NYT: Cost of Roster

[OptionBob]

Overall I agree but there are some (very simple) maths issues in your text

Thank you for correcting my inexcusable errors. I admit to being on the opposite end of the LionJim line.

The span from 1967 to 1996 was 30 years, not 20 as I embarrassingly stated. That means Penn State was an A-level program for only 14 of 30 seasons. Not bad but not quite so awesome, either.

I apologize for such simple mathematical mistakes, and I will try to be more careful in the future. I only wish I could blame old age as the culprit, but I don't
think I can.

 

[Warlerski]

Univ. are getting creative in ways to make more money. Greystar would be happy to build one to go with the new dorm complex. Much more appealing that the endzone suites, .

Tennessee is going the way of others. A football megaprogram with an increasingly irrelevant university attached.

 

[Catch1lion]

Tennessee is going the way of others. A football megaprogram with an increasingly irrelevant university attached.

IDK. Applications to SEC schools are way up over their Northern counterparts . Kids want sunshine and SEC coeds.

Google Search

 

[bdgan]

The rift is pretty well known and Franklin was assured that NIL would not suffer from the stadium fund donation (fundraising). When support for the project was tepid in some areas, Kraft even asked Franklin to speak in support (which he did) Until June of 2025 as the new NIL rules approached (7/1) and there was no cash to sign the likes of Luke Wafle.
Your next to last sentence reflects my point. You may not get a 10 million donor to give an additional 3 million to the collective, but would PSU be in a better spot if that 10 million had been shared between a stadium project and the roster?
I've been ostracized for consistently insisting that if recruiting doesn't improve, I don't care who the coach is, PSU will continue to place 3rd (at best) or (5th) at worst I hope....in the conference.
The loyal experts have insisted that Campbell makes wine from water and that money is being horded for a lavish dive into the portal. This survey is evidence that PSU doesn't have funds to acquire premier talent in the portal.
I don't think it's coincidence or a change of heart that is behind the recent willingness to acknowledge Joe. I think it's a desperate attempt to bring back potential donors that were lost because of the way Joe was treated.

We agree that it's difficult to finish top 12 if your recruiting is only top 20.

We seem to disagree that we could take stadium donations to pay NIL. That's up to the donor. We don't know if Kraft encouraged a $10 million stadium donor to cut it to $7 million and donate the $3 million to NIL.

 

[Marshall2323]

We agree that it's difficult to finish top 12 if your recruiting is only top 20.

We seem to disagree that we could take stadium donations to pay NIL. That's up to the donor. We don't know if Kraft encouraged a $10 million stadium donor to cut it to $7 million and donate the $3 million to NIL.

Since Kraft "stuck his neck out" to meet the 20% figure and there was opposition or at least speculation about the scope of the project.....I'm going to stick with the belief that the stadium project was his goal #1.
IMO, what is wrong with that is that in the current climate of what used to be college football .....selling luxury boxes and increasing season ticket prices may be difficult when your roster is #22 in the country.
Back in the day. playing in a stadium like Beaver was a recruiting edge. Today, a kid would play in a parking lot if you write him a big enough check.
In any event, I always appreciate thoughtful and respectful dialog.

 

[Catch1lion]

Since Kraft "stuck his neck out" to meet the 20% figure and there was opposition or at least speculation about the scope of the project.....I'm going to stick with the belief that the stadium project was his goal #1.
IMO, what is wrong with that is that in the current climate of what used to be college football .....selling luxury boxes and increasing season ticket prices may be difficult when your roster is #22 in the country.
Back in the day. playing in a stadium like Beaver was a recruiting edge. Today, a kid would play in a parking lot if you write him a big enough check.
In any event, I always appreciate thoughtful and respectful dialog.

Back in the day. playing in a stadium like Beaver was a recruiting edge. Today, a kid would play in a parking lot if you write him a big enough check.----- This is vindicated by the fact that a few pretty good kids play in a parking lot just off the 3 rivers in Pittsburgh.

Home opener with yellow accents...

 

[Marshall2323]

Back in the day. playing in a stadium like Beaver was a recruiting edge. Today, a kid would play in a parking lot if you write him a big enough check.----- This is vindicated by the fact that a few pretty good kids play in a parking lot just off the 3 rivers in Pittsburgh.
Home opener with yellow accents...

USC has the same problem. But to my point, they seem to have no problem recruiting top talent. 2026 class was #2 according to rivals.

 

[JoeLion]

This may be a dumb question but is there any type of business accounting or compensation approach to NIL? You know your number of FTEs. How much of your compensation budget is allotted to let’s say the offense? Is it broken down by position group etc. or is it truly subjective and all wiley-neely ?

