Public vs Private debate is Settled (relief)

[LWN_Pheonix]

This last weekend we saw a “down year” LWE beat Brother Rice and then Mount Carmel falling to EastSide

I am glad that now everyone can agree that their was a false narrative and gross misconception that private schools had some sort of recruiting advantage over public’s

This long drawn out argument was nothing more than a Trojan horse argument in order to multiply the student attendance numbers and intentionally place “non public’s” at a distinct disadvantage when it came to sports.


I for one am glad that we as a community can now move forward and put this obvious fake news behind us…

 

[OnVikings!]

I think that there’s an argument that can be made to increase the radius to 45 miles to level the playing field…

 

[ODERTY1]

Two games dont solve an issue lmao

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

Two games dont solve an issue lmao

Agreed make it a 55 mile radius instead (not including lakes or water).

 

[Caravan92]

Two games dont solve an issue lmao

St. Larry’s lost to a Chicago Public school. That’s THREE!

 

[THE ROBUST OFFENSE]

time to get rid of the multiplier and consolidate all the competitive imbalance to 6A and lower classes.

 

[THE ROBUST OFFENSE]

time to get rid of the multiplier and consolidate all the competitive imbalance to 6A and lower classes.

MC wouldn’t want to do that tho since they would have to play ESL again.

 

[Colin2299]

I know Benet won by 6 but they should be added here. It was 7a CCL vs 1A farm school.

 

[CCL65]

This last weekend we saw a “down year” LWE beat Brother Rice and then Mount Carmel falling to EastSide

I am glad that now everyone can agree that their was a false narrative and gross misconception that private schools had some sort of recruiting advantage over public’s

This long drawn out argument was nothing more than a Trojan horse argument in order to multiply the student attendance numbers and intentionally place “non public’s” at a distinct disadvantage when it came to sports.


I for one am glad that we as a community can now move forward and put this obvious fake news behind us…

Won’t be settled until November 28th

 

[Colin2299]

What do you make of ESL with the private/public debate?

They get more meaningful transfers than anyone but everyone turns a blind eye.

why?

 

[LWN_Pheonix]

St Francis traveled to Indiana and lost to a public school…

I honestly think that the privates should think about separating based on ten unfair advantage given to the public’s

 

[McCaravan]

St. Larry’s lost to a Chicago Public school. That’s THREE!

What do you make of ESL with the private/public debate?

They get more meaningful transfers than anyone but everyone turns a blind eye.

why?

Que the Crickets sound. They are exempt.

 

[Anon430504]

I think that there’s an argument that can be made to increase the radius to 45 miles to level the playing field…

I mean it worked for Jackie Robinson West Little League until it didn’t

 

[Anon430504]

What do you make of ESL with the private/public debate?

They get more meaningful transfers than anyone but everyone turns a blind eye.

why?

Answering that would result in me getting banned

 

[crusader_of_90]

Answering that would result in me getting banned

Back the truck up!

Anyone know of other teams that have three players jammed up with their paperwork at this point?

Two guards and their center were missing last weekend.

 

[Colin2299]

Back the truck up!

Anyone know of other teams that have three players jammed up with their paperwork at this point?

Two guards and their center were missing last weekend.

Crusader - in all honesty, what’s your take on my question. You’re a private school die hard for your Alma mater and also go hard for ESL.

How does the IHSA set rules for privates but also address ESL? No one has received more meaningful transfers than ESL.

 

[crusader_of_90]

The rules are the rules. If a 6/5 sophomore guard gets tired of Doo-Doo brown and wants to wear the Colors of the Condors, and his address is or changes to one that is eligible for Curie, I check if the boxes are checked and move on.

LWE getting Jonas got some chuckles, not a rule review.

 

[jha618]

What do you make of ESL with the private/public debate?

They get more meaningful transfers than anyone but everyone turns a blind eye.

why?

Theres a thread somewhere every week about who and how ESL got a certain player to transfer.

And the word "meaningful" is sort of loaded. Transfers are transfers. ESL or MC shouldnt be punished just because their transfers are better than the transfers other schools get.

 

[Colin2299]

The rules are the rules. If a 6/5 sophomore guard gets tired of Doo-Doo brown and wants to wear the Colors of the Condors, and his address is or changes to one that is eligible for Curie, I check if the boxes are checked and move on.

