ICE plans to give officers gloves that can deliver painful electric shocks

[baltimorened]

I'm certain. I follow Adam Kinzinger. He's a former Republican Rep from Illinois and is very critical of MAGA, especially Trump. I know you like to pretend to be playing devils advocate. But if you did a little research and actually followed politics you would know your question was rather silly.

Don't follow kinzinger, so I'll accept your interpretation. I just think debate over another means to deescalate a situation without physical force makes sense...like I posted we were happy when police started using tasers - electric shock - as a means to limit guns...now we're upset that ICE might use a similar less lethal tactic....seems like phony outrage. I doubt, but admit I don't know for a fact that Ice agents using electric shock gloves is not comparable to communists using electric shock for compliance purposes....maybe I'm wrong. I've never been restricted by communists and experienced their shock treatment.

followed politics? I made my living in the political world, federal level US and internationally. I think I understand politics..Agreed you might not think so...by we're all entitled to our opinions.

 

[UrHuckleberry]

Don't follow kinzinger, so I'll accept your interpretation. I just think debate over another means to deescalate a situation without physical force makes sense...like I posted we were happy when police started using tasers - electric shock - as a means to limit guns...now we're upset that ICE might use a similar less lethal tactic....seems like phony outrage. I doubt, but admit I don't know for a fact that Ice agents using electric shock gloves is not comparable to communists using electric shock for compliance purposes....maybe I'm wrong. I've never been restricted by communists and experienced their shock treatment.

followed politics? I made my living in the political world, federal level US and internationally. I think I understand politics..Agreed you might not think so...by we're all entitled to our opinions.

I think my issue is they already have tasers. So this feels like just another toy they want, rather than paying for body cams that are desperately needed.

Body cams protect the ICE agents too from any he said she said, etc. Or they will, assuming they are in the right.

 

[jedhawk77]

Don't follow kinzinger, so I'll accept your interpretation. I just think debate over another means to deescalate a situation without physical force makes sense...like I posted we were happy when police started using tasers - electric shock - as a means to limit guns...now we're upset that ICE might use a similar less lethal tactic....seems like phony outrage. I doubt, but admit I don't know for a fact that Ice agents using electric shock gloves is not comparable to communists using electric shock for compliance purposes....maybe I'm wrong. I've never been restricted by communists and experienced their shock treatment.

followed politics? I made my living in the political world, federal level US and internationally. I think I understand politics..Agreed you might not think so...by we're all entitled to our opinions.

Kinzinger is currently the politician I most deeply align with. Surprised you had not heard of him. He voted for impeachment and was on the Jan 6th committee so he is very critical of Trump and MAGA. I realize with as may Reps as there are it is impossible to know them all. I just assumed he was more well known. As much as people give you a hard time you are one of the few MAGA's I feel worth responding to, as you are much more level headed than some of the far rights on here.

 

[tigres88]

I think my issue is they already have tasers. So this feels like just another toy they want, rather than paying for body cams that are desperately needed.

Body cams protect the ICE agents too from any he said she said, etc. Or they will, assuming they are in the right.

It's giving temu James bond stuff- 'how cool would it be if we gave them *SHOCK GLOVES*'.

Just so stupid

 

[dpic73]

Certainly not before they are outfitted with body cams they are required to activate during any action at risk of being summarily fired for "noncompliance".

I mean, how many examples have we seen where they're not well-trained with the tools they already have and we want to give these thugs more ways to hurt people? Surely they can take down a suspect with the tools already at their disposal.

 

[BelemNole]

Don't follow kinzinger, so I'll accept your interpretation. I just think debate over another means to deescalate a situation without physical force makes sense...like I posted we were happy when police started using tasers - electric shock - as a means to limit guns...now we're upset that ICE might use a similar less lethal tactic....seems like phony outrage. I doubt, but admit I don't know for a fact that Ice agents using electric shock gloves is not comparable to communists using electric shock for compliance purposes....maybe I'm wrong. I've never been restricted by communists and experienced their shock treatment.

followed politics? I made my living in the political world, federal level US and internationally. I think I understand politics..Agreed you might not think so...by we're all entitled to our opinions.

Are you sure you're smart?
Because some of the things you say really point to you being closer to Gibbs intelligence.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I mean, how many examples have we seen where they're not well-trained with the tools they already have and we want to give these thugs more ways to hurt people? Surely they can take down a suspect with the tools already at their disposal.

