The Official Unbiased Top 10 week 5

Cross Bones

All-Conference
Aug 19, 2001
53,338
4,426
113
1. ESL (3-1) - just keeps chugging along
2. MC (3-1) - tough schedule continues, even the down week is 4-0
3. LWE (4-0) - will anyone in conference challenge?
4. Loyola (4-0) - impressive win over Rice
5. Lyons (4-0) - may be the class in the WSCS
6. Hersey (4-0) - need a test
7. H-F (3-1) - good bounce back win over the Eagles
8. Rochester (4-0) - not sure they will be tested the rest of the reg season
9. DGN (4-0) - allowed an ailing GBW to hang around
10. Prospect (4-0) - game against Hersey cant come soon enough
 
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80sRambler

Junior
Oct 28, 2022
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Unsure about LWE over Loyola. Cathedral (IN) has since had a couple of quality wins, making LA's week 2 win on the road look pretty strong.
 
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Alexander33

All-Conference
Oct 24, 2016
828
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There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
 

PowerI66

Senior
Jul 10, 2025
818
691
93
There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
Wheaton North and Huntley are currently paper tigers
 
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80sRambler

Junior
Oct 28, 2022
318
393
63
There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
I don't understand your lists. Your CCL list is MC > Rice > LA. Here you have LA > MC > Rice. Regardless, don't see how any list doesn't have ESL and MC at 1/2.
 

4Afan

All-Conference
Sep 15, 2001
4,524
4,041
113
There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
Rivals composite has ESL ranked at #27 in the country so safe to say they're still #1 in the state. Loyola is definitely back, but their best win is against Cathedral and they're only 2-2.
 

Alexander33

All-Conference
Oct 24, 2016
828
1,105
93
I don't understand your lists. Your CCL list is MC > Rice > LA. Here you have LA > MC > Rice. Regardless, don't see how any list doesn't have ESL and MC at 1/2.
My compliments to you. You are very observant. However, I do have an explanation.

The CCL list is purely based on a power rating derived from the use of a statistical modeling technique called exponential smoothing. It is designed to provide point spreads for future games and I do not allow myself to use any personal judgment in compiling the ratings or rankings.

The top-25 list, on the other hand, does include a considerable amount of personal judgment by me. While I do follow to some degree a ranking system that I have developed that I call a "Frequency Ranking", I will alter that initial ranking by emphasizing some game results more than others and also by taking a strategic look at upcoming games and how their results may impact the final rankings. As a result, I tend to rank teams where I believe they deserve to be ranked and not necessarily because I believe they are better than another team. And I am patient.

Loyola being ranked number one in the top-25 list provides a good example. I do not think Loyola is better than East St. Louis, although I do think they would be competitive against the Flyers. However, I do know the Ramblers will be playing Mt. Carmel later this year. If Loyola, as did East St. Louis, defeats Mt. Carmel, then, with an unblemished record, I believe they deserve to be ranked higher than the Flyers. If Loyola loses to Mt. Carmel, then it will be an easy decision to promote East St. Louis to the number one ranking. For now, with no losses and three state championships in the last five seasons at the 8A level, Loyola has a higher "Frequency Ranking" than East St. Louis who has one loss and two state championships in the last five seasons at the 6A level. I know the Flyers lost in overtime to a very good team, but the last time I checked that was the only victory that team had this season.

There is certainly ample room for disagreement in this debate, but hopefully I have demonstrated considerable thought has gone into the matter by me.
 

vester71

Redshirt
Feb 24, 2026
19
19
3
1. ESL (3-1) - just keeps chugging along
2. MC (3-1) - tough schedule continues, even the down week is 4-0
3. LWE (4-0) - will anyone in conference challenge?
4. Loyola (4-0) - impressive win over Rice
5. Lyons (4-0) - may be the class in the WSCS
6. Hersey (4-0) - need a test
7. H-F (3-1) - good bounce back win over the Eagles
8. Rochester (4-0) - not sure they will be tested the rest of the reg season
9. DGN (4-0) - allowed an ailing GBW to hang around
10. Prospect (4-0) - game against Hersey cant come soon enough

Unsure about LWE over Loyola. Cathedral (IN) has since had a couple of quality wins, making LA's week 2 win on the road look pretty strong.
As much as I want LWE to be better than Loyola, I don't think I'd rank them higher, but I'd love to be wrong.
 
