A trio of higher ed stories some might find interesting

[615dawg]

1. The University of Arkansas will become more selective with out of state admissions. (Story)

In 2019, Arkansas received 17,000 applications from out of state. Last year it was 36,000. Arkansas no longer wants to be a "destination university" for Texas kids that can't get into Texas or A&M. (only 125 Mississippians at UArk last year, so while it affects MS kids, they aren't the problem).

I saw an unofficial report that as part of the new more stringent requirements, out of staters will have to have a 3.8 GPA to qualify for the New Arkansasan Scholarship.

2. An ACC school is in serious financial trouble

Syracuse borrowed a half a billion dollars to build new dorms and has missed their enrollment goals for four straight years. They have cut 84 majors (For reference, State has 81 majors).Syracuse, like many schools, lived on international enrollment and that is drying up. Syracuse has nearly $1.8 billion in total debt, just under their total revenue of $2 billion, and they continue to bleed students.

3. Texas may be moving to three year bachelor degrees

The governor of Texas (Story) is calling for public colleges in Texas to move to a three year degree model. While there are a handful of schools that offer 90-credit hour bachelor's degrees, if major publics in Texas start doing it, there could be a trend started.

 

[jethreauxdawg]

#3. Why not just let them pay for it in one year and go ahead and give them the paper then. Why drag the process out for 3 years?**

 

[RocketDawg]

1. The University of Arkansas will become more selective with out of state admissions. (Story)

In 2019, Arkansas received 17,000 applications from out of state. Last year it was 36,000. Arkansas no longer wants to be a "destination university" for Texas kids that can't get into Texas or A&M. (only 125 Mississippians at UArk last year, so while it affects MS kids, they aren't the problem).

I saw an unofficial report that as part of the new more stringent requirements, out of staters will have to have a 3.8 GPA to qualify for the New Arkansasan Scholarship.

2. An ACC school is in serious financial trouble

Syracuse borrowed a half a billion dollars to build new dorms and has missed their enrollment goals for four straight years. They have cut 84 majors (For reference, State has 81 majors).Syracuse, like many schools, lived on international enrollment and that is drying up. Syracuse has nearly $1.8 billion in total debt, just under their total revenue of $2 billion, and they continue to bleed students.

3. Texas may be moving to three year bachelor degrees

The governor of Texas (Story) is calling for public colleges in Texas to move to a three year degree model. While there are a handful of schools that offer 90-credit hour bachelor's degrees, if major publics in Texas start doing it, there could be a trend started.

U. Texas is a really good school (allegedly), but are they turning into a junior college, at least in some majors? I had to have 144 hours at State.

Syracuse is a private school. Tough row to hoe nowadays for some of them.

 

[gtowndawg]

3. Texas may be moving to three year bachelor degrees

The governor of Texas (Story) is calling for public colleges in Texas to move to a three year degree model. While there are a handful of schools that offer 90-credit hour bachelor's degrees, if major publics in Texas start doing it, there could be a trend started.

Tennessee is going down that path as well

https://www.newschannel5.com/news/tennessee-approves-pathway-for-three-year-bachelors-degrees

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

1. The University of Arkansas will become more selective with out of state admissions. (Story)

In 2019, Arkansas received 17,000 applications from out of state. Last year it was 36,000. Arkansas no longer wants to be a "destination university" for Texas kids that can't get into Texas or A&M. (only 125 Mississippians at UArk last year, so while it affects MS kids, they aren't the problem).

I saw an unofficial report that as part of the new more stringent requirements, out of staters will have to have a 3.8 GPA to qualify for the New Arkansasan Scholarship.

2. An ACC school is in serious financial trouble

Syracuse borrowed a half a billion dollars to build new dorms and has missed their enrollment goals for four straight years. They have cut 84 majors (For reference, State has 81 majors).Syracuse, like many schools, lived on international enrollment and that is drying up. Syracuse has nearly $1.8 billion in total debt, just under their total revenue of $2 billion, and they continue to bleed students.

3. Texas may be moving to three year bachelor degrees

The governor of Texas (Story) is calling for public colleges in Texas to move to a three year degree model. While there are a handful of schools that offer 90-credit hour bachelor's degrees, if major publics in Texas start doing it, there could be a trend started.

