The Lack of Coverage Allowed by Schiano is Wild

[Shelby65]

Don’t forget also that while it took an odd back door plan D approach to get him there, with the latest DC hire, Greg has finally turned over the keys on both sides of the ball - for better or worse. First time in either tenure. If Johansen ends up working out and Kirk sticks around, having to keep Greg along for the ride for a few years might not be awful (or at least, it would be a change from the past).

This year is a major hurdle, of course, which is entirely Greg’s fault in waiting until after the portal closed to hire his DC. But if we do get to 6-6 it’s not impossible that the defense could continue to take positive steps with another full offseason. But again - I see 6-6 as a pretty big long shot based on the lack of talent on the defensive roster.

C’mon man. You should know better. He’s been claiming he’s learned to not micromanage his coordinators before every season and never does. He can’t help it. It’s who he is 24/7/365. Do you think we’ll see punt returns this year ? Or do you think the FCs aren’t his rules ?

If he were Pinocchio his nose would be longer than the Ice The Kicker FG try via growing an inch every time he’s said he’s going to give his coordinators more control.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

C’mon man. You should know better. He’s been claiming he’s learned to not micromanage his coordinators before every season and never does. He can’t help it. It’s who he is 24/7/365. Do you think we’ll see punt returns this year ? Or do you think the FCs aren’t his rules ?

If he were Pinocchio his nose would be longer than the Ice The Kicker FG try via growing an inch every time he’s said he’s going to give his coordinators more control.

No - it’s different. The hire he made clearly wasn’t his first choice and we’ll never know what direction he truly wanted to go, but based on how things turned out he won’t be micromanaging this year’s defense. It’ll be up to Johansen to make something out of nothing. Won’t be easy.

Greg let Kirk run the offense last year for the most part. This year he’ll be the most removed from the x and o details on both sides as he’s ever been. The problem is the lack of defensive talent. Not sure that can be overcome nor am I even sure Johansen was cut out to coach this level. Lots of big open questions.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Don’t forget also that while it took an odd back door plan D approach to get him there, with the latest DC hire, Greg has finally turned over the keys on both sides of the ball - for better or worse. First time in either tenure. If Johansen ends up working out and Kirk sticks around, having to keep Greg along for the ride for a few years might not be awful (or at least, it would be a change from the past).

This year is a major hurdle, of course, which is entirely Greg’s fault in waiting until after the portal closed to hire his DC. But if we do get to 6-6 it’s not impossible that the defense could continue to take positive steps with another full offseason. But again - I see 6-6 as a pretty big long shot based on the lack of talent on the defensive roster.

You're way off base here, every coordinator has run their own show since 2.0 started. Some have succeeded, some failed and then Greg stepped in to relieve them of their responsibilities.

 

[Shelby65]

No - it’s different. The hire he made clearly wasn’t his first choice and we’ll never know what direction he truly wanted to go, but based on how things turned out he won’t be micromanaging this year’s defense. It’ll be up to Johansen to make something out of nothing. Won’t be easy.

Greg let Kirk run the offense last year for the most part. This year he’ll be the most removed from the x and o details on both sides as he’s ever been. The problem is the lack of defensive talent. Not sure that can be overcome nor am I even sure Johansen was cut out to coach this level. Lots of big open questions.

With all due respect, Shelby thinks you aren’t watching Rutgers football. Will ask again, is ST coordinator empowered to, and decides to FC every punt no matter where on the field or the game situation ? Or is that a Schiano rule ?

Further, if it’s a Schiano rule on that basic and n-1 opposite philosophy in the history of the sport, do you truly believe he gives up control of anything else? He probably even dictates the brand of gas the team buses run on. That’s who he is.

If you don’t understand that, would you be interested in buying my ice collection from the surface of Mercury ?

 

[PiscatawayMike]

 

[RUDivision]

Yes he’s retained at 4-8, three wins or less and a discussion could be had. 4-8 he gets another, 5-7 he gets another year or two, 6+ he’s here for the long haul.

Not questioning your opinion because clearly your closer to it then myself. That being said WHY? Is on field results don’t warrant it and his off the field bully tough guy routine has to be getting old

 

[kupuna133]

Perhaps I could’ve been more clear but I was referring to the 3 coaching change teams - meaning, just because they have a new coach doesn’t make those easy games because those teams are still loaded with talent.