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80sRambler

Junior
Oct 28, 2022
318
393
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My compliments to you. You are very observant. However, I do have an explanation.

The CCL list is purely based on a power rating derived from the use of a statistical modeling technique called exponential smoothing. It is designed to provide point spreads for future games and I do not allow myself to use any personal judgment in compiling the ratings or rankings.

The top-25 list, on the other hand, does include a considerable amount of personal judgment by me. While I do follow to some degree a ranking system that I have developed that I call a "Frequency Ranking", I will alter that initial ranking by emphasizing some game results more than others and also by taking a strategic look at upcoming games and how their results may impact the final rankings. As a result, I tend to rank teams where I believe they deserve to be ranked and not necessarily because I believe they are better than another team. And I am patient.

Loyola being ranked number one in the top-25 list provides a good example. I do not think Loyola is better than East St. Louis, although I do think they would be competitive against the Flyers. However, I do know the Ramblers will be playing Mt. Carmel later this year. If Loyola, as did East St. Louis, defeats Mt. Carmel, then, with an unblemished record, I believe they deserve to be ranked higher than the Flyers. If Loyola loses to Mt. Carmel, then it will be an easy decision to promote East St. Louis to the number one ranking. For now, with no losses and three state championships in the last five seasons at the 8A level, Loyola has a higher "Frequency Ranking" than East St. Louis who has one loss and two state championships in the last five seasons at the 6A level. I know the Flyers lost in overtime to a very good team, but the last time I checked that was the only victory that team had this season.

There is certainly ample room for disagreement in this debate, but hopefully I have demonstrated considerable thought has gone into the matter by me.
I think ESL would absolutely roll LA. MC could be competitive because they know each other so well (see last year).

While I will agree to disagree on the relevance of the previous five years to HS football rankings, you have proven yourself thoughtful 😉
 

Alexander33

All-Conference
Oct 24, 2016
828
1,105
93
Rivals composite has ESL ranked at #27 in the country so safe to say they're still #1 in the state. Loyola is definitely back, but their best win is against Cathedral and they're only 2-2.
The East St. Louis loss was also to a team that is only 2-2.
 

JZ1983

Redshirt
Oct 10, 2025
32
19
8
There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
Is Plantz leaving Provi? If so why?
 

Alexander33

All-Conference
Oct 24, 2016
828
1,105
93
Wheaton North and Huntley are currently paper tigers
I tried to be reasonably cautious with Wheaton North (ranked 14th), Huntley (ranked 24th), as well as Normal (ranked 19th) and Oak Lawn (ranked 25th). I did so because I agree all four teams are untested. However, every now and then the paper tigers turn out to have actual claws so I like to give them some recognition from time to time.

Wheaton North was not highly regarded back in 2021 before defeating Brother Rice in a semifinal game and St. Rita in the championship game on their way to the 7A title. The same thing was true of Chicago Christian in 2024 before they won the 2A title. Normal Community High School is always considered untested from the Big Twelve Conference for good reason, but they made it to the 7A semifinals in 2023 and then I'm thinking it was the following year in a quarterfinal game they gave Mt. Carmel their toughest game of the playoffs as Mt. Carmel went on to win the 7A championship.

My favorite example, though, was the 2015 1A Arcola team. They played in an incredibly weak conference and were tested by absolutely nobody as they finished the regular season 9-0 with their closest game being a 42-point win. They won their games by an average of 56 points. This was during a stretch where, (other than the 2015 season), Lena-Winslow and Forreston (of the NUIC) were in the midst of winning eight straight 1A championships. Every round of the playoffs Massey was predicting Arcola to lose by something like 20 points, and yet, they went on to win the 2015 championship.

So, yes, every now and then I like to give the paper tigers a little recognition.
 

Wittymoniker1

All-Conference
Aug 6, 2007
5,475
1,868
113
Wheaton North was very highly regarded that year. It was one of their best classes through their high school and middle school careers.

