To Improve Student Mental Health, University of Michigan Eases Grading

[BelemNole]

I was a freshman at UC Santa Barbara, when you had to be in the top 12% to get in and I transferred out after freshman yr. My daughter is a sophomore at Ohio State and was accepted at several UC campuses a couple of years ago. Maybe if UC leaders weren't so woke and delusional they would be better at their jobs and wouldn't need remedial math classes for large numbers of students.

You should have stayed, you could have learned to support your arguments with facts instead of feelings.

 

[RockyMtNole]

This is a joke, right?

No, it just isn’t something that bothers me. It’s one semester, and if anything I question why Michigan is rolling it out for just one of its colleges.

I have kids out of, in and approaching college so have a sense of what students deal with these days. Yes, we did things different back in our day, but we also had it much easier in many respects IMO.

I have never heard of the first semester of college referred to as a weeding out period. College isn’t SEAL school - schools aren’t trying to make kids fail out. They want them to succeed so if they think this will help the transition that’s up to them.

 

[BroncHawk]

It does seem kind of silly, and I agree that not everyone is cut out for college, but some of these reactions are way sillier. It’s one freaking semester.

 

[BelemNole]

No, it just isn’t something that bothers me. It’s one semester, and if anything I question why Michigan is rolling it out for just one of its colleges.

I have kids out of, in and approaching college so have a sense of what students deal with these days. Yes, we did things different back in our day, but we also had it much easier in many respects IMO.

I have never heard of the first semester of college referred to as a weeding out period. College isn’t SEAL school - schools aren’t trying to make kids fail out. They want them to succeed so if they think this will help the transition that’s up to them.

Well, my first semester at school they brought us all into a big auditorium and gave us the speