AI is nothing more than a text predictor.

[WDDT]

I never commented on the value of AI taking multiple invoices and compiling the data. It's great it can do that for you. It's a menial, lower-level task. That's great. I'm sure it's highly valuable for that task. Enjoy.

You would be wrong less often if you didnt feel the need to jump into every situation like an insecure little b1tch.


Play better tomorrow.

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

It’s surprisingly good at debugging computer programs, offering suggestions on coding, and incorporating some of our business details into the code it writes.

it’s a hell of a lot more than Google on steroids.

there is a reason computer grads are finding it more difficult to get their first job. AI is making current programs a lot more efficient.

it’s going to wipe out millions of jobs regardless of your opinion.

So what you're saying is we need to destroy it...........or those running it.

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

So what you're saying is we need to destroy it...........or those running it.

Some entity somewhere in the world is not going to restrict AI at all.

I think it’s like the race towards the Atomic Bomb. You want to be first and the best.

I also think AI and robots is our only hope for cheap quality healthcare.

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

Some entity somewhere in the world is not going to restrict AI at all.

I think it’s like the race towards the Atomic Bomb. You want to be first and the best.

I also think AI and robots is our only hope for cheap quality healthcare.

Nah. It needs to be stopped. It's okay if you disagree/want to be wrong.

We won't hold that against you when the time comes....................

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

This thread is a comedy show by the AI fanboyz that are the first to scream hallucination when in reality, it’s just bad code producing bad results.
It’s ok, the one poster that said the remaining 10% is what matters even if AI can produce a 90% outcome. Now, that’s not true, AI is closer to about 60% on its best day after a series of iterations to get it there - but the point remains.

Curious what you do that you think AI can only do 60% of coding. There are numerous real world examples from my company alone that disprove this. You seem like you have an axe to grind with AI (which is fine...there are lots of reasons to be concerned from the labor market to energy usage, water supply, etc). But to say it does not work to the extent you think is not grounded in the reality of how most people in technology use it today.

 

[Rahskie]

Curious what you do that you think AI can only do 60% of coding. There are numerous real world examples from my company alone that disprove this. You seem like you have an axe to grind with AI (which is fine...there are lots of reasons to be concerned from the labor market to energy usage, water supply, etc). But to say it does not work to the extent you think is not grounded in the reality of how most people in technology use it today.

Agree Hawkeye....I have had 100% success as I don't know **** about code. Also folks should Try Claude (specifically Sonnet 5) for coding. It is BRILLIANT. I use Claude in a Cursor IDE (you can pick multiple agents to code with). I started coding with Copilot and that was a DISASTER.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Agree Hawkeye....I have had 100% success as I don't know **** about code. Also folks should Try Claude (specifically Sonnet 5) for coding. It is BRILLIANT. I use Claude in a Cursor IDE (you can pick multiple agents to code with). I started coding with Copilot and that was a DISASTER.

The Fable Model makes sonnet look like a kids toy (and sonnet 5 is a good model). It’s outstanding, but a bit pricey to say the least.

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

Curious what you do that you think AI can only do 60% of coding. There are numerous real world examples from my company alone that disprove this. You seem like you have an axe to grind with AI (which is fine...there are lots of reasons to be concerned from the labor market to energy usage, water supply, etc). But to say it does not work to the extent you think is not grounded in the reality of how most people in technology use it today.

You believe @TarponSpringsNole, a geriatric man, IS A WOMAN.

 

[tigres88]

Agree Hawkeye....I have had 100% success as I don't know **** about code. Also folks should Try Claude (specifically Sonnet 5) for coding. It is BRILLIANT. I use Claude in a Cursor IDE (you can pick multiple agents to code with). I started coding with Copilot and that was a DISASTER.

I have no beef with you @Rahskie, so no shade here fr, but if you don't know shi t about code you probably shouldn't talk confidently about it to someone who does. Again, not tryna be a dic k but, telling a developer that they should "Try Fable and not sonnet" is like trying to tell a College student to "try long division and not times tables."

You're literally not even speaking their language.