Played Klein Creek a couple of times and got to know some of the workers there. They happened to be former WN players from that Championship team. They will tell you themselves, they were not an underdog and that they were, indeed, highly regarded.

In my honest opinion, that was a pick'em Class 7A Championship game.
 
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Louie1999

Freshman
Sep 13, 2025
54
59
18
There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
I like a lot of this list but would switch out ESTL to #1. I also think Fenwick is far too high. Having watched them in person, I just don't think they are a top 10 team. Their performance against Depaul and JCA clarified to me that the St. Ignatius loss was not just a bad game. They are very well coached, especially on the defensive side of the ball, but I think they would lose to Naz, IC, Montini, Marist, and St. Rita. We will see with this Providence game, but it still won't be that clear if the coaching situation has an effect.
 

Kevin JCHS 1981

Sophomore
Jul 2, 2025
240
174
43
1. ESL (3-1) - just keeps chugging along
2. MC (3-1) - tough schedule continues, even the down week is 4-0
3. LWE (4-0) - will anyone in conference challenge?
4. Loyola (4-0) - impressive win over Rice
5. Lyons (4-0) - may be the class in the WSCS
6. Hersey (4-0) - need a test
7. H-F (3-1) - good bounce back win over the Eagles
8. Rochester (4-0) - not sure they will be tested the rest of the reg season
9. DGN (4-0) - allowed an ailing GBW to hang around
10. Prospect (4-0) - game against Hersey cant come soon enough
1. I would think about switching 3 and 4.
2. Rochester is about right for now.
3. I can't comment the rest of the Publics on your list because the Board Buzzards are already circling this thread, just waiting to whip out their Football "Grammar" Police Badges. :oops:
 

Alexander33

All-Conference
Oct 24, 2016
828
1,105
93
Wheaton North was very highly regarded that year. It was one of their best classes through their high school and middle school careers.

Played Klein Creek a couple of times and got to know some of the workers there. They happened to be former WN players from that Championship team. They will tell you themselves, they were not an underdog and that they were, indeed, highly regarded.

In my honest opinion, that was a pick'em Class 7A Championship game.
With all due respect, that is revisionist history. The fact that the players on the team themselves thought they had a good team is likely to be true of every team entering the playoffs with two losses or less. The fact that the players regarded themselves highly has no meaning.

The truth is they finished in second place in their own conference. During the regular season they lost to Batavia, had a one-point win over Glenbard North and a two-point win over Wheaton-Warrenville South. In the 7A quarterfinals they beat Willowbrook, (not exactly considered a football powerhouse), by seven points. Most people thought Brother Rice would handle them rather easily in the semifinal game and attributed the Wheaton North victory to the fact that the Brother Rice quarterback apparently had a leg injury that seemed to affect his mobility greatly. I will concede that by the time they finally reached the championship game, most people thought that game would be competitive.

At the start of the playoffs Wheaton North in no way was considered one of the 7A favorites. They certainly were not considered a favorite four games into the regular season.
 

Cross Bones

All-Conference
Aug 19, 2001
53,338
4,426
113
Unsure about LWE over Loyola. Cathedral (IN) has since had a couple of quality wins, making LA's week 2 win on the road look pretty strong.
Yup I considered it, but in the end went with LWE but wouldnt argue someone down from swapping the two.
The East St. Louis loss was also to a team that is only 2-2.
Not all teams are the same. IN is not close to IL despite what some of their talking heads may say. New Palestine for example is legit a top 5ish IN team that probably loses to SF if QB1 remains healthy. I dont know where SF is in IL.
 
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PowerI66

Senior
Jul 10, 2025
818
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I tried to be reasonably cautious with Wheaton North (ranked 14th), Huntley (ranked 24th), as well as Normal (ranked 19th) and Oak Lawn (ranked 25th). I did so because I agree all four teams are untested. However, every now and then the paper tigers turn out to have actual claws so I like to give them some recognition from time to time.

