You saw it here. We are getting Universal Income.

[THE_DEVIL]

 

[MTTiger19]

This news to you? Elon has been saying that for years.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

This news to you? Elon has been saying that for years.

I do believe the POTUS being involved makes it news, don't you?

Also, is universal income would seem to be the epitome of a socialism/communism country? (whichever definition is definition of the day for repubs)

 

[MTTiger19]

I do believe the POTUS being involved makes it news, don't you?

Also, is universal income would seem to be the epitome of a socialism/communism country? (whichever definition is definition of the day for repubs)

Not really. Presidents are constantly saying dumb ****. No child left behind, get vaxxed or die, etc…. Trump is most likely just parroting what Elon has been saying. I also will be shocked if that ever comes to fruition. The technological advances in the last 40-50 years have been unbelievable and we still need labor. Maybe fewer people will need to do menial work, part of what we do as automation integration is automate processes that people normally do so PLC’s and robots can perform the tasks. Still need people, just not as many and not stacking boxes or doing work like that.

edit: bc of what I do I hear about this all the time. What do you think?

 

[Rastafarian]

Not really. Presidents are constantly saying dumb ****. No child left behind, get vaxxed or die, etc…. Trump is most likely just parroting what Elon has been saying. I also will be shocked if that ever comes to fruition. The technological advances in the last 40-50 years have been unbelievable and we still need labor. Maybe fewer people will need to do menial work, part of what we do as automation integration is automate processes that people normally do so PLC’s and robots can perform the tasks. Still need people, just not as many and not stacking boxes or doing work like that.

edit: bc of what I do I hear about this all the time. What do you think?

You have no clue what you are talking about.

 

[m.knox]

FREE MONEY!

Democrats are going to come out in droves for Trump now. They love them FREE MONEY.

 

[scotchtiger]

I do think it will become a more relevant topic as AI and robotics take over so many jobs. I don't know where this will all lead, but I am concerned for widespread employment opportunities in the future.

 

[MTTiger19]

You have no clue what you are talking about.

You feel better now Nancy? Great post. Very thought provoking.

 

[Gibbs6]

I mean what’s the point in even working in the future. Just get AI and robots to do everything while humans sit back and relax. We can finally enjoy life and no one needs to fight over anything as everyone will have the same income.

 

[baltimorened]

I do believe the POTUS being involved makes it news, don't you?

Also, is universal income would seem to be the epitome of a socialism/communism country? (whichever definition is definition of the day for repubs)

see, trump is coming around to the socialist platform. I'd think democrats would be ecstatic. Of course, if Trump is proposing it, expect Schumer, Harris and Jeffries to be against it..

 

[THE_DEVIL]

Not really. Presidents are constantly saying dumb ****. No child left behind, get vaxxed or die, etc…. Trump is most likely just parroting what Elon has been saying. I also will be shocked if that ever comes to fruition. The technological advances in the last 40-50 years have been unbelievable and we still need labor. Maybe fewer people will need to do menial work, part of what we do as automation integration is automate processes that people normally do so PLC’s and robots can perform the tasks. Still need people, just not as many and not stacking boxes or doing work like that.

edit: bc of what I do I hear about this all the time. What do you think?

I think The POTUS and the head of DOGE should be taken at their word. I mean look at all the money saved and restructuring of government dollar savings that Musk produced. He is a serious dude and the president trusts him completely.

If THE_DEVIL were president he would sign a Universal Income on day one. Its like Bobby Knight once said, " If you are going to get raped..."

This is kinda cool

 

[THE_DEVIL]

see, trump is coming around to the socialist platform. I'd think democrats would be ecstatic. Of course, if Trump is proposing it, expect Schumer, Harris and Jeffries to be against it..

Generally speaking I try to stay away from praising known pedophiles. So there is that. Personally the sooner we get to UI the better.

 

[Rastafarian]

You feel better now Nancy? Great post. Very thought provoking.