 

[Catch1lion]

This may be a dumb question but is there any type of business accounting or compensation approach to NIL? You know your number of FTEs. How much of your compensation budget is allotted to let’s say the offense? Is it broken down by position group etc. or is it truly subjective and all wiley-neely ?

IIRC ,Derek Hoodjer, PSU GM, said something like tries to plot a survery of what NIL is nationally for each position and the talent level of the player. Since these NIL numbers are not transparent, I would gather it takes a lot of back door research. Then he must budget out a team just like in the NFL. I found a video interview which I am just viewing now.

 

[Marshall2323]

This may be a dumb question but is there any type of business accounting or compensation approach to NIL? You know your number of FTEs. How much of your compensation budget is allotted to let’s say the offense? Is it broken down by position group etc. or is it truly subjective and all wiley-neely ?

Here's my guess. I'll bet that many if not most programs adopted a (modified) NFL plan. Take your total NIL war chest and allocate a percentage of it to each position. NFL premium positions are QB, WR, Edge, LT, Corner etc. and they get the bigger percentages of the pie.

 

[bdgan]

IIRC ,Derek Hoodjer, PSU GM, said something like tries to plot a survery of what NIL is nationally for each position and the talent level of the player. Since these NIL numbers are not transparent, I would gather it takes a lot of back door research. Then he must budget out a team just like in the NFL. I found a video interview which I am just viewing now.

Interviewing the GM is a great idea but to be honest he didn't say much (probably because he can't). Some thoughts on things he did and didn't say:

• I found it interesting that he talked about finding kids that fit the culture but he didn't say much about an academic fit.
• When asked about getting NIL donors he said he tries to "educate" them about the "reality" of college sports. I'm not sure that would do much for me if I was a prospective donor. I might want to know what's in it for me. For example if I had a business what would I get in return for sponsoring a player.
• Hoodjer said he didn't want $$$ to be the reason a kid picks PSU but he also doesn't want $$$ to be the reason a kid doesn't pick PSU. It seems likely that we lost Amare Campbell, Khalil Taylor, and others because of money.
• There was no discussion of how much money we have available to pay players compared to other top teams. He probably know but isn't at liberty to say.

I'm reminded of JoePa saying we want your money but we don't want your two cents. I don't think that works anymore.

 

[psu0408]

A few thoughts:

• If the legislature doesn't fix this, I don't see how this is going to be sustainable long-term for most athletic departments. Take Rutgers for example - $22-23M for a roster that lost to UMass and they're $500m in the hole since joining the Big Ten. Setting aside the mismanagement part of this, outside money that might have otherwise gone to funding the school is now funding NIL. Outside of Notre Dame, I'm surprised more schools haven't cut non-revenue sports.
• There's a long season ahead, but it really seems like you need a minimum spend of $30M to build a competitive roster, and that number will be more like $40M next year. Look at the teams in that $20-25M range - Michigan State, NC State, Northwestern, Arkansas, TCU, Kentucky. Likely battling for 6-6 to 8-4 records and bowl eligibility. Is the ROI that much greater than Pitt, Wake Forest or Houston in the $10-15M range?
• At the top, good luck outbidding OSU, Miami, Oregon or oil country for top portal players. Jeremiah Smith might be making more than the entire Boston College team. Soon enough, we're going to see $70-$100M rosters. Assuming players are limited to only one transfer, you'll see even more competitive bidding wars.
• Saw a graphic recently that the only NFL Rookie QBs making more than the top college guys are Mendoza and Simpson, both first round picks. Unless you're getting a R1 or top of R2 grade, there is no sense declaring early if you're at a premium position.
• From a recruiting standpoint, it almost makes no sense to target the top players unless you have the cash to burn, and expect them to be day 1 starters. Wonder how much socioeconomic factors come into play during the recruiting process, as someone growing up poor is more likely to transfer for a better deal.

 

[Nitt1300]

Reality isn't always pleasant- it's going to cost more than it's worth to continue with this nonsense.

