Lynch and Piron on recruiting and private school advantages

[sporthog_9er]

Private school advantage? Batavia's Piron, Mount Carmel's Lynch sound off as the IHSA debates changes

Mount Carmel coach Jordan Lynch and Batavia coach Dennis Piron discuss the private/public school issue in Illinois high school football.

chicago.suntimes.com

 

[MC_Caravan]

Go Caravan!

 

[mc140]

The real advantage is the never ending train of transfers.

 

[MC_Caravan]

This has probably been discussed already but if the privates and public’s split, could the privates start their own sanctioned oversight committee and split from the IHSA?

 

[4Afan]

This has probably been discussed already but if the privates and public’s split, could the privates start their own sanctioned oversight committee and split from the IHSA?

Won't ever happen so it doesn't matter.

Hypothetically though, no they couldn't because it wouldn't be sustainable in every sport. Everyone looks at this through the tunnel vision of football. I think that would cause privates to lose more students than it would gain.

 

[MC_Caravan]

Won't ever happen so it doesn't matter.

Hypothetically though, no they couldn't because it wouldn't be sustainable in every sport. Everyone looks at this through the tunnel vision of football. I think that would cause privates to lose more students than it would gain.

Well, wouldn’t it have to be for every sport? If it’s just for football then that’s actually funny. And just curious but why do you think it won’t happen? I’m genuinely curious people take on this.

 

[4Afan]

Well, wouldn’t it have to be for every sport? If it’s just for football then that’s actually funny. And just curious but why do you think it won’t happen? I’m genuinely curious people take on this.

You think if football turns up their nose to the IHSA and leaves that they'd allow other sports to stay? How does that look for schools outside of the CCL? Who does Ottawa Marquette get to play? What about downstate teams like SHG where there are far fewer teams? Are there enough football playing privates to have more than 2 classes?

Go listen to Edgy's most recent podcast. I enjoy a good debate on the topic, but he's absolutely right that it won't ever happen because it hasn't happened yet. There has been a divide between publics and privates for as long as the IHSA has been around so why has no public school ever proposed a separation or for those private schools who feel that they are mistreated why haven't they proposed a separation, it's been 50+ years?

Everyone's favorite DC from Antioch or keeping it related to this article, Piron could have submitted a proposal for separation at anytime so it could have potentially gone to a membership vote but it's never happened. Why not?

Will be very telling to see how good some of these teams are if the radius for athletes gets reduced, to say 15 miles in the future.

 

[Anon430504]

Years ago I talked to some guys from Joliet Catholic. They said in the old Illini 8 all the public schools would cry about Joliet Catholic(they were beat a handful of times) & Marian Catholic(they got beat a bit more than the Toppers) wiping them out but those same schools had no issue wiping Joliet Catholic & Marian Catholic in other sports

 

[MC_Caravan]

You think if football turns up their nose to the IHSA and leaves that they'd allow other sports to stay? How does that look for schools outside of the CCL? Who does Ottawa Marquette get to play? What about downstate teams like SHG where there are far fewer teams? Are there enough football playing privates to have more than 2 classes?

Go listen to Edgy's most recent podcast. I enjoy a good debate on the topic, but he's absolutely right that it won't ever happen because it hasn't happened yet. There has been a divide between publics and privates for as long as the IHSA has been around so why has no public school ever proposed a separation or for those private schools who feel that they are mistreated why haven't they proposed a separation, it's been 50+ years?

Everyone's favorite DC from Antioch or keeping it related to this article, Piron could have submitted a proposal for separation at anytime so it could have potentially gone to a membership vote but it's never happened. Why not?

Will be very telling to see how good some of these teams are if the radius for athletes gets reduced, to say 15 miles in the future.

I can see that going to court, I personally don’t see the radius ever changing. And if it did I’m sure schools like Antioch won’t be getting any better but appreciate your take and wish your team well.

 

[McCaravan]

I spoke my peace on this over the past two weeks. I'm spent! . Bring on the season and we'll save this for December.

