When Does the “Student” Leave Student-Athlete?

[ReverseCowbell]

What do you guys think about this as a possible logical trajectory?

At some point, could a college athlete sue the NCAA or the university and argue that requiring him to attend classes is actually interfering with his ability to earn a living?

If I’m essentially a paid athlete, and my future earning potential depends on developing my athletic skills, why are you requiring me to spend 15 or 20 hours a week taking classes that have nothing to do with my profession?

Not that long ago I would have thought this was ridiculous. But given where college athletics is headed, does it really sound that ridiculous anymore?

At what point do we just stop pretending these guys are students?

 

[olblue]

What do you guys think about this as a possible logical trajectory?

At some point, could a college athlete sue the NCAA or the university and argue that requiring him to attend classes is actually interfering with his ability to earn a living?

If I’m essentially a paid athlete, and my future earning potential depends on developing my athletic skills, why are you requiring me to spend 15 or 20 hours a week taking classes that have nothing to do with my profession?

Not that long ago I would have thought this was ridiculous. But given where college athletics is headed, does it really sound that ridiculous anymore?

At what point do we just stop pretending these guys are students?

About 50 years ago.

 

[DAWGSANDSAINTS]

What do you guys think about this as a possible logical trajectory?

At some point, could a college athlete sue the NCAA or the university and argue that requiring him to attend classes is actually interfering with his ability to earn a living?

If I’m essentially a paid athlete, and my future earning potential depends on developing my athletic skills, why are you requiring me to spend 15 or 20 hours a week taking classes that have nothing to do with my profession?

Not that long ago I would have thought this was ridiculous. But given where college athletics is headed, does it really sound that ridiculous anymore?

At what point do we just stop pretending these guys are students?

For me, it was about 2021.
There is no more “student athlete” for most of them.
All football, all basketball, a few baseball players.
They are paid athletes and that’s it.

 

[DerHntr]

Another major difference created by paying players is that athletics staff have a much stronger incentive to reduce distractions for athletes. They have always helped them with easier classes, tutors, etc. But now they may actively participate in keeping them from class altogether. They have an investment to protect.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

I really do not think you all want this. You think you've lost connection with the school now, just wait until you make them 'employees'.

The schools themselves paying players is the dumbest 17ing idea this johnnie foxtrot has ever come up with.

 

[OopsICroomedmypants]

None of them are, or have been a true student athlete for years. The fact that we can have players get a masters degree in 4 years on the team is absurd. Their degree is worthless to me. They are not held to the same standards as the other "students", therefore they are not students. They are something else that I'll just call college athletes. I just wish people and even professors would stop lumping them in with other students and acting like they are really learning something in a classroom setting. Tutors take their test for them, a babysitter wakes them up and makes sure they get to wherever they are going, a chef feeds them, and the babysitter makes sure they are tucked in at night. I'll call them pre-nursing home athletes.

 

[goindhoo]

I really do not think you all want this. You think you've lost connection with the school now, just wait until you make them 'employees'.

The schools themselves paying players is the dumbest 17ing idea this johnnie foxtrot has ever come up with.

Pretty sure I will enjoy it a whole lot more when the school is paying them and not me.

 

[Willow Grove Dawg]

About 50 years ago.

While Johnny Vaught was coaching @ Ole Miss

 

[HailStout]

When they graduate from their institute of higher learning to bravely pursue the next stage of their life.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

Pretty sure I will enjoy it a whole lot more when the school is paying them and not me.

How do you think the school is going to generate that money? By raising prices on you.

Before, only willing participants participated in the paying of players. The idea that you, joe blow fan, was paying them, is one of the biggest fallacies since NIL was created. If you donated to a collective, that was your choice.

But now, indirectly, we're all going to be paying, simply by attending games.

 

[615dawg]

What do you guys think about this as a possible logical trajectory?

At some point, could a college athlete sue the NCAA or the university and argue that requiring him to attend classes is actually interfering with his ability to earn a living?

If I’m essentially a paid athlete, and my future earning potential depends on developing my athletic skills, why are you requiring me to spend 15 or 20 hours a week taking classes that have nothing to do with my profession?

Not that long ago I would have thought this was ridiculous. But given where college athletics is headed, does it really sound that ridiculous anymore?

At what point do we just stop pretending these guys are students?

I will tell you a problem that has not been talked about enough.

There are some P4 football players making $100k, $250k, even $500k and will never see the field. What's going to happen when they get their degree, aided by athletic tutors and AI, and enter the workforce? State Farm isn't going to pay them the kind of money they are used to.

I know a minor Olympic athlete that was not making anywhere close to football money but living pretty well at an SEC school. Took a pay and lifestyle cut to start working.

Paying college athletes will go down as the dumbest decision in sports history.

 

[dorndawg]

I'm going to pass on minor-league professional football and basketball 10 times out of 10.