On a separate but related note, I’m not sure how you can classify 3 games as gimmes for us considering we don’t even project to be favored in 3 total conference games.

Who said anything about conference games. 3 gimmies on schedule.

 

[Richie O]

Not questioning your opinion because clearly your closer to it then myself. That being said WHY? Is on field results don’t warrant it and his off the field bully tough guy routine has to be getting old

He had a down year at five wins after back to back seven win seasons, he’s earned some goodwill. Zinn and crew were very impressed with what he able to do with the money that they had previously, this is no longer an issue anymore since her people run the NIL stuff now. The plan is to continue to grow that department and give him more resources to see what he can do.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

Who said anything about conference games. 3 gimmies on schedule.

I guess you didn’t. Circling back it seems you carved out a total of 9 games from our schedule that your bucketing into that 3/3/3 and your saying 7-2 in those games should be a cake walk for us - yes? Nobody is arguing Howard or UMass so let’s call it as it is - a 5-2 cake walk mapping in a 1/3/3. Correct?

I was only pointing out that talent wise - the 3 teams with coaching changes still have significantly more talent on their rosters overall (especially on D - the size of the gap is entirely Greg’s fault but regardless - it’s there and just because these teams have new coaches does not make those easy games).

I’m not sure which game your bucketing with UMass / Howard, but we are currently only projected paper favorites in 2 of those 7 games your referencing and even those 2 games are close to pick em games. In terms of the big picture future from the view at the top, it’s in the best interest of the program for decisions to be forward looking. Simply put - whether Greg deserves to be retained another year based on his 2.0 resume to date will in all likelihood be irrelevant to the short term coaching decisions. 4-3 in the games your referencing would, in all likelihood, mean the new DC had a solid year one showing and Kirk held steady. That would give Kelly enough to sell in the short term quest to build our brand which is what will drive the decision.

 

[kupuna133]

I guess you didn’t. Circling back it seems you carved out a total of 9 games from our schedule that your bucketing into that 3/3/3 and your saying 7-2 in those games should be a cake walk for us - yes? Nobody is arguing Howard or UMass so let’s call it as it is - a 5-2 cake walk mapping in a 1/3/3. Correct?

I was only pointing out that talent wise - the 3 teams with coaching changes still have significantly more talent on their rosters overall (especially on D - the size of the gap is entirely Greg’s fault but regardless - it’s there and just because these teams have new coaches does not make those easy games).

I’m not sure which game your bucketing with UMass / Howard, but we are currently only projected paper favorites in 2 of those 7 games your referencing and even those 2 games are close to pick em games. In terms of the big picture future from the view at the top, it’s in the best interest of the program for decisions to be forward looking. Simply put - whether Greg deserves to be retained another year based on his 2.0 resume to date will in all likelihood be irrelevant to the short term coaching decisions. 4-3 in the games your referencing would, in all likelihood, mean the new DC had a solid year one showing and Kirk held steady. That would give Kelly enough to sell in the short term quest to build our brand which is what will drive the decision.

Why do you consistently get into your own head when you respond to my posts? I categorized the 9 games because those are the ones that fit into those “3” categories. A talking head actually pointed it out months ago. Didn’t say the 3 new coaches or 3 hot seats are guaranteed wins. I said they could be wins. And I am optimistic in 4 of the 6. I don’t see a significant talent difference on all 3 of the coaching changes. 2 yes. All 3 no.

 

[RU#1fan]

Was GS this tight-lipped in 1.0 era?

Schiano’s paranoia is totally laughable. Like the teams in the B1G are really worried about the strategy of Rutgers football this season. LMAO

 

[Caliknight]

Don’t forget also that while it took an odd back door plan D approach to get him there, with the latest DC hire, Greg has finally turned over the keys on both sides of the ball - for better or worse. First time in either tenure. If Johansen ends up working out and Kirk sticks around, having to keep Greg along for the ride for a few years might not be awful (or at least, it would be a change from the past).

This year is a major hurdle, of course, which is entirely Greg’s fault in waiting until after the portal closed to hire his DC. But if we do get to 6-6 it’s not impossible that the defense could continue to take positive steps with another full offseason. But again - I see 6-6 as a pretty big long shot based on the lack of talent on the defensive roster.

I don’t believe Schiano has turned the keys over to either of them.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

I don’t believe Schiano has turned the keys over to either of them.