 

[mc140]

Well, wouldn’t it have to be for every sport? If it’s just for football then that’s actually funny. And just curious but why do you think it won’t happen? I’m genuinely curious people take on this.

They cant even agree on having more than 4 teams in a football conference without teams threatening to leave,.

 

[4Afan]

I can see that going to court, I personally don’t see the radius ever changing. And if it did I’m sure schools like Antioch won’t be getting any better but appreciate your take and wish your team well.

Your first thought that they would take them to court to get their way is beyond problematic.

You may be in for a surprise when it comes to the radius.

 

[johnndoe]

You know, any radius rule, existing or new, really is difficult to apply in a one-size-fits-all manner. Beyond the counter-point of water body inclusions in the defined area, other considerations exist. Population-thin tracts of land including forest preserves, expansive rail & truck hubs, the O-Hare footprint, huge swaths of highways & their interchanges, to name a few, are hard to ignore and seem difficult to fairly balance.

 

[PowerI66]

As silly as I find the reduction in radius, having your counter argument be that part of your radius is a lake is nonsense when the rest is the densely populated city and suburbs.

 

[LWN_Pheonix]

To throw my hat into ten argument

iMO you either walk to school or ride a Segway

they need to ride these catholic schools from their parking lots other than what is needed by the teachers!!!
It will keep them honest

 

[SiuCubFan8]

As silly as I find the reduction in radius, having your counter argument be that part of your radius is a lake is nonsense when the rest is the densely populated city and suburbs.

I agree with his point that the 30 mile radius rule is not equal for all those it applies to but that wasn't the point of its implementation.

 

[ClownBaby]

It'S hilarious that Lynch brings up having a kid from North Aurora which is 40 miles from MC and clearly outside the 30 mile radius.

 

[Icecreambus]

Just let public schools openly recruit and solve this problem.

For Lynch to say “we can’t recruit the lake” is such an ingenuous, douchebag thing to say. He has an enormous radius to draw from compared to SHG.

Oh, they wake up at 5:30 to lift 3 times a week? Big whoop. The draw is the tradition, resources and access to next level opportunities as a result of the aforementioned advantages.

Mt. Carmel has built the premiere program in Illinois. To act like they are overcoming anything is a master class in cognitive dissonance.

Just be honest and be like the Globo-Gym you are. We are better than you and we know it. The honesty about your situation would be refreshing. Mt. Carmel overcomes no adversity and that’s okay. Just say it.

 

[Still Missing34]

It hilarious that Lynch brings up having a kid from North Aurora which is 40 miles from MC and clearly outside the 30 mile radius.

35 Miles straight line distance from Village Hall.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

NM

 

[SiuCubFan8]

35 Miles straight line distance from Village Hall.

Hmm, AI seemed to lie to me. I had it as 37.5 miles is the absolute closest. I am not up to speed on my North Aurora boundaries.

 

[Still Missing34]

Hmm, AI seemed to lie to me. I had it as 37.5 miles is the absolute closest. I am not up to speed on my North Aurora boundaries.

Yeah, but I'm finding no area of NA that is 30 miles from Mt. Carmel. That being said, he probably lives on the East side of Aurora, nobody claims that.

 

[ClownBaby]

Hmm, AI seemed to lie to me. I had it as 37.5 miles is the absolute closest. I am not up to speed on my North Aurora boundaries.

Yep and the Village hall is on the east boundry

 

[MC_Caravan]

Your first thought that they would take them to court to get their way is beyond problematic.

You may be in for a surprise when it comes to the radius.

What’s problematic is the state making specific education difficult in a free country

 

[SiuCubFan8]

What’s problematic is the state making specific education difficult in a free country

What does the state have to do with IHSA rules?

 

[ClownBaby]

What does the state have to do with IHSA rules?

It’s a private organization with rules dictated by the membership any school is free to leave and do their own thing not sure why people can’t understand this.

