Are we too deep?

[RUfan1977]

We could have 4 legit players and Pike is still going to take until February to figure out his rotations

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

We have no idea how “deep” we are. We were “paper deep” two years ago too. We brought in 2 all conference caliber mid major scorers in Dercack and Acuff who put up a ton of points. Another starter from a west coast conference who averaged double figures in PJ. A starter from a good Princeton team (Martini). Those were 4 newcomers expected to compete for starting roles alongside Ace and Dylan in addition to bringing a penciled in starter in J Will, and a frosh 4 star center who was expected to play a ton in Lathan. Ogbole was coming off injury and expected to share the minutes at center. That’s 9 players not even including Davis (who played plenty as a frosh and at worse expected to absorb the back up PG role for Dylan). So that’s 10 deep without even considering the other 2 frosh Grant or Dortch.

 

[LeapinLou]

There are two ways to look at this:

1. If all 15 guys are legit D-1 basketball talents, practice should be much more competitive and that will help our top 8 guys improve.

2. If we paid $2M in total for players 9-15, I would rather have 6 walk-ons and a $2M star to add to the starting lineup.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Since I just looked at the data relating to how comparatively bad Powers efficiency was last year (related to the other active string) - there’s one player on the list of only 9 I identified who saw meaningful PT on a high major last year that’s worth pointing to here to level set everyone’s expectations of “too much depth”.

Kyon Evans on UNC shot 32.8% for them from the field last year. This is after transferring in from Col State where he played 28 mph and averaged 10.6 ppg and 3.1 assists on 47.1% overall efficiency and 44.6% made 3s. Clearly his success in the MWC did not transfer to the ACC. We don’t have MWC transfers coming in. The players we’re relaying on played at an even lower level or in unknown levels in Europe. We really don’t know how much depth we will have. It’s TBD.

 

[tru2ru1]

There are two ways to look at this:

1. If all 15 guys are legit D-1 basketball talents, practice should be much more competitive and that will help our top 8 guys improve.

2. If we paid $2M in total for players 9-15, I would rather have 6 walk-ons and a $2M star to add to the starting lineup.

Lou, very doubtful RU paid $1 million total for players 9-15, plus $2 million does not buy a star in the B1G

 

[RUfan1977]

We have no idea how “deep” we are. We were “paper deep” two years ago too. We brought in 2 all conference caliber mid major scorers in Dercack and Acuff who put up a ton of points. Another starter from a west coast conference who averaged double figures in PJ. A starter from a good Princeton team (Martini). Those were 4 newcomers expected to compete for starting roles alongside Ace and Dylan in addition to bringing a penciled in starter in J Will, and a frosh 4 star center who was expected to play a ton in Lathan. Ogbole was coming off injury and expected to share the minutes at center. That’s 9 players not even including Davis (who played plenty as a frosh and at worse expected to absorb the back up PG role for Dylan). So that’s 10 deep without even considering the other 2 frosh Grant or Dortch.

Your point is definitely a cautionary tale! Acuff had the broken foot and the other transfers didn’t rise to the occasion and often seemed afraid to shoot, except for Derkack who would drive to the basket where he was too small to effectively get his shot up. There is no guarantee that any of the transfers will be able to compete at the Big Ten level. Francis and Cam Spencer both rose to the challenge, but it is not a given that any of the new players will.

 

[rucoe89]

These last two international players Diego and Mateo seem pretty good which gives us our 14th and 15th players on the roster. Here's the thing, there isn't a program in the country that has 15 scholarship worthy players on its team other than us. Wouldn't it have been smarter to take the NILs of Jones, Smith, and Syndor, maybe even Buca, and spent it on a single player? Let's assume that the combination of these 4 players is $2M. $2M would have gotten us one of the top transfers in the portal this year. And we would have a roster of 12 or 13 players with a couple of walkon types. It still would have been a deep team, yes someone like Wooten would have gotten a few minutes a game rather than now he is probably barely playing at all, but if you had an all B1G caliber player alongside Francis and Gurdak (who's skillset I love) along with complimentary players like Buchanan and Powers and maybe Diego, we could have had an NCAA team. Now with what we have it will certainly be better than last season but how much better, maybe we reach .500? And if it's much better that means we caught lightning in a bottle and someone like Diego is a superstar which means someone like Smith doesn't play at all. What do you think?

