OT: Could AC actually be on the verge of making comeback?

[yesrutgers01]

Not 100% sure, and it can be looked up, but I know at least police (and probably fire) pensions are not taxed in Delaware. That is a huge benefit in addition to the property tax savings. @yesrutgers01 comments are interesting on sales tax vs. cost, availability of contractors, health insurance, etc.

Years ago, in or experience, "they" always get you one way or another. Indiana had insanely high automobile registration costs (that may have changed for better or worse), and North Carolina had an "intangibles" tax, meaning they taxed your mutual funds and things like that--I forget the particulars, and that too may have changed for better or worse.

I'm reminded of the song the Taxman:

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman

It is funny- for specialized service my wife would normally get- hair and nails- keep in mind, for her hair, that is completely different from a typical "white" woman hair. But it was less expensive to drive back into NJ, pay for gas and tolls plus the service, then to go to a local business. Nails- pretty much the same thing. Something that was a $70 service in NJ was almost $300 here.

For health insurance- shortly after getting here, I had to look into getting my own private health care insurance. While in NJ- when I had checked into it- I could call any of the major companies and they could quote me. When I did so in Delaware- they ask if this is through a corporation or private. If private- "we cannot provide that to you directly in Delaware, you have to go through Marketplace. And then find out that they do not allow a out of network that is outside of Delaware.

And as I mentioned, taxes are going up and going up fast.

And my biggest gripe - Almost impossible to find a local deli. It is almost Wawa or nothing and chain restaurants for everything else.

 

[Knight Shift]

It is funny- for specialized service my wife would normally get- hair and nails- keep in mind, for her hair, that is completely different from a typical "white" woman hair. But it was less expensive to drive back into NJ, pay for gas and tolls plus the service, then to go to a local business. Nails- pretty much the same thing. Something that was a $70 service in NJ was almost $300 here.

For health insurance- shortly after getting here, I had to look into getting my own private health care insurance. While in NJ- when I had checked into it- I could call any of the major companies and they could quote me. When I did so in Delaware- they ask if this is through a corporation or private. If private- "we cannot provide that to you directly in Delaware, you have to go through Marketplace. And then find out that they do not allow a out of network that is outside of Delaware.

And as I mentioned, taxes are going up and going up fast.

And my biggest gripe - Almost impossible to find a local deli. It is almost Wawa or nothing and chain restaurants for everything else.

Is there a lack of a base of customers in the hair area? I remember years ago when we worked for a corporation in NC, where that was not an issue, but many professionals resisted getting sent to upstate NY in a tiny town, because non-whites had to drive 45 miles to get a hair cut. And this corporation was very big on promoting diversity in the workplace, but their location was a real Achilles heel. The funniest thing about their location, and this was a really long time ago, in the late 1800's the corporation left Brooklyn NY to move to BumblFlock, NY. Corporate genius moves never cease to amaze!

 

[RUschool]

I remember 30-40 years ago, people talking about Newark and if it would ever comeback. I actually think it has turned around in the downtown area starting 5-8 years ago with many new condo apartments buildings being built. It’s finally happening but many might say it’s still haven’t happened. Maybe the average apartment rent of $6,600 a month in NYC are driving more people to Newark which is a easy commute on the path train.

 

[Knight Shift]

I remember 30-40 years ago, people talking about Newark and if it would ever comeback. I actually think it has turned around in the downtown area starting 5-8 years ago with many new condo apartments buildings being built. It’s finally happening but many might say it’s still haven’t happened. Maybe the average apartment rent of $6,600 a month in NYC are driving more people to Newark which is a easy commute on the path train.

It may be East Newark, or it may be Harrison, but it had been many years since I had taken the PATH from Newark station to WTC, and last fall I was absolutely floored by the number of new buildings along the PATH line.

On a separate note, another place considered dead that is picking up is Keansburg, NJ--it's the last refuge of affordability along the Jersey Shore. Sure, it still has issues and is not a shiny place, but things are picking up. Close to Exit 117 on the Parkway and not far from the ferries to NYC.

