U.S. Debt Hits $40 Trillion

[OG Goat Holder]

I am shocked that people dont consider many of his actions/declarations/policies to be disastrous.

- His inability to understand the difference between a trade deficit and a subsidy has resulted in a near 2 year long economic fight with Canada, that has continually resulted in him saying in various ways that Canada should become part of the USA.(not gonna list out the insane Greenland threats that seemed to come around the same time)

- His handling of tariffs will be studied in history and economic classes as example A for what not to do. Speaking of Canada, I saw he just announced that a 50% tariff on them is paused for now(of course it is). His abuse of tariff power on the world has made the US a complete joke. Everyone still has to trade with us and put up with us because we are valuable, but we are a total joke. The wiplash everyone has had to sit through over the last 18mo as he would declare tariffs, add to them, reduce them, add new ones atop current ones, pause them, implement them the same day others announced they were paused, then add new ones again because nobody can even keep up on what is tariffed, has been awful. Simply awful. It has been completely unnecessary. Placing tariffs on places on the map that arent even inhabited is just another level of bonkers.

- The lies, misinformation, and weaponization of DOGE has hurt us as a country. The break first ask questions later(if ever) approach was reprehensible. Meanwhile the GAO couldnt provide supporting data for 96% of grant savings claimed by DOGE. Countless people were fired from very necessary jobs, only to possibly be brought back because the jobs were actually necessary.
And all of the publicized DOGE drama ultimately 'saved' nothing at all close to what was initially claimed, and not at all close to what was subsequently claimed.

- We are in a worse place for global health than we were before Trump 2.0 because we arent as collaborative on disease work, which is irresponsible. We have reduced access to real-time global data and we have reduced global disease tracking...which hurts Americans.

- Trump's legendary grifting has generated billions for family and friends, and policies he holds as President are directly responsible for that. The Crypto scheming his family partake in, and his positions and policies on said marketplaces, is one of many specific examples.
It is all being done to benefit him and those around him, at the expense of improving the lives of Americans.

- Trump's war with Iran is so completely unreal that it is difficult to even know where to start. He and his administration just straight up lie countless times a day, they gaslight and attack when presented with reality, and he has threatened war crimes(actual established war crimes) more times than I can count.
It is a total disaster. Even if it ended tomorrow(I hear the Strait is fully open and has been...yet barely anything is moving), it will go down as a total disaster of a war/wars/operations(whatever they are cheekily calling it at a given moment). The war of choice, and it absolutely was a choice, has hurt international relations and cost Americans BILLIONS.
Right now, we are trying to just get back to how things were before the war and not come out even worse off. Seriously, that is the current best case scenario...returning to the status quo.

- His continued support of RFK's work to undermine medical best practices, and the policies that have come from said support, is disasterous and abhorrent.

- His policy for him and his administration to berate, insult, lie about, and attack basically any questions or criticism that pokes holes in the obvious lies they are telling, is disgusting. The fundamental destruction of decorum is disasterous.

He might have done some good had he been re-elected the first time. But it's like the universe said no during 2020. And then him trying to do the same stupid stuff in 2024 without any reflection was the worst part.

 

[Barkman Turner Overdrive]

The elderly and children are way different in age and way too similar in logic and reasoning.

And both have similar diaper changing requirements.

 

[CascillaCountryClub]

Has it totally 17ed our healthcare?

 

[TilloDwg]

Lets make SS voluntary, and stop funding anything not in the Constitution. Radical idea I know...

 

[85Bears]

Lets make SS voluntary, and stop funding anything not in the Constitution. Radical idea I know...

Anyone holding those views will be kicked out of office by wealthy lobbies, see Thomas Massie

 

[mstateglfr]

Lets make SS voluntary, and stop funding anything not in the Constitution. Radical idea I know...

So...what would be the purpose of legislators?
They create laws based on the Constitution, but that aren't in the Constitution.

All that would stop being funded?
Yes, that would be radical.

 

[TilloDwg]

Anyone holding those views will be kicked out of office by wealthy lobbies, see Thomas Massie

We could vote in enough common sense people that it wouldn't matter....the system is seriously ****** up, but the fix is easy.

 

[TilloDwg]

So...what would be the purpose of legislators?
They create laws based on the Constitution, but that aren't in the Constitution.

All that would stop being funded?
Yes, that would be radical.

Like in the beginning, there wouldn't be much need. Hell, the Senate only works 2.5 days a week now. Send em all home and let them do their do nothing work from there. Also, they should work for free. They get rich for playing along now...

 

[85Bears]

We could vote in enough common sense people that it wouldn't matter....the system is seriously ****** up, but the fix is easy.

That would be nice, probably would have to get the money out of politics(citizens united decision) , then go back to paper ballots with a paper trail for reliable recounts.

i Doubt the powers that be would allow real reform.

