated the performance of private versus public schools. The report concluded that while private school students score higher on average, the private school advantage disappears in almost every developed country once student and school-level socioeconomic status are controlled.
  • Link: PLOS ONE Open-Access Study | OECD Policy Framework

4. Center on Education Policy (CEP) High School Studies​

  • Study Title: Are Private Schools Better?
  • Publisher: Center on Education Policy
  • Key Finding: Reviewing National Education Longitudinal Study (NELS) data tracking students through high school, college, and the workforce, CEP examined SAT scores, college graduation rates, and job placement. The analysis found that public school students with educated, middle-to-high-income parents scored just as well on the SAT and completed college degrees at the same rates as their peers in private schools.
  • Link: Public vs. Private School Statistics Summary

How to Access Full Papers​

  • Most peer-reviewed journal papers (such as the UVA study in Educational Researcher) can be accessed via academic library databases (JSTOR, ERIC) or Google Scholar using the study titles above.
  • Federal and international reports (NCES and OECD/PISA) are fully open to the public on government domains (.gov and oecd.org).
 

Jfcarter3

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Go have kids if you can find someone to procreate with, send kids to public school and conduct experiment, collect results. Hopefully you are correct and they don’t suffer for your ignorance and hubris. It’ll only be their whole life.
 
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Go have kids if you can find someone to procreate with, send kids to public school and conduct experiment, collect results. Hopefully you are correct and they don’t suffer for your ignorance and hubris. It’ll only be their whole life.
Seriously though... do you not appreciate the difference between analytical study of a question and simple anecdote?

You don't feel the need for a bit of clarification on your point here beyond your anecdotes? Maybe some serious study backing your position?

To an extent we're talking past each other -- although I went out of my way note where I wasn't attempting to address a specific concern you have.

But you're probably really religious... I probably shouldn't expect any more than this.
 

Jfcarter3

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Not really religious at all, spiritual perhaps, but not overly religious. At the end of the day, I don’t actual care about the things you set forth or your point. I am living it. I have friends and family with first hand experience so I put little value in what someone else says who isn’t living it or having those experiences but insists they are positive of the experience’s attributes and outcomes, trials and tribulations nonetheless.
 
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m.knox

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You have no clue what you’re talking about.

And it shows. Right, wrong, or indifferent, parents are predominately to blame for the problems in public schools. They expect you to raise their kid from 7:30 - 3:30 so they can be their friend. But in so doing, you can’t discipline them, take their phone, and whatever happens the parent is going to take their precious angel’s side no matter what. Then you have attitude problems and disrupters in class that can’t be sent anywhere. So while the teacher is engaged in the equivalent of crowd control, they are not teaching. Now, you can have similar issues in private school, but they are just asked not to come back. Problem solved. Private school is also about smaller classes and forced discipline. The curriculum is more rigorous because it can be. The school can also drive home morals and spiritual teaching that are constantly reinforced. It’s a better environment all the way around. And I have kids that have been to both.

I actually agree with you here. Families need to value education. If the family values education, I definitely believe that any educational experience will be more valuable.

That said, the democratic - educational complex is indeed failing kids due to absurd ideology. "Equity" is not more important than mathematics. "Gender" is not more important than reading comprehension. They are turning education into indoctrination.
 

baltimorened

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Hate to break it to you, but that is not a "left" thing. That's a dumb @SS parent thing. Am more aware than I wish I was of parents both left and MAGA who fall into this dismal trap.
every action has an equal and opposite reaction. In education, the poor results, the cultural changes and the voucher systems are fueling departures from the public school system and feeding private schools. I know that in florida we're seeing fewer students in public schools which is having significant negative financial consequenses.

Now parents have choices which schools their children will attend. And at least some families are choosing a path different from public schools.
 

baltimorened

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May 29, 2001
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You have no clue what you’re talking about.