We honestly have no idea how good this depth is or is not until we start play. On paper, don't know if we have a roster that can crack the top 50% of the league. With that standard, we are not too deep. We just have a lot of bodies. The trick is whether this staff can develop and pull out a set of 8 to 9 that can get us into the top 50% of the conference.

 

[RUDiddy777]

In all likelihood, the battle for playing time will likely be over who will play the 3 and the 4 and who will backup the 2 and the 5.

Gurdak will likely start at the 5 and Buca, Ware and Miteo will fight over who is his backup.

Mark will likely start at the 1 and Davis will likely be the backup.

Francis will likstart at the 2 and Jones, Powers and Wooten will battle to be the backup or battle to play the 3.

We really don’t know how everyone else stacks up against each other, but there will a huge battle over who starts and backs up the 3 and the 4.

Last year Pikiel clearly stuck with Badalau too long. Presumably he played better in practice than what we saw in games. Hopefully two players will step up so that it becomes clear who should start and play the majority of the minutes at the 3 and the 4. Hopefully we will see a couple of players develop through out the season like Mark apparently did.

My guess is that we will see more and more of Miteo as the season goes on because of the tremendous potential he shows at only 17 years old.

Felt like Badalau was the only guy tall enough to guard the perimeter or at least contest a shot when we faced guards who were taller than 6 3, so his PT was probably more out of need than desire.

 

[T2Kplus20]

This roster does not look improved. Maybe 13-14 wins at most?

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

This roster does not look improved. Maybe 13-14 wins at most?

How can you say it doesn’t look “improved”? May not be improved enough to have an impact, but the roster is definitely upgraded.

 

[T2Kplus20]

How can you say it doesn’t look “improved”? May not be improved enough to have an impact, but the roster is definitely upgraded.

Hope so. My interest in the b-ball program has dwindled to almost nothing. The Dylan/Ace season was crushing.

 

[RUDiddy777]

How can you say it doesn’t look “improved”? May not be improved enough to have an impact, but the roster is definitely upgraded.

He’s just a troll.

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

OP still trying to push this position as though he knows better than a head coach and GM what was need for roster construction. I predicted that they would go the route they did and many told me it wasn't possible to get a starting center and backup center for $2m and $1m, respectively, among other predictions I made.

This roster needed a lot in order to be able to compete. A couple of these guys are being way overvalued by many here and won't play nearly the minutes people are talking about. You'll see once the season starts.

Who are the ones who are way overvalued and won't play much? Gurdak started much of the season in the ACC so he's not one of them. Badalau and Zrno started games for us, and Diego and Miteo are head over heels better than them. Jones comes pretty highly regarded - maybe Smith and the 7'2" kid.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Who are the ones who are way overvalued and won't play much? Gurdak started much of the season in the ACC so he's not one of them. Badalau and Zrno started games for us, and Diego and Miteo are head over heels better than them. Jones comes pretty highly regarded - maybe Smith and the 7'2" kid.

Sydnor is the key in my opinion. Diego could be important too since he is known for defense. D is what killed us most last season. We couldn’t stop anyone.

 

[Simce91]

Sydnor is the key in my opinion. Diego could be important too since he is known for defense. D is what killed us most last season. We couldn’t stop anyone.

Agree, I think the "4" position will be the key as to whether RU is over 500 or under 500 this year.

RU has to be + on the glass this year, especially in limiting the opponents offensive rebounds

 

[Bob Chaewsky_rivals]

Agree, I think the "4" position will be the key as to whether RU is over 500 or under 500 this year.

