US National Debt Added Per President

[RagnarLothbrok]

The problem is that you can't separate the person and their policies. Those are lies you tell yourself to make you feel better about your decision. You might support some things like getting Europe to defend themselves and contribute to NATO, tightening up of borders, trying to even the playing field for international trade which have some benefits from a policy standpoint. However, the amount of corruption he's exhibited, disregard for communally held sacred things like the Whitehouse and its architecture, constant spreading of conspiracy theory about election fraud while destabilizing democracy, and eroding the US standing on international affairs (PM wants to take a photo with me), etc has all had a large impact on America. So yes, a man of poor character is representing the US poorly.

I don't like George Bush as a republican. However, I never once thought he was doing something for his own gain. Unfortunately he surrounded himself with too many Hawks and destabilized the Mid East, but I never though for a second he didn't believe the Iraq war was the right thing for America at the time. Instead we have our current president who is accepting planes from Qatar.

This is such a fantastic post! I was a big W supporter in college but later regretted my support of the Iraq War. Despite Bush’s many faults, no one fair could question his patriotism or sincerity in doing what he believed was best for America.

That is not the case with Trump. I mean, the guy tries to project this extreme patriotic love for America, but he is so fugging stupid his phoniness is obvious to anyone with half a functioning brain. The guy literally could not care less about anyone or anything other than himself.

Oh, and the whole “I didn’t vote for the man but his policies” apologetic drivel. One, they are inextricably linked. Two, other than MAGA pud-pulling to anti-LGBTQ rhetoric and xenophobia, I don’t think anyone in the MAGA Idiot Brigade can name an actual Trump policy that one) is an actual policy and two) hasn’t flip flopped ad nauseam. Of course, we’re talking about the same people who once railed about the importance of character when Clinton was in office. Funny, how that changed in a hurry not even twenty years later.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Carter added $0.3T, less than the Nixon/Ford term at $0.35T, and just over a third of what Reagan would give us in his first term $0.83T.

Again, I am just using an approximate 50-year window to demonstrate the overall point about fiscal irresponsibility based off the year (1981) when we eclipsed $1 trillion. I was trying to be fair in the face of any time frame being somewhat arbitrary, so, yeah I included Carter solely for that reason.

Yes, I agree, fiscal irresponsibility really took off under Reagan and went charging downward toward a steep cliff when W went off course and steered the bus in that direction.

And I do fear we are about to fly over the edge with Trump now behind the wheel for a second time. Unfortunately, it was inevitable—long before “grab ‘em by the p#ssy” became associated with politics.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

Again, I am just using an approximate 50-year window to demonstrate the overall point about fiscal irresponsibility based off the year (1981) when we eclipsed $1 trillion. I was trying to be fair in the face of any time frame being somewhat arbitrary, so, yeah I included Carter solely for that reason.

Yes, I agree, fiscal irresponsibility really took off under Reagan and went charging downward toward a steep cliff when W went off course and steered the bus in that direction.

And I do fear we are about to fly over the edge with Trump now behind the wheel for a second time. Unfortunately, it was inevitable—long before “grab ‘em by the p#ssy” became associated with politics.

That was the lesson learned from Carter's presidency, who was a fiscally responsible president in terms of spending/revenue. Inflation kills a presidency, nobody GAF about deficits.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

That was the lesson learned from Carter's presidency, who was a fiscally responsible president in terms of spending/revenue. Inflation kills a presidency, nobody GAF about deficits.

Funny thing, outside of the MIB, would there be a single American today who wouldn’t prefer Jimmy Carter’s inflation problem and Iran f#ckup to Trump’s?

 

[baltimorened]

The problem is that you can't separate the person and their policies. Those are lies you tell yourself to make you feel better about your decision. You might support some things like getting Europe to defend themselves and contribute to NATO, tightening up of borders, trying to even the playing field for international trade which have some benefits from a policy standpoint. However, the amount of corruption he's exhibited, disregard for communally held sacred things like the Whitehouse and its architecture, constant spreading of conspiracy theory about election fraud while destabilizing democracy, and eroding the US standing on international affairs (PM wants to take a photo with me), etc has all had a large impact on America. So yes, a man of poor character is representing the US poorly.