The Fable Model makes sonnet look like a kids toy (and sonnet 5 is a good model). It’s outstanding, but a bit pricey to say the least.

Yes, everyone in the space knows this. It doesn't negate the inherent limitations.

 

[WDDT]

I have no beef with you @Rahskie, so no shade here fr, but if you don't know shi t about code you probably shouldn't talk confidently about it to someone who does. Again, not tryna be a dic k but, telling a developer that they should "Try Fable and not sonnet" is like trying to tell a College student to "try long division and not times tables."

You're literally not even speaking their language.


Yes, everyone in the space knows this. It doesn't negate the inherent limitations.

You have strong "they took our jerbz!!!" Vibes.


The guy started the entirty of the conversation by giving a shout out to traveler for his initial suggestions months ago and since then....has been coding.

 

[tigres88]

You have strong "they took our jerbz!!!" Vibes.


The guy started the entirty of the conversation by giving a shout out to traveler for his initial suggestions months ago and since then....has been coding.

Have you read the thread at all? I literally work in saas companies and sell/demo generative AI all day, every day. I'm not an expert AT ALL in the dev sense, but I know just about everything about LLM's from a functionality sense and their success is tied to my performance as a manager of large enterprise accounts.

I ain't shi t at all, but I do know a lil about this space, as I work in it.

 

[WDDT]

Have you read the thread at all? I literally work in saas companies and sell/demo generative AI all day, every day. I'm not an expert AT ALL in the dev sense, but I know just about everything about LLM's from a functionality sense and their success is tied to my performance as a manager of large enterprise accounts.

I ain't shi t at all, but I do know a lil about this space, as I work in it.

Damn Im good.

Like I said, strong "they took our jerbz" vibes.


Rahskie has credited traveler immensely, to the point he said it changed his life.

 

[Meatball Sandwich]

Curious what you do that you think AI can only do 60% of coding. There are numerous real world examples from my company alone that disprove this. You seem like you have an axe to grind with AI (which is fine...there are lots of reasons to be concerned from the labor market to energy usage, water supply, etc). But to say it does not work to the extent you think is not grounded in the reality of how most people in technology use it today.

There is quite literally no AI model that can even write SQL unless the data has zero data quality or completeness constraints, let alone anything more complex. There is no real world example that enjoys those luxuries and if you think that it exists or that your company is that unicorn, I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

I have no beef with you @Rahskie, so no shade here fr, but if you don't know shi t about code you probably shouldn't talk confidently about it to someone who does. Again, not tryna be a dic k but, telling a developer that they should "Try Fable and not sonnet" is like trying to tell a College student to "try long division and not times tables."

You're literally not even speaking their language.


Yes, everyone in the space knows this. It doesn't negate the inherent limitations.

Or, @TarponSpringsNole IS a woman!

Crazyshit spouted by Evangelists.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

There is quite literally no AI model that can even write SQL unless the data has zero data quality or completeness constraints, let alone anything more complex. There is no real world example that enjoys those luxuries and if you think that it exists or that your company is that unicorn, I have a bridge to sell you.

There is a kernel of truth in your statement wrapped in an over-exaggeration.

Sure no LLM can process messy raw enterprises grade data perfectly on the first pass. How could it if data violates schema rules? But that is the same as people. No human ever perfectly handled data integrity issues on a first pass either. But AI can be prompted to handle messiness. It certainly can learn a schema. We have personally done that many times. AI can of course generate SQL, can instantiate a POSTGRES DB, can perform all normal data operations and today’s LLMs are absolutely good to enough to plan for and work through unclean data.

We have built recursive loops where the AI writes deterministic software to process a flow of data.The software reports back data that has exceptions. AI evaluates and updates the software to handle exceptions. I assure you this is very real and it works WAY more than 60% of the time. We are well above 90% territory.

Yes you can’t go from a single prompt to production grade process in those instances - you have to prototype, track data that hits the cutting room floor, etc. But humans have to wrestle with that too when not using AI. Does a human have to supervise this? Yes today, but it is supervision, not active coding and makes developers dramatically more efficient. Are we close to a world where orchestrated agents can manage even the human component? I would say within the next year we are there at the current pace of LLM development.