Wheaton North was not highly regarded back in 2021 before defeating Brother Rice in a semifinal game and St. Rita in the championship game on their way to the 7A title. The same thing was true of Chicago Christian in 2024 before they won the 2A title. Normal Community High School is always considered untested from the Big Twelve Conference for good reason, but they made it to the 7A semifinals in 2023 and then I'm thinking it was the following year in a quarterfinal game they gave Mt. Carmel their toughest game of the playoffs as Mt. Carmel went on to win the 7A championship.

My favorite example, though, was the 2015 1A Arcola team. They played in an incredibly weak conference and were tested by absolutely nobody as they finished the regular season 9-0 with their closest game being a 42-point win. They won their games by an average of 56 points. This was during a stretch where, (other than the 2015 season), Lena-Winslow and Forreston (of the NUIC) were in the midst of winning eight straight 1A championships. Every round of the playoffs Massey was predicting Arcola to lose by something like 20 points, and yet, they went on to win the 2015 championship.

So, yes, every now and then I like to give the paper tigers a little recognition.
Not when you rank them high. That's why it's important to watch the games and see what they do against common opponents. Do you truly believe Oak Lawn is beating Batavia, Maine South, Fremd, etc? Come on man.
 
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Wittymoniker1

All-Conference
Aug 6, 2007
5,475
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It is not revisionist history. Wheaton North was considered a very highly-regarded team in 2021. Deal with it. Willowbrook had a very good team that year and the weather was brutal when WN faced that WB team. Yes, Willowbrook doesn't have a huge football pedigree, but the year they faced WN in the playoffs, they were a very good and competitive team.

MC barely beat Normal a few years back in the playoffs in a high-scoring affair. It should've been a huge MC victory according to most. MC won state championship that year and had an awesome team. Are you telling me that because MC struggled with Normal, that MC team wasn't considered "highly regarded?" Is that your measuring stick? Are you the poster that picked Marist #1 last year?
 

Cross Bones

All-Conference
Aug 19, 2001
53,338
4,426
113
Regarding that Wheaton N team. In no way were they the favorite going into the game against Rita. However, when it came to execution of a gameplan I dont know that I ever saw better. They looked like the best team all weekend. Whether that would have mattered had they played Lockport or ESL who knows. But they put on a helluva show against SR.
There are a few new names on this top-25 list. We shall see if they can stay there.

1. Loyola (4-0) They will need to remain unbeaten or the Flyers will take over the number one spot.
2. East St. Louis (3-1) Applying pressure on the Ramblers.
3. Mt. Carmel (3-1) St. Patrick is having a good season at 4-0, but should pose no threat.
4. Lincoln-Way East (4-0) Will likely remain unbeaten until the playoffs.
5. Brother Rice (2-2) There are losses and there are losses. Neither of Brother Rice's losses should disqualify them from anyone's top ten.
6. Providence (4-0) Will their intensity decline after the coach's departure?
7. IC Catholic (4-0) Depth can be a problem, but so far so good.
8. Downers Grove North (4-0) Excellent defense and just enough offense.
9. Fenwick (3-1) St. Ignatius is good, but I consider that result to be a genuine upset.
10. Rochester (4-0) Finally giving them what they are due for the remarkable victory over Batavia.


11. Homewood-Flossmoor (3-1)
12. Oswego (3-1)
13. Geneva (3-1)
14. Wheaton North (4-0)
15. Prospect (4-0)
16. Hersey (4-0)
17. Sandburg (3-1)
18. Montini (3-1)
19. Normal (4-0)
20. St. Ignatius (3-1)
21. St. Rita (2-2)
22. Lyons (4-0)
23. Morris (4-0)
24. Huntley (4-0)
25. Oak Lawn (4-0)
I wouldnt argue about 1-5; I would argue about 6-9.
1. I would think about switching 3 and 4.
2. Rochester is about right for now.
3. I can't comment the rest of the Publics on your list because the Board Buzzards are already circling this thread, just waiting to whip out their Football "Grammar" Police Badges. :oops:
1. Fair
2. Yeah but they cant rest on the Batavia game all season and no other games on the schedule/playoffs can make a case unless Batavia wins 7A or Sandburg wins 8A.
3. Get your commas and semicolons in order 😆
 

Wittymoniker1

All-Conference
Aug 6, 2007
5,475
1,868
113
Regarding that Wheaton N team. In no way were they the favorite going into the game against Rita. However, when it came to execution of a gameplan I dont know that I ever saw better. They looked like the best team all weekend. Whether that would have mattered had they played Lockport or ESL who knows. But they put on a helluva show against SR.

