Democrats Propose National Unrealized Gain Wealth Tax - Ro Khana and Mark Cuban and Palmer Luckey Debate

[scotchtiger]

Government confiscation of assets owned by Americans - another way of saying wealth tax - just feels completely wrong.

Easy to paint the target on billionaires, but then it’s a slippery slope. The original federal income tax targeted the top ~1%. Now we all pay (well most of us). And many of us pay a shitload - wayyy more than originally devised.

This opens the door for asset confiscation beyond just billionaires. Democrats’ thirst for taxpayer dollars won’t stop there.

 

[Allornothing]

Government confiscation of assets owned by Americans - another way of saying wealth tax - just feels completely wrong.

Easy to paint the target on billionaires, but then it’s a slippery slope. The original federal income tax targeted the top ~1%. Now we all pay (well most of us). And many of us pay a shitload - wayyy more than originally devised.

This opens the door for asset confiscation beyond just billionaires. Democrats’ thirst for taxpayer dollars won’t stop there.

Now we all pay ("well most of us"). I quoted the part that was wrong in my mind. Almost, if not all of 50% of people in this country pay "0" tax. Roads, bridges, highways, schools. They pay nothing.

On top of not paying any taxes, they qualify for "Earned Income Credit". They didn't pay one cent in, yet they get money back.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

It should be an inheritance tax. Let people earn their money and spend their money while they are alive.

 

[scotchtiger]

It should be an inheritance tax. Let people earn their money and spend their money while they are alive.

We already have that - the estate tax.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

We already have that - the estate tax.

Not at the level we need. We need dramatically higher revenue - even under extreme budget cuts. That is the reality of our fiscal emergency.

Unfortunately the estate tax, as currently implemented, is a drop in the bucket.

 

[fatpiggy]

It should be an inheritance tax. Let people earn their money and spend their money while they are alive.

100% agree with this.

 

[fatpiggy]

Not at the level we need. We need dramatically higher revenue - even under extreme budget cuts. That is the reality of our fiscal emergency.

Unfortunately the estate tax, as currently implemented, is a drop in the bucket.

Estate tax is one of the most fair taxes in my mind.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Estate tax is one of the most fair taxes in my mind.

I hate taxes as much as anyone. I just recognize the necessity of some federal spending and that taxes are therefore required. To me the “you already taxed that money” reaction that some have on an estate tax is simplistic. Money gets taxed over and over again as it circulates and when you tax it as an estate tax you are only affecting people who honestly did not earn it.

Long way of saying it is more fair than any other tax I can imagine.

I would also eliminate virtually all income tax loopholes - many of which I currently take advantage of via my LLCs and income generating assets. I would flatten the tax bands with one progressive step from 0% (or very low tax rate) up to subsistence level income and then a flat income tax after that probably set around 22-25%.

It’s past time to pay up for our deficit spending.

 

[scotchtiger]

Not at the level we need. We need dramatically higher revenue - even under extreme budget cuts. That is the reality of our fiscal emergency.

Unfortunately the estate tax, as currently implemented, is a drop in the bucket.

Anything more severe on the estate tax is wrong IMO. Confiscating assets that people have spent a lifetime working for - and paying taxes on - is wrong. A central component of my savings and investment planning is leaving an inheritance for my children. I work very hard and plan very carefully for that. For the government to shift policy and take that from us would be a travesty.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Anything more severe on the estate tax is wrong IMO. Confiscating assets that people have spent a lifetime working for - and paying taxes on - is wrong. A central component of my savings and investment planning is leaving an inheritance for my children. I work very hard and plan very carefully for that. For the government to shift policy and take that from us would be a travesty.

That argument would hold water for me if you and I weren’t currently paying far less tax than is necessary to be fiscally sound. The math on spending cuts alone does most work. We must increase tax revenues - and not by a little bit either. So it has to come from somewhere. It is fair to say we both don’t deserve the money we have because our current lower tax rates are literally us taking a loan from our children.

So while it sucks this sure as sh*t seems more fair than taxing income more. You worked for that money and my way you get to enjoy it while you are alive. Your descendants did not work for that money. My way honors the American dream more than any other method I can come up with. Your kids can work hard too and get their own money to enjoy. That seems WAY more fair to me than higher marginal income tax rates - which is the next best alternative.