 

[SB_SB]

Agree Hawkeye....I have had 100% success as I don't know **** about code. Also folks should Try Claude (specifically Sonnet 5) for coding. It is BRILLIANT. I use Claude in a Cursor IDE (you can pick multiple agents to code with). I started coding with Copilot and that was a DISASTER.

Nothing personal but this is where I see the problem. For some reason AI gives people the false impression they'r experts. You claim you've never coded and yet you also claim you've had 100% success. I can see that you're pretty confident about it as well. The problem is, your criteria for determining success has a hole in it.

 

[SB_SB]

There is a kernel of truth in your statement wrapped in an over-exaggeration.

Sure no LLM can process messy raw enterprises grade data perfectly on the first pass. How could it if data violates schema rules? But that is the same as people. No human ever perfectly handled data integrity issues on a first pass either. But AI can be prompted to handle messiness. It certainly can learn a schema. We have personally done that many times. AI can of course generate SQL, can instantiate a POSTGRES DB, can perform all normal data operations and today’s LLMs are absolutely good to enough to plan for and work through unclean data.

We have built recursive loops where the AI writes deterministic software to process a flow of data.The software reports back data that has exceptions. AI evaluates and updates the software to handle exceptions. I assure you this is very real and it works WAY more than 60% of the time. We are well above 90% territory.

Yes you can’t go from a single prompt to production grade process in those instances - you have to prototype, track data that hits the cutting room floor, etc. But humans have to wrestle with that too when not using AI. Does a human have to supervise this? Yes today, but it is supervision, not active coding and makes developers dramatically more efficient. Are we close to a world where orchestrated agents can manage even the human component? I would say within the next year we are there at the current pace of LLM development.

There might be some startup companies that would be very interested but large companies dealing with Personal Data are going to always need individuals involved along the development cycle.

I think your tool will probably look and feel fantastic to certain people. Without knowing what the output from the tool looks like, it's hard to say for sure, but when it comes to implementing at the corporate level, or worldwide level, you're going to hit many road blocks.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

There might be some startup companies that would be very interested but large companies dealing with Personal Data are going to always need individuals involved along the development cycle.

I think your tool will probably look and feel fantastic to certain people. Without knowing what the output from the tool looks like, it's hard to say for sure, but when it comes to implementing at the corporate level, or worldwide level, you're going to hit many road blocks.

I certainly never intended to give the the impression no humans would be involved. In my first post in this thread I literally said humans are reviewing output today. But, I can see given the tenor of the thread how you could reach that impression (which again I did not intend).

Having said that directionally that is where the industry is heading, and while I think 90%+ of the human effort can be replaced the last bits are trickier. Its somewhat akin to the self-driving car problem where the edge cases can really blow you up. But edge case analysis is now heavily streamlined and semi-automated. We have already proven real-world experience where software written by the AI will phone home to the LLM when it encounters an edge case (data exceptions, etc). The LLM evaluates and updates the software and the edge case is eliminated. We have human supervision on this process today - but I think in about 1 year that will go away.

As for enterprise? This is not my first enterprise rodeo and you are right the hurdles in large corporate enterprises are high. We did not start targeting large enterprise - our first two clients are mid market size organizations. Large enterprise (e.g. fortune 1000 types) represent something between 50-60% of software spending in the US. That leaves a crazy large market that is attainable without nearly the hurdles it takes to win a large corporate account. Having run B2B enterprise-centric organizations that is probably 6-12 months away on our timeline. We are discussing POCs with a couple F500 orgs now, but it will take us many weeks to even get a contract for the POCs.

As for worldwide: actually that is one place we shine. I spent most of my career to this point working globally. So one of our first principles was to build our solution to honor data sovereignty first and foremost. It runs on prem, in a sovereign EU cloud, on our cloud, whereever a client wants. In our model the agent (and therefore the LLM) never sits in the actual production process flow. They side to the side writing deterministic software that sits in the production flow and reports back to the agent when it needs to be updated. The process works well for HIPAA data / financial transaction data and other use cases where data sovereignty/privacy are critical. One of our clients is in the healthcare space and deals with HIPAA routinely.