I wouldnt argue about 1-5; I would argue about 6-9.

1. Fair
2. Yeah but they cant rest on the Batavia game all season and no other games on the schedule/playoffs can make a case unless Batavia wins 7A or Sandburg wins 8A.
3. Get your commas and semicolons in order 😆
In 2021, Massey had Rita beating WN: 28, 27. To me, that's basically an evenly-matched game--in no way was Rita a strong favorite.

And you are absolutely correct in that WN executed beautifully all-game long. I know that's how Coach Kuska felt as well.
 
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Alexander33

All-Conference
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Not when you rank them high. That's why it's important to watch the games and see what they do against common opponents. Do you truly believe Oak Lawn is beating Batavia, Maine South, Fremd, etc? Come on man.
"Not when you rank them high."

I did not mean to offend your sensibilities. I was providing a top-25 list and used the very last spot to recognize an Oak Lawn team that may be their best team of this century. In the context of their program history over the last 25 years, their achievement would be a more difficult accomplishment than what I foresee Maine South accomplishing this year (in comparison to Maine South's program history over the last 25 years). Still, as I stated at the top of my rankings, "We shall see if they can stay there."

To "stay there" Oak Lawn will need to defeat Richards, remain unbeaten and thereby be the outright conference champion, and win at least a couple of playoff games. I think they have a chance to do those things, although admittedly I'm not sure how good of a chance.

To answer your question, no, I do not think it is likely that 6A Oak Lawn would beat 8A Maine South in a hypothetical matchup this year. I merely think their excellent start to the season is worthy of a little recognition. Please keep in mind, though, that I also did not think 4A Rochester would beat 7A Batavia. Unusual things do happen occasionally.
 

PowerI66

Senior
Jul 10, 2025
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"Not when you rank them high."

I did not mean to offend your sensibilities. I was providing a top-25 list and used the very last spot to recognize an Oak Lawn team that may be their best team of this century. In the context of their program history over the last 25 years, their achievement would be a more difficult accomplishment than what I foresee Maine South accomplishing this year (in comparison to Maine South's program history over the last 25 years). Still, as I stated at the top of my rankings, "We shall see if they can stay there."

To "stay there" Oak Lawn will need to defeat Richards, remain unbeaten and thereby be the outright conference champion, and win at least a couple of playoff games. I think they have a chance to do those things, although admittedly I'm not sure how good of a chance.

To answer your question, no, I do not think it is likely that 6A Oak Lawn would beat 8A Maine South in a hypothetical matchup this year. I merely think their excellent start to the season is worthy of a little recognition. Please keep in mind, though, that I also did not think 4A Rochester would beat 7A Batavia. Unusual things do happen occasionally.
Why not rank 4-0 Conant?
 
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Alexander33

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Why not rank 4-0 Conant?
Although at this point I understand you are just trying to give me a hard time rather than engaging in a meaningful discussion, I will provide you with the courtesy of a response because that is my nature.

In a list of the top 25 teams, there are, of course, only 25 spots available. Not every team, nor even every unbeaten team, is going to make the list. Oak Lawn has a much higher ceiling than Conant, and therefore a much better chance to have a very special season. Conant has won their four games this year by an average margin of victory of 19 points. Conant's largest margin of victory was 21 points. That includes a victory over a Chicago Public League team and an Upstate Eight team that has yet to win a game this year. Such results are not particularly impressive.

Oak Lawn has won their four games by an average margin of victory of 48 points. Oak Lawn's smallest margin of victory was 34 points. Although Oak Lawn's schedule to date has not been difficult, the 34-point win came against Reavis (2-2) whose other loss was to Richards by a similar (though slightly smaller) margin. This suggests that Oak Lawn will have a reasonable chance (though by no means certain) of defeating Richards, which will be a key to them meeting the objectives laid out in my earlier message.