 

[Rahskie]

That argument would hold water for me if you and I weren’t currently paying far less tax than is necessary to be fiscally sound. The math on spending cuts alone does most work. We must increase tax revenues - and not by a little bit either. So it has to come from somewhere. It is fair to say we both don’t deserve the money we have because our current lower tax rates are literally us taking a loan from our children.

So while it sucks this sure as sh*t seems more fair than taxing income more. You worked for that money and my way you get to enjoy it while you are alive. Your descendants did not work for that money. My way honors the American dream more than any other method I can come up with. Your kids can work hard too and get their own money to enjoy. That seems WAY more fair to me than higher marginal income tax rates - which is the next best alternative.

I see both sides of this coin for sure, but we float $billions already to people that are not going to "work hard too and get their own money to enjoy". Sooooo, we set our kids back to square one (I know this is a little dramatic) and say "work hard too and get your own money", while millions just don't. I am planning to leave my duaghter a nice chunk of change.....so maybe she doesn't have to start at square one. That to me would be my preference, but I definitely see the rationale you are coming with.

 

[DailyBuck7]

It should be an inheritance tax. Let people earn their money and spend their money while they are alive.

I think the inheritance tax is a bit too low. I think there's a 15 million floor before it kicks in. A tax somewhere in the range of 15 to 25% is okay by me. Maybe a 5 million floor. I think if it is not confiscatory, it is one of the fairest taxes there is. In most instances, the recipients haven't earned the money.

 

[OnlyTheObscure]

I see both sides of this coin for sure, but we float $billions already to people that are not going to "work hard too and get their own money to enjoy". Sooooo, we set our kids back to square one (I know this is a little dramatic) and say "work hard too and get your own money", while millions just don't. I am planning to leave my duaghter a nice chunk of change.....so maybe she doesn't have to start at square one. That to me would be my preference, but I definitely see the rationale you are coming with.

If you live until you’re 90 your daughter would likely be in her 60’s. That’s a little late to be “starting”.

 

[Tom Paris]

Government confiscation of assets owned by Americans - another way of saying wealth tax - just feels completely wrong.

Easy to paint the target on billionaires, but then it’s a slippery slope. The original federal income tax targeted the top ~1%. Now we all pay (well most of us). And many of us pay a shitload - wayyy more than originally devised.

This opens the door for asset confiscation beyond just billionaires. Democrats’ thirst for taxpayer dollars won’t stop there.

You sound like Ted Cruz scaring Republicans by saying the 87,000 IRS agents were coming for us. The democrats want to get the billions hidden by tax cheating uber-wealthy. Not to mention lets end their tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for these corporations.

 

[baltimorened]

You sound like Ted Cruz scaring Republicans by saying the 87,000 IRS agents were coming for us. The democrats want to get the billions hidden by tax cheating uber-wealthy. Not to mention lets end their tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for these corporations.

Tom you often refer to tax cheating by the Uber wealthy..you have any examples where someone of the Uber (what is that amount anyway) wealthy have cheated on their taxes?

A lot of us are all for ending tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for corporations....which would you eliminate.

And at what revenue level for corporations would you start at because, as you know, the local real estate agent might well operate as a corporation the same as general motors...

 

[Tenacious E_rivals41982]

That argument would hold water for me if you and I weren’t currently paying far less tax than is necessary to be fiscally sound. The math on spending cuts alone does most work. We must increase tax revenues - and not by a little bit either. So it has to come from somewhere. It is fair to say we both don’t deserve the money we have because our current lower tax rates are literally us taking a loan from our children.

So while it sucks this sure as sh*t seems more fair than taxing income more. You worked for that money and my way you get to enjoy it while you are alive. Your descendants did not work for that money. My way honors the American dream more than any other method I can come up with. Your kids can work hard too and get their own money to enjoy. That seems WAY more fair to me than higher marginal income tax rates - which is the next best alternative.

If our rates are too low and it is tantamount to a loan from future generations, how would you handle inherited traditional IRAs, if income tax goes up so it is not such a loan. The heir pays income tax on the deferred income and then pays inheritance tax to balance out said loan? Seems like a double whammy. Either way, I intend to gift to our kids as much as prudent during my lifetime, to help avoid that issue.