Wasn’t about feeling better but instead encouraging you to go read about the subject because you clearly don’t know what you are talking about.

68% of knowledge work can be replaced by agents.

Robotics foundational models are rapidly improving and approaching general purpose intelligence.

What we’ve seen in the last 50 years will be a blip compared to the next 5.

 

[baltimorened]

Generally speaking I try to stay away from praising known pedophiles. So there is that. Personally the sooner we get to UI the better.

so if nobody is working, and no personal income tax as revenue, where does the money come from for UBI???? what is the economic impact?

from what I've read, one we dismantle the safety net - welfare, snap, Medicaid, etc - and do away with the government infrastructure that makes these payments, those at the bottom of todays "food chain" would last about 6 months before calling for a return to the old system. A UBI system would require personal accountability to budget the money for necessities. I'm not sure that is our DNA

 

[THE_DEVIL]

so if nobody is working, and no personal income tax as revenue, where does the money come from for UBI???? what is the economic impact?

from what I've read, one we dismantle the safety net - welfare, snap, Medicaid, etc - and do away with the government infrastructure that makes these payments, those at the bottom of todays "food chain" would last about 6 months before calling for a return to the old system. A UBI system would require personal accountability to budget the money for necessities. I'm not sure that is our DNA

so if nobody is working, and no personal income tax as revenue, where does the money come from for UBI???? what is the economic impact?

from what I've read, one we dismantle the safety net - welfare, snap, Medicaid, etc - and do away with the government infrastructure that makes these payments, those at the bottom of todays "food chain" would last about 6 months before calling for a return to the old system. A UBI system would require personal accountability to budget the money for necessities. I'm not sure that is our DNA

I say bring it on. Bring it all on

 

[TigerRagRob]

I mean what’s the point in even working in the future. Just get AI and robots to do everything while humans sit back and relax. We can finally enjoy life and no one needs to fight over anything as everyone will have the same income.

So instead of working 16-18 hours a day I can just play Madden all day?

 

[DailyBuck7]

so if nobody is working, and no personal income tax as revenue, where does the money come from for UBI???? what is the economic impact?

from what I've read, one we dismantle the safety net - welfare, snap, Medicaid, etc - and do away with the government infrastructure that makes these payments, those at the bottom of todays "food chain" would last about 6 months before calling for a return to the old system. A UBI system would require personal accountability to budget the money for necessities. I'm not sure that is our DNA

The whole point of work is to protect yourself against the environment and manipulate it. For instance you build houses, to protect you from the rain and from extreme heat and cold. If AI does that and many other things, there are much fewer jobs and less need for people to make things and do things that will protect them from the environment. As an example of how powerful AI is even now, as part of social media advertising my son does some film work. Yesterday he said in 5 minutes using AI he got done what would have been one week's worth of animation.

Also, as a lawyer I can see AI greatly reducing the time it takes to do various tasks. For instance, it might take 20 hours to draw up a complex lease for a business renting a large office space. With AI there's no reason you can't do it in 2 hours.

I am not saying that eliminating work or lots of work is a good thing, because work does provide meaning to the human psyche, but we are approaching the time where a large amount of work will not be necessary.

 

[baltimorened]

I say bring it on. Bring it all on

It's a wonderful idea, just like free child care, Medicare for all , and all the other "free" programs. My only question is how to pay for them. You can only tax the rich for so long until they're no richer than the person receiving all the benefits. At some point even the billionaires run out of money

 

[Jfcarter3]

This is kinda cool

It is. And if that thing has any component or sub component that can receive RF that is not made in the US, then that machine most likely cannot be marketed, sold, etc. in the US effective 7/28/26 so sayeth the Dept of War via the FCC if it is a new model.