In summary, four games into the season it seems Oak Lawn has a much better chance than Conant of having a very special season.
 

PowerI66

Senior
Jul 10, 2025
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Although at this point I understand you are just trying to give me a hard time rather than engaging in a meaningful discussion, I will provide you with the courtesy of a response because that is my nature.

In a list of the top 25 teams, there are, of course, only 25 spots available. Not every team, nor even every unbeaten team, is going to make the list. Oak Lawn has a much higher ceiling than Conant, and therefore a much better chance to have a very special season. Conant has won their four games this year by an average margin of victory of 19 points. Conant's largest margin of victory was 21 points. That includes a victory over a Chicago Public League team and an Upstate Eight team that has yet to win a game this year. Such results are not particularly impressive.

Oak Lawn has won their four games by an average margin of victory of 48 points. Oak Lawn's smallest margin of victory was 34 points. Although Oak Lawn's schedule to date has not been difficult, the 34-point win came against Reavis (2-2) whose other loss was to Richards by a similar (though slightly smaller) margin. This suggests that Oak Lawn will have a reasonable chance (though by no means certain) of defeating Richards, which will be a key to them meeting the objectives laid out in my earlier message.

In summary, four games into the season it seems Oak Lawn has a much better chance than Conant of having a very special season.
Just giving you a hard time? No, I'm making a point.

Ok, so we are taking performance into consideration after all. Seems contradictory to some of your "it's a nice story" talk. Could any of these teams theoretically beat the others? Sure. Do we also have data to go off of, yes. Maybe consider that data a bit more.

By the way, I was not just singling out Oak Lawn, back to your high ranking of Wheaton North. WN beat Lake Park 24-15. Batavia beat Lake Park 55-7. This begs the question why are you enamored with WN?
 

Alexander33

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Oct 24, 2016
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Just giving you a hard time? No, I'm making a point.

Ok, so we are taking performance into consideration after all. Seems contradictory to some of your "it's a nice story" talk. Could any of these teams theoretically beat the others? Sure. Do we also have data to go off of, yes. Maybe consider that data a bit more.

By the way, I was not just singling out Oak Lawn, back to your high ranking of Wheaton North. WN beat Lake Park 24-15. Batavia beat Lake Park 55-7. This begs the question why are you enamored with WN?
I would not say I am more enamored with Wheaton North than any other team. I do, after all, have 13 other teams ranked ahead of them. Here is what I know to be true.

* When looking at the larger schools (5A through 8A) there are three distinct categories. They are: 1) The Chicago Catholic League (CCL), 2) East St. Louis, and 3) the other public schools. The CCL has won 70% of the state championships over the past five seasons, and that is why six of my top nine ranked teams are from the CCL. East St. Louis is an anomaly in both the manner in which they dominate the Southwestern Conference and the degree to which they schedule difficult out-of-state opponents. East St. Louis is 25-0 against Southwestern Conference opponents over the last five years and ought to be evaluated as if they are an independent school. However, your question was related to Wheaton North and therefore my focus will shift to the other public schools.

* Of the last 20 state champions in the 5A through 8A classes, 18 of them had previously appeared in at least one semifinal playoff game during the previous five years. That is a powerful 90% correlation rate that should not be overlooked in any analysis.

* Of the 15 public high schools (other than East St. Louis) that won a state championship in the 5A through 8A classes during the last ten playoffs, 13 of them had lost either zero games (8) or had lost only one game (5) during the season. That is another powerful correlation rate (87%) that should not be overlooked.

* 45 public high schools (other than East St. Louis) have made at least one semifinal appearance in the 5A through 8A levels over the previous five years. Six conferences have had teams make at least three such appearances (in the aggregate), and those conferences are listed here:
1) Southwest Suburban-6
2) DuKane-6
3) West Suburban (Silver)-6
4) Fox Valley-4
5) Interstate Eight-4
6) North Suburban-3
[Ties have been broken by the number of state championships won by a conference team, and then by the class level at which the championship was won.]

* Based upon the above list, one can make a reasonable case that the DuKane Conference is one of the better large-school public conferences.