 

[Tenacious E_rivals41982]

I think the inheritance tax is a bit too low. I think there's a 15 million floor before it kicks in. A tax somewhere in the range of 15 to 25% is okay by me. Maybe a 5 million floor. I think if it is not confiscatory, it is one of the fairest taxes there is. In most instances, the recipients haven't earned the money.

The issue I have is that I have earned the money and paid taxes on it if converted to a Roth, or not otherwise in a retirement account. I don’t like a second tax on the same money before that money is spent.

 

[fsu1jreed]

What is it about Florida that citizens like? Of course the weather is good, but it’s good in California also.

You have people and businesses fleeing California, yet Democrats want their policies nationally?

Democrats need some leadership. They need ideas on how to help the people, other than raise ridiculous taxes like an unrealized gain tax.

4 years ago the kicked a bunch of voter rolls

 

[DailyBuck7]

The issue I have is that I have earned the money and paid taxes on it if converted to a Roth, or not otherwise in a retirement account. I don’t like a second tax on the same money before that money is spent.

I understand your point but there are balancing factors here. Also, if you are smart with your IRAs and particularly your Roth you have legally substantially reduced your taxes. I believe Peter thiel put one of his very good investments in his Roth and has something like a 10 billion dollar profit that is not taxable.

 

[scotchtiger]

You sound like Ted Cruz scaring Republicans by saying the 87,000 IRS agents were coming for us. The democrats want to get the billions hidden by tax cheating uber-wealthy. Not to mention let’s end their tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for these corporations.

Cool. So why did both Biden and Harris propose raising taxes on people making $400K? That’s not uber wealthy. Why do many on the left want to eliminate the SS cap, raising taxes on people making $185K?

You say these things, but the actual polices target millions of normal American families.

 

[Moogy]

Anything more severe on the estate tax is wrong IMO. Confiscating assets that people have spent a lifetime working for - and paying taxes on - is wrong. A central component of my savings and investment planning is leaving an inheritance for my children. I work very hard and plan very carefully for that. For the government to shift policy and take that from us would be a travesty.

So then you would be for the MTM of everything transferred after your death, and taxing that, correct? Given that your commentary included your desire to see things taxed that were already taxed ...

Regardless, "we planned for this and now that other thing is going to happen" shouldn't be a prohibition against change ... or virtually nothing would change. You work to make any change as painless as possible, of course ... but you rarely refuse to change simply because someone relied on the situation that existed prior.

 

[Moogy]

Cool. So why did both Biden and Harris propose raising taxes on people making $400K?

Because so many people want so many cool things ... but they want someone else to pay for it. Under 2% of households make $400K+, so they can rally most troops into supporting this. @Tom Paris , for example, wants us to pay for his arse. He deserves it.

That’s not uber wealthy.

This is true. Even in a backward place like SC, I'd imagine $400K per annum is just enough to live a fairly comfortable upper-middle-class lifestyle, but nothing exciting.

 

[Tenacious E_rivals41982]

Cool. So why did both Biden and Harris propose raising taxes on people making $400K? That’s not uber wealthy. Why do many on the left want to eliminate the SS cap, raising taxes on people making $185K?

You say these things, but the actual polices target millions of normal American families.

This is where I diverge from my friends on the left. I cannot say this is what Biden/harris proposed, but I am against what you say they did. I’m in that zone of earners. Have it better than most but I’m scrapping every day to accomplish my goals and take care of my family and in particular, setting up my daughter who was born a **** hand in life with CMV and deafness, and being implanted with cochlear implants at age 1. I am against raising the ss cap because I’m pretty sure by the time I can get it it will be means tested or gutted. I can accept one or the other but not both.

 

[Tom Paris]

Tom you often refer to tax cheating by the Uber wealthy..you have any examples where someone of the Uber (what is that amount anyway) wealthy have cheated on their taxes?

A lot of us are all for ending tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for corporations....which would you eliminate.

And at what revenue level for corporations would you start at because, as you know, the local real estate agent might well operate as a corporation the same as general motors...