Dang! I could turn my 140 undergrad hours into a PHD in Texas!

 

[L4Dawg]

Cambridge and Oxford undergrad degrees are done in 3 years.

 

[615dawg]

Just an opinion of a guy who has spent half his life in higher education administration ...

The 120+hour college degree has kept a lot of professors employed. A lot of departments that have 80% of the credit hours in their department 100- and 200- level classes that they have fought to have in the core curriculum. Many times these classes have the attachment of being an "easy class"

Looking at you, sociology.

 

[FactCheckerBot]

Fact:

It seems like a gimmick to process more students.

 

[dickiedawg]

1. The University of Arkansas will become more selective with out of state admissions. (Story)

In 2019, Arkansas received 17,000 applications from out of state. Last year it was 36,000. Arkansas no longer wants to be a "destination university" for Texas kids that can't get into Texas or A&M. (only 125 Mississippians at UArk last year, so while it affects MS kids, they aren't the problem).

I saw an unofficial report that as part of the new more stringent requirements, out of staters will have to have a 3.8 GPA to qualify for the New Arkansasan Scholarship.

2. An ACC school is in serious financial trouble

Syracuse borrowed a half a billion dollars to build new dorms and has missed their enrollment goals for four straight years. They have cut 84 majors (For reference, State has 81 majors).Syracuse, like many schools, lived on international enrollment and that is drying up. Syracuse has nearly $1.8 billion in total debt, just under their total revenue of $2 billion, and they continue to bleed students.

3. Texas may be moving to three year bachelor degrees

The governor of Texas (Story) is calling for public colleges in Texas to move to a three year degree model. While there are a handful of schools that offer 90-credit hour bachelor's degrees, if major publics in Texas start doing it, there could be a trend started.

Anecdotally, it seems like it’s common now for students to enter college with a lot of credit hours from AP or dual enrollment.
Do you know an average on that?

 

[johnson86-1]

Cambridge and Oxford undergrad degrees are done in 3 years.

I think they have more specialized high school classes. Not arguing against that model. Just not sure it’s the same as offering a 3 year degree to US students.

I will say, I know plenty of people that graduated at state and ole miss and really didn’t take anything of significance beyond what the honors students in our high school took except for maybe accounting.

a three year degree if they required proficiency to leave high school would be very doable. My 148 hour degree (I think? I finished with over 150; just know the minimum was over 140) reall probably could have been 128. Not that some of the electives weren’t enriching, but if we’re going to make it as expensive as we have, you can’t require unnecessary filler. Some of the less technical majors probably could have easily been 108.

 

[BTCMoonBoy]

Unless these colleges are giving degrees in Electrical work plumbing air-conditioning or mechanical, that’s a waste of money and time. Offshoring an AI is already reducing the number of employees in my major company.

 

[msualohadog]

Three years seems fair. I was kinda tired of getting drunk every night and being broke by my senior year.

 

[johnson86-1]

2. An ACC school is in serious financial trouble

Syracuse borrowed a half a billion dollars to build new dorms and has missed their enrollment goals for four straight years. They have cut 84 majors (For reference, State has 81 majors).Syracuse, like many schools, lived on international enrollment and that is drying up. Syracuse has nearly $1.8 billion in total debt, just under their total revenue of $2 billion, and they continue to bleed students.

Syracuse tuition: $69k per year. For a university ranked 75th. Plus you get the benefit of that wonderful Syracuse climate.

I’m sure very few people are paying full freight, but just a terrible value proposition. Same cost as Vanderbilt that is ranked 17th. Or you could go to any of the ivys if you can get in for the same price. Or you could go to mich higher ranked UCLA, Ucal Berkeley, or UNC for 60-70% of the price.

even if you’re rich enough that the cost doesn’t matter, what is the draw?

 

[CascillaCountryClub]

With the advancement of technology, not as many need a College Degree to find good paying jobs.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Offshoring an AI is already reducing the number of employees in my major company.