 

[MTTiger19]

It's a wonderful idea, just like free child care, Medicare for all , and all the other "free" programs. My only question is how to pay for them. You can only tax the rich for so long until they're no richer than the person receiving all the benefits. At some point even the billionaires run out of money

The problem with free is it’s not free. Are doctors, nurses, hospitals, etc going to start working for free? Are teachers and caretakers going to work for free? The answer is painfully obvious - no. So how are you going to pay them? That answer is also painfully obvious - redistribution of wealth through taxation. What quality of healthcare and childcare do you think you’ll get when governments subsidize the entire thing? The answer is painfully obvious - imagine your DMV experience when you need medical attention. What programs are you gonna cut to fund this new free healthcare and childcare program? The answer is also painfully obvious - none, libs want free everything for everyone. The sooner people, but specifically liberals, start understanding NOTHING is free the better off everyone will be. Resources are finite, always have been, always will be.

 

[FLaw47]

I do think it will become a more relevant topic as AI and robotics take over so many jobs. I don't know where this will all lead, but I am concerned for widespread employment opportunities in the future.

At some vague point in the distant future, some form of socialism and/or universal basic income will be the only ethical solution for our society. I'm not saying we're anywhere close to that. The alternative is all of the anarcho-capitalism dystopian TV shows we've seen.

 

[THE_DEVIL]

It's a wonderful idea, just like free child care, Medicare for all , and all the other "free" programs. My only question is how to pay for them. You can only tax the rich for so long until they're no richer than the person receiving all the benefits. At some point even the billionaires run out of money

Sounds good to me. Let the top one percent run out of money. There are plenty of people in other countries that will be more than able to take advantage of the situation. The poors will still be destitute so what is the downside for them

 

[MTTiger19]

Sounds good to me. Let the top one percent run out of money. There are plenty of people in other countries that will be more than able to take advantage of the situation. The poors will still be destitute so what is the downside for them

So replace the American top 1% with foreign top 1%. This is groundbreaking. You should run for office, I’m sure people would be lining up to let people in other countries “take advantage of the situation” lol. Dork.

 

[Rifler]

I don't want universal income,.. Don't want the pay cut.

 

[Rastafarian]

The whole point of work is to protect yourself against the environment and manipulate it. For instance you build houses, to protect you from the rain and from extreme heat and cold. If AI does that and many other things, there are much fewer jobs and less need for people to make things and do things that will protect them from the environment. As an example of how powerful AI is even now, as part of social media advertising my son does some film work. Yesterday he said in 5 minutes using AI he got done what would have been one week's worth of animation.

Also, as a lawyer I can see AI greatly reducing the time it takes to do various tasks. For instance, it might take 20 hours to draw up a complex lease for a business renting a large office space. With AI there's no reason you can't do it in 2 hours.

I am not saying that eliminating work or lots of work is a good thing, because work does provide meaning to the human psyche, but we are approaching the time where a large amount of work will not be necessary.

You’ve got to be the worst lawyer in the world.

and yes, AI is coming for your job and it won’t take AI two hours for a ******* office lease. The days of idiot lawyers milking the clock on their clients is coming to an end.

 

[baltimorened]

At some vague point in the distant future, some form of socialism and/or universal basic income will be the only ethical solution for our society. I'm not saying we're anywhere close to that. The alternative is all of the anarcho-capitalism dystopian TV shows we've seen.

why do you say ethical? taking from one to give to the other is ethical??

I think we might be living in our own minds in our time. I watched a documentary on theordore Roosevelt last night. So he was president about 1901...some of the biggest problems at the time,,,,wealth inequality at much, much, much greater levels than today. There has been weather in quality in the world since the writing of the bible.

All those who week to think in ethical terms perceive that money is going from billionaires to people who just can't support themselves. But in reality, what we're asking, at least in many cases, is for someone to work, go to school, look for work 20 hours a week, or not buy sugary drinks or Twinkies with money provided for food, and those people are called unethical.

The vast majority of Americans go to work, earn a median income of about $85,000, trying to put food on the table, and we're asking them to pay taxes to support the group I mentioned above. That's ethical??

 

[FLaw47]

why do you say ethical? taking from one to give to the other is ethical??