That was easy…

Tax evasion by millionaires and billionaires tops $150 billion a year, says IRS chief

The IRS, with billions of dollars in new funding from Congress, has launched a sweeping crackdown on wealthy individuals, partnerships and large companies.

www.cnbc.com

 

[PapaGanoush]

Anything more severe on the estate tax is wrong IMO. Confiscating assets that people have spent a lifetime working for - and paying taxes on - is wrong. A central component of my savings and investment planning is leaving an inheritance for my children. I work very hard and plan very carefully for that. For the government to shift policy and take that from us would be a travesty.

Yes

 

[PapaGanoush]

You sound like Ted Cruz scaring Republicans by saying the 87,000 IRS agents were coming for us. The democrats want to get the billions hidden by tax cheating uber-wealthy. Not to mention lets end their tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for these corporations.

Says the governmental dependent.

 

[baltimorened]

That was easy…

Tax evasion by millionaires and billionaires tops $150 billion a year, says IRS chief

The IRS, with billions of dollars in new funding from Congress, has launched a sweeping crackdown on wealthy individuals, partnerships and large companies.

www.cnbc.com

there is always some fudging on taxes..not just millionaires and billionaires....56Billion is not slouch money, but in a $7 trillion budget is like less than 1%. I concede that cheating is cheating, but this is a drop in the bucket on the basis of our tax revenue and expenditures. But you are right there is cheating.

Now do the tax breaks for corporations...you're on a roll

 

[fatpiggy]

Anything more severe on the estate tax is wrong IMO. Confiscating assets that people have spent a lifetime working for - and paying taxes on - is wrong. A central component of my savings and investment planning is leaving an inheritance for my children. I work very hard and plan very carefully for that. For the government to shift policy and take that from us would be a travesty.

I think the estate tax is the most fair tax. It’s not practical, but I would be for removing other taxes and instituting a very heavy estate tax.

1) if you want to give money to your boys while they are alive, go right ahead.

2) it’s great you want to leave your kids great wealth, but they didn’t earn it.

3) it’s not the worst idea to have everyone START in the same place. You end up where you should based on merit, not being a lucky sperm.

4) You use the capitalist system while you are alive, you will spend your money better than the government. Then when you die, you give the government their share for setting up the system in which you thrived.

I don’t want to hear taxes are confiscation. I’m talking about replacing other taxes, not in addition to. We have to pay taxes and income tax is just as much confiscation as an estate tax.


I’d be fine with something like 90% estate tax if other taxes were eliminated.

Seems fair to me. No one deserves wealth just for being born, everyone must participate in society.

 

[Rahskie]

I think the estate tax is the most fair tax. It’s not practical, but I would be for removing other taxes and instituting a very heavy estate tax.

1) if you want to give money to your boys while they are alive, go right ahead.

2) it’s great you want to leave your kids great wealth, but they didn’t earn it.

3) it’s not the worst idea to have everyone START in the same place. You end up where you should based on merit, not being a lucky sperm.

4) You use the capitalist system while you are alive, you will spend your money better than the government. Then when you die, you give the government their share for setting up the system in which you thrived.

I don’t want to hear taxes are confiscation. I’m talking about replacing other taxes, not in addition to. We have to pay taxes and income tax is just as much confiscation as an estate tax.


I’d be fine with something like 90% estate tax if other taxes were eliminated.

Seems fair to me. No one deserves wealth just for being born, everyone must participate in society.

I responded to this above and I will be honest that I struggle with my feelings on this.

On one hand, I am totally on-board with this. I read history and watch shows that highlight the. advantages of Noble birthrights and how having a certain "name" entitled people to a life of prosperity only because of who they are, not any real achievement.

On the other hand, one (not all, but one) of the reasons we need to raise more taxes is to prop up millions (??) who have chosen to be victims or chosen a life of laziness/dependency/irresponsibility. I know there are a TON of people who DO need help (the mentally ill are the number one category for this). But there are thousands of younger adults who spent sometimes spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on worthless college degrees and now are screaming about affordability. Then we have the criminal/illegals who are in general a drain on society.