RU has to be + on the glass this year, especially in limiting the opponents offensive rebounds

Gotta be over .500. We only need 4 more wins than last year and we sucked last year. .500 or below and you can kiss Pike good-bye.

 

[seansherm]

Sydnor is the key in my opinion. Diego could be important too since he is known for defense. D is what killed us most last season. We couldn’t stop anyone.

Yup, have said it repeatedly, Syndor being above average or not will determine how this particular season goes.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yup, have said it repeatedly, Syndor being above average or not will determine how this particular season goes.

Another way of putting it - will we have a 4 who is materially better than Dylan Grant? That’s what it comes down to and Sydnor is the lead candidate to possibly make this answer yes. Buchanan will be good for 12ish min at the 4. Anyone else is a shot in the dark.

 

[seansherm]

Another way of putting it - will we have a 4 who is materially better than Dylan Grant? That’s what it comes down to and Sydnor is the lead candidate to possibly make this answer yes. Buchanan will be good for 12ish min at the 4. Anyone else is a shot in the dark.

True, but DB is limited at the 4 and not his ideal spot at this level, so notnsure his minutes can/will have a material impact to the positive side. Love him, but he's best as bully ball guard where he can take advantage of his strength. Most true 4's match him at strength and have the height and length advantage

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

True, but DB is limited at the 4 and not his ideal spot at this level, so notnsure his minutes can/will have a material impact to the positive side. Love him, but he's best as bully ball guard where he can take advantage of his strength. Most true 4's match him at strength and have the height and length advantage

Buchanan is what he is. He’s not going to play the 2. Not a good enough ball handler since he has no left. We have better options than him even if we’re small. Plus Jones could even beat him out there. Not seeing it.

He’ll probably get 10-12 min at both the 3 and 4 for 22-24ish mpg. The open question is who gets the other 28-30 min at the 4 and how will they perform. And then secondarily the the 3. Sydnor is closest to “proven” at the 4 of anyone on the roster. At the 3, Powers and Buchanan absorbed most minutes last year. Kaden split time there and at the 2 behind Tariq. The competition for those minutes will come from Jones, Diego and Smith and then Wooten a long shot wildcard. Sydnor is really the only guy we brought in who is truly a 4. Miteo I consider a complete wildcard for playing time anywhere as the competion he played at is completely unknown. Can’t go by film.

 

[Nyagentman]

Yes way too deep the amount of NBA talent on this team is amazing!

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

Hope so. My interest in the b-ball program has dwindled to almost nothing. The Dylan/Ace season was crushing.

so your comment is based on emotion rather than objective thoughts .

thanks for clarifying

 

[Simce91]

True, but DB is limited at the 4 and not his ideal spot at this level, so notnsure his minutes can/will have a material impact to the positive side. Love him, but he's best as bully ball guard where he can take advantage of his strength. Most true 4's match him at strength and have the height and length advantage

I will be interested to see what effect the RU S & C program has had on Buchanan. Perhaps he will be able to play some "bully ball" at the 4 spot

Garavaglia's write up mentions he was a top defender in Europe, we'll see how that equates to the B1G style of play, and then there is Syndor and possibly Miteo.

Agree with PSAL, the above is already an upgrade over Dylan Grant and Dortch

 

[seansherm]

Buchanan is what he is. He’s not going to play the 2. Not a good enough ball handler since he has no left. We have better options than him even if we’re small. Plus Jones could even beat him out there. Not seeing it.

He’ll probably get 10-12 min at both the 3 and 4 for 22-24ish mpg. The open question is who gets the other 28-30 min at the 4 and how will they perform. And then secondarily the the 3. Sydnor is closest to “proven” at the 4 of anyone on the roster. At the 3, Powers and Buchanan absorbed most minutes last year. Kaden split time there and at the 2 behind Tariq. The competition for those minutes will come from Jones, Diego and Smith and then Wooten a long shot wildcard. Sydnor is really the only guy we brought in who is truly a 4. Miteo I consider a complete wildcard for playing time anywhere as the competion he played at is completely unknown. Can’t go by film.