It's really not. This whole AI cummin fer my jerbs stuff has been way overblown, outside of jobs that were slowly going away anyway, like secretaries and stuff.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Syracuse tuition: $69k per year. For a university ranked 75th. Plus you get the benefit of that wonderful Syracuse climate.

I’m sure very few people are paying full freight, but just a terrible value proposition. Same cost as Vanderbilt that is ranked 17th. Or you could go to any of the ivys if you can get in for the same price. Or you could go to mich higher ranked UCLA, Ucal Berkeley, or UNC for 60-70% of the price.

even if you’re rich enough that the cost doesn’t matter, what is the draw?

It's really that simple. The truth usually is, but that doesn't stop the doomsayer predictions.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

U. Texas is a really good school (allegedly), but are they turning into a junior college, at least in some majors? I had to have 144 hours at State.

I mean just because we did that last century doesn't mean we shouldn't adapt a bit? Why do you need Marriage and Family (and a college professor's stance on it, to boot) to be an engineer?

A lot of that crap we took was garbage and you can also expedite some things. 3 years seems plausible for a lot of majors.

 

[3407Dewey]

Just an opinion of a guy who has spent half his life in higher education administration ...

The 120+hour college degree has kept a lot of professors employed. A lot of departments that have 80% of the credit hours in their department 100- and 200- level classes that they have fought to have in the core curriculum. Many times these classes have the attachment of being an "easy class"

Looking at you, sociology.

Yeah, I'm in higher education as well, and will definitely acknowledge that what you're talking about is real. I guess the big question is whether the "general education"/electives part of a college degree has any worth. In my own experience as an undergrad, there were classes that had basically zero (sociology is an easy target) and others that had a life long impact on me (philosophy of ethics at State). There's an argument to be made for both sides.

 

[mstateglfr]

Unless these colleges are giving degrees in Electrical work plumbing air-conditioning or mechanical, that’s a waste of money and time. Offshoring an AI is already reducing the number of employees in my major company.

What's your degree in and what is your profession?

 

[mstateglfr]

It's interesting that a lot of why Syracuse is struggling is because of a lack of international students.

I read international applicants fell by 17% for fall '25 and then fell by another 9.5% this fall.

Not sure what that equates to, but it has to be mant billions in lost potential revenue.
Private larger universities with grad and doctoral paths have to be hurting bigly- those seem to have leaned on international a good bit.

 

[patdog]

I think they have more specialized high school classes. Not arguing against that model. Just not sure it’s the same as offering a 3 year degree to US students.

I will say, I know plenty of people that graduated at state and ole miss and really didn’t take anything of significance beyond what the honors students in our high school took except for maybe accounting.

a three year degree if they required proficiency to leave high school would be very doable. My 148 hour degree (I think? I finished with over 150; just know the minimum was over 140) reall probably could have been 128. Not that some of the electives weren’t enriching, but if we’re going to make it as expensive as we have, you can’t require unnecessary filler. Some of the less technical majors probably could have easily been 108.

I think my 4-year accounting degree had only 30 hours of actual Accounting classes. Now there were a few of business, marketing & business law classes. Not saying the other general studies classes had no value, but you could have easily structured a 3-year accounting degree back then.

 

[615dawg]

It's interesting that a lot of why Syracuse is struggling is because of a lack of international students.

I read international applicants fell by 17% for fall '25 and then fell by another 9.5% this fall.

Not sure what that equates to, but it has to be mant billions in lost potential revenue.
Private larger universities with grad and doctoral paths have to be hurting bigly- those seem to have leaned on international a good bit.

Internationals pay full price. At a private school like Syracuse, which has a $93,000+ cost of attendance, that is a significant revenue generator. Historically, Syracuse hovered around 4,000 international students, that has more than cut in half since 2023. Not quite billions, but nine figures.

Add in that Syracuse is a dying city, the winters are terrible, and Syracuse sports are awful (they once had a powerhouse football team and more recently were nationally relevant in basketball) and they are losing domestic students as well. Northeastern students are becoming more open to coming to the Sun Belt, and those that aren't look at Syracuse and say hey can go to a SUNY school for half the price and have the same terrible city/terrible winter experience.