 

[4Afan]

What’s problematic is the state making specific education difficult in a free country

Can we also stop pretending this has anything to do with education?

 

[MustangFB]

I'm no mathematician but Schaumburg,Winfield,Lisle, and Bolingbrook might be a tad outside
the lines.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I'm no mathematician but Schaumburg,Winfield,Lisle, and Bolingbrook might be a tad outside
the lines.

They can be inside the radius as well.

 

[ejande]

I'd like to call out what I think is an error from the article. It says private schools haven't been as dominate in basketball. While the privates have not been as good as they are in football, the privates have been doing much better in basketball than they did in the past. Privates had typically done well in football and have improved some now. Privates had won 1 state title in the largest class of basketball until Benet won in '25. Last year you had 3 of the final 4 being privates. This is a huge improvement.

I think privates are doing better than they use to in a wide range of sports (baseball, soccer, girls sports, you name it). Several of these schools have invested heavily in facilities (Marist, Benet, Larry, Iggy, etc.). This improvement in sports has come at the same time that enrollments have been going down.

I suspect a lot of the catholic schools have struggled with enrollment due to people generally being less religious and publics being at least as good academically. They seem to be prioritizing sports to boost enrollment and it seems to be working.

Thoughts? Does anyone have any idea what type of financial assistance some of these athletes get?

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I'd like to call out what I think is an error from the article. It says private schools haven't been as dominate in basketball. While the privates have not been as good as they are in football, the privates have been doing much better in basketball than they did in the past. Privates had typically done well in football and have improved some now. Privates had won 1 state title in the largest class of basketball until Benet won in '25. Last year you had 3 of the final 4 being privates. This is a huge improvement.

I think privates are doing better than they use to in a wide range of sports (baseball, soccer, girls sports, you name it). Several of these schools have invested heavily in facilities (Marist, Benet, Larry, Iggy, etc.). This improvement in sports has come at the same time that enrollments have been going down.

I suspect a lot of the catholic schools have struggled with enrollment due to people generally being less religious and publics being at least as good academically. They seem to be prioritizing sports to boost enrollment and it seems to be working.

Thoughts? Does anyone have any idea what type of financial assistance some of these athletes get?

I think private schools are continuously trying to improve every facet of their school to increase enrollment or at least hold steady. Private schools compete with private schools for students as well as public, especially in the Chicagoland area. So when some start making improvements, whether it is academic buildings or sports related, other private schools take notice. For example, St. Francis has remodeled and updated both main wings of school over past two summers but that is not as exciting to talk about as JCA proposing a new football field.

 

[ramblinman reborn]

With very few exceptions, public schools have a monopoly on tuition-free education in their districts. Generally speaking, public high schools enroll anywhere from 90-100% of the high school aged students in their districts. As public schools, they are the default choice for families who do not choose to send their children to private schools.

Private schools, on the other hand, are neither monopolies nor default choices. They must compete in the educational marketplace with public school monopolies as well as with other private schools. There is every incentive for private schools to adapt to changing circumstances, to market themselves, and to be nimble, competitive, and different. To not do these things results in the tuition paying market choosing one of several other choices, including the default choice.

This whole radius thing is a huge crock of crap. Public schools can't enroll students from outside their districts (supposedly), so they want to impose similar limitations on private schools. Former Loyola HC John Hoerster, currently enjoying his eternal reward, used to live in Elmhurst and commute every day to Loyola Academy. His son attended York. But what if he had wanted to attend Loyola? If the eligibility radius had been 15 miles back then, John's son could not have participated in athletics at Loyola if he had attended there.

Private schools have proven that they will do what they have to do to survive and thrive. Those that don't have closed their doors or are on the way to closing them.

We have been told we may be in for a surprise when it comes to a radius. Perhaps so. If the current radius is reduced, do not be surprised if private schools do what they must to ensure their own survival.

Lastly, to claim that separation will never happen because it hasn't happened in 50 years is not a good reason in my opinion. To Edgy and others who think that there will not be separation, I encourage you to ask yourselves the question, "How much is too much?" Private schools cannot be expected to absorb hit after hit and not take action at some point. At some point, there will be a straw that breaks the camel's back.