Finally, yes we have already hit many roadblocks and removed them. We will hit many more roadblocks. That is what startups face daily - its both infuriating and rewarding at the same time. Sometimes I wonder if I am crazy for loving this stuff.

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

Nah. It needs to be stopped. It's okay if you disagree/want to be wrong.

We won't hold that against you when the time comes....................

AI can’t be stopped because somewhere somebody won’t let it.

 

[Meatball Sandwich]

Directionally, the industry hasn’t produced anything of meaningful value from a software or code perspective since Dartmouth in the 1950s. It is no more advanced today than it was then in that regard. In fact, it performs worse but that’s disguised by the next point -

Accessibility, UI/UX have seen advances due to ever-improving hardware and firmware. Those two are truly impressive, but they’re hitting a wall because 1) the three metals that best conduce electricity are scarce and increasingly-expensive and 2) nobody wants a data center next door. Those metals aren’t going to magically appear without fighting wars, ahem, and data centers are increasingly difficult and political to build.

 

[alaskanseminole]

What are your thoughts, ChatGPT? Is this thread right about you?


Yeah — if you're referring to the “AI is nothing more than a text predictor” thread, I think the thread is partly right, but the conclusion is way too simplistic.

The strongest criticism is absolutely fair: I can sound confident while being wrong. One poster in the thread actually describes the sensible way to use ChatGPT: use it to research, organize, compare, and draft, but verify the important claims against the underlying sources. He specifically says he found issues even while using ChatGPT extensively.

Where I disagree is the implication that because I'm fundamentally predicting language, I'm therefore “just autocomplete.” That's like saying a calculator is “just manipulating electrical signals.” Technically true, but not particularly useful for describing what the system can actually do. I'm a reasoning/research tool that can be extremely useful, but I need to be checked—especially on politics, current events, statistics, medicine, law, etc.

So my honest answer is:
“ChatGPT is just a text predictor” is technically true but practically misleading. “ChatGPT is an infallible source of truth” is obviously false. The useful middle ground is: it's a powerful reasoning/research assistant that can also confidently screw things up. Verify the important stuff.”

 

[EvilMonkeyInTheCloset]

AI can’t be stopped because somewhere somebody won’t let it.

Well then in that case.....

 

[SB_SB]

I certainly never intended to give the the impression no humans would be involved. In my first post in this thread I literally said humans are reviewing output today. But, I can see given the tenor of the thread how you could reach that impression (which again I did not intend).

Having said that directionally that is where the industry is heading, and while I think 90%+ of the human effort can be replaced the last bits are trickier. Its somewhat akin to the self-driving car problem where the edge cases can really blow you up. But edge case analysis is now heavily streamlined and semi-automated. We have already proven real-world experience where software written by the AI will phone home to the LLM when it encounters an edge case (data exceptions, etc). The LLM evaluates and updates the software and the edge case is eliminated. We have human supervision on this process today - but I think in about 1 year that will go away.

As for enterprise? This is not my first enterprise rodeo and you are right the hurdles in large corporate enterprises are high. We did not start targeting large enterprise - our first two clients are mid market size organizations. Large enterprise (e.g. fortune 1000 types) represent something between 50-60% of software spending in the US. That leaves a crazy large market that is attainable without nearly the hurdles it takes to win a large corporate account. Having run B2B enterprise-centric organizations that is probably 6-12 months away on our timeline. We are discussing POCs with a couple F500 orgs now, but it will take us many weeks to even get a contract for the POCs.

As for worldwide: actually that is one place we shine. I spent most of my career to this point working globally. So one of our first principles was to build our solution to honor data sovereignty first and foremost. It runs on prem, in a sovereign EU cloud, on our cloud, whereever a client wants. In our model the agent (and therefore the LLM) never sits in the actual production process flow. They side to the side writing deterministic software that sits in the production flow and reports back to the agent when it needs to be updated. The process works well for HIPAA data / financial transaction data and other use cases where data sovereignty/privacy are critical. One of our clients is in the healthcare space and deals with HIPAA routinely.

Finally, yes we have already hit many roadblocks and removed them. We will hit many more roadblocks. That is what startups face daily - its both infuriating and rewarding at the same time. Sometimes I wonder if I am crazy for loving this stuff.

Here's what you said in your previous post:

"Does a human have to supervise this? Yes today, but it is supervision, not active coding and makes developers dramatically more efficient. Are we close to a world where orchestrated agents can manage even the human component? I would say within the next year we are there at the current pace of LLM development."

You specifically said "Yes, today" and implied that in a year the agents will do the human part. To me that sounds like no human supervision.

I don't think in my line of business (FinTech) that we're going to be seeing management allow an AI agent to evaluate an issue, update the software, test it, and then install it. You might be able to actually do some of that, but that doesn't mean it's going to be allowed based on security and other regulations. We'll see.

I'm curious, does you IDE (lack of a better term) have an application framework it uses under the covers, such as Spring? Or can you use any language and it creates a complete new application where the prompt has to define everything such as logging, threading, etc?

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Here's what you said in your previous post:

"Does a human have to supervise this? Yes today, but it is supervision, not active coding and makes developers dramatically more efficient. Are we close to a world where orchestrated agents can manage even the human component? I would say within the next year we are there at the current pace of LLM development."

You specifically said "Yes, today" and implied that in a year the agents will do the human part. To me that sounds like no human supervision.

I don't think in my line of business (FinTech) that we're going to be seeing management allow an AI agent to evaluate an issue, update the software, test it, and then install it. You might be able to actually do some of that, but that doesn't mean it's going to be allowed based on security and other regulations. We'll see.

I'm curious, does you IDE (lack of a better term) have an application framework it uses under the covers, such as Spring? Or can you use any language and it creates a complete new application where the prompt has to define everything such as logging, threading, etc?

A year for humans out of the loop may be optimistic (or pessimistic depending on point of view on AI). I tend to be a bit optimistic in timelines. I do think 5 years is conservative though.

Technically our solution can use whatever language / application frameworks is preferred by a client - at least all the major ones, because ultimately the LLM is writing the code and knows all of them. The agent invokes a sandbox on a bare metal Linux box (which can be on prem/their cloud/our cloud). Code is written in this sandbox and we use a web interface to show/review progress and often prototypes for non developers. For devs we have a bridge via git /MCP so they can review in their own preferred tool. For web apps we try to steer people towards web assembly for a variety of reasons, but we don’t force that in any way. Once apps ready the agent deploys to prod with a simple prompt.

The agents are proprietary with some cool secret sauce under the hood - the agent provides LLM a bunch of context to do things user hasn’t prompted like logging/dev ops stuff/etc. We have invested an enormous effort into agentic durability and LLM efficiency/context for long running coding efforts and almost (but not quite) eliminated the need for dev ops. No kubernetes/docker to be found.

Don’t get me wrong this thing is an Angel/seed stage venture at the moment with lots of holes to fill. So while I am proud of what we have to date we are a long ways from this thing being a force. Still there is a ton of promise in the initial offering we are commercializing now.

 

[NJPSU]

It's wrong repeatedly. When grilled on why it is so bad at giving correct info, it admits that it is nothing more than a text predictor that will act confident even when giving wrong info. It admits that you shouldn't take It's answers seriously and always fact check yourself if important. Anyone else grilled it? Intelligence shouldn't even be in It's name.

I find it will give wrong information and when you question it will flip flop and give a completely different answer. It wants to agree with you more than it wants to be correct.

 

[Towlie]

I find it will give wrong information and when you question it will flip flop and give a completely different answer. It wants to agree with you more than it wants to be correct.

If you grill it, it will tell you that it makes up information and is programmed to sound confident about it.