I think we might be living in our own minds in our time. I watched a documentary on theordore Roosevelt last night. So he was president about 1901...some of the biggest problems at the time,,,,wealth inequality at much, much, much greater levels than today. There has been weather in quality in the world since the writing of the bible.

All those who week to think in ethical terms perceive that money is going from billionaires to people who just can't support themselves. But in reality, what we're asking, at least in many cases, is for someone to work, go to school, look for work 20 hours a week, or not buy sugary drinks or Twinkies with money provided for food, and those people are called unethical.

The vast majority of Americans go to work, earn a median income of about $85,000, trying to put food on the table, and we're asking them to pay taxes to support the group I mentioned above. That's ethical??

I can spell it out for you or you can try and imagine, for a moment, what the world might look like when automation (a long time from now) has removed the need for >50% of jobs and half of our "working age" population is unemployed because there is simply no work.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

That was actually a very good comment, even if he dodged the question and you don't believe everything he said.

 

[What Would Jesus Do?]

Not really. Presidents are constantly saying dumb ****. No child left behind, get vaxxed or die, etc…. Trump is most likely just parroting what Elon has been saying. I also will be shocked if that ever comes to fruition. The technological advances in the last 40-50 years have been unbelievable and we still need labor. Maybe fewer people will need to do menial work, part of what we do as automation integration is automate processes that people normally do so PLC’s and robots can perform the tasks. Still need people, just not as many and not stacking boxes or doing work like that.

edit: bc of what I do I hear about this all the time. What do you think?

The Tech Revolution up to AI saw the loss of lots of "real work" but not necessarily loss of overall employment. First we became a financial economy (vs an industrial economy), then a service economy, and lately there's been a huge rise in internet influencers and gig workers.

The problem is that this AI revolution is looking like the first revolution that won't generate meaningful new categories of employment.

Cars replaced horses and buggies, but created new car worker jobs. Computers replaced people doing manual bookkeeping and such, but created new IT jobs. AI will definitely take over a lot of jobs but it's not clear that there will be a new class of AI workers that will absorb even a meaningful fraction of those idled workers.

 

[baltimorened]

I can spell it out for you or you can try and imagine, for a moment, what the world might look like when automation (a long time from now) has removed the need for >50% of jobs and half of our "working age" population is unemployed because there is simply no work.

that's a loooong way off. There will always be a need for people to fix hvacs cars etc. Back in the 1900s, people built buggies, and were concerned when the gas powered car put those workers out of work.

But if nobody is working as you surmise, where does the money come from for the UBI? Billionaires are going to be taxed, there's only about 1000 of them and as they're taxed their net worth declines until they too run out of money...and who is going to buy their assets to generate liquidity...It all sounds great....free money, free healthcare, free childcare, free housing. i'm all for it, but when housing is free for example, what happens to the value of the houses people already own...or with free healthcare, what happens to all the administrative people working in hospitals, the insurance companies etc....

i'm not sure folks on the left have thought all this through. You can argue the opposite, but few of the goals that were laid out have come to fruition. I'll submit it would be a lot better to fix what we have rather than burn everything down

Insofar as all the free stuff, like I said I'm all for it if you can show where the money comes from.

 

[FLaw47]

that's a loooong way off. There will always be a need for people to fix hvacs cars etc. Back in the 1900s, people built buggies, and were concerned when the gas powered car put those workers out of work.

But if nobody is working as you surmise, where does the money come from for the UBI? Billionaires are going to be taxed, there's only about 1000 of them and as they're taxed their net worth declines until they too run out of money...and who is going to buy their assets to generate liquidity...It all sounds great....free money, free healthcare, free childcare, free housing. i'm all for it, but when housing is free for example, what happens to the value of the houses people already own...or with free healthcare, what happens to all the administrative people working in hospitals, the insurance companies etc....

i'm not sure folks on the left have thought all this through. You can argue the opposite, but few of the goals that were laid out have come to fruition. I'll submit it would be a lot better to fix what we have rather than burn everything down

Insofar as all the free stuff, like I said I'm all for it if you can show where the money comes from.