LWE getting Jonas got some chuckles, not a rule review.

I get it.

Where my head scratches is the uproar about privates getting players and rules being put in place but nothing is done about ESL.

Batavia’s Piron was quoted as saying privates are operating more like IMG these days…

The IHSA wants to prevent total domination in a class like Driscoll…

Isn’t ESL more guilty of those two statements than anyone?

Is there anyone more guilty of winning with talent that wasn’t “homegrown”?

 

[crusader_of_90]

CPS hoops included?

The thing about ESL the municipality is that everyone in the area has a connection to it by family. Many whites who went to Cahokia were really from ESL, but they chose a different path. So what if a West End Belleville kid whose cousins are just a short Bi-State bus away decides to go to East Side, so be it. Just have your paperwork straight.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

Private schools should have a divisor.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

I get it.

Where my head scratches is the uproar about privates getting players and rules being put in place but nothing is done about ESL.

And I get it, too. Truly.

BUT, let's not say that nothing ever gets done. Back in 2010, and due to ESL's hanky panky, the IHSA stripped ESL of all 5 of their wins, rendering them ineligible for the playoffs that year. PLUS, they vacated all 10 of ESL's wins in 2009.

One would think that would be enough to cause ESL not to push the envelope, but they apparently have short memories. Either that, or they feel that the juice of pushing that envelope is worth the squeeze applied to them every blue moon

 

[McCaravan]

I mean it worked for Jackie Robinson West Little League until it didn’t

3 of them went to MC! . Not helping our cause there am I ?

 

[McCaravan]

I get it.

Where my head scratches is the uproar about privates getting players and rules being put in place but nothing is done about ESL.

Batavia’s Piron was quoted as saying privates are operating more like IMG these days…

The IHSA wants to prevent total domination in a class like Driscoll…

Isn’t ESL more guilty of those two statements than anyone?

Is there anyone more guilty of winning with talent that wasn’t “homegrown”?

Batavia gets a new player every year that moves there to play for them. Again there is different ways to recruit. Private schools just have less restrictions because they charge tuition to attend.

@Edgytim made a great point on his podcast last week. Private schools are in a way a business. They charge for a product they provide. Should you even have a radius? Does a pizza place boundaries on where they can deliver their pies too? They don't. When you think about it, it's the same thing. If someone lives in Peotone and wants to go to MC and will pay the tuition why should they be told that they can attend but not play Sports? Really why do you think mileage should restrict it? They want to go there, they are willing to pay the tuition and make the trip. It's their child, the IHSA should not be able to put restrictions on something you are paying for. Full disclosure I didn't even know about the 30 mile rule until a few years ago because of this exact reason....I'm paying for it!

And before the "You probably didn't pay" remarks come in, yes I did, and I worked numerous OT shifts to send all my kids to Catholic schools from pre-school on. And one of my sons was highly recruited players who played through College and I got a small alumni discount, that's it!

 

[4Afan]

Batavia gets a new player every year that moves there to play for them. Again there is different ways to recruit. Private schools just have less restrictions because they charge tuition to attend.

@Edgytim made a great point on his podcast last week. Private schools are in a way a business. They charge for a product they provide. Should you even have a radius? Does a pizza place boundaries on where they can deliver their pies too? They don't. When you think about it, it's the same thing. If someone lives in Peotone and wants to go to MC and will pay the tuition why should they be told that they can attend but not play Sports? Really why do you think mileage should restrict it? They want to go there, they are willing to pay the tuition and make the trip. It's their child, the IHSA should not be able to put restrictions on something you are paying for. Full disclosure I didn't even know about the 30 mile rule until a few years ago because of this exact reason....I'm paying for it!

And before the "You probably didn't pay" remarks come in, yes I did, and I worked numerous OT shifts to send all my kids to Catholic schools from pre-school on. And one of my sons was highly recruited players who played through College and I got a small alumni discount, that's it!

First off, pizza places absolutely have delivery boundaries, at least here in the city. Trust me, I'm about 6 blocks outside the delivery radius from my favorite spot.