And it shows. Right, wrong, or indifferent, parents are predominately to blame for the problems in public schools. They expect you to raise their kid from 7:30 - 3:30 so they can be their friend. But in so doing, you can’t discipline them, take their phone, and whatever happens the parent is going to take their precious angel’s side no matter what. Then you have attitude problems and disrupters in class that can’t be sent anywhere. So while the teacher is engaged in the equivalent of crowd control, they are not teaching. Now, you can have similar issues in private school, but they are just asked not to come back. Problem solved. Private school is also about smaller classes and forced discipline. The curriculum is more rigorous because it can be. The school can also drive home morals and spiritual teaching that are constantly reinforced. It’s a better environment all the way around. And I have kids that have been to both.
I believe you're correct about parents "disinterest" (might not be the right word)

Today we have a lot more two worker families and when both get home, in many families, the parents are too tired or too disinterested.

I know this sounds extreme, but to me it seems as if in school you have two classes of the same grade..one class is for those who want to learn and the other is for the kids who are just there. You put a teacher in the first and a retired Marine or army drill sergeant in the other.

Not ideal for sure, but at least those that want to learn aren't constantly distracted by those that just want to be disruptive. It's probably somehow illegal though
 
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baltimorened

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And I am telling you it is not going to meet those needs. I actually have kids that have been to both and have teachers in my family. They do not get to teach what they would like to/should because of the discipline problems. Real discipline problems. Yours is theoretical, mine is actual.
had a friend whose daughter who taught in Chicago schools. She had to take a mandatory hand to hand class.
 

Jfcarter3

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I believe you're correct about parents "disinterest" (might not be the right word)

Today we have a lot more two worker families and when both get home, in many families, the parents are too tired or too disinterested.

I know this sounds extreme, but to me it seems as if in school you have two classes of the same grade..one class is for those who want to learn and the other is for the kids who are just there. You put a teacher in the first and a retired Marine or army drill sergeant in the other.

Not ideal for sure, but at least those that want to learn aren't constantly distracted by those that just want to be disruptive. It's probably somehow illegal though
I could get onboard with the above because of the below.
had a friend whose daughter who taught in Chicago schools. She had to take a mandatory hand to hand class.
 

Aardvark86

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On balance, public schools do ok considering the size and scope of population-based education in this country. Think of it like food production -- sure, we might all love to eat locally grown and prepared products, but when you have a population of 300MM+ to feed over a continent-sized area, problems of production, preservation, and distribution can sometimes force some hard realities into the equation and lead to homogenization which tends to leave quality, variety and innovation behind.

Setting aside the political comments, which to be clear do have some ring of truth to them, IMO one of the bigger root causes of poor education is the diffusion of mission. For whatever reason, public schools have essentially become a much broader locus for delivery of a wide variety of social services well beyond "education." Predictably, the educational mission has lost its focus and suffered. And the outcomes tend to percolate to other parts of the system. If Cardinal Neuman argued that the purpose of educational institutions (or at least universities) was the dissemination of knowledge, and Jaro Pelikan argued that it also included the development of knowledge, I'm not sure what the Field Medal award winners referenced in this article think it is...

 
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Rastafarian

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The amount of slop you post is absurd. Look at the states with the best public education and what way they lean. Then look at the worst states for public education and see what way they lean.

the lack of critical thinking on this board is astounding at times.
 

PedMaller2

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Sep 24, 2026
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You understand anecdote vs comprehensive study as it pertains to question like this, right?

Go look it up yourself, for a given student of X socio-economic status (middle income or higher, college educated) the student doesn't produce better test scores (ACT/SAT) or other similar achievement at private over public education offering.

I don't doubt there are more discipline issues in (certain) public schooling situations. But by and large, it's not an impediment for a student from a good family situation.

Raw national data often shows private school students outscoring public school students on the SAT and ACT by a significant margin. However, when researchers control for family income, parental education levels, and home learning resources, that score gap narrows to near zero. It's those items and not the school that drive the outcome. Get it?
That’s why school choice/ESA’s (like we have in Iowa) is so important.

As an example, families that live in the awful, libtard-run Des Moines schools can now afford to send their kids to far better Dowling Catholic or DM Christian. They get $8k/year from the state, which mostly covers tuition (Dowling ~$11k/yr, plus some covered by donation scholarships).
 
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