We’ll see. I don’t think you make a hire like this one who was a sitting head coach that you have no previous connection to and allow them to hire all their own people if your planning to run everything. Seems unlikely - even for Greg.

 

[Caliknight]

He’s done it his entire career. Why change now? He said an interview the QB decision was one he would make with input from KC. Control freaks don’t relinquish control as they age. They do even more of it.

 

[jsol_05]

As I've said on The Round Table, people won't want to hear this, but I don't see a realistic (key word here) candidate out there that can do a better job than Schiano given what Rutgers has resources wise.

If GS is the best we can get with our resources we have a serious problem. It the same thing everybyear

 

[Bueller]

I don’t believe Schiano has turned the keys over to either of them.

Lol its funny how GS fronts that he's "turned things over" to coordinators. RUs offense has the same problem for years - monsters of the midfield and turkeys of the red zone.

 

[RUTGERS95]

No - it’s different. The hire he made clearly wasn’t his first choice and we’ll never know what direction he truly wanted to go, but based on how things turned out he won’t be micromanaging this year’s defense. It’ll be up to Johansen to make something out of nothing. Won’t be easy.

Greg let Kirk run the offense last year for the most part. This year he’ll be the most removed from the x and o details on both sides as he’s ever been. The problem is the lack of defensive talent. Not sure that can be overcome nor am I even sure Johansen was cut out to coach this level. Lots of big open questions.

you're not this naive, your posts prove it so whatever you're drinking or eating, stop

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

You're way off base here, every coordinator has run their own show since 2.0 started. Some have succeeded, some failed and then Greg stepped in to relieve them of their responsibilities.

He hired Rob Smith to carry out his orders. That’s what he did with his initial defensive hire of 2.0 too. Even with Joe he viewed that as kind of a mentoring relationship and the Joe earned his trust. At least that’s how it’s seemed to me.

Offense he’s controlled historically in a bit different way where he sought out OC’s in 1.0 that specifically valued protecting the ball. I think he’s been more passive and open with his hiring on the offensive side in 2.0. But this is the first time IMO where I expect he’ll do that on defense.

 

[RUGuitarMan1]

During his first stint Greg allowed high school coaches to attend practices during the fall camp. I went to a lot of practices. All I had to do was call an assistant AD and ask to come and he put me on a list. I showed up at the gate, showed ID and I was allowed to watch. This was true of any HS coach who wanted to come. GS also made tickets available to coaches. Each coach could get four tickets to any home game. They had a section dedicated to these free tickets. You had to give the names of the people using the tickets and they needed ID. You showed up at the will call window and they would hand you your ticket but you had to enter right there. It was pretty good.

I really attended practices so I could watch the position coaches. I learned a lot watching and listening to Kyle Flood during the group period. It was so quiet you could hear the dialogue between the coaches and players. There was an agreement that you would not post anything you saw or heard on message boards. GS had people monitoring the message boards. Probably still does. I knew coaches who posted stuff and they were removed from the list of coaches allowed to attend. I understand the reasoning. It was a good time. Stood on the field.

By far the most entertaining coach was Chris Demarest. He was a wild man, but the guy could coach.

The “entertaining” Chris Demarest was the DB coach who was fired because he slapped around his girlfriend in a NJ bar. He never recovered.

 

[kupuna133]

The “entertaining” Chris Demarest was the DB coach who was fired because he slapped around his girlfriend in a NJ bar. He never recovered.

Guy is/was an absolute toolbox. Met him multiple times. Neighbor in Red Bank and friend of my wife’s was dating him (after we his ru stint). Was db coach at Hawaii at the time. Steroids are a very bad thing.

 

[PSAL_Hoops]

you're not this naive, your posts prove it so whatever you're drinking or eating, stop

So you really think he let Johansen bring in an entire staff to micromanage every play behind the scenes? He’s made mistakes of all sorts, yes. But Greg is a CEO type - I.e. not this stupid. In the past, virtually every position hire had to have past connection to him. The new defensive staff is a 180 in this respect. That doesn’t mean it’ll work. The odds are majorly stacked against because the talent is absismal and Johansen is far from a guarantee to be ready for the step up regardless. But Johansen will be allowed to run what he wants for the most part on defense.and the chips will fall as they may.