What they really need is rigorous instruction in use of force focused specifically on when it's allowable.

Check that... what they really need is for every one of them to be sh*t-canned and forced to reapply with extensive vetting. But - barring that - the first option.

 

[dpic73]

 

[lucas80]

Torture and civil rights abuses sound ugly. Use a peppy word like compliance.

 

[baltimorened]

I think my issue is they already have tasers. So this feels like just another toy they want, rather than paying for body cams that are desperately needed.

Body cams protect the ICE agents too from any he said she said, etc. Or they will, assuming they are in the right.

I'm all in favor of bodycams

 

[baltimorened]

Kinzinger is currently the politician I most deeply align with. Surprised you had not heard of him. He voted for impeachment and was on the Jan 6th committee so he is very critical of Trump and MAGA. I realize with as may Reps as there are it is impossible to know them all. I just assumed he was more well known. As much as people give you a hard time you are one of the few MAGA's I feel worth responding to, as you are much more level headed than some of the far rights on here.

I remember Kinzinger....I think like many of us, he is sometimes reasonable and sometimes lets his TDS take over..

I understand the frustration with ICE, I have posted before that some of their actions are over the top. But, since we have laws about illegally being in the country, somebody needs to enforce the laws. I'm a person who believes that there are very few people who set out to be viscous in this enforcement. Most Ice agents, IMO, would prefer that someone they're apprehending just put their hands behind their back and accept the handcuffs.

Unfortunately, not all those undocumented folks are so accommodating. So, anything that helps deescalate situations is better in my opinion. Not all ICE agents carry tasers, and if you're wearing electric shocking gloves it, not likely you'll reach for a taser even if you had one..I understand the opinion of posters like DPIC, and I don't discount his opinions. I just know that if I'm an ICE agent and I'm faced with a confrontational, physical engagement, I'd like to have some advantage. TBH I've never heard of electric shocking gloves, so I have no idea if they would be effective or not.

 

[Fac]

Not "shocked" that you don't find it dangerous.

Not shocked that you are protercting illegals.

 

[o_wausauhawk]

followed politics? I made my living in the political world, federal level US and internationally. I think I understand politics..

The way you post, this tracks.

 

[lucas80]

Not shocked that you are protercting illegals.

How so? Be specific.

 

[jedhawk77]

I remember Kinzinger....I think like many of us, he is sometimes reasonable and sometimes lets his TDS take over..

I understand the frustration with ICE, I have posted before that some of their actions are over the top. But, since we have laws about illegally being in the country, somebody needs to enforce the laws. I'm a person who believes that there are very few people who set out to be viscous in this enforcement. Most Ice agents, IMO, would prefer that someone they're apprehending just put their hands behind their back and accept the handcuffs.

Unfortunately, not all those undocumented folks are so accommodating. So, anything that helps deescalate situations is better in my opinion. Not all ICE agents carry tasers, and if you're wearing electric shocking gloves it, not likely you'll reach for a taser even if you had one..I understand the opinion of posters like DPIC, and I don't discount his opinions. I just know that if I'm an ICE agent and I'm faced with a confrontational, physical engagement, I'd like to have some advantage. TBH I've never heard of electric shocking gloves, so I have no idea if they would be effective or not.

Sorry, but that is where we differ. My thoughts are he sees through the MAGA bs. That is not TDS: It's common sense.

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[baltimorened]

Sorry, but that is where we differ. My thoughts are he sees through the MAGA bs. That is not TDS: It's common sense.

so here's something else to consider. We're ok with tasers but not with electric shock gloves..So look at this comparison and make your own determination as to which might be better in the ICE world:

Comparison Summary​

Feature	Taser (CEW)	Electric Shock Gloves (e.g., G.L.O.V.E.)
Peak / Open-Circuit Voltage	~50,000 Volts (50 kV)	~210 to 380 Volts
Voltage Under Load (On Body)	~1,000 to 1,200 Volts	~200 to 380 Volts
Delivery Method	Darts shot via wires (or drive-stun contact)	Direct contact via conductive pads on the palm
Physiological Effect	Neuromuscular Incapacitation (NMI)	Pain Compliance / Peripheral Nerve Interference
Clothing Penetration	Arcs through thick clothing via darts	Requires direct skin-to-skin contact

 

[baltimorened]

Sorry, but that is where we differ. My thoughts are he sees through the MAGA bs. That is not TDS: It's common sense.