People need help, that is a fact. But we spend close to $5T (capital T there) on entitlements already in this country. I came from nothing (living in a trailer, food stamps, alcoholism/drugs in the home etc.) and STRUGGLED to make my way...so did my brother. We overcame it all and we both are now in the target zone for higher taxes and sit squarely in the white oppressor group.

So bottom line, I would be for this if we also pushed for more accountability, laser focused on fraud and stopped being the world's police force. This to me would save hundreds of billions of dollars and make that $5T go a LOT further. Until then, I want my daughter and her children to have the proverbial "silver spoon" if possible.

 

[jimneffer]

I responded to this above and I will be honest that I struggle with my feelings on this.

On one hand, I am totally on-board with this. I read history and watch shows that highlight the. advantages of Noble birthrights and how having a certain "name" entitled people to a life of prosperity only because of who they are, not any real achievement.

On the other hand, one (not all, but one) of the reasons we need to raise more taxes is to prop up millions (??) who have chosen to be victims or chosen a life of laziness/dependency/irresponsibility. I know there are a TON of people who DO need help (the mentally ill are the number one category for this). But there are thousands of younger adults who spent sometimes spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on worthless college degrees and now are screaming about affordability. Then we have the criminal/illegals who are in general a drain on society.


People need help, that is a fact. But we spend close to $5T (capital T there) on entitlements already in this country. I came from nothing (living in a trailer, food stamps, alcoholism/drugs in the home etc.) and STRUGGLED to make my way...so did my brother. We overcame it all and we both are now in the target zone for higher taxes and sit squarely in the white oppressor group.

So bottom line, I would be for this if we also pushed for more accountability, laser focused on fraud and stopped being the world's police force. This to me would save hundreds of billions of dollars and make that $5T go a LOT further. Until then, I want my daughter and her children to have the proverbial "silver spoon" if possible.

the real drivers of our national debt: social security and medicare/medicaid

the things you're concerned about: college kids and illegal immigrants

not shocking why the debt continues to go unaddressed

 

[fatpiggy]

I responded to this above and I will be honest that I struggle with my feelings on this.

On one hand, I am totally on-board with this. I read history and watch shows that highlight the. advantages of Noble birthrights and how having a certain "name" entitled people to a life of prosperity only because of who they are, not any real achievement.

On the other hand, one (not all, but one) of the reasons we need to raise more taxes is to prop up millions (??) who have chosen to be victims or chosen a life of laziness/dependency/irresponsibility. I know there are a TON of people who DO need help (the mentally ill are the number one category for this). But there are thousands of younger adults who spent sometimes spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on worthless college degrees and now are screaming about affordability. Then we have the criminal/illegals who are in general a drain on society.


People need help, that is a fact. But we spend close to $5T (capital T there) on entitlements already in this country. I came from nothing (living in a trailer, food stamps, alcoholism/drugs in the home etc.) and STRUGGLED to make my way...so did my brother. We overcame it all and we both are now in the target zone for higher taxes and sit squarely in the white oppressor group.

So bottom line, I would be for this if we also pushed for more accountability, laser focused on fraud and stopped being the world's police force. This to me would save hundreds of billions of dollars and make that $5T go a LOT further. Until then, I want my daughter and her children to have the proverbial "silver spoon" if possible.

I agree and I plan to leave my children everything I have.

But I’m just thought experimenting “fair”.

It’s seems fair to me to pay a large tax when you are …… dead.


It doesn’t seem fair to me that some kids start way ahead of other for simply being born to the right people. That’s not good enough for me if we are talking about fair.

I like the Bill Gated and Warren Buffet strategy on this. You should be able to leave your children “enough money to do something, but not enough to do nothing.”

 

[Finance85]

That argument would hold water for me if you and I weren’t currently paying far less tax than is necessary to be fiscally sound. The math on spending cuts alone does most work. We must increase tax revenues - and not by a little bit either. So it has to come from somewhere. It is fair to say we both don’t deserve the money we have because our current lower tax rates are literally us taking a loan from our children.

So while it sucks this sure as sh*t seems more fair than taxing income more. You worked for that money and my way you get to enjoy it while you are alive. Your descendants did not work for that money. My way honors the American dream more than any other method I can come up with. Your kids can work hard too and get their own money to enjoy. That seems WAY more fair to me than higher marginal income tax rates - which is the next best alternative.