 

[TilloDwg]

That would be nice, probably would have to get the money out of politics(citizens united decision) , then go back to paper ballots with a paper trail for reliable recounts.

i Doubt the powers that be would allow real reform.

True. When 95% keep getting re-elected, blame can only go one place.

 

[skip dog]

Well, Congress holds the purse strings

 

[John Deaux VII]

True. When 95% keep getting re-elected, blame can only go one place.

The theory of democracy is that people get the government they deserve....

 

[Podgy]

Lets make SS voluntary, and stop funding anything not in the Constitution. Radical idea I know...

The wealthy will opt out leaving primarily poor people.

 

[Podgy]

True. When 95% keep getting re-elected, blame can only go one place.

Voters? Is that a critique of American democracy?

 

[TilloDwg]

The wealthy will opt out leaving primarily poor people.

Social Security....an idea so great, it had to be mandantory

 

[Podgy]

Social Security....an idea so great, it had to be mandantory

All countries have some version of it and we became a super power after it was enacted. Just fund it properly.

 

[Podgy]

Trivia Question based on a new study: Since WWII, which president is responsible for the largest increase in the national debt despite promising to reduce the national debt during his campaign?

 

[leeinator]

All countries have some version of it and we became a super power after it was enacted. Just fund it properly.

And manage it properly. There is a ton of fraud.....get rid of that or at least get it down to a minimum and we'll have a lot of money to fund it.

 

[johnson86-1]

Trivia Question based on a new study: Since WWII, which president is responsible for the largest increase in the national debt despite promising to reduce the national debt during his campaign?

Trick question. Congress has the power of the purse. President's have tried to assert the authority to impound funds appropriated by Congress, and to my knowledge have been shot down by courts every time. Hell, Trump lost in court when he just tried to pause spending that is in theory within the control of the administration to reflect the administration's priorities.

 

[mstateglfr]

And manage it properly. There is a ton of fraud.....get rid of that or at least get it down to a minimum and we'll have a lot of money to fund it.

There was $88million in Social Security fraud in 2023, per the Social Security Administration.

That's not nothing, but it also so small that it isn't even a fraction I can figure out, since $1.34 trillion was paid out in 2023.

 

[Podgy]

There isn't much social security fraud. It's not properly funded and we're a gerontocracy. The elderly tend to get what they want.

 

[leeinator]

There isn't much social security fraud. It's not properly funded and we're a gerontocracy. The elderly tend to get what they want.

Last time I checked the non-elderly will get the same as the current-elderly when they become elderly.

 

[8dog]

Last time I checked the non-elderly will get the same as the current-elderly when they become elderly.

Then you need to check again bc something will have to change.

 

[DesotoCountyDawg]

Last time I checked the non-elderly will get the same as the current-elderly when they become elderly.

Yeah umm, that’s not even remotely correct.

 

[TilloDwg]

All countries have some version of it and we became a super power after it was enacted. Just fund it properly.

Yes, coercion is the key....

 

[grinningmule]

There was $88million in Social Security fraud in 2023, per the Social Security Administration.

That's not nothing, but it also so small that it isn't even a fraction I can figure out, since $1.34 trillion was paid out in 2023.

That may be all that was identified but this chart from 2023 is pretty eye opening on who gets payments.
Beginning in 1989 over 50% of payments of SSI are for under age 65. In December 2023, 83.5% of SSI payments were listed as disabled recipients with over 54% total being under age 65.

 

[mstateglfr]

Last time I checked the non-elderly will get the same as the current-elderly when they become elderly.

Edited.
Low hanging.

 

[Podgy]

Yes, coercion is the key....

Sure. I get that. But we live in a society and democracy. Others get to decide the degree of coercion. I suspect few would vote to change it and politicians don't want to touch it. We've gone from like 16:1 contributors to recipients to around 3:1. Americans aren't having many kids anymore and we live longer than previous generations after retiring.

 

[TilloDwg]

Sure. I get that. But we live in a society and democracy. Others get to decide the degree of coercion. I suspect few would vote to change it and politicians don't want to touch it. We've gone from like 16:1 contributors to recipients to around 3:1. Americans aren't having many kids anymore and we live longer than previous generations after retiring.

Yeah, well politicians don't want to do anything anymore/ Ending it and letting people decide for themselves is the correct move. Let anyone who wishes to remain on it do so til death, or receive tax credits for what they're owed, and don't let anyone else on at certain date or birth.
Id bet a small fortune most would opt out. Why stay on something that costs you that much money ?

 

[Podgy]

Yeah, well politicians don't want to do anything anymore/ Ending it and letting people decide for themselves is the correct move. Let anyone who wishes to remain on it do so til death, or receive tax credits for what they're owed, and don't let anyone else on at certain date or birth.
Id bet a small fortune most would opt out. Why stay on something that costs you that much money ?