Yeah, hard to project the foreign guys, one of them does look similar to what I hoped Nwuli could grow into, but we won't know until seeing them up close. Agree, Syndor is the 4 hope, I like DB as a three more than a two or four, but he'll play three and four this year..

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Yeah, hard to project the foreign guys, one of them does look similar to what I hoped Nwuli could grow into, but we won't know until seeing them up close. Agree, Syndor is the 4 hope, I like DB as a three more than a two or four, but he'll play three and four this year..

Yeah - I think DB will basically get back up minutes at both the 3 and 4 which will combine for 22-24ish total minutes. It’s TBD who will get the bulk of the minutes at those 2 positions. There are no minutes available for new players at the 1 and prob not more than 15-20 min max at the 2 (Lino/JMike/Tarik). So basically an estimate of about 50 minutes to allocate at the 2/3 between Jones, Powers, Diego, Smith, and Wooton. I don’t expect Martin to play.

 

[T2Kplus20]

so your comment is based on emotion rather than objective thoughts .

thanks for clarifying

It's based on RU's track record and simple probabilities.

 

[RedTeamUpstream94]

It's based on RU's track record and simple probabilities.

You say that now but your original reason for the comment was your lack of interest and being “crushed” . In other words - your feelings.

 

[T2Kplus20]

You say that now but your original reason for the comment was your lack of interest and being “crushed” . In other words - your feelings. Just sayin.

That’s not what I actually said. My interest in RU basketball started during the Hinson days and peaked while a student during the Bannon era. It’s been steadily declining since Hill. Stopped going to games during Jordan. Stopped watching on TV due to 2024. So that year “crushed” the small remaining interest I had.

Feel free to ask a follow up question instead of jumping to conclusions!

 

[seels2662]

Just as a heads up, in the Round Table board I argued all summer that the football team got too many transfers and as a result we are no good. Look what happened. I'm making the same argument for the basketball team in this thread.

I'm really hoping we caught lightning in a bottle with Diego.

 

[NightKnight]

UMass had 30 transfers.

In basketball I agree that it changes the way you have to coach. It changed it so that great coaches like K and Wright don't want a part of it. It requires a stripped down scheme with easily communicated concepts. It involves less player development. It requires it to be run more like a business.

Pikes strength was a more complicated defensive scheme than is impractical to install now. Pikes strength was social connection to players built over years. Pikes strength was giving leadership roles to system veterans. Pikes strength was keeping ten guys happy. I don't think any of those strengths hold up in this era.

For Diego, I'd like to see him used the way Fran used to use his bench shooters at Iowa. Bring them into to shoot. Get them out before their defense is exposed.

 

[Anon1751565407]

UMass had 30 transfers.

In basketball I agree that it changes the way you have to coach. It changed it so that great coaches like K and Wright don't want a part of it. It requires a stripped down scheme with easily communicated concepts. It involves less player development. It requires it to be run more like a business.

Pikes strength was a more complicated defensive scheme than is impractical to install now. Pikes strength was social connection to players built over years. Pikes strength was giving leadership roles to system veterans. Pikes strength was keeping ten guys happy. I don't think any of those strengths hold up in this era.

For Diego, I'd like to see him used the way Fran used to use his bench shooters at Iowa. Bring them into to shoot. Get them out before their defense is exposed.

Diego has some athleticism and has obviously done all the footwork drills and has done time with weights…so he moves well. He seems like a 20 minute per game guy at least.

 

[GM]

UMass had 30 transfers.