 

[RU206]

It may be East Newark, or it may be Harrison, but it had been many years since I had taken the PATH from Newark station to WTC, and last fall I was absolutely floored by the number of new buildings along the PATH line.

On a separate note, another place considered dead that is picking up is Keansburg, NJ--it's the last refuge of affordability along the Jersey Shore. Sure, it still has issues and is not a shiny place, but things are picking up. Close to Exit 117 on the Parkway and not far from the ferries to NYC.

Keansburg will be completely overhauled soon. The surrounding areas have some of the highest pricing increases.

 

[DJ Spanky]

Ryan Homes and Hovnanian building there is a good sign

Good sign for development. But bad sign for quality construction.

Ain't that the truth!!!

 

[Knight Shift]

Good sign for development. But bad sign for quality construction.

Lived in two of their rattletrap condos in the 1990's. Never saw corners where drywall met in the shape of an S-curve anywhere else. Thought it was some sort of artistic design. They popcorned their ceilings, and still saw nailpops galore. We were afraid to open and close windows for fear they would fall apart. Good times!!

 

[yesrutgers01]

Is there a lack of a base of customers in the hair area? I remember years ago when we worked for a corporation in NC, where that was not an issue, but many professionals resisted getting sent to upstate NY in a tiny town, because non-whites had to drive 45 miles to get a hair cut. And this corporation was very big on promoting diversity in the workplace, but their location was a real Achilles heel. The funniest thing about their location, and this was a really long time ago, in the late 1800's the corporation left Brooklyn NY to move to BumblFlock, NY. Corporate genius moves never cease to amaze!

Just pure lack of competition- in Nj every town has mult ethnic hair places. Same with nail.
For home services and improvements- same thing. Competition

 

[bigmatt718]

I will say its not coming back

Casinos are dead besides Borgota. You can gamble on your phone. This same discussion was on the board over a decade when Bot was singing the praises of a revival headline by the Revel. Where are the people going to come from. Asbury revitilization started with the gays and the nyc and north jersey money rolled in. Where is AC gping to pull from. The rich in Philly are in Avalon Stone Harbor etc

I agree. I think AC is dead and buried. Like you said, the rich people from Philly/South Jersey are investing in the Hamptons of the South Jersey Shore (Avalon, Stone Harbor, starting to move into Sea Isle, Margate, Ventnor and North Wildwood).

 

[yesrutgers01]

Ain't that the truth!!!

Ryan homes has a horrible Rep in Delaware..,

 

[bigmatt718]

Yep.

Brigantine was one of / the most affordable beach towns south of LBI. While that’s probably still the case, the money and development that has pumped into the island since COVID has been significant.

Every lot is getting gobbled up and every small / old house is getting torn down in place of a house 5x + the size.

It’s still a hidden gem imo. Not much to do (which I love) and really great beaches.

Close enough to AC, Ocean City, Cape May etc.

I just wish the food / restaurant scene was better for how big the island is.

It's crazy how Brigantine has next to no decent places to eat/drink for a quiet shore town. Even OCNJ at least has their boardwalk and some solid bars/restaurants on the mainland in Somers Point.

 

[bigmatt718]

All of nj as a result of being in the middle of the nyc-dc commuter corridor. All areas in between these two cities will be developed in the next 30 to 50 years...I'm actually thinking about Delaware, retiree's like it, a couple universities, some "beaches"..I like to gamble, may take a swing on something near University of Delaware or something near the beaches there..

Look at OCMD as well. My grandparents retired to Ocean Pines there in the 90s. Some areas of the mainland are solid.

 

[newell138]

How is the OC doing? Once thing I noticed, most neighborhoods don't have any pools! LOL. I guess the houses are too close together in most places.

Pools are not really a thing here but like any other shore town construction is going nuts. Great for my realtor daughter as she is killing it. Anyone looking for an investment opportunity, she is managing the sales on this project which is the biggest one in OC's history

The Soleil Resort | Discover Your Luxury Home Today

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Look at OCMD as well. My grandparents retired to Ocean Pines there in the 90s. Some areas of the mainland are solid.