It would be fair to say that half of income earners don't pay their fair share because they contribute very little in income taxes. Let's let everyone feel the pain. Only then will people start voting for better stewards of their money. Also, let's end early retirement, and tighten up requirements for government assistance for those choosing not to work.

As far as my descendants not working for money I've earned, that's a really flawed argument. I worked for it, and I paid taxes on it. My accumulated wealth belongs to me, not the government. My savings and investments drive economic growth for the country.

You speak of fairness, but it's already unfair that high earners pay a very disproportionate share of their income to support the country. You sound like you have a little wealth envy.

 

[DailyBuck7]

You sound like Ted Cruz scaring Republicans by saying the 87,000 IRS agents were coming for us. The democrats want to get the billions hidden by tax cheating uber-wealthy. Not to mention lets end their tax breaks and taxpayer subsidies for these corporations.

Typical Democrat fascism. The IRS only asked for 25,000 agents and of course the federal government under the Democrats wanting to put their foot on the backs of American citizens and give jobs to their friends, took that opportunity to try to expand the government further.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

It would be fair to say that half of income earners don't pay their fair share because they contribute very little in income taxes. Let's let everyone feel the pain. Only then will people start voting for better stewards of their money. Also, let's end early retirement, and tighten up requirements for government assistance for those choosing not to work.

As far as my descendants not working for money I've earned, that's a really flawed argument. I worked for it, and I paid taxes on it. My accumulated wealth belongs to me, not the government. My savings and investments drive economic growth for the country.

You speak of fairness, but it's already unfair that high earners pay a very disproportionate share of their income to support the country. You sound like you have a little wealth envy.

I don’t have wealth envy whatsoever. I am 53 and semi-retired (I invest and incubate startups as a way to stay in the game). What I sound like is someone wrestling with a massive/existential debt problem staring our country in the face.

Fine you don’t like my version: how do you raise federal revenue? You cannot cut spending far enough to get to a balanced budget. Are you ok with higher income taxes? Because that seems a helluva lot less fair than inheritance tax. What about a national sales tax? You are smart enough to know that is a negative incentive to consumption - which slows the economy.

Every single dollar that circulates in our economy is taxed over and over again. Yes you paid income taxes on it. YOU paid taxes, your descendants did not pay squat. Why should money that takes effort be taxed, but money they get with NO effort is tax free? It isn’t your money once you die, you have no status in society at that point.

I think we should tax every dollar someone receives. Hell, if you get free money that should arguably be taxed higher than money you have to work for. But not for you I guess? I will put you down for 100% ok with trust fund kids paying less taxes than hardworking middle class Americans. I personally find it unfair (and my kids are trust beneficiaries), but you do you.

 

[WDDT]

I don’t have wealth envy whatsoever. I am 53 and semi-retired (I invest and incubate startups as a way to stay in the game). What I sound like is someone wrestling with a massive/existential debt problem staring our country in the face.

Fine you don’t like my version: how do you raise federal revenue? You cannot cut spending far enough to get to a balanced budget. Are you ok with higher income taxes? Because that seems a helluva lot less fair than inheritance tax. What about a national sales tax? You are smart enough to know that is a negative incentive to consumption - which slows the economy.

Every single dollar that circulates in our economy is taxed over and over again. Yes you paid income taxes on it. YOU paid taxes, your descendants did not pay squat. Why should money that takes effort be taxed, but money they get with NO effort is tax free? It isn’t your money once you die, you have no status in society at that point.

I think we should tax every dollar someone receives. Hell, if you get free money that should arguably be taxed higher than money you have to work for. But not for you I guess? I will put you down for 100% ok with trust fund kids paying less taxes than hardworking middle class Americans. I personally find it unfair (and my kids are trust beneficiaries), but you do you.

Here is the side of the coin believers dont want to touch.


What happens if the asset goes negative? The government going to start cutting people checks? No, they are not.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

Here is the side of the coin believers dont want to touch.


What happens if the asset goes negative? The government going to start cutting people checks? No, they are not.

I don’t follow. What asset are you referring to?

 

[baltimorened]

I responded to this above and I will be honest that I struggle with my feelings on this.