In basketball I agree that it changes the way you have to coach. It changed it so that great coaches like K and Wright don't want a part of it. It requires a stripped down scheme with easily communicated concepts. It involves less player development. It requires it to be run more like a business.

Pikes strength was a more complicated defensive scheme than is impractical to install now. Pikes strength was social connection to players built over years. Pikes strength was giving leadership roles to system veterans. Pikes strength was keeping ten guys happy. I don't think any of those strengths hold up in this era.

For Diego, I'd like to see him used the way Fran used to use his bench shooters at Iowa. Bring them into to shoot. Get them out before their defense is exposed.

Diego's reputation comes from being a top level defender, not for shooting. In fact its his offense that is the biggest question mark, as well as if he can translate it to strong athletes, but if you think hes just a Zrno replacement, youre well mistaken. Id say the scouting report on him is more Caleb McConnell than Cam Spencer

 

[kupuna133]

Lou, very doubtful RU paid $1 million total for players 9-15, plus $2 million does not buy a star in the B1G

People really don’t understand the true numbers of NIL. Most if not all of the numbers being reported are seriously over inflated. Players 9-15 combined are making less than 300k much less 2M. Last person on the roster is getting tuition and a small stipend.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Just as a heads up, in the Round Table board I argued all summer that the football team got too many transfers and as a result we are no good. Look what happened. I'm making the same argument for the basketball team in this thread.

I'm really hoping we caught lightning in a bottle with Diego.

I don’t see this at all with basketball. Every team brings in transfers. We are returning more minutes than most teams. Center was the only position where we didn’t return anyone who logged meaningful minutes who could play there but that’s why we added 3 centers in addition to Ware. And we didn’t get much from the center position anyway last year.

 

[seansherm]

Just as a heads up, in the Round Table board I argued all summer that the football team got too many transfers and as a result we are no good. Look what happened. I'm making the same argument for the basketball team in this thread.

I'm really hoping we caught lightning in a bottle with Diego.

I get what you are saying, but we were basically returning zero frontcourt. I think we probably spent most of the transfer $ on Gurdak and Syndor. Everyone else is pretty much a flier and we hope a few work out.

 

[seels2662]

I get what you are saying, but we were basically returning zero frontcourt. I think we probably spent most of the transfer $ on Gurdak and Syndor. Everyone else is pretty much a flier and we hope a few work out.

I think Gurdak was a great pickup, no complaints, and I think Syndor will play.

My argument has been that we should have combined the moneys of Syndor Smith and Jones and got a much better player than those three. Let's say thats a little less than$2M combined for the three, for $2M we could have gotten a big time PF, and combine that with what we have and we really could have been a bubble team. I don't think we are with what we have.

 

[NBKnight]

I think Gurdak was a great pickup, no complaints, and I think Syndor will play.

My argument has been that we should have combined the moneys of Syndor Smith and Jones and got a much better player than those three. Let's say thats a little less than$2M combined for the three, for $2M we could have gotten a big time PF, and combine that with what we have and we really could have been a bubble team. I don't think we are with what we have.

One of the issues is, we don’t know how much these guys got and whether or not it would be enough to get a top guy. I think Jones was pretty cheap, seems like he may have been a replacement for Duarte. And as we saw with Dylan and Ace, a couple stars aren’t enough when the rest of the cast is weak. The reports on Sydnor have been very positive, add in Smith and they could provide more help than one PF.

 

[seansherm]

I think Gurdak was a great pickup, no complaints, and I think Syndor will play.

My argument has been that we should have combined the moneys of Syndor Smith and Jones and got a much better player than those three. Let's say thats a little less than$2M combined for the three, for $2M we could have gotten a big time PF, and combine that with what we have and we really could have been a bubble team. I don't think we are with what we have.

Perhaps, I think most of us wanted a 4 and a 5 to be the priority. Problem is, to have a roster, we needed more than one of each. Who knows, what was willing to come. I don't think Smith or Jones could have cost too much. Smith is awful defensively.