OK, but this time he might have gotten just a little far out over his skis. At least IMO. When you look at comparisons of electric shock power of electric shock gloves compared with power from even tasers, I really don't think that electric shock gloves are in the same category as electric shock that might be used by communists.

Again, just my opinion, but if I was being apprehended, I would prefer the apprehendor used 380 volts as opposed to over 50,000...

I'm not trying to argue, or be contrarian, because honestly, I din;t know the context of Kinzinger's thoughts on this, it's simply that the gloves use a heck of a lot less power than even tasers and if we're ok with using tasers then shock gloves should be a preferred substitute. But maybe i'm reading too much into all this.

 

[jedhawk77]

OK, but this time he might have gotten just a little far out over his skis. At least IMO. When you look at comparisons of electric shock power of electric shock gloves compared with power from even tasers, I really don't think that electric shock gloves are in the same category as electric shock that might be used by communists.

Again, just my opinion, but if I was being apprehended, I would prefer the apprehendor used 380 volts as opposed to over 50,000...

I'm not trying to argue, or be contrarian, because honestly, I din;t know the context of Kinzinger's thoughts on this, it's simply that the gloves use a heck of a lot less power than even tasers and if we're ok with using tasers then shock gloves should be a preferred substitute. But maybe i'm reading too much into all this.

I'm not trying to argue the use of these gloves. ICE and DT 47 have enough other items to be criticized for. I was just trying to clarify what Kinzinger means. I'm sure he would not argue that his post was full of hyperbole. He was using it as a joke aimed at the far right MAGA's that are saying that any candidate that is blue is a communist. If you want to debate the use of these gloves I'll let others take the reins. If you want to debate Kinzinger I'll continue our discussion.

 

[baltimorened]

I'm not trying to argue the use of these gloves. ICE and DT 47 have enough other items to be criticized for. I was just trying to clarify what Kinzinger means. I'm sure he would not argue that his post was full of hyperbole. He was using it as a joke aimed at the far right MAGA's that are saying that any candidate that is blue is a communist. If you want to debate the use of these gloves I'll let others take the reins. If you want to debate Kinzinger I'll continue our discussion.

I would have a hard time debating on Kinzinger. I agree with a lot of what he says, and I think we need some "bomb throwers", for want of a better term, to question the groupthink that goes on up on capital hill. I will say though that he would come off as more "reasonable" if he wasn't anti trump on everything. There are enough real factors where trump deserves criticism to "joke" about others. Kinzinger is a former Army officer, so he would have some good insights on the Iran combat strategy.

I'm also not one of those that believes everyone on far right, or anyone, can use the word "communist" with a straight face...socialist yes. But that's just politics.
I also don't take seriously those on the left that use their term "fascist" when someone uses it.

It's a shame we can't get our leaders to stop all this and start to work together.

 

[jedhawk77]

I would have a hard time debating on Kinzinger. I agree with a lot of what he says, and I think we need some "bomb throwers", for want of a better term, to question the groupthink that goes on up on capital hill. I will say though that he would come off as more "reasonable" if he wasn't anti trump on everything. There are enough real factors where trump deserves criticism to "joke" about others. Kinzinger is a former Army officer, so he would have some good insights on the Iran combat strategy.

I'm also not one of those that believes everyone on far right, or anyone, can use the word "communist" with a straight face...socialist yes. But that's just politics.
I also don't take seriously those on the left that use their term "fascist" when someone uses it.

It's a shame we can't get our leaders to stop all this and start to work together.

I mean he was a congressman during Jan 6. Pretty much all republicans appeared to be anti Jan 6 until DT47 flipped the script. So I don't blame him for being anti Trump. But Jan 6 is another topic for a different day that has been rehashed ad nauseum anyways.

 

[Tom Paris]

don't you find the need to do "hand to hand" engagements with dangerous undocumented people dangerous?

It’s about the cruelty, ned. I think there’s enough videos out there to back that up. You’re a trip.

 

[Tom Paris]

I remember Kinzinger....I think like many of us, he is sometimes reasonable and sometimes lets his TDS take over..