I believe I was repeatedly explicit that this is a long ways off. In this hypothetical the well off would be profoundly more well off and we'd have to ensure that all the automation would be available to everyone.

 

[fskillet]

that's a loooong way off. There will always be a need for people to fix hvacs cars etc. Back in the 1900s, people built buggies, and were concerned when the gas powered car put those workers out of work.

But if nobody is working as you surmise, where does the money come from for the UBI? Billionaires are going to be taxed, there's only about 1000 of them and as they're taxed their net worth declines until they too run out of money...and who is going to buy their assets to generate liquidity...It all sounds great....free money, free healthcare, free childcare, free housing. i'm all for it, but when housing is free for example, what happens to the value of the houses people already own...or with free healthcare, what happens to all the administrative people working in hospitals, the insurance companies etc....

i'm not sure folks on the left have thought all this through. You can argue the opposite, but few of the goals that were laid out have come to fruition. I'll submit it would be a lot better to fix what we have rather than burn everything down

Insofar as all the free stuff, like I said I'm all for it if you can show where the money comes from.

To be fair, it’s not just the left talking UBI. Seems to be pretty prevalent in the tech world which is undoubtedly right wing right now and full of billionaires

 

[DailyBuck7]

You’ve got to be the worst lawyer in the world.

and yes, AI is coming for your job and it won’t take AI two hours for a ******* office lease. The days of idiot lawyers milking the clock on their clients is coming to an end.

You have zero idea of what you are talking about. I was talking about 5 or 6 floors in a large office bldg and maybe a 10 yr. lease. I just took 2 ai, continuing legal education cases in the last 10 days, and one of them was focused on real estate. The world is not as simple as you think it is. These are not cookie cutter leases. I can only hope you do your own leases or have a bargain basement lawyer do one for you.

 

[baltimorened]

To be fair, it’s not just the left talking UBI. Seems to be pretty prevalent in the tech world which is undoubtedly right wing right now and full of billionaires

I understand...UBI has now become a political thought on both sides. But the question remains, where does the money come from?

 

[UrHuckleberry]

So instead of working 16-18 hours a day I can just play Madden all day?

What do you do where you’re working 18 hour days?

 

[fskillet]

I understand...UBI has now become a political thought on both sides. But the question remains, where does the money come from?

No clue I’m not advocating for it

 

[Rastafarian]

You have zero idea of what you are talking about. I was talking about 5 or 6 floors in a large office bldg and maybe a 10 yr. lease. I just took 2 ai, continuing legal education cases in the last 10 days, and one of them was focused on real estate. The world is not as simple as you think it is. These are not cookie cutter leases. I can only hope you do your own leases or have a bargain basement lawyer do one for you.

Two CE courses?!? Wow! You must be an expert now!

 

[DailyBuck7]

Two CE courses?!? Wow! You must be an expert now!

6 hours of specialized attention to real estate given by national experts on ai and the law is way more time then you have spent looking at the issue. Also, my son through his work in filming and social media is at the very frontier of ai. You should be embarrassed about your ignorance, but you undoubtedly are not. I sincerely wish that you act on your "knowledge" and get the results that you deserve.

 

[Rastafarian]

6 hours of specialized attention to real estate given by national experts on ai and the law is way more time then you have spent looking at the issue. Also, my son through his work in filming and social media is at the very frontier of ai. You should be embarrassed about your ignorance, but you undoubtedly are not. I sincerely wish that you act on your "knowledge" and get the results that you deserve.

 

[scotchtiger]

I can spell it out for you or you can try and imagine, for a moment, what the world might look like when automation (a long time from now) has removed the need for >50% of jobs and half of our "working age" population is unemployed because there is simply no work.

I’m with you on the jobs concern. I worry about this big time for my kids. AI, advanced robotics, etc will wipe out massive amounts of jobs. Maybe something else replaces those jobs, but I’m not sure.