I don't like George Bush as a republican. However, I never once thought he was doing something for his own gain. Unfortunately he surrounded himself with too many Hawks and destabilized the Mid East, but I never though for a second he didn't believe the Iraq war was the right thing for America at the time. Instead we have our current president who is accepting planes from Qatar.

I don't disagree (almost) with your post. But, I can separate the person and the policies....maybe you can't. But I might detest trump as a person and agree on your statements about corruption etc. But I do agree that Europe should pay for it's own defense, tightening our borders, and even leveling the playing first for international trade. Those are good policies generated by a flawed man.

At the same time, I think Biden was/is a good man. I dealt with him when he was a senator, but I disagreed with a lot of his policies. This is the opposite of your post. I separate the good man from bad policies. Same with Clinton...I thought he was a good President, but I didn't agree with all of his policies, and I certainly wouldn't want my daughter working for him..

In my mind, no one is perfect, and no one is right, or wrong all the time. Some of you guys are opposite thinkers. You hate trump and that clouds a lot of your support or lack of support. See, I can even support a policy and not support it's implementation. I support ICE and the requirement to enforce immigration law....but I don't support the implementation of the law, i'e, the tactics used.

Not everyone sees the things the way I do, and I understand that. But a lot of people do agree. I'm just not one who is aligned with policies because of the party or the person.

 

[Lindemann]

by itself this chart is worthless and Kinzinger knows it. Are these figures based on the 4 year terms or the actual payouts of the funds? And how many members of the opposite parties have voted for the fund's appropriations?

Not defending Trump...his terms have been fiscally irresponsible, but he's not alone in that.

Yes, you're defending Trump.

 

[Urohawk]

I don't disagree (almost) with your post. But, I can separate the person and the policies....maybe you can't. But I might detest trump as a person and agree on your statements about corruption etc. But I do agree that Europe should pay for it's own defense, tightening our borders, and even leveling the playing first for international trade. Those are good policies generated by a flawed man.

At the same time, I think Biden was/is a good man. I dealt with him when he was a senator, but I disagreed with a lot of his policies. This is the opposite of your post. I separate the good man from bad policies. Same with Clinton...I thought he was a good President, but I didn't agree with all of his policies, and I certainly wouldn't want my daughter working for him..

In my mind, no one is perfect, and no one is right, or wrong all the time. Some of you guys are opposite thinkers. You hate trump and that clouds a lot of your support or lack of support. See, I can even support a policy and not support it's implementation. I support ICE and the requirement to enforce immigration law....but I don't support the implementation of the law, i'e, the tactics used.

Not everyone sees the things the way I do, and I understand that. But a lot of people do agree. I'm just not one who is aligned with policies because of the party or the person.

I can't agree with you. The leader of the free world should be a good and upstanding moral person. I can't call many immoral except for maybe Nixon in the last 75 years and now Trump. The personality and character is causing problems with the presidency, democracy, and foreign relations.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I don't disagree (almost) with your post. But, I can separate the person and the policies....maybe you can't. But I might detest trump as a person and agree on your statements about corruption etc. But I do agree that Europe should pay for it's own defense, tightening our borders, and even leveling the playing first for international trade. Those are good policies generated by a flawed man.

At the same time, I think Biden was/is a good man. I dealt with him when he was a senator, but I disagreed with a lot of his policies. This is the opposite of your post. I separate the good man from bad policies. Same with Clinton...I thought he was a good President, but I didn't agree with all of his policies, and I certainly wouldn't want my daughter working for him..

In my mind, no one is perfect, and no one is right, or wrong all the time. Some of you guys are opposite thinkers. You hate trump and that clouds a lot of your support or lack of support. See, I can even support a policy and not support it's implementation. I support ICE and the requirement to enforce immigration law....but I don't support the implementation of the law, i'e, the tactics used.

Not everyone sees the things the way I do, and I understand that. But a lot of people do agree. I'm just not one who is aligned with policies because of the party or the person.

What a load of horse sh*t.