I understand the frustration with ICE, I have posted before that some of their actions are over the top. But, since we have laws about illegally being in the country, somebody needs to enforce the laws. I'm a person who believes that there are very few people who set out to be viscous in this enforcement. Most Ice agents, IMO, would prefer that someone they're apprehending just put their hands behind their back and accept the handcuffs.

Unfortunately, not all those undocumented folks are so accommodating. So, anything that helps deescalate situations is better in my opinion. Not all ICE agents carry tasers, and if you're wearing electric shocking gloves it, not likely you'll reach for a taser even if you had one..I understand the opinion of posters like DPIC, and I don't discount his opinions. I just know that if I'm an ICE agent and I'm faced with a confrontational, physical engagement, I'd like to have some advantage. TBH I've never heard of electric shocking gloves, so I have no idea if they would be effective or not.

TDS? You used that acronym, so I ignored the rest of what you typed. You’re a game player. I doubt you believe half of what you post.

 

[Tom Paris]

Not shocked that you are protercting illegals.

You seem intelligent.

 

[WDDT]

It’s about the cruelty, ned. I think there’s enough videos out there to back that up. You’re a trip.

You think they should just shoot them?

 

[Tom Paris]

so here's something else to consider. We're ok with tasers but not with electric shock gloves..So look at this comparison and make your own determination as to which might be better in the ICE world:

Comparison Summary​

Feature	Taser (CEW)	Electric Shock Gloves (e.g., G.L.O.V.E.)
Peak / Open-Circuit Voltage	~50,000 Volts (50 kV)	~210 to 380 Volts
Voltage Under Load (On Body)	~1,000 to 1,200 Volts	~200 to 380 Volts
Delivery Method	Darts shot via wires (or drive-stun contact)	Direct contact via conductive pads on the palm
Physiological Effect	Neuromuscular Incapacitation (NMI)	Pain Compliance / Peripheral Nerve Interference
Clothing Penetration	Arcs through thick clothing via darts	Requires direct skin-to-skin contact

Just say you’re for ICE injuring humans for fun.

 

[dpic73]

Not shocked that you are protercting illegals.

I'm shocked that you don't understand that I'm in favor of protecting undocumented "human beings" and American citizens from being injured or worse by these poorly trained thugs who won't hesitate using violent means to subdue people, even when they comply. Giving them more tools to make it even easier to harm people is inhuman so unless you're a known criminal, I don't want any of them to be taken by violent means, especially since the agents work in groups and should be able to physically capture and detain them without putting them into cardiac arrest. Their lives shouldn't be that unimportant.

 

[Fac]

Not "shocked" that you don't find it dangerous.

Not "shocked" that you do.

 

[Fac]

I'm shocked that you don't understand that I'm in favor of protecting undocumented "human beings" and American citizens from being injured or worse by these poorly trained thugs who won't hesitate using violent means to subdue people, even when they comply. Giving them more tools to make it even easier to harm people is inhuman so unless you're a known criminal, I don't want any of them to be taken by violent means, especially since the agents work in groups and should be able to physically capture and detain them without putting them into cardiac arrest. Their lives shouldn't be that unimportant.

If these "illegal" undocumented "human beings" wouldn't "resist" their encounter with ICE then the encounter wouldn't have to become physical. Ever think of that?

 

[dpic73]

Not "shocked" that you do.

I have reason to, what's your excuse?



Electric shock gloves can contribute to fatal cardiac events, and their official operating manuals strictly warn against using them on vulnerable groups. Known in law enforcement and corrections as the G.L.O.V.E. (Generated Low Output Voltage Emitter), these devices deliver direct-contact electricity—up to 380 volts—to induce localized pain and compliance. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

While manufacturers market them as "non-lethal" and safer than conventional high-voltage Tasers, prolonged exposure, misuse, or pre-existing health conditions significantly elevate their medical danger. [1, 2]

---

Can They Cause Heart Attacks or Cardiac Arrest?