Why stop at 15 miles? Make it freakin' 5 miles and save yourselves the whining when private schools again prove their ability to adapt! It can't happen soon enough for me.

Give me the NIPL!

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

Meanwhile massey has 1A LeWin as the favorite over 7A Benet tomorrow (by 14 points).

 

[Cross Bones]

Meanwhile massey has 1A LeWin as the favorite over 7A Benet tomorrow (by 14 points).

Ohhh thanks I didnt even consider adding the Massey/Maxpreps predictions to my class warfare thread. This should make it that much more interesting.

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

I'd like to call out what I think is an error from the article. It says private schools haven't been as dominate in basketball. While the privates have not been as good as they are in football, the privates have been doing much better in basketball than they did in the past.

I may be wrong but I think many private schools look at basketball as being a women's sport.

Many of these private schools main #1 mens sport in the winter is focused on wrestling

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I may be wrong but I think many private schools look at basketball as being a women's sport.

Many of these private schools main #1 mens sport in the winter is focused on wrestling

Huh???

 

[4Afan]

I may be wrong but I think many private schools look at basketball as being a women's sport.

Many of these private schools main #1 mens sport in the winter is focused on wrestling

You're wrong. Privates have won 9 basketball titles since 2020 and only 5 Wrestling. Prior to 2020 Montini was the only private that was consistently winning.

 

[CCLer]

I may be wrong but I think many private schools look at basketball as being a women's sport.

Many of these private schools main #1 mens sport in the winter is focused on wrestling

Huh???

I may be wrong but I think many private schools look at basketball as being a women's sport.

Many of these private schools main #1 mens sport in the winter is focused on wrestling

I get that it is happy hour, but what are you taking about?

 

[Wassup13_rivals219252]

You're wrong. Privates have won 9 basketball titles since 2020 and only 5 Wrestling. Prior to 2020 Montini was the only private that was consistently winning.

Which from the CCL won recent mens basketball titles?

Nuff said.

 

[4Afan]

With very few exceptions, public schools have a monopoly on tuition-free education in their districts. Generally speaking, public high schools enroll anywhere from 90-100% of the high school aged students in their districts. As public schools, they are the default choice for families who do not choose to send their children to private schools.

Private schools, on the other hand, are neither monopolies nor default choices. They must compete in the educational marketplace with public school monopolies as well as with other private schools. There is every incentive for private schools to adapt to changing circumstances, to market themselves, and to be nimble, competitive, and different. To not do these things results in the tuition paying market choosing one of several other choices, including the default choice.

This whole radius thing is a huge crock of crap. Public schools can't enroll students from outside their districts (supposedly), so they want to impose similar limitations on private schools. Former Loyola HC John Hoerster, currently enjoying his eternal reward, used to live in Elmhurst and commute every day to Loyola Academy. His son attended York. But what if he had wanted to attend Loyola? If the eligibility radius had been 15 miles back then, John's son could not have participated in athletics at Loyola if he had attended there.

Private schools have proven that they will do what they have to do to survive and thrive. Those that don't have closed their doors or are on the way to closing them.

We have been told we may be in for a surprise when it comes to a radius. Perhaps so. If the current radius is reduced, do not be surprised if private schools do what they must to ensure their own survival.

Lastly, to claim that separation will never happen because it hasn't happened in 50 years is not a good reason in my opinion. To Edgy and others who think that there will not be separation, I encourage you to ask yourselves the question, "How much is too much?" Private schools cannot be expected to absorb hit after hit and not take action at some point. At some point, there will be a straw that breaks the camel's back.

Why stop at 15 miles? Make it freakin' 5 miles and save yourselves the whining when private schools again prove their ability to adapt! It can't happen soon enough for me.

Give me the NIPL!

If I were a private school backer I would be more concerned that they need to rely so hard on athletes to keep the doors open.