Because the elderly were the most impoverished group in America before it was instituted (along with Medicare). Life has gotten better in America for the elderly and pretty much everyone else since it was instituted. We don't want mass poverty among the elderly. Have a politician pitch your plan to the voters and see what happens. We live in a democracy. Voting matters.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Because old people like to spend money as much as disabled people, lazy people, and the people who like to consider themselves wealthy and need to flaunt it.

All of it is designed to prop up a consumer-based economic system that keeps money flowing up.

The truly wealthy rake it all in.

Now back to gardening.

 

[ckDOG]

Because old people like to spend money as much as disabled people, lazy people, and the people who like to consider themselves wealthy and need to flaunt it.

All of it is designed to prop up a consumer-based economic system that keeps money flowing up.

The truly wealthy rake it all in.

Now back to gardening.

Somebody gets the big picture. Keep the middle class, poors, and olds funded juuuust enough to keep consuming and be blissfully naive. Keep printing more money to flow through them them and ultimately upward and retained by the wealthiest of the wealthy. Repeat repeat repeat until the system topples and the naive find their pitchforks and the wealthy have to figure out how to retreat to their bunkers or homes in other countries.

 

[8dog]

Yeah, well politicians don't want to do anything anymore/ Ending it and letting people decide for themselves is the correct move. Let anyone who wishes to remain on it do so til death, or receive tax credits for what they're owed, and don't let anyone else on at certain date or birth.
Id bet a small fortune most would opt out. Why stay on something that costs you that much money ?

I wish I could opt out but Im also trying to Imagine the absolute cluster when most Americans who opted out get to their 60s and 70s without a dime in savings.

 

[dorndawg]

I wish I could opt out but Im also trying to Imagine the absolute cluster when most Americans who opted out get to their 60s and 70s without a dime in savings.

You don't have to imagine it. This was the documented reality pre-New Deal.

 

[DoggieDaddy13]

Somebody gets the big picture. Keep the middle class, poors, and olds funded juuuust enough to keep consuming and be blissfully naive. Keep printing more money to flow through them them and ultimately upward and retained by the wealthiest of the wealthy. Repeat repeat repeat until the system topples and the naive find their pitchforks and the wealthy have to figure out how to retreat to their bunkers or homes in other countries.

 

[dudehead]

Somebody gets the big picture. Keep the middle class, poors, and olds funded juuuust enough to keep consuming and be blissfully naive. Keep printing more money to flow through them them and ultimately upward and retained by the wealthiest of the wealthy. Repeat repeat repeat until the system topples and the naive find their pitchforks and the wealthy have to figure out how to retreat to their bunkers or homes in other countries.

Yep, the Romans called it "bread and circus." I submit to you that NCAA football is a part of our modern day "bread and circus."

 

[johnson86-1]

I wish I could opt out but Im also trying to Imagine the absolute cluster when most Americans who opted out get to their 60s and 70s without a dime in savings.

Realistically we're not going to do anything until it's a crisis, but even if we were, we probably wouldn't actually let people opt out. We'd just convert it into a force savings program instead of a welfare program. People are effectively paying 11.68% of their wages for their entire life. If you purchase long term disability out of that, what's left would fund a decent retirement for the vast majority of people. Pair it with a means tested welfare program for the elderly to catch those few that don't get enough work in, and the vast majority of people would be better off. That's typically going to allow somebody to replace about 48% of their wages if they want the option to leave their savings to their heirs. Closer to 60% if they don't. That's assuming a 5% real return, which is worse than 60/40 portfolios have traditionally returned, and of course significantly worse than a 75/25 or 80/25 portfolio would historically perform.

But if you actually turned it into forced savings rather than a welfare program, you could possibly get support for going more like 15% instead of 10%. That would also have the impact of helping the runup in house prices, as people currently forego retirement savings to bid up housing to the extent of their disposable income.

 

[TilloDwg]

Because the elderly were the most impoverished group in America before it was instituted (along with Medicare). Life has gotten better in America for the elderly and pretty much everyone else since it was instituted. We don't want mass poverty among the elderly. Have a politician pitch your plan to the voters and see what happens. We live in a democracy. Voting matters.

There won't be any if its done away with properly and citizens are allowed to choose what they want to do with their money. How is life better by anyone not getting the most out of their retirement plan ? SS sucks, always has, always will. It has to because the government runs it. Also, that's the second time you've said we live in a democracy. We don't.

 

[TilloDwg]

I wish I could opt out but Im also trying to Imagine the absolute cluster when most Americans who opted out get to their 60s and 70s without a dime in savings.

 

[Podgy]

Yep, the Romans called it "bread and circus." I submit to you that NCAA football is a part of our modern day "bread and circus."

I like watching football. I like enjoying life and doing things that make me happy. The Roman Republic and Empire lasted 1000 years in Rome and then another thousand in Constantinople. I'll take that amount longevity from a society that had bread and circuses. The $40 trillion in debt is troubling. Maybe stop voting for presidents who don't care about increasing the national debt.