Yes. Although they use a lower voltage than standard Tasers, they still pass an electrical current into the body that carries severe cardiovascular risks: [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]

• Heart Rhythms and Blood Pressure: The user manuals for these devices explicitly state that the shock can cause sharp spikes in blood pressure and dangerous changes in heart rhythm (arrhythmias). [1]
• Cardiac Arrest vs. Heart Attack: A severe electrical current across the chest can trigger ventricular fibrillation—a condition where the heart quivers chaotically and stops pumping blood (sudden cardiac arrest). It can also overstress the heart, precipitating a myocardial infarction (heart attack) in susceptible individuals. [1, 2, 3, 4]
• Fatal Precedents: These tools have been linked to fatalities. A prominent lawsuit detailed by the Associated Press highlights a 43-year-old custody-holder who went into cardiac arrest and died after being shocked 27 times with these gloves. Internal investigations found the shocks were held for up to 99 seconds, drastically exceeding the recommended safety limits. [1, 2]

---

Specific Dangers for Vulnerable Groups

Because of these cardiovascular and neurological strains, manufacturer guidelines strictly mandate that electric shock gloves should not be used on the following populations: [1, 2, 3]

Children

• Higher Current Density: Children have thinner skin, less body mass, and lower electrical resistance. The same electrical charge that causes a localized shock in an adult will travel much deeper into a child's body, radically increasing the risk of cardiac disruption. [1, 2]
• Neurological Damage: Developing nervous systems are highly sensitive to electrical current, and shock exposure can trigger severe seizures. [1, 2]

The Elderly

• Pre-existing Fragility: Older adults are statistically far more likely to have underlying cardiovascular issues, coronary artery disease, or pacemakers. A sudden voltage emitter can easily overwhelm an aging heart. [1]
• Hypertensive Emergencies: The instantaneous spike in blood pressure caused by the shock can cause strokes or ruptured vessels in elderly individuals with fragile vascular systems. [1, 2]

Pregnant Individuals

• Fetal Distress: Electrical current passing through a pregnant individual's body can travel through the amniotic fluid, exposing the fetus directly to electrical trauma. [1]
• Miscarriage Risk: The extreme physical shock, intense pain, and surge of stress hormones (adrenaline and cortisol) can induce uterine contractions, placental abruption, or fetal cardiac arrest. [1]

 

[dpic73]

If these "illegal" undocumented "human beings" wouldn't "resist" their encounter with ICE then the encounter wouldn't have to become physical. Ever think of that?

How many examples do we now have of these thugs using violent means to capture or kill citizens, the undocumented or people here on a green card when it wasn't necessary? If you have to kill or injure them to capture them, let them go and come back for them another day/way - unless they are known criminals.

 

[Fac]

How many examples do we now have of these thugs using violent means to capture or kill citizens, the undocumented or people here on a green card when it wasn't necessary? If you have to kill or injure them to capture them, let them go and come back for them another day/way - unless they are known criminals.

How many of the illegals have killed Americans? It starts there and it should end there.

 

[McLovin32]

From what articles have proposed the purpose of the gloves is to subdue recalcitrant undocumented persons

Yeah ICE has a GREAT track record of only roughing up undocumented persons.

 

[dpic73]

How many of the illegals have killed Americans? It starts there and it should end there.

For the third time - unless they are known criminals. The vast majority are not so I don't want to see masked agents in unmarked vehicles kill a father of three, whose been here for 35 years, in his work van because they mistakenly took him for someone else.

If it was your father, you would hope they would take every precaution before injuring or killing him for no good reason. Letting him go would be preferable to putting a bullet in his chest.

 

[Fac]

Yeah ICE has a GREAT track record of only roughing up undocumented persons.

Did any of them resist arrest or try to run over them with a vehicle?
Asking for a friend.

 

[McLovin32]

Did any of them resist arrest or try to run over them with a vehicle?
Asking for a friend.

You have to commit a crime in order to "resist arrest"

So no, they did not.

Answered for your friend.

 

[Fac]

For the third time - unless they are known criminals. The vast majority are not so I don't want to see masked agents in unmarked vehicles kill a father of three, whose been here for 35 years, in his work van because they mistakenly took him for someone else.

If it was your father, you would hope they would take every precaution before injuring or killing him for no good reason. Letting him go would be preferable to putting a bullet in his chest.

For the one hundreth time. Undocumented illegals need to be deported and them come in under the rules of the "LAW".
Or get rid of the law.
Where were you when O'Bama was deporting undocumented illegals?

 

[Yellowsnow51]

This just in: Two ICE agents detain immigrant and give each other high five, resulting in time travel.