 

[kupuna133]

So you really think he let Johansen bring in an entire staff to micromanage every play behind the scenes? He’s made mistakes of all sorts, yes. But Greg is a CEO type - I.e. not this stupid. In the past, virtually every position hire had to have past connection to him. The new defensive staff is a 180 in this respect. That doesn’t mean it’ll work. The odds are majorly stacked against because the talent is absismal and Johansen is far from a guarantee to be ready for the step up regardless. But Johansen will be allowed to run what he wants for the most part on defense.and the chips will fall as they may.

I’ll play devils advocate. So you think Johannsen who has no coaching experience, much less coordinating experience at this level will get free rein of the defense? Considering Greg has dictated scheme and calls with people with much better resumes. I would say there is zero chance Greg does not.
Hope im wrong. But there is a long standing track record.

 

[Shelby65]

It’s not about calling plays or coverages. He lets the coordinators do that much of the time. It’s that they are very restricted and micromanaged. Very simple and small playbook to use.

Analogy: a parent who claims to encourage his kid to pursue art but only allows him to use three crayons.

 

[NBKnight]

I’ll play devils advocate. So you think Johannsen who has no coaching experience, much less coordinating experience at this level will get free rein of the defense? Considering Greg has dictated scheme and calls with people with much better resumes. I would say there is zero chance Greg does not.
Hope im wrong. But there is a long standing track record.

It is clear Johansen is bringing in his scheme. If not why did Johansen hire a bunch of coaches who he had worked with? The STUD position is part of his scheme, that is a change.

 

[kupuna133]

It is clear Johansen is bringing in his scheme. If not why did Johansen hire a bunch of coaches who he had worked with? The STUD position is part of his scheme, that is a change.

We shall see. Bringing in your own people happens everywhere and in every profression. And wouldn’t get caught up in semantics. STUD is just a rush edge/LB. Think Toure role. It’s always existed in Schianos scheme. Just a different name. And being that Noonan is one of the only holdovers and is the STUD coach should be a sign that it’s only a name change versus a true “scheme” change.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

It is clear Johansen is bringing in his scheme. If not why did Johansen hire a bunch of coaches who he had worked with? The STUD position is part of his scheme, that is a change.

You are 100% correct, it will be Johansen's defense and play calling.

One a side note, the premium side had a great in-depth article on his defense as well as Kirk's offense. Definitely worth the read if you have a subscription.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

We shall see. Bringing in your own people happens everywhere and in every profression. And wouldn’t get caught up in semantics. STUD is just a rush edge/LB. Think Toure role. It’s always existed in Schianos scheme. Just a different name. And being that Noonan is one of the only holdovers and is the STUD coach should be a sign that it’s only a name change versus a true “scheme” change.

Sorry to burst your bubble but the STUD position is a safety.

 

[kupuna133]

Sorry to burst your bubble but the STUD position is a safety.

Yea no. It’s a hybrid DE/LB.
Yea Charlie Noonan is going to coach safeties. Hahahaaha
Should have sat this one out.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Yea no. It’s a hybrid DE/LB.
Yea Charlie Noonan is going to coach safeties. Hahahaaha
Should have sat this one out.

We've only been discussing this position on the Round Table since he was hired but yeah you know everything. Here's a snippet from a premium article on Johansen:

"That relationship matters schematically, not just personally. The 4-2-5 principles those two built together at Grand View, one simple key per defender, split-field coverage, using the “Stud” nickel and “Rover” weak safety as primary run fitters so the linebackers never have to two-gap, are the foundation everything in Johansen’s system grew out of."

@NBKnight was correct the whole time.

 

[Richie O]

Yea no. It’s a hybrid DE/LB.
Yea Charlie Noonan is going to coach safeties. Hahahaaha
Should have sat this one out.

Yeah the STUD position is just another name for a nickel. Noonan is coaching the room and it’s essentially a fifth DB.

 

[kupuna133]

Yeah the STUD position is just another name for a nickel. Noonan is coaching the room and it’s essentially a fifth DB.

News to me. Every other team that uses stud is a DE/LB that has pass rushing and coverage responsibility depending on alignmemt. If it’s such a key position group. Why would one of the 2 leftovers on staff be coaching this group. And a group he has zero experience. Makes no sense. We shall see.