 

[Bulldog Bruce]

What do you guys think about this as a possible logical trajectory?

At some point, could a college athlete sue the NCAA or the university and argue that requiring him to attend classes is actually interfering with his ability to earn a living?

If I’m essentially a paid athlete, and my future earning potential depends on developing my athletic skills, why are you requiring me to spend 15 or 20 hours a week taking classes that have nothing to do with my profession?

Not that long ago I would have thought this was ridiculous. But given where college athletics is headed, does it really sound that ridiculous anymore?

At what point do we just stop pretending these guys are students?

I have written about this many times on this message board. Every major school should immediately have a professional sports curriculum. Your classes are on communication, business and money management, prelaw on contracts, psychology, kinesiology, technology and analytics and then the actual things on the sports themselves. The school should do everything it can possibly do to focus on having these kids succeed in the career they want to try to succeed in. There are real education opportunities for these kids in that type of education endeavor.

This does not mean that as an athlete you can't have a different goal in life and attend on a scholarship as it is setup now to become a doctor or lawyer or businessman. But for those students that want to try for a career in professional sports, there should be a legitimate focus at schools for them. Professional sports is a gigantic industry in this country and the world.

 

[Seinfeld]

I will tell you a problem that has not been talked about enough.

There are some P4 football players making $100k, $250k, even $500k and will never see the field. What's going to happen when they get their degree, aided by athletic tutors and AI, and enter the workforce? State Farm isn't going to pay them the kind of money they are used to.

I know a minor Olympic athlete that was not making anywhere close to football money but living pretty well at an SEC school. Took a pay and lifestyle cut to start working.

Paying college athletes will go down as the dumbest decision in sports history.

It's basically the same problems in the Pros but on steroids. We've all heard the stories about guys that made tens of millions of dollars, only to be broke and bankrupt by 35. Make big money, spend big money

In college, though, a lot of these guys are only making this kind of money for 2-3 years at best, and >90% will never sniff an NFL or NBA roster.

That said, I'll continue to say that I don't really have any anger or ill will towards the players. I have anger towards the boosters that continue to think that this is the best way to burn a few billion dollars every season

 

[RocketDawg]

What do you guys think about this as a possible logical trajectory?

At some point, could a college athlete sue the NCAA or the university and argue that requiring him to attend classes is actually interfering with his ability to earn a living?

If I’m essentially a paid athlete, and my future earning potential depends on developing my athletic skills, why are you requiring me to spend 15 or 20 hours a week taking classes that have nothing to do with my profession?

Not that long ago I would have thought this was ridiculous. But given where college athletics is headed, does it really sound that ridiculous anymore?

At what point do we just stop pretending these guys are students?

What I've thought for several years now is that, at least in football and basketball, we should just have a minor league team representing a school and stop the pretense. Then, in addition, maybe have club sports for the students that also have some level of athletic ability. No athletic scholarships.

 

[Bagman100]

What I've thought for several years now is that, at least in football and basketball, we should just have a minor league team representing a school and stop the pretense. Then, in addition, maybe have club sports for the students that also have some level of athletic ability. No athletic scholarships.

This is what should be done. The NFL for years just has just gotten away with have college football be it’s de facto minor/developmental league without having to pay a dime.

We should handle this like baseball does. You look at these 18 year olds and say alright you can either come to college but you have to stay 3 years or you can go pro try your hand at the NFL draft or possible CFL/UFL.

 

[Del B Vista]

Go back and take a look at how the term "student-athlete" came into being in the first place. It was created by the NCAA to dodge workman's comp.

 

[OG Goat Holder]

stop the pretense.

What's the pretense? That's what kills me about all you folks that are like "let's just call it like it is, it's a business", or "let's just call them what they are, employees". Not that's not what it is and what they are. This has all been brought about by these rich asss prick boosters who are trying to buy a win.

That's why we should be out of the this damn rev share shlt. This should have stayed with the private entities. Let people do what they want to do with their money. NCAA should have allowed this back in the Pony Excess era and instead, doubled down and started making video games and spitting in faces.

 

[Dirty Dirk]

Go back and take a look at how the term "student-athlete" came into being in the first place. It was created by the NCAA to dodge workman's comp.

 

[Pookieray]

What ever year it was that the athlete was told what to major in and which instructors to take.

 

[Right_Field_Heckler]

Obviously, this would be a pretty wild concept given all of the infrastructure already in place at the college level—stadiums, facilities, etc. But at some point, does this ultimately evolve into some sort of professional league that isn’t associated with colleges at all?

I just don’t see this model being sustainable at the college level beyond maybe 20 programs, and I think that gap is only going to get wider.

Hell, you already have people suing their former schools over jersey numbers and other things.

Don’t put it past the attorney pool to keep pushing the envelope and ramping up these types of claims, regardless of how unlikely they may be to succeed on behalf of their clients.