 

[615dawg]

I think my 4-year accounting degree had only 30 hours of actual Accounting classes. Now there were a few of business, marketing & business law classes. Not saying the other general studies classes had no value, but you could have easily structured a 3-year accounting degree back then.

This is exactly what the discussion is about. If a degree needs to be four years, that's fine. But a degree like accounting could be restructured.

Here are the requirements for an accounting degree at Mississippi State right now.

6 Hours English Composition
3 Hours Fine Arts
6 Hours Humanities
6 Hours Economics
3 Hours Calculus
3 Hours Statistics
6-8 Hours Science
3 Hours Public Speaking
3 Hours Computer Applications
3 Hours Business Law
18 Hours Upper Level Business

36 Hours Accounting Classes

16 Hours Electives

120 Hours total

You could easily knock that down to 90 and deliver the same quality accountancy graduate

Cut English Comp to 3 hours (most states do this now anyway)
No need for 9 hours of humanities and fine arts
Cut back to one science class
Cut the electives

You are at 90 already, and you haven't even touched that there are repeated classes between Upper Level Business and Accounting Core (Financial Management, Commercial Transactions) or combining Business Communications with Public Speaking. Accountants need to know how to speak in a business environment.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Study the changes in higher education beginning in the 1980's -- where the funding now comes from and where it actually goes.

It's been unsustainable. Thank God for those philanthropists who like putting their names on buildings and stadiums.

And advertisers, of course. It's all about branding, marketing, and cultural relevance.

As they say: "It's never been about what you know. It's who you know."

 

[johnson86-1]

Yeah, I'm in higher education as well, and will definitely acknowledge that what you're talking about is real. I guess the big question is whether the "general education"/electives part of a college degree has any worth. In my own experience as an undergrad, there were classes that had basically zero (sociology is an easy target) and others that had a life long impact on me (philosophy of ethics at State). There's an argument to be made for both sides.

I think they actually have a lot of worth when done right. But there are two problems.

One, it should be really, really cheap to do them "right". Pay a good professor $150k to $200k fully loaded salary with benefits and have them teach 12 hours a semester. So that's 8 classes over the year (ignoring summer school), and they can serve 200 students if they put 25 in each class. At $10k per year in tuition, you end up with the students being taught over those two semesters paying $2,000,000 in tuition. If they are averaging 15 hours a semester, that means the philosophy course accounts for 20% of their hours, so say $400k to teach philosophy, and after paying the professor his/her salary and benefits, you end up with $200,000 to go to G&A. Obviously those numbers don't work the same for majors where you want your professors engaging in research and it takes a lot of money to provide them the equipment they need and to do the research, but your traditional liberal arts degree should be dirt cheap. Or hell, every degree other than engineering degrees and hard science degrees where you actually probably need to the research associated with it. Even in those, maybe you don't need research to grant engineering degrees and biology and physics degrees? Just treat it more like votech and be like you can do the basics (pass the FE if you're an engineer, get a job as a high school teacher or doing Phase I's if you're a biologist, not sure what a physics degree gets you but the option to apply to grad school?) or you can try to get into a masters program with actual research.

Two, tons of classes that should be useful to students are basically just navel gazing and mental masturbation, not actually learning how to apply critical thinking and reasoning and discernment to hard problems with either real world application, or at least problems that teach a framework that can be applied to real world problems. The universities have largely treated themselves as unserious institutions, and you can't just snap your fingers and undo decades of cultural rot.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

My first 3 semesters at MSU was mostly a repeat of high school. I had a top score in the AP math exam so all my math requirements were already met. I had a science class that was a total repeat of my 9th grade earth science. I only went to class to take the 5 tests in that course and got a 95 at the end. Now I did switch to a PE major after year one but that was just because business had classes that interfered with Baseball practice. There were multiple classes in PE that went over the same information on child development. There was way too much filler.

 

[615dawg]

Someone asked above and I did not have the answer but I dug in.

34% of students nationwide come into college with dual enrollment classes. These are mainly done through high school-community college partnerships. 22% of all community college students are actually high school students taking dual enrollment classes.