In football, a stud is a hybrid defensive position—usually an outside linebacker or edge rusher—who combines the pass-rushing skills of a defensive end with the speed and pass-coverage abilities of a linebacker or defensive back

 

[kupuna133]

We've only been discussing this position on the Round Table since he was hired but yeah you know everything. Here's a snippet from a premium article on Johansen:

"That relationship matters schematically, not just personally. The 4-2-5 principles those two built together at Grand View, one simple key per defender, split-field coverage, using the “Stud” nickel and “Rover” weak safety as primary run fitters so the linebackers never have to two-gap, are the foundation everything in Johansen’s system grew out of."

@NBKnight was correct the whole time.

Apologies if true. But that’s unreal to have a a coach with zero experience in Johansens system coaching an entirely new position group. As well as STUD is an old term for LB/DE been used for 30+ years in multiple systems.

 

[Richie O]

News to me. Every other team that uses stud is a DE/LB that has pass rushing and coverage responsibility depending on alignmemt. If it’s such a key position group. Why would one of the 2 leftovers on staff be coaching this group. And a group he has zero experience. Makes no sense. We shall see.


In football, a stud is a hybrid defensive position—usually an outside linebacker or edge rusher—who combines the pass-rushing skills of a defensive end with the speed and pass-coverage abilities of a linebacker or defensive back

Coaches change position group names all the time, last year the nickels were the Stars, previously Ash called the edge rushers JACKs.

It’s not super crazy, under Johansen the stud is a physical hybrid defender than a traditional slot corner. It’s more of a hybrid safety / small linebacker.

Noonan having LB coaching experience helps here because he understands run fits, setting the edge, blitzing, etc. all keys to the position.

 

[kupuna133]

Coaches change position group names all the time, last year the nickels were the Stars, previously Ash called the edge rushers JACKs.

It’s not super crazy, under Johansen the stud is a physical hybrid defender than a traditional slot corner. It’s more of a hybrid safety / small linebacker.

Noonan having LB coaching experience helps here because he understands run fits, setting the edge, blitzing, etc. all keys to the position.

So you’ve seen his position group? It’s more Lb/safety than linebacker/de?

 

[Richie O]

So you’ve seen his position group? It’s more Lb/safety than linebacker/de?

Yes and it’s literally the nickel position. It’s a battle between Ofurie and Gilley, both bigger safeties.

 

[kupuna133]

Yes and it’s literally the nickel position. It’s a battle between Ofurie and Gilley, both bigger safeties.

Understood. So like you said run support, setting edge, pass rush and coverage responsibilities. Sounds a lot like hybrid LB like I said. And posted above. Just going with speed over Braun.

 

[Richie O]

Understood. So like you said run support, setting edge, pass rush and coverage responsibilities. Sounds a lot like hybrid LB like I said. And posted above. Just going with speed over Braun.

It’s a safety that can move up in the box from time to time. More often than not, he’s in coverage.

 

[-RUFAN4LIFE-]

Understood. So like you said run support, setting edge, pass rush and coverage responsibilities. Sounds a lot like hybrid LB like I said. And posted above. Just going with speed over Braun.

Think Flip Dixon, maybe Christian Izien type of safety.

 

[kupuna133]

Think Flip Dixon, maybe Christian Izien type of safety.

Yea more LB than CB. Hybrid lb.

Not a true nickel. Where you get more coverage on the field versus more run support.

 

[ScarletDave]

I’m confused where you guys expect to get this 4th win from. Besides UMass and Howard we will not be favored in any other game besides maybe MSU if they are also 2-9 going into that game. @ BC? We beat them by 1 point last time at their place on a miracle 10 minute drive by johnny football, and they beat us at home. @ Maryland, @ NW in their new stadium? Schiano doesnt have it in him. 3 wins is the max if we beat Maryland or BC on the road, or maybe MSU if we have the heart for it.

0 chance we beat Wisconsin in Camp Randall no matter how good they are. Schiano cant do it. Same for Nebraska, they are his new West Virginia. He cannot beat blue blood programs. 0-fer against Ohio State, Michigan, Penn State, Wisconsin, Nebraska, USC. He will never beat any of those teams, not mentally there when you fair catch every kick and don’t throw 1 screen pass or do a single end around or drag route all season. And we are running the 4-2-5 defense again this year so with 2 linebackers stuck in the middle get ready for us to get torched on the outside every single game again. Does Schiano get to stay if we go 3-9 with no wins between Howard and MSU Thanksgiving which is about all the games we’ll be favored in?