 

[SB_SB]

A year for humans out of the loop may be optimistic (or pessimistic depending on point of view on AI). I tend to be a bit optimistic in timelines. I do think 5 years is conservative though.

Technically our solution can use whatever language / application frameworks is preferred by a client - at least all the major ones, because ultimately the LLM is writing the code and knows all of them. The agent invokes a sandbox on a bare metal Linux box (which can be on prem/their cloud/our cloud). Code is written in this sandbox and we use a web interface to show/review progress and often prototypes for non developers. For devs we have a bridge via git /MCP so they can review in their own preferred tool. For web apps we try to steer people towards web assembly for a variety of reasons, but we don’t force that in any way. Once apps ready the agent deploys to prod with a simple prompt.

The agents are proprietary with some cool secret sauce under the hood - the agent provides LLM a bunch of context to do things user hasn’t prompted like logging/dev ops stuff/etc. We have invested an enormous effort into agentic durability and LLM efficiency/context for long running coding efforts and almost (but not quite) eliminated the need for dev ops. No kubernetes/docker to be found.

Don’t get me wrong this thing is an Angel/seed stage venture at the moment with lots of holes to fill. So while I am proud of what we have to date we are a long ways from this thing being a force. Still there is a ton of promise in the initial offering we are commercializing now.

To start with, I'm obviously no expert and my opinion doesn't mean much (we're just on a message board). If I happened to be critical, don't assume I'm part of the other "team". Much like just because you're against trump, it doesn't mean you support the DSA (or the other way around)

I believe I get what you're trying to do, You're doing a lot more than just creating a development environment, you're creating a development platform. My guess is you're not eliminating dev ops and docker, your platform will just have its own version/implementation. That's a big nut to crack and a bigger nut to sell to companies, especially companies that have large older applications.

I like what you're trying to do and time will tell whether it's a viable large scale solution. I think senior management might love it but implementing it could difficult. Your view of how to use the platform might be different than how companies want to use it.

 

[Rahskie]

I have no beef with you @Rahskie, so no shade here fr, but if you don't know shi t about code you probably shouldn't talk confidently about it to someone who does. Again, not tryna be a dic k but, telling a developer that they should "Try Fable and not sonnet" is like trying to tell a College student to "try long division and not times tables."

You're literally not even speaking their language.


Yes, everyone in the space knows this. It doesn't negate the inherent limitations.

I am such a rookie that I don't even know what Fable is, so not sure where you got that I told people to "Try Fable and not sonnet".

I am also such a rookie that I have to rely on AI to do all my coding, so I would agree that I "don't know **** about code". So I think we are on the same page?
I am also having a BLAST building apps...the code may suck (I have no clue), but I have written two apps that solved major challenges I was having with not having the apps.

 

[Meatball Sandwich]

To start with, I'm obviously no expert and my opinion doesn't mean much (we're just on a message board). If I happened to be critical, don't assume I'm part of the other "team". Much like just because you're against trump, it doesn't mean you support the DSA (or the other way around)

I believe I get what you're trying to do, You're doing a lot more than just creating a development environment, you're creating a development platform. My guess is you're not eliminating dev ops and docker, your platform will just have its own version/implementation. That's a big nut to crack and a bigger nut to sell to companies, especially companies that have large older applications.

I like what you're trying to do and time will tell whether it's a viable large scale solution. I think senior management might love it but implementing it could difficult. Your view of how to use the platform might be different than how companies want to use it.

I don’t know why you’re giving him the benefit of the doubt here, he’s selling snake oil and promising everything to everyone. He’s just another AI grifter

 

[Rahskie]

Nothing personal but this is where I see the problem. For some reason AI gives people the false impression they'r experts. You claim you've never coded and yet you also claim you've had 100% success. I can see that you're pretty confident about it as well. The problem is, your criteria for determining success has a hole in it.