On one hand, I am totally on-board with this. I read history and watch shows that highlight the. advantages of Noble birthrights and how having a certain "name" entitled people to a life of prosperity only because of who they are, not any real achievement.

On the other hand, one (not all, but one) of the reasons we need to raise more taxes is to prop up millions (??) who have chosen to be victims or chosen a life of laziness/dependency/irresponsibility. I know there are a TON of people who DO need help (the mentally ill are the number one category for this). But there are thousands of younger adults who spent sometimes spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on worthless college degrees and now are screaming about affordability. Then we have the criminal/illegals who are in general a drain on society.


People need help, that is a fact. But we spend close to $5T (capital T there) on entitlements already in this country. I came from nothing (living in a trailer, food stamps, alcoholism/drugs in the home etc.) and STRUGGLED to make my way...so did my brother. We overcame it all and we both are now in the target zone for higher taxes and sit squarely in the white oppressor group.

So bottom line, I would be for this if we also pushed for more accountability, laser focused on fraud and stopped being the world's police force. This to me would save hundreds of billions of dollars and make that $5T go a LOT further. Until then, I want my daughter and her children to have the proverbial "silver spoon" if possible.

what we have now is reasonable...set an exemption limit and above that pay taxes. Now, we could debate if $15/30 million is too high. Parents should be able to leave something to their kids

 

[baltimorened]

I don’t have wealth envy whatsoever. I am 53 and semi-retired (I invest and incubate startups as a way to stay in the game). What I sound like is someone wrestling with a massive/existential debt problem staring our country in the face.

Fine you don’t like my version: how do you raise federal revenue? You cannot cut spending far enough to get to a balanced budget. Are you ok with higher income taxes? Because that seems a helluva lot less fair than inheritance tax. What about a national sales tax? You are smart enough to know that is a negative incentive to consumption - which slows the economy.

Every single dollar that circulates in our economy is taxed over and over again. Yes you paid income taxes on it. YOU paid taxes, your descendants did not pay squat. Why should money that takes effort be taxed, but money they get with NO effort is tax free? It isn’t your money once you die, you have no status in society at that point.

I think we should tax every dollar someone receives. Hell, if you get free money that should arguably be taxed higher than money you have to work for. But not for you I guess? I will put you down for 100% ok with trust fund kids paying less taxes than hardworking middle class Americans. I personally find it unfair (and my kids are trust beneficiaries), but you do you.

so, second parent dies and leaves a $500,000 home to her kids...in order to pay your tax they might have to sell the house, same with family farms..and other hard assets. I'm ok with an estate tax, but 40% on some set amount should be reasonable

 

[WDDT]

I don’t follow. What asset are you referring to?

Because it's structured as a minimum tax — you pay the greater of your regular tax or the 25% minimum tax on income-plus-unrealized-gains — accrued losses effectively mean the minimum tax simply doesn't apply that year. In other words, no, there's no cash refund check going out. If your assets lose value, you'd just fall back to owing your normal tax bill (or, under some versions, you'd carry the loss forward to offset gains in future years).
Congress.gov

That.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

so, second parent dies and leaves a $500,000 home to her kids...in order to pay your tax they might have to sell the house, same with family farms..and other hard assets. I'm ok with an estate tax, but 40% on some set amount should be reasonable

Ah, I have a solution for that under my concept.

You only tax realized gains. If the kids inherit the family farm, or the hardware store/restaurant/whatever they only pay tax on cash. Not on assets. Keep farming. Live in the house. Do whatever. If you don't sell the house or business you don't pay a tax on the asset (outside local property taxes).

BUT, when cash is realized I would tax everything at the cost basis for what the descendents paid. So if you inherit a farm you don't want to work and you sell you pay gains on the entire sale price. But if you don't sell, then no worries you don't pay the tax. Just on cash.

If you inherit equities you pay tax on the dividends and on any stock sales you make.

The one issue which I don't yet have a solution for (which is a big instrument that wealthy people do use) is how to control for loans people take out secured by those assets. That is a way to shelter income and assets from taxation...that would need to be addressed. Probably would need to regulate any of those types of loans somehow. That is a loophole to my method for sure.