In laws bought a place in OP. Couldn’t stand them, but going there eased the pain. Great spot

 

[RUschool]

It may be East Newark, or it may be Harrison, but it had been many years since I had taken the PATH from Newark station to WTC, and last fall I was absolutely floored by the number of new buildings along the PATH line.

On a separate note, another place considered dead that is picking up is Keansburg, NJ--it's the last refuge of affordability along the Jersey Shore. Sure, it still has issues and is not a shiny place, but things are picking up. Close to Exit 117 on the Parkway and not far from the ferries to NYC.

The rent in all those new buildings aren’t cheap. I guess $2,500-3,000 a month is normal in Newark. Housing in Newark has increased 70%-100% the last 6 years.

 

[Knight Shift]

Pools are not really a thing here but like any other shore town construction is going nuts. Great for my realtor daughter as she is killing it. Anyone looking for an investment opportunity, she is managing the sales on this project which is the biggest one in OC's history

The Soleil Resort | Discover Your Luxury Home Today

Do you get a commission?

Question-are these high rises, condos, townhouses, or single family places?

 

[NotInRHouse]

People will go to AC because everywhere north of there is insanely priced.

You can still get a condo for 200 something in AC.

Vegas is dying because people can't afford flights and no international tourists want to come to the US. Not really issues for AC with driving and Canadians were coming less for a while now sadly.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Do you get a commission?

Question-are these high rises, condos, townhouses, or single family places?

Looks like a 6-story condo building. I'm sure it will do well, but not our vibe.

 

[Knight Shift]

Looks like a 6-story condo building. I'm sure it will do well, but not our vibe.

Looking more for investment-- the "completely free from the responsibilities of traditional property management" is intriguing if there is enough skim for the landlord. May want to roll out of something we own now that would have a huge capital gains issue, and see if we can do a 1031 exchange so as to not get killed on the capital gains.

 

[Fat Koko]

I remember 30-40 years ago, people talking about Newark and if it would ever comeback. I actually think it has turned around in the downtown area starting 5-8 years ago with many new condo apartments buildings being built. It’s finally happening but many might say it’s still haven’t happened. Maybe the average apartment rent of $6,600 a month in NYC are driving more people to Newark which is a easy commute on the path train.

One way to measure if a Northeast or Midwest city is coming back is the population. Newark's population went into a swan dive after 1950, beginning in the 1990s it hit rock bottom, now the population growth is accelerating.

FYI - Back in 1998 when at Rutgers, I had gig job and did a land use survey of Newark to identify the use (2-family home, retail, etc) of every tax lot of Newark. There are tens of thousands of them. That was when the city was at rock bottom.

1950 438,776 2.1%
1960 405,220 −7.6%
1970 381,930 −5.7%
1980 329,248 −13.8%
1990 275,221 −16.4%
2000 273,546 −0.6%
2010 277,140 1.3%
2020 311,549 12.4%

 

[Fat Koko]

It may be East Newark, or it may be Harrison, but it had been many years since I had taken the PATH from Newark station to WTC, and last fall I was absolutely floored by the number of new buildings along the PATH line.

On a separate note, another place considered dead that is picking up is Keansburg, NJ--it's the last refuge of affordability along the Jersey Shore. Sure, it still has issues and is not a shiny place, but things are picking up. Close to Exit 117 on the Parkway and not far from the ferries to NYC.

Harrison, fastest growing town in state's fasted growing county, Hudson

1950 13,490 −4.8%
1960 11,743 −13.0%
1970 11,811 0.6%
1980 12,242 3.6%
1990 13,425 9.7%
2000 14,424 7.4%
2010 13,620 −5.6%
2020 19,450 42.8%
2024 (est.) 22,182 14.0%

 

[Knight Shift]

Harrison, fastest growing town in state's fasted growing county, Hudson

1950 13,490 −4.8%
1960 11,743 −13.0%
1970 11,811 0.6%
1980 12,242 3.6%
1990 13,425 9.7%
2000 14,424 7.4%
2010 13,620 −5.6%
2020 19,450 42.8%
2024 (est.) 22,182 14.0%

Home of Ray Lucas!!!!