 

[baltimorened]

This is such a fantastic post! I was a big W supporter in college but later regretted my support of the Iraq War. Despite Bush’s many faults, no one fair could question his patriotism or sincerity in doing what he believed was best for America.

That is not the case with Trump. I mean, the guy tries to project this extreme patriotic love for America, but he is so fugging stupid his phoniness is obvious to anyone with half a functioning brain. The guy literally could not care less about anyone or anything other than himself.

Oh, and the whole “I didn’t vote for the man but his policies” apologetic drivel. One, they are inextricably linked. Two, other than MAGA pud-pulling to anti-LGBTQ rhetoric and xenophobia, I don’t think anyone in the MAGA Idiot Brigade can name an actual Trump policy that one) is an actual policy and two) hasn’t flip flopped ad nauseam. Of course, we’re talking about the same people who once railed about the importance of character when Clinton was in office. Funny, how that changed in a hurry not even twenty years later.

well, every one is entitled to their opinion....I vote for policies...you might think that apologetic, I don't. I can separate a man/woman from what I think about them as a person from what they are proposing as policy for the country. I may not like Trump and a lot of the things he does, but I do like some of his policies....

Just because you detest someone personally, doesn't mean everything he does is bad....

Like I said, I thought Biden was/is a good man...doesn't mean I liked all his policies. Same principle only in reverse.

And, if I understand you correctly, if Trump came up with a proposal to cut $1 trillion from the deficit without cutting current social programs or increasing taxes, you'd be against it because it came from trump..

 

[Huey Grey 2]

well, every one is entitled to their opinion....I vote for policies...you might think that apologetic, I don't. I can separate a man/woman from what I think about them as a person from what they are proposing as policy for the country. I may not like Trump and a lot of the things he does, but I do like some of his policies....

Just because you detest someone personally, doesn't mean everything he does is bad....

Like I said, I thought Biden was/is a good man...doesn't mean I liked all his policies. Same principle only in reverse.

And, if I understand you correctly, if Trump came up with a proposal to cut $1 trillion from the deficit without cutting current social programs or increasing taxes, you'd be against it because it came from trump..

What policies do you agree with? His stupid war? His stupid tariffs? Using ICE to kill Americans? Higher gas prices? No job creation? Belittling our allies? Siding with Russia and North Korea? Letting China become more powerful as we grow weaker?

Which of these do you like so much?

And GTFO with your hypothetical. Trump didn't cut spending. He put spending on steroids WHILE cutting social safety nets. You're a liar Bins.

 

[Palmerhawk]

I don't disagree (almost) with your post. But, I can separate the person and the policies....maybe you can't. But I might detest trump as a person and agree on your statements about corruption etc. But I do agree that Europe should pay for it's own defense, tightening our borders, and even leveling the playing first for international trade. Those are good policies generated by a flawed man.

At the same time, I think Biden was/is a good man. I dealt with him when he was a senator, but I disagreed with a lot of his policies. This is the opposite of your post. I separate the good man from bad policies. Same with Clinton...I thought he was a good President, but I didn't agree with all of his policies, and I certainly wouldn't want my daughter working for him..

In my mind, no one is perfect, and no one is right, or wrong all the time. Some of you guys are opposite thinkers. You hate trump and that clouds a lot of your support or lack of support. See, I can even support a policy and not support it's implementation. I support ICE and the requirement to enforce immigration law....but I don't support the implementation of the law, i'e, the tactics used.

Not everyone sees the things the way I do, and I understand that. But a lot of people do agree. I'm just not one who is aligned with policies because of the party or the person.

How much corruption would you overlook because you like a couple of his policies?
I know, Mussolini got trains to run on time,right?

Does character matter in leadership?
Does it factor in at all in the leader of the free world?
Does lying over 25,000 times in his first term and ramping that number up this term matter at all?

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

well, every one is entitled to their opinion....I vote for policies...you might think that apologetic, I don't. I can separate a man/woman from what I think about them as a person from what they are proposing as policy for the country. I may not like Trump and a lot of the things he does, but I do like some of his policies....

Just because you detest someone personally, doesn't mean everything he does is bad....