* There are currently three teams in the DuKane Conference that have not lost a conference game, have at most one total loss for the season, and have appeared in at least one semifinal playoff game during the past five years. Those teams are Wheaton North, Geneva, and Batavia. It is my contention that one of those three teams is likely to be the conference champion (or perhaps co-champion) and should be ranked somewhere in the top 20. I have Geneva ranked 13th and Wheaton North ranked 14th. It may very well be that Batavia ends up the conference champion and they would certainly be moved up if that is the case, but for now their terrible loss to Rochester is preventing that.

* Please note that Lincoln-Way East is ranked 4th and Downers Grove North is ranked 8th from the other two top public-school conferences.

I know you will retain your right to disagree with all that I have written, but hopefully my reasoning has been adequately explained. I look for strong correlations to guide my conclusions. It may be that Wheaton North falters as the season progresses and falls out of the top 25, and as a more defensively oriented team I do not expect them to run up many wide victory margins, but for now they seem reasonably ranked to me.
 

Kevin JCHS 1981

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Jul 2, 2025
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I would not say I am more enamored with Wheaton North than any other team. I do, after all, have 13 other teams ranked ahead of them. Here is what I know to be true.

* When looking at the larger schools (5A through 8A) there are three distinct categories. They are: 1) The Chicago Catholic League (CCL), 2) East St. Louis, and 3) the other public schools. The CCL has won 70% of the state championships over the past five seasons, and that is why six of my top nine ranked teams are from the CCL. East St. Louis is an anomaly in both the manner in which they dominate the Southwestern Conference and the degree to which they schedule difficult out-of-state opponents. East St. Louis is 25-0 against Southwestern Conference opponents over the last five years and ought to be evaluated as if they are an independent school. However, your question was related to Wheaton North and therefore my focus will shift to the other public schools.

* Of the last 20 state champions in the 5A through 8A classes, 18 of them had previously appeared in at least one semifinal playoff game during the previous five years. That is a powerful 90% correlation rate that should not be overlooked in any analysis.

* Of the 15 public high schools (other than East St. Louis) that won a state championship in the 5A through 8A classes during the last ten playoffs, 13 of them had lost either zero games (8) or had lost only one game (5) during the season. That is another powerful correlation rate (87%) that should not be overlooked.

* 45 public high schools (other than East St. Louis) have made at least one semifinal appearance in the 5A through 8A levels over the previous five years. Six conferences have had teams make at least three such appearances (in the aggregate), and those conferences are listed here:
1) Southwest Suburban-6
2) DuKane-6
3) West Suburban (Silver)-6
4) Fox Valley-4
5) Interstate Eight-4
6) North Suburban-3
[Ties have been broken by the number of state championships won by a conference team, and then by the class level at which the championship was won.]

* Based upon the above list, one can make a reasonable case that the DuKane Conference is one of the better large-school public conferences.

* There are currently three teams in the DuKane Conference that have not lost a conference game, have at most one total loss for the season, and have appeared in at least one semifinal playoff game during the past five years. Those teams are Wheaton North, Geneva, and Batavia. It is my contention that one of those three teams is likely to be the conference champion (or perhaps co-champion) and should be ranked somewhere in the top 20. I have Geneva ranked 13th and Wheaton North ranked 14th. It may very well be that Batavia ends up the conference champion and they would certainly be moved up if that is the case, but for now their terrible loss to Rochester is preventing that.

* Please note that Lincoln-Way East is ranked 4th and Downers Grove North is ranked 8th from the other two top public-school conferences.

I know you will retain your right to disagree with all that I have written, but hopefully my reasoning has been adequately explained. I look for strong correlations to guide my conclusions. It may be that Wheaton North falters as the season progresses and falls out of the top 25, and as a more defensively oriented team I do not expect them to run up many wide victory margins, but for now they seem reasonably ranked to me.
After getting about 1/2 way through your answer (post), I decided:
1) you know way more about HS football than I will ever know.
2) in the future, this will be what will happen when you ask AI a question.
3) the flow of facts and information was bordering on putting me in an info coma.
4) to protect myself in the future, I'm just going to assume you're right.

Have a nice day. :ROFLMAO:
 
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