Here's where it varies. In Madison, there is only an opportunity for 12 credit hours of dual enrollment (English Comp I and II, College Algebra and Arts Appreciation). There are other places in Mississippi that allow you to get an associate's degree (64 hours) while in high school.

The average nationwide is 12-14 hours though. That's enough to cut a semester off, or give you an opportunity to dive into a major a little earlier.

Here's a plug though. If you have a motivated high school student, the University of Alabama has a bunch of 100- and 200- level classes for $99 a class that you can take online. You can easily knock a year off of college for about $1000. Mine took Intro to Religion, Sociology, Music Appreciation, Computer Apps, and classes like that. 4.0 GPA. Classes required some work though, so they have to be motivated.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

With the advancement of technology, not as many need a College Degree to find good paying jobs.

However, many college aged students aren’t necessarily familiar with technology even though a lot of folks consider them to be knowledgeable since they grew up in it…

 

[Walkthedawg]

U. Texas is a really good school (allegedly), but are they turning into a junior college, at least in some majors? I had to have 144 hours at State.

Syracuse is a private school. Tough row to hoe nowadays for some of them.

You can do this with college equivalency courses taken while still in high school and using summer classes.

My wife's cousin has a kid that just started her second full year of university courses and she has enough hours to classify as a junior.

 

[golferdog]

Three years seems fair. I was kinda tired of getting drunk every night and being broke by my senior year.

You really don't need more than 3 years. Just require the the core classes and let people move on. We all know they require the electives to get more money. If they want to require some electives, design them so they are courses people actually need. It's inefficient. We don't need military science or wine appreciation, etc.

 

[CoastTrash]

Should HailState attempt to fill the void that appears to be created by ARK not welcoming as many Texas (out of state) kids? Should we try to grow enrollment with Texas kids?

 

[615dawg]

Should HailState attempt to fill the void that appears to be created by ARK not welcoming as many Texas (out of state) kids? Should we try to grow enrollment with Texas kids?

Yes.

We'd need to make a meaningful commitment to Greek Life (we have the smallest number going through rush in the SEC, even though we had a record this year). Persona needs to be less Gretchen Wilson and more Ella Langley.

See Kelsey Farese's portrayal of our women on RHOSEC: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1728738628181028

I think sports success matters, but Arkansas is in worse shape than us.

I think we do very well in Birmingham, Huntsville and Memphis. We need to recruit Houston, Dallas, Nashville and Atlanta harder.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Someone asked above and I did not have the answer but I dug in.

34% of students nationwide come into college with dual enrollment classes. These are mainly done through high school-community college partnerships. 22% of all community college students are actually high school students taking dual enrollment classes.

Here's where it varies. In Madison, there is only an opportunity for 12 credit hours of dual enrollment (English Comp I and II, College Algebra and Arts Appreciation). There are other places in Mississippi that allow you to get an associate's degree (64 hours) while in high school.

The average nationwide is 12-14 hours though. That's enough to cut a semester off, or give you an opportunity to dive into a major a little earlier.

Here's a plug though. If you have a motivated high school student, the University of Alabama has a bunch of 100- and 200- level classes for $99 a class that you can take online. You can easily knock a year off of college for about $1000. Mine took Intro to Religion, Sociology, Music Appreciation, Computer Apps, and classes like that. 4.0 GPA. Classes required some work though, so they have to be motivated.

Georgia gives 30 hours for free.

 

[mstateglfr]

6 Hours English Composition
3 Hours Fine Arts
6 Hours Humanities
6-8 Hours Science
16 Hours Electives


You could easily knock that down to 90 and deliver the same quality accountancy graduate

Cut English Comp to 3 hours (most states do this now anyway)
No need for 9 hours of humanities and fine arts
Cut back to one science class
Cut the electives

You really don't need more than 3 years. Just require the the core classes and let people move on. We all know they require the electives to get more money. If they want to require some electives, design them so they are courses people actually need. It's inefficient. We don't need military science or wine appreciation, etc.

Sure, wine appreciation doesnt need to be a class.

