So Milan broke his finger ?………..
- Thread starter yoshukai
- Start date
Nah Butler and Amari were just ok and reserve level players in my book. Juries out on this year until they take the court.
Butler was an B+ tier college basketball PG
Amari was B+ but actually has lots of potential and can be something in the NBA
Butler B. Amari C. Took dude a long time to get it figured out and he looked completely lost a lot of the time. NBA and potential are not relevant to the discussion.
Stop behaving like a toddler and justify your statements instead of acting like a ***** every time someone disagrees with you.
Lamont Butler as a senior and healthy was an elite level college PG.
You say so. Too bad he wasn’t healthy for more than a game or two so we’ll never know how that would have gone.
You all seem to get some sort of satisfaction from hypothetical results that don’t match the reality we all experienced. I could give a **** about NBA potential and future development once they leave. I’m not a fan of some fantasy you have, I watched the ******* season. They were fun to watch but clearly not top tier and not good enough to get past the Sweet 16 so hard to see “elite” when the result was “sweet”.
The 2025 team made the Sweet 16 pretty comfortably and while they did get hammered hard by Tennessee in that game, it was a team they had already beaten twice that year. We clearly were capable of beating the Vols and making an Elite Eight.
As for Butler and Amari, I think some of the debate is really more about defining “elite” or “good” or whatever. Both Butler and Amari were better than the program average at their positions over the past 25 years. I wouldn’t consider either “elite.” For me, that’s a designation I would reserve for All-American level players and they weren’t that.
From individual skill standpoint, they were much better than their transfer portal rankings/projections prior to the year.
Here’s how I would assess their skills on the year:
Butler
Inside Scoring - C-
Outside Scoring - B
Playmaking - B+
Perimeter Defense - A
Interior Defense - D+
Rebounding - C-
Intangibles - A
Williams
Inside Scoring - B-
Outside Scoring - F
Playmaking - A
Perimeter Defense - D+
Interior Defense - B+
Rebounding - B
Intangibles - A-
As for Butler and Amari, I think some of the debate is really more about defining “elite” or “good” or whatever. Both Butler and Amari were better than the program average at their positions over the past 25 years. I wouldn’t consider either “elite.” For me, that’s a designation I would reserve for All-American level players and they weren’t that.
From individual skill standpoint, they were much better than their transfer portal rankings/projections prior to the year.
Here’s how I would assess their skills on the year:
Butler
Inside Scoring - C-
Outside Scoring - B
Playmaking - B+
Perimeter Defense - A
Interior Defense - D+
Rebounding - C-
Intangibles - A
Williams
Inside Scoring - B-
Outside Scoring - F
Playmaking - A
Perimeter Defense - D+
Interior Defense - B+
Rebounding - B
Intangibles - A-
“You all”
Did you respond to the wrong post? I didn’t even mention or state any of that nonsense in your second paragraph. Good lord dude.
I guess I should have used an IMO on my Butler take so that’s my bad. I stand by the take though. I’d take a healthy Butler as my PG every year. Had no idea that would be such a triggering and controversial take.
This is just my opinion. Don’t want anyone to get fired up.
Butler
Butler was excellent at finishing strong at the rim so don’t understand the grade for inside scoring there for a PG.
Perimeter defense was excellent so not sure how interior defense comes into play.
How many rebounds does a PG have to average to get B? 5? 6?
Williams
Williams had pretty much no post game at all. That’s at least a D. Neither did BG. One of the big weaknesses of that team. They had no one to get the ball to on the block and get an easy bucket(unless Carr had a mismatch).
His perimeter defense may have been better than his interior defense, which was awful. Dude is a monster of a man and always had his hands down to his sides. Dude his size with only 44 blocks is not a good(B+) interior defender.
I don’t like the passive aggressive laugh emoji reactions. We have had great conversations in the past so I’m being upfront, not a fan of that kind of thing. I wasn’t telling a joke, so your reaction was disrespectful.
I’d contest the notion that Butler was a slasher or inside scorer. He was more of a slithery offensive player, who could score with space on layups. He wasn’t scoring under heavy duress around the basket like a Keith Bogans, Otega Oweh or Joe Crawford.
I rate every player, regardless of position based on proficiency in each area. It doesn’t mean the ratings even matter for certain positions. Why does it matter if a point guard has good interior defense? Well, it doesn’t.
I rate that more based on watching his play, not purely on stats. I think he was a fine rebounder but he wasn’t putting up Rondo or Reed Sheppard numbers. He averaged 2.9 rpg at Kentucky — I think I was more than fair
We will disagree that Amari had no post game. Even on a team with a slew of offensive options he still scored on the occasional half-hook and had a face up push shot that he scored on pretty regularly. Was his game aesthetically pleasing? No. Again, I feel I was fair in my rating for a guy who made 56.1% of his shots on 6.8 attempts per game, most around the basket, some of which under duress.
I think this is just a take I don’t agree with from beginning to end. He didn’t have the lateral quickness, perimeter defensive fundamentals or the awareness to excel as a perimeter defender. I’m not even sure what would prompt the discussion that he is better on the perimeter.
As far as his post defense, it was good, but not elite. I gave him a B+ and that’s fair — I didn’t give him an A or anything, just a B+. He had the best DRtg per 100 possessions of anyone on that 2025 team and the closest to him was still +3.0 in comparison. Was he a great shot blocker? No. He was just okay, averaging about 3 blocks per 40 minutes.
I broke my finger twice and was playing golf in barely over a month hes fine by MM. That's if its even broke I also heard was just jammed.
Side note- I hope Zoom has taken out the shoulder Insurance plan..