 

[bdgan]

A few thoughts:

• If the legislature doesn't fix this, I don't see how this is going to be sustainable long-term for most athletic departments. Take Rutgers for example - $22-23M for a roster that lost to UMass and they're $500m in the hole since joining the Big Ten. Setting aside the mismanagement part of this, outside money that might have otherwise gone to funding the school is now funding NIL. Outside of Notre Dame, I'm surprised more schools haven't cut non-revenue sports.
• There's a long season ahead, but it really seems like you need a minimum spend of $30M to build a competitive roster, and that number will be more like $40M next year. Look at the teams in that $20-25M range - Michigan State, NC State, Northwestern, Arkansas, TCU, Kentucky. Likely battling for 6-6 to 8-4 records and bowl eligibility. Is the ROI that much greater than Pitt, Wake Forest or Houston in the $10-15M range?
• At the top, good luck outbidding OSU, Miami, Oregon or oil country for top portal players. Jeremiah Smith might be making more than the entire Boston College team. Soon enough, we're going to see $70-$100M rosters. Assuming players are limited to only one transfer, you'll see even more competitive bidding wars.
• Saw a graphic recently that the only NFL Rookie QBs making more than the top college guys are Mendoza and Simpson, both first round picks. Unless you're getting a R1 or top of R2 grade, there is no sense declaring early if you're at a premium position.
• From a recruiting standpoint, it almost makes no sense to target the top players unless you have the cash to burn, and expect them to be day 1 starters. Wonder how much socioeconomic factors come into play during the recruiting process, as someone growing up poor is more likely to transfer for a better deal.

The only thing keeping lower NIL schools alive is conference revenue sharing.

IMO the best way for $20m schools to compete is to invest in OL, DL, and maybe LBs. They don't cost as much as QBs and WRs. If you're lucky you might be able to ground and pound your way to the playoffs every 5-7 years.

$30 million schools like PSU will probably have to root for a 24 team playoff. Buy enough talent to make the playoffs which should be enough to keep the fan base interested.

 

[Nitt1300]

The only thing keeping lower NIL schools alive is conference revenue sharing.

IMO the best way for $20m schools to compete is to invest in OL, DL, and maybe LBs. They don't cost as much as QBs and WRs. If you're lucky you might be able to ground and pound your way to the playoffs every 5-7 years.

$30 million schools like PSU will probably have to root for a 24 team playoff. Buy enough talent to make the playoffs which should be enough to keep the fan base interested.

Championships are the standard- lol

 

[Marshall2323]

Championships are the standard- lol

excellence at the highest level......Pat Kraft

 

[BobPSU92]

Reality isn't always pleasant- it's going to cost more than it's worth to continue with this nonsense.

Penn State’s all in on nonsense.

 

[Marshall2323]

Sounds like CJF was right to keep after them for more resources- Campbell will need to do the same.

Imagine if CJF had not kept their feet to the fire? 7th in the conference as it is. Since he was the 16th highest paid HFC after finishing #5 in 2024, perhaps the nonsense about his "always asking for more" can cease. In fact, it might better be framed, why did CJF have to keep begging for PSU to be 7th in the conference? Where did the narrative come from that PSU went "all in." Inquiring minds should want to know. Let's take it a step further......this explains the inability to fill the HFC position for over 50 days. I'm sure everyone contacted hung up the phone when they were informed of the "massive resources" at their disposal.

 

[JoeLion]

After reading through everything it appears Aller may have taken a pay cut as an NFL QB!

 

[BobPSU92]

Anyone know Buffalo’s payroll? (The Bulls, not the Bills.)

 

[Marshall2323]

After reading through everything it appears Aller may have taken a pay cut as an NFL QB!

That's been the case with SEC players for decades.

 

[Marshall2323]

Anyone know Buffalo’s payroll? (The Bulls, not the Bills.)

Brown bag lunches on free bus trips back to campus after games and complimentary laundry service for soiled uniforms.

 

[LaJollaCreek]

Championships are the standard- lol

It's cute that some really think this still or thought it was just a HC change that will deliver this. Unless something occurs on the financial side...it's a playoff program in some years is about all I see coming.

 

[Marshall2323]

It's cute that some really think this still or thought it was just a HC change that will deliver this. Unless something occurs on the financial side...it's a playoff program in some years is about all I see coming.

But the Vice President in charge of intercollegiate athletics promised excellence at the highest level and the national championship we deserve. He wouldn't mislead us or worse yet, lie.

 

[BobPSU92]

But the Vice President in charge of intercollegiate athletics promised excellence at the highest level and the national championship we deserve. He wouldn't mislead us or worse yet, lie.

He has a Ph.D. He knows what he’s talking about.

 

[Ludd]

Anyone know Buffalo’s payroll? (The Bulls, not the Bills.)

A warm six pack and a bologna sandwich.

 

[Marshall2323]

He has a Ph.D. He knows what he’s talking about.

Makes you wonder what a Ph.D is worth.

 

[Marshall2323]

A warm six pack and a bologna sandwich.

In 1970 we used to get $27 a month. Head to the Green Shingles on the NY border (the legal drinking age was 18) and get a case of Ripple the next day to enjoy until the next payday.