Public and private schools exist together and play against each other here in illinois and the 30 mile radius is designed to keep the competitive balance in check, private schools get 30 miles, boundary schools get 5-10ish depending on the size of their district, which is often divided amongst multiple schools, especially in the burbs. You thinking MC should be allowed to let kids play from anywhere, with no radius just because they are willing to pay is just tone deaf. If that were the case then they would just be IMG hiding behind the cross.

To answer the original question, my opinion is two fold. First, out of sight, out of mind. While ESL has been the elite team in Illinois for years they're not in the Chicago area so not covered by Chicago media so, even for as dominant as they are, they can still lay in the weeds, so to speak.

The second factor to me is that they don't really boast about any tranafers that move into the district. Who is ESL's top transfer and where did he come from? Whereas it's talked about quite a lot regarding Naz's QB from Wisconsin, Franny's QB from ESL, the DL who went from StL to BR, etc.

Also, why do people say they are getting a pass? ESL is the only team I've heard about that had transfers held out of week 1 games.

 

[Still Missing34]

3 of them went to MC! . Not helping our cause there am I ?

Speaking of which, I was just asking about Ed Howard the other day. Baseball is a humbling sport.

 

[McCaravan]

First off, pizza places absolutely have delivery boundaries, at least here in the city. Trust me, I'm about 6 blocks outside the delivery radius from my favorite spot.

Public and private schools exist together and play against each other here in illinois and the 30 mile radius is designed to keep the competitive balance in check, private schools get 30 miles, boundary schools get 5-10ish depending on the size of their district, which is often divided amongst multiple schools, especially in the burbs. You thinking MC should be allowed to let kids play from anywhere, with no radius just because they are willing to pay is just tone deaf. If that were the case then they would just be IMG hiding behind the cross.

To answer the original question, my opinion is two fold. First, out of sight, out of mind. While ESL has been the elite team in Illinois for years they're not in the Chicago area so not covered by Chicago media so, even for as dominant as they are, they can still lay in the weeds, so to speak.

The second factor to me is that they don't really boast about any tranafers that move into the district. Who is ESL's top transfer and where did he come from? Whereas it's talked about quite a lot regarding Naz's QB from Wisconsin, Franny's QB from ESL, the DL who went from StL to BR, etc.

Also, why do people say they are getting a pass? ESL is the only team I've heard about that had transfers held out of week 1 games.

Pizza boundaries are set by the owner and how far they are willing to send their drivers and have them return, but their is no law. But that aside....

Good point that what happens at ESL is not covered in the Chicago area so many of us are in the dark to what goes on. If not for @crusader_of_90 I would know very little about them, and he isn't even a alum, employee or father of current or former student so his intel is damn impressive . They seem to get plenty of transfers, notable this year was the kicker but is looks like they were not alone.

And on the radius....people on here, yourself included, is more then fine if they come from beyond 30 miles, they just can't participate in Sports which I think is ridiculous.

 

[CoachAgro95]

What do you make of ESL with the private/public debate?

They get more meaningful transfers than anyone but everyone turns a blind eye.

why?

There are a lot of Aunts, Uncles and Grandparents in ESL that have very athletic family members. They can't help it. Or like Sunkett said years earlier, "I don't know where kids live. I coach the kids who set foot on our football field, to the best of my ability, and that's all I do."

 

[4Afan]

And on the radius....people on here, yourself included, is more then fine if they come from beyond 30 miles, they just can't participate in Sports which I think is ridiculous.

So using your logic, schools like MC should be able to recruit kids from anywhere they please and they should be allowed to participate in sports and come playoff time they can enter the IHSA tournaments to play against schools confined by their districts.

You're gonna need to make that one make sense.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

So using your logic, schools like MC should be able to recruit kids from anywhere they please and they should be allowed to participate in sports and come playoff time they can enter the IHSA tournaments to play against schools confined by their districts.

You're gonna need to make that one make sense.

The real problem, as I see it, at least in jest, is that when you remove boundaries from public schools, they seem to cheat.

At least that was the case for Quincy... QND, never busted for recruiting players, nor have we actually recruited... QHS... busted for recruiting a kid from Pittsfield in 2002... So by my logic, it's the pubs that are the problem.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

So using your logic, schools like MC should be able to recruit kids from anywhere they please and they should be allowed to participate in sports and come playoff time they can enter the IHSA tournaments to play against schools confined by their districts.