Like I said, I thought Biden was/is a good man...doesn't mean I liked all his policies. Same principle only in reverse.

And, if I understand you correctly, if Trump came up with a proposal to cut $1 trillion from the deficit without cutting current social programs or increasing taxes, you'd be against it because it came from trump..

Under normal circumstances, I would be inclined to agree with you. The problem is not only is Trump abnormal, he’s reckless and dangerous. So, your point is not a good one because you’re trying to normalize Trump.

What policies of Trump’s do you believe are beneficial to the American people? To go a step further, what policies has Trump been able to get passed that another conservative politician wouldn’t have?

 

[prlyles]

I personally think just hating or disliking something just because of which party proposes/supports it is counterproductive.

Please give an example of this.

 

[LunchBox50]

And Batman Bins strikes again.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

 

[alaskanseminole]

The problem is that you can't separate the person and their policies. Those are lies you tell yourself to make you feel better about your decision. You might support some things like getting Europe to defend themselves and contribute to NATO, tightening up of borders, trying to even the playing field for international trade which have some benefits from a policy standpoint. However, the amount of corruption he's exhibited, disregard for communally held sacred things like the Whitehouse and its architecture, constant spreading of conspiracy theory about election fraud while destabilizing democracy, and eroding the US standing on international affairs (PM wants to take a photo with me), etc has all had a large impact on America. So yes, a man of poor character is representing the US poorly.

I don't like George Bush as a republican. However, I never once thought he was doing something for his own gain. Unfortunately he surrounded himself with too many Hawks and destabilized the Mid East, but I never though for a second he didn't believe the Iraq war was the right thing for America at the time. Instead we have our current president who is accepting planes from Qatar.

 

[fsu1jreed]

What a perfect name

He appears when MAGAsign is turned on

 

[ESMDHawk]

Funny thing, outside of the MIB, would there be a single American today who wouldn’t prefer Jimmy Carter’s inflation problem and Iran f#ckup to Trump’s?

Hate Trump, think he's a tool and the Iran attack was a ridiculous and foolish endeavor. However, having been alive during that time (at 45, you weren't), I can tell you that I GREATLY prefer today's 3.4% inflation rate to Carters average of 9.85% with a peak of 14% in the spring of 1980. Couple that with close to 20% mortgage rates and THAT was real pain. Agree on the Iran part, as that was self-inflicted.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

Hate Trump, think he's a tool and the Iran attack was a ridiculous and foolish endeavor. However, having been alive during that time (at 45, you weren't), I can tell you that I GREATLY prefer today's 3.4% inflation rate to Carters average of 9.85% with a peak of 14% in the spring of 1980. Couple that with close to 20% mortgage rates and THAT was real pain. Agree on the Iran part, as that was self-inflicted.

As I said, inflation kills a presidency. Nobody gives a f*ck about deficit spending... which Carter refused to allow. There was no new entitlement spending in his four-year term. He even turned down a modest tax cut in his election year to focus on debt.

 

[baltimorened]

How much corruption would you overlook because you like a couple of his policies?
I know, Mussolini got trains to run on time,right?

Does character matter in leadership?
Does it factor in at all in the leader of the free world?
Does lying over 25,000 times in his first term and ramping that number up this term matter at all?

you're convoluting what I'm saying. I'm certainly not defending his character and I don't know how many times or how many ways I can say that....but, regardless of his character, can't I support closing the border, national defense, getting European countries to belly up for their own defense, strengthening our trade positions at the same time?

 

[ESMDHawk]

As I said, inflation kills a presidency. Nobody gives a f*ck about deficit spending... which Carter refused to allow. There was no new entitlement spending in his four-year term. He even turned down a modest tax cut in his election year to focus on debt.

Although I don't wish for a return to those days, I would dearly love to have leaders who have some principles when it comes to managing the debt and deficit.

 

[baltimorened]

Please give an example of this.

I just named a couple in a post above.

Please give an example of this.

Not to be snarky, but are you reading this entire thread. One of the posters named 3 things that Trump has done that are good, and just about every other posters has challenged me because they are trump policies and I can't possibly support those because trump is corrupt, etc.