Well, I 100% created an app that replaced my 2400 line book library spreadsheet.....big whoopty doo on that as that is just database replication.
But it also automatically discovers new books in the 75 unfinished series I have in my Library. I will agree that it is not 100% accurate doing that, but it sure as hell beats me having to search Kindle Unimited or Google to find when new books come out in a series. It would literally take me about an hour to do that manually, now I just click a button.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

To start with, I'm obviously no expert and my opinion doesn't mean much (we're just on a message board). If I happened to be critical, don't assume I'm part of the other "team". Much like just because you're against trump, it doesn't mean you support the DSA (or the other way around)

I believe I get what you're trying to do, You're doing a lot more than just creating a development environment, you're creating a development platform. My guess is you're not eliminating dev ops and docker, your platform will just have its own version/implementation. That's a big nut to crack and a bigger nut to sell to companies, especially companies that have large older applications.

I like what you're trying to do and time will tell whether it's a viable large scale solution. I think senior management might love it but implementing it could difficult. Your view of how to use the platform might be different than how companies want to use it.

Yeah I don’t take it as criticism, more as genuine interest and for what it’s worth I love people asking and challenging my thinking because it is how we all learn and grow. If I come across as defensive that is not intentional…I’m just passionate about what we are doing.

For what it’s worth the dev ops stuff is actually done and live. Technically that was the first dev work we did because the original genesis of the project was a simple experiment to see if we could move openclaw agents to the cloud without a lot of messing with containers. Once we figured that out we decided openclaw agents suck and built our own. Then we scaled out from there.

There is one competitor that is reasonably close to what we do (Cloudflare Think) but we can deploy anywhere cloudflare only deploys to their cloud - for obvious commercial reasons.

 

[SB_SB]

I don’t know why you’re giving him the benefit of the doubt here, he’s selling snake oil and promising everything to everyone. He’s just another AI grifter

I've learned through time that there's good and bad to everything. On AI, I'm going to take a wait and see. I use AI for coding but not to the extent of what's being talked about (at all). I don't really need AI to install new code and really don't want it to. In my environment there's a lot of processes/steps needed after coding and implemented into production.

Sometimes all you really need is snake oil in order to sell a product. So if this startup is able to make money off their platform, then I guess they'll be successful. The world is full of snake oil and there's a lot of rich people from it. I just wish I had some snake oil to sell.

 

[SB_SB]

Well, I 100% created an app that replaced my 2400 line book library spreadsheet.....big whoopty doo on that as that is just database replication.
But it also automatically discovers new books in the 75 unfinished series I have in my Library. I will agree that it is not 100% accurate doing that, but it sure as hell beats me having to search Kindle Unimited or Google to find when new books come out in a series. It would literally take me about an hour to do that manually, now I just click a button.

I'm not saying you didn't build an app. And that's great that it works for you, and may very well work for others. But when we start talking about building actual products, that's a different story. I'm on the dev side of things (working on communications), but I'm fully aware of the job the UX designers do for designing UI's and UX. Certainly you or I could instruct AI (or Figma Make) to build a nice looking UI screen. But what most people don't know is, the UX designers are making sure the fonts, colors, icons, etc are accessible for people with disabilities. They're doing much more than that, but that's just an example. You probably don't care about any of that for your app and probably never thought of it (just guessing). I'm just pointing out that there's more to having a product than just letting AI build it.

 

[Rahskie]

I'm not saying you didn't build an app. And that's great that it works for you, and may very well work for others. But when we start talking about building actual products, that's a different story. I'm on the dev side of things (working on communications), but I'm fully aware of the job the UX designers do for designing UI's and UX. Certainly you or I could instruct AI (or Figma Make) to build a nice looking UI screen. But what most people don't know is, the UX designers are making sure the fonts, colors, icons, etc are accessible for people with disabilities. They're doing much more than that, but that's just an example. You probably don't care about any of that for your app and probably never thought of it (just guessing). I'm just pointing out that there's more to having a product than just letting AI build it.

Oh no, UX is a big deal....and I tried Figma, but it is a freaking beast to use (10,000 knobs to turn to get what you want).

Figma AI is pretty cool but nowhere near as good as an expert would develop. I tried Figma and got a pretty crappy front page, but it was LOADS better than me trying to do it myself.