 

[T2Kplus20]

Looking more for investment-- the "completely free from the responsibilities of traditional property management" is intriguing if there is enough skim for the landlord. May want to roll out of something we own now that would have a huge capital gains issue, and see if we can do a 1031 exchange so as to not get killed on the capital gains.

Cap gains are a killer! We are planning on some housework (master bath and kitchen) and will be taking an asset-backed loan instead of selling equities and getting smashed with taxes. We feel like Elon and the high-rollers!

Not sure about the facts, but I saw a few posts on the complex that monthly fees are insane (which will cut into cash flow for landlords).

 

[Fat Koko]

Home of Ray Lucas!!!!

Ray runs the housing authority there.

They aren’t responsible for all the new building though. That is the mayors of Hudson County who unlike their suburban counterparts are not afraid to issue residential building permits by the thousands.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I agree. I think AC is dead and buried. Like you said, the rich people from Philly/South Jersey are investing in the Hamptons of the South Jersey Shore (Avalon, Stone Harbor, starting to move into Sea Isle, Margate, Ventnor and North Wildwood).

I don't think AC needs an influx of buyers that are moving into those areas but buyers that are looking for a little more affordable housing. Maybe first time buyers. But anything is better than what was there.

 

[newell138]

Looking more for investment-- the "completely free from the responsibilities of traditional property management" is intriguing if there is enough skim for the landlord. May want to roll out of something we own now that would have a huge capital gains issue, and see if we can do a 1031 exchange so as to not get killed on the capital gains.

I sent you a DM...

Ocean City's Soleil Resort condo project anticipating fall groundbreaking - nj.com

 

[29PAS]

Also the boom in Ventnor / Margate / Brigantine the last few years has to be good for Atlantic City. More potential visitors with $ and more investment potential.

Good to hear these towns are doing well. I spent a good portion of my 60's high school summers in Ventnor and loved it.

 

[Knight Shift]

I sent you a DM...

Ocean City's Soleil Resort condo project anticipating fall groundbreaking - nj.com

Paywalled, but I sort of got the gist.

 

[bigmatt718]

Good to hear these towns are doing well. I spent a good portion of my 60's high school summers in Ventnor and loved it.

Ventnor and Margate are my favorite shore towns at this point in my life. Wildwood is too trashy, and I'm not rich enough to hang in Avalon/Stone Harbor. Cape May is too far a drive. I like Sea Isle a lot but it's quickly becoming as overpriced as Avalon/Stone Harbor and I don't have kids so OCNJ isn't my vibe either.

 

[Fat Koko]

Atlantic City population

1950 61,657 −3.8%
1960 59,544 −3.4%
1970 47,859 −19.6%
1980 40,199 −16.0%
1990 37,986 −5.5%
2000 40,517 6.7%
2010 39,558 −2.4%
2020 38,497 −2.7%

This trend is closer to Camden and Salem city than urban municipalities of North Jersey that are seeing population rebounds.

That being said, Asbury Park's population isn't growing, it is just turning over.

 

[Knight Shift]

Atlantic City population

1950 61,657 −3.8%
1960 59,544 −3.4%
1970 47,859 −19.6%
1980 40,199 −16.0%
1990 37,986 −5.5%
2000 40,517 6.7%
2010 39,558 −2.4%
2020 38,497 −2.7%

This trend is closer to Camden and Salem city than urban municipalities of North Jersey that are seeing population rebounds.

That being said, Asbury Park's population isn't growing, it is just turning over.

All the fancy apartments, townhouses, etc are likely second homes for rich people in Asbury, and not contributing to population increase. There are more rumblings about the disenfranchisement of the people on the West Side, and it's legit.