Side note- I hope Zoom has taken out the shoulder Insurance plan..
Butler was legit. One of best overall players Pope has had. Tough, dog defender, could hot the open 3 but biggest asset was leadership. Im no fsn of Pope but id love pg just like Butler on any team
It does look similar. That team seemed motivated. In a 2 year sample where things looked dramatically different between the 2, it’s hard to generalize from either, but that first team seemed motivated and driven. Unless that just happens, that does not seem to be Pope’s problem.
Runnie Nose is a troll. It’s been his schtick for years. Not just a troll but a war loving troll. When he gets the boot in the butt in these debates he will just go ad hominem. So, when he stops debating and just trolls you, you know you won. He takes positions he cannot factually back and then just turns tail. In the wrasslin world, he is a local you never heard of.
Butler? A game or two? Are you even a basketball fan?
Amari was better than a C
Yep. Last year was a tough year, no doubt. But folks who say year one was "below standards" are just hating. When you start with nothing in the middle of April a d put together a team that was FF caliber, that's pretty darn good for anyone, Rick, Cal or Hurley included
I don’t think they were Final Four caliber personally. I think they were just a step below being a true national title contender due to their defensive issues, but I do agree with you that year one was not below expectations given what Pope inherited. Team was #23 preseason and a projected 8 seed. They spent half the year in the top 10 and earned a #3 seed. That year wasn’t perfect but it was a breath of fresh air, first and only Sweet 16 (not saying that is the standard) since Zion Williamson was still in college.
95% of the fanbase was on board with Pope after the first season. 95% of the fanbase jumped off board after the 2nd 
Anyone saying they were disappointed or 1st season wasn’t good is just revisionist history. The game against Florida at Rupp when we were fully healthy was one of the best played and most high level games I’ve seen Kentucky play since 2019
Anyone saying they were disappointed or 1st season wasn’t good is just revisionist history. The game against Florida at Rupp when we were fully healthy was one of the best played and most high level games I’ve seen Kentucky play since 2019Look, I know you're frustrated when you've gotten bitter towards Pope and I get that but the belittle is for a season is ridiculous. Everybody saw how good they could've been without the injuries. Omar Williams was considered an outstanding Center, specially with his passing, and Butler was considered a top level guard as he fought through his injuries. Last year was an absolute fail, but the year before starting from scratch Pope did a great job whether you choose to accept that or not it's up to you.
Williams passing was outstanding for a stretch of games. His scoring was never outstanding in any game that I can recall. I’m not grading final product, I’m grading how he did over the course of the season. Dude was horrible for a bunch of games and did not look like he’d ever played before. I liked him and I’m probably being too hard on Butler and would have loved to have had him at 100% all season but that was not the case. I can’t judge what happened through some made up lenses of potential and what ifs. Sorry. Agreed on Pope’s coaching season one. Made last year baffling and I’d assume it was chemistry related but that’s part of his job and as you noted he failed at it.
Show me how. And not just a select game or two but over the span of his time when he was here.
If you didn't watch the games I don't know what to tell you. Guy was a solid scorer, good rebounder, great passer, basically ran the offense and pulled a big man away from the basket to open the floor. Played solid enough D and averaged over a block per game
I think you’re forgetting OOC for him.
Edit: I just went and checked his season stats. His numbers were decent and he definitely had some good games but you’ll see the stinkers in there too.
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Amari found his strength facilitating the offense. He did great there but saying he was a solid scorer is something I never thought I’d hear.
He had no post game (neither did BG) at all. He could barely score if there was a man between him and the basket. Unless you’re talking about the circus shots he threw up from his left hip, ala the Duke game.
He did some good things. Scoring/post play and protecting the rim weren’t part of those good things.
He had no post game (neither did BG) at all. He could barely score if there was a man between him and the basket. Unless you’re talking about the circus shots he threw up from his left hip, ala the Duke game.
He did some good things. Scoring/post play and protecting the rim weren’t part of those good things.
“Solid scorer” is hilarious. UKcowboys has never seen a UK played that wasn’t a stud. Amari was a solid player. But far from a star. He’d be a backup on a good UK squad.
Pr
Pretty sure Pope has only had 2 teams here so far....yet to see how the 3rd team will unfold. You always ignore the injuries the first 2 years like they had both to do with the record and at times bad to horrible play and ball handling. Should he have done better? YES. Was it all his fault? NO. Throw in the sec has been historically good the last 2 years, this whole nil and transfer fiasco along with the injuries. Let's see how a he does with a healthy team this year. If it's the same results then a coach change may be justified. Until then, I will cheer on a support my team....like always.
Take your own advice. No one cares what you think either. It's a message board for, oh my God, telling other people what you think and discussing sports. How ironic.
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EvanMiya has Williams graded as the 11th best defender in college ball that season in terms of court impact, though.
I watched all the games. Many more than once. I’d guess the data scientists watched less than a tenth of a percent of tape than I did.
Look, I’m being harder than I want to be on Amari but for a guy that’s 7 feet with along wing span and standing reach of 9’3”, he wasn’t a great rim protector. He had 44 blocks. FOURTY FOUR. That’s how I judge my 5s because that’s what makes an elite defense IMO. Defense was the Achilles heel of that team, second to that was not having someone to go to to get an easy basket.
He did a lot of good things facilitating the offense. It just boggles my mind anyone thinking he had a post game or who didn’t watch and see the frustration with him having his hands down so often and so many times not even contesting shots.
If EvanMiyas’ metrics have him near the top ten in all of CBB that year, he needs to have his credentials taken away.
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