Now look at the things the opposing party has opposed....en masse...no tax on tips or overtime, and that's just one example. You really believe that every Democrat in the house is against that? But everyone voted against it....that's just one example...heck even Kamala's campaign supported it

 

[Urohawk]

I just named a couple in a post above.

Not to be snarky, but are you reading this entire thread. One of the posters named 3 things that Trump has done that are good, and just about every other posters has challenged me because they are trump policies and I can't possibly support those because trump is corrupt, etc.

Now look at the things the opposing party has opposed....en masse...no tax on tips or overtime, and that's just one example. You really believe that every Democrat in the house is against that? But everyone voted against it....that's just one example...heck even Kamala's campaign supported it

I think your point is well taken, that we don't have to like everything about a president. I named 3 random things I thought conservatives would like about Trump. As a democrat, Bill Clinton is a good example of what your saying. I don't like his personal conduct in regards to Monica Lewinski, but I don't really hold adultery as a big deal. The power differential in that relationship is concerning. However, overall he was a good president.

I do disagree with your premise that you shouldn't be against trump because of his policies. I think you would have gotten many of those policies with another republican candidate. Trump is a terrible president. He's not presidential, extremely corrupt, erratic in regards to policy, panders to compliments, has eroded foreign belief in America as an ally, and cheapened democracy, etc. I think the point is, many of us think those are so heinous that the overcome any value his policies may bring about.

 

[baltimorened]

I think your point is well taken, that we don't have to like everything about a president. I named 3 random things I thought conservatives would like about Trump. As a democrat, Bill Clinton is a good example of what your saying. I don't like his personal conduct in regards to Monica Lewinski, but I don't really hold adultery as a big deal. The power differential in that relationship is concerning. However, overall he was a good president.

I do disagree with your premise that you shouldn't be against trump because of his policies. I think you would have gotten many of those policies with another republican candidate. Trump is a terrible president. He's not presidential, extremely corrupt, erratic in regards to policy, panders to compliments, has eroded foreign belief in America as an ally, and cheapened democracy, etc. I think the point is, many of us think those are so heinous that the overcome any value his policies may bring about.

well I won't disagree that trump has brought a lot of the antagonism in himself. cigaretteman posted a Washington post article that sums up where trump is right now in his presidency..and his policies and character..

funny, I said the same thing about Clinton....I thought he was a good president...I didn't agree with all his policies - I don't agree with a lot of Trump's - and the Monica Lewinsky issue was a negative. But I didn't judge Clinton on character, but his policies....

 

[Rastafarian]

Amazing that the guy who bankrupted a casino is doing the same to this country.

And the craziest thing is he inherited a strong economy. Obama inherited the worst financial crisis in 70 years. Biden inherited a global pandemic.

Can’t believe a single person supports this clown.

 

[DoubleDutch]

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL

HEHEHEHEHEHEHE

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Hate Trump, think he's a tool and the Iran attack was a ridiculous and foolish endeavor. However, having been alive during that time (at 45, you weren't), I can tell you that I GREATLY prefer today's 3.4% inflation rate to Carters average of 9.85% with a peak of 14% in the spring of 1980. Couple that with close to 20% mortgage rates and THAT was real pain. Agree on the Iran part, as that was self-inflicted.

You’re right. My greater point is overall I think normal people are just sick of Trump.

 

[dpic73]

 

[baltimorened]

I have two questions on this.....is the debt as bad an issue as we think it is? We have members of both parties, who know the situation calling for increases expenditures - go no further back to ACA subsidies or warren's calls for universal child care - with the pay for "tax the billionaires" . If we assume a dollar for dollar trade off. that would mean zero impact on the debt.

is there any scenario you see where we could come to an agreement (in Congress) where we would set a deficit reduction goal - say cut the deficit over x years by X amount each year until we get to surplus - with reductions in spending and tax increases. Raising the tax revenue is easy, There are plenty of ways to do that. But, what would you cut??

 

[ESMDHawk]

You’re right. My greater point is overall I think normal people are just sick of Trump.

I'm with you brother.

 

[baltimorened]

I'm with you brother.

that's why I've said Trump won't run for a third term...people can' take 8 years