 

[T2Kplus20]

All the fancy apartments, townhouses, etc are likely second homes for rich people in Asbury, and not contributing to population increase. There are more rumblings about the disenfranchisement of the people on the West Side, and it's legit.

Makes a lot of sense. Most of the "growth" are second homes throughout the Jersey shore.

 

[Fat Koko]

All the fancy apartments, townhouses, etc are likely second homes for rich people in Asbury, and not contributing to population increase. There are more rumblings about the disenfranchisement of the people on the West Side, and it's legit.

Asbury Park's population is turning over, whites are replacing blacks.

2000-2020
White population +68%
Black population -51%

The demographic turnover means today Asbury Park has more whites than blacks, along a white mayor after five black mayors in a row. Nobody is being disenfranchised, meaning barred from voting.

 

[Knight Shift]

Asbury Park's population is turning over, whites are replacing blacks.

2000-2020
White population +68%
Black population -51%

The demographic turnover means today Asbury Park has more whites than blacks, along a white mayor after five black mayors in a row. Nobody is being disenfranchised, meaning barred from voting.

You sound like you have white privilege.

Disenfranchised: deprived of some right, privilege, or immunity.

Not limited to voting. If you drive around the West side, you see nothing going on for redevelopment or sprucing up the area on the scale you see close to the ocean. Yeah, boo hoo. But the city is making money and pouring more and more of it into the area near the ocean. Is that fair to the poor people on the west side?

 

[koleszar]

Asbury Park resurgence was all about the Gay's. Not the lesbian's (they just b*tch and are horrible to work for) but the Gay's. Those dudes don't mind spending and want it done right. Worked for a lot of them during the resurgence and they were some of my best customers. You need them to hit up AC, then you'll see a resurgence.

 

[Fat Koko]

You sound like you have white privilege.

Disenfranchised: deprived of some right, privilege, or immunity.

Not limited to voting. If you drive around the West side, you see nothing going on for redevelopment or sprucing up the area on the scale you see close to the ocean. Yeah, boo hoo. But the city is making money and pouring more and more of it into the area near the ocean. Is that fair to the poor people on the west side?

Families on Asbury Park's west side are abandoning the city because Asbury Park's public schools are inferior compared to the schools in the rest of Monmouth County.

Families want to live in good school districts. Asbury Park's 2025 enrollment 1,375 versus 2018 enrollment of 2,543. Asbury Park's families are voting with their feet and almost certainly enjoying better lives elsewhere.

Who would invest in neighborhood people are fleeing?

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Families on Asbury Park's west side are abandoning the city because Asbury Park's public schools are inferior compared to the schools in the rest of Monmouth County.

Families want to live in good school districts. Asbury Park's 2025 enrollment 1,375 versus enrollment of 2,543. Asbury Park's families are voting with their feet and almost certainly enjoying better lives elsewhere.

Who would invest in neighborhood people are fleeing?

Look into enrollment in Lambertville Public Schools versus property values. There are edge cases where property values can go up while school enrollment goes down, especially in areas there the people moving in are less likely to have children.

 

[newell138]

Look into enrollment in Lambertville Public Schools versus property values. There are edge cases where property values can go up while school enrollment goes down, especially in areas there the people moving in are less likely to have children.

I honestly don’t know how so many young families are affording to move to OCNJ but I guess they are doing something right. Talking to a couple moms at the playground tonight with my grandson and both just moved here and each had a couple kids. A family down the steeet from me has 5. Nice to see

 

[Fat Koko]

Look into enrollment in Lambertville Public Schools versus property values. There are edge cases where property values can go up while school enrollment goes down, especially in areas there the people moving in are less likely to have children.

Lambertville doesn't have a school district.

 

[Rutgers Chris]

Lambertville doesn't have a school district.

Exactly. Lambertville elementary was its own school until recently. Due to changing demographics it became south hunterdon elementary a few years ago, combining Lambertville, Stockton and West Amwell. Less kids, smaller school, higher property values