You're gonna need to make that one make sense.

The way I see it, you're going to get your way eventually, and nothing really will change as drastically as many seem to believe. The same handful of public schools, all suburban or attached to larger populations and recipients of transfers often, will start winning all the titles... Then that's where the complaints will go. Removing private schools doesn't equate to more fairness, nor does it make top tier suburban districts less attractive, just equals less private school titles against public school competition. But then again, I guess that's really what you want out of this, right? More titles for ESL, Batavia, Rochester, Morris and (insert Chicago suburb here) and less for MC, JCA, Montini, SHG... And in the process you only really hurt the smaller private schools, because the same will be true in a private only world... JCA, Montini, MC, SHG will still win all the titles. But yeah, fairness and stuff for all...

 

[McCaravan]

The way I see it, you're going to get your way eventually, and nothing really will change as drastically as many seem to believe. The same handful of public schools, all suburban or attached to larger populations and recipients of transfers often, will start winning all the titles... Then that's where the complaints will go. Removing private schools doesn't equate to more fairness, nor does it make top tier suburban districts less attractive, just equals less private school titles against public school competition. But then again, I guess that's really what you want out of this, right? More titles for ESL, Batavia, Rochester, Morris and (insert Chicago suburb here) and less for MC, JCA, Montini, SHG... And in the process you only really hurt the smaller private schools, because the same will be true in a private only world... JCA, Montini, MC, SHG will still win all the titles. But yeah, fairness and stuff for all...

Great post!

 

[McCaravan]

So using your logic, schools like MC should be able to recruit kids from anywhere they please and they should be allowed to participate in sports and come playoff time they can enter the IHSA tournaments to play against schools confined by their districts.

You're gonna need to make that one make sense.

Neither one of us will understand or agree with one another's thoughts on this. We did not grow up in each other's environments or have the same experiences so arguing this further is like arguing Politics, Religion, Bears/Packers or Sox/Cubs. So let's agree to disagree and bow out.

 

[LWN_Pheonix]

Another big disadvantage that public schools have is the fact that they get tax payer money to play with and at times have very little oversight.
Imagine if the privates could pay this much

 

[LWN_Pheonix]

The public school resources are just so much better than the privates

I hope one day that things are on a level playing field

 

[McCaravan]

Paul Finebaum had a great comment on First Take this morning when discussing the Big Ten plan to ban NFL players from returning to Big Ten schools to play their 5th year by saying "They can propose whatever they want, they'll just be wasting paper because these players will take it to court and it will be overturned".

It made me think of the IHSA, they also have rules that get challenged in court and lose. Hence why everything has gone out of control. If IHSA tells people where they can or can't attend school, especially if that person is willing to pay to attend that school.....lawyer up! I'm not a "I'll sue" type person but I'm the minority in that way of thinking.

 

[4Afan]

Another big disadvantage that public schools have is the fact that they get tax payer money to play with and at times have very little oversight.
Imagine if the privates could pay this much

View attachment 1406797

Notice the asterisk at the bottom. That includes their teaching salaries as well. Most schools stipend for h3ad football coaches is south of $15k.

 

[Travelin Fan]

The pizza analogy is really a stretch (heh...heh?!?!)

It's less akin to delivery distance and more related to where you can get your ingredients. I make a pizza with tomatoes, cheese, pepperoni, flour, salt, and sugar from within my boundaries but my competitor can import from wherever.

I don't spend much time on this debate, but I'm not going to let pizza slip past my purview and not comment. Also, provel cheese on pizza should be outlawed. It's nasty.

 

[Roamin' Catholic]

Notice the asterisk at the bottom. That includes their teaching salaries as well. Most schools stipend for h3ad football coaches is south of $15k.

Completely avoids the point but yeah sure... Public schools can provide these salaries AND a FT position. If a private does the same, HC+FT position it'll still be far less... how much do you think private school football coaches are getting paid? You seem to live in the magical old world belief that all private schools are full of wealth and cash trees to supply their athletic wants and desires just growing in their courtyards.

 

[Doctor_D]