I do think there can be real value in college electives and required college courses that are outside one's major.
- Encouraging college students to take college level psych and sociology classes can help broaden people's understanding of social history, social interaction, and more.
- Encouraging college students to have an actual college level grasp of world history, early US history, modern US history, etc can reduce the number of dummies that latch onto revisionist history and historical conspiracies.
- Encouraging college students to take college level civics classes and government classes can help ensure our society has more at least halfway competent citizens, when it comes to governance and rights. This is clearly needed more than ever right now, given the exponential increase in misinformation and how easy it spreads.
- Electives and other required courses are where many college students discover interests and passions. That leads some to even change their major, while it allows others to explore topics that will become lifelong interests. Thats all very good.


This society needs more people that have passed college level biology and college level chemistry(so 6 to 8 hours). I cant believe this even has to be advocated for because it seems to glaringly obvious, but here we are. We need more people that have the ability to discern BS from reality, or even just discern correlation from causation, when it comes to claims about health and related topics.

And this society clearly needs college graduates with at least a couple English Comp classes. My gosh- the generation that is currently rolling through school is woefully deficient when it comes to writing composition. I see op-eds and news articles with stats on this at least weekly...and I am not even a target audience for that type of news. And I absolutely see it at the HS level with kids coming to me because they dont understand some form they were given, or complaining to me about how difficult some writing assignment is(that sounds easy as hell).
We need a society with college graduates who can competently read and write. It doesnt matter if the person is going to be an accountant, a 'marketer', an engineer, or a social worker- this current generation of students need more writing skills.

 

[mstateglfr]

See Kelsey Farese's portrayal of our women on RHOSEC: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1728738628181028

watching that video...

It took until the final few seconds for me to chuckle. The Vandy character's comments were funny. Well, the one Auburn comment about MSU was good too.

Does this content creator really do this bit each week?

 

[8dog]

Yes.

We'd need to make a meaningful commitment to Greek Life (we have the smallest number going through rush in the SEC, even though we had a record this year). Persona needs to be less Gretchen Wilson and more Ella Langley.

See Kelsey Farese's portrayal of our women on RHOSEC: https://www.facebook.com/reel/1728738628181028

I think sports success matters, but Arkansas is in worse shape than us.

I think we do very well in Birmingham, Huntsville and Memphis. We need to recruit Houston, Dallas, Nashville and Atlanta harder.

How do we have a “meaningful commitment to Greek Life”?

 

[615dawg]

How do we have a “meaningful commitment to Greek Life”?

A lot of the out of state crowd coming to the SEC schools are coming for Greek Life. While it exists at State, its not really at the level of the rest of the SEC.

Now, some will argue that is fine, but if we want to recruit out of state students (where the question I answered was headed), then a commitment to growing Greek Life has to be a priority. We had 910 girls rush this year. Outside of Vanderbilt, the next lowest in the SEC was over 1500. South Carolina led the conference with 2500.

Alpha Chi Omega got a new house. That will help.

 

[615dawg]

watching that video...

It took until the final few seconds for me to chuckle. The Vandy character's comments were funny. Well, the one Auburn comment about MSU was good too.

Does this content creator really do this bit each week?

Every week.

Again, not my style but she's right behind Roll Call and SEC Shorts in popularity, and is #1 with the females who consume TikTok garbage more than men. SEC Pretty is another one that is catching fire.

 

[8dog]

A lot of the out of state crowd coming to the SEC schools are coming for Greek Life. While it exists at State, its not really at the level of the rest of the SEC.

Now, some will argue that is fine, but if we want to recruit out of state students (where the question I answered was headed), then a commitment to growing Greek Life has to be a priority. We had 910 girls rush this year. Outside of Vanderbilt, the next lowest in the SEC was over 1500. South Carolina led the conference with 2500.

Alpha Chi Omega got a new house. That will help.

Yeah, i know all that. Im asking what a commitment looks like? Like how do you commit more to Greek life. We have grown to 9 pretty robust sorority houses so it feels like we have done a good job.

 

[615dawg]

Yeah, i know all that. Im asking what a commitment looks like? Like how do you commit more to Greek life. We have grown to 9 pretty robust sorority houses so it feels like we have done a good job.

Things are getting better. Its hard for me to go into detail without calling out some unqualified peeps in the YMCA Building, but the support structure could improve.