 

[olblue]

Obviously, this would be a pretty wild concept given all of the infrastructure already in place at the college level—stadiums, facilities, etc. But at some point, does this ultimately evolve into some sort of professional league that isn’t associated with colleges at all?

I just don’t see this model being sustainable at the college level beyond maybe 20 programs, and I think that gap is only going to get wider.

Hell, you already have people suing their former schools over jersey numbers and other things.

Don’t put it past the attorney pool to keep pushing the envelope and ramping up these types of claims, regardless of how unlikely they may be to succeed on behalf of their clients.

I see this thrown out a lot - that it is not sustainable. Yet interest continues to grow.

 

[Maroon Eagle]

I’ve been accused of being a professional student in the past, but this is something different…

 

[greenbean.sixpack]

For football and basketball 50 years ago, for baseball and the rest, 2021.

 

[BTCMoonBoy]

I really do not think you all want this. You think you've lost connection with the school now, just wait until you make them 'employees'.

The schools themselves paying players is the dumbest 17ing idea this johnnie foxtrot has ever come up with.

They are already employees. Those azzholes shouldn’t be on scholarship, shouldn’t stay in campus housing, and shouldn’t be fed by the school.

 

[BTCMoonBoy]

How do you think the school is going to generate that money? By raising prices on you.

Before, only willing participants participated in the paying of players. The idea that you, joe blow fan, was paying them, is one of the biggest fallacies since NIL was created. If you donated to a collective, that was your choice.

But now, indirectly, we're all going to be paying, simply by attending games.

Not getting a wadded up dollar from the washer from me

 

[BTCMoonBoy]

It's basically the same problems in the Pros but on steroids. We've all heard the stories about guys that made tens of millions of dollars, only to be broke and bankrupt by 35. Make big money, spend big money

In college, though, a lot of these guys are only making this kind of money for 2-3 years at best, and >90% will never sniff an NFL or NBA roster.

That said, I'll continue to say that I don't really have any anger or ill will towards the players. I have anger towards the boosters that continue to think that this is the best way to burn a few billion dollars every season

There’s a phrase for this kind of money but I just can’t put my finger on it

 

[85Bears]

For the SEC decades ago, incredibly, Bobby Knight would suspend any player who missed a class and all of his players got their degrees, many in business. they had to keep a binder in their locker and take notes on practices and film sessions. They were true student athletes. I always rooted for them against the likes of Kentucky and LSU which were dirty as hell.

 

[Right_Field_Heckler]

I see this thrown out a lot - that it is not sustainable. Yet interest continues to grow.

I just don’t see the fan-funded portion being sustainable for MSU long term...not to the point where we’re consistently able to compete with the top 25 in football.

There can still be plenty of interest and support around the program, while at the same time, people eventually stop doling out this kind of money.

The revenue coming directly from the school is always going to be there...well, at least as long as we’re in the SEC.

 

[olblue]

I just don’t see the fan-funded portion being sustainable for MSU long term...not to the point where we’re consistently able to compete with the top 25 in football.

There can still be plenty of interest and support around the program, while at the same time, people eventually stop doling out this kind of money.

The revenue coming directly from the school is always going to be there...well, at least as long as we’re in the SEC.

I don’t disagree that there will be booster fatigue, but the product on the fields ands and courts is creating growing interest in the market place creating revenue opportunities that schools are starting to capitalize on. Those revenue opportunities are what will make it sustainable.

 

[Right_Field_Heckler]

I don’t disagree that there will be booster fatigue, but the product on the fields ands and courts is creating growing interest in the market place creating revenue opportunities that schools are starting to capitalize on. Those revenue opportunities are what will make it sustainable.

Right. That's was what I was speaking on, the fans.

I don't doubt the corporate interest will remain and grow.

 

[olblue]

Right. That's was what I was speaking on, the fans.

I don't doubt the corporate interest will remain and grow.

That’s why I am a proponent of PE or other outside expertise taking over the business part of athletic departments. Traditional athletic administrators lack the business acumen and creativity required to maximize revenue.

 

[Right_Field_Heckler]

Sounds like something someone from the Adkerson school of accountancy can handle**

 

[Villagedawg]

It’s been a pretense for a long long time. Probably about 60-70 years. Especially in football and basketball.

 

[ReverseCowbell]

I was thinking more along the lines of when do the players sue the NCAA for requiring class participation.

 

[Called3rdstrikedawg]

For the SEC decades ago, incredibly, Bobby Knight would suspend any player who missed a class and all of his players got their degrees, many in business. they had to keep a binder in their locker and take notes on practices and film sessions. They were true student athletes. I always rooted for them against the likes of Kentucky and LSU which ARE STILL dirty as hell.

FIXED

 

[85Bears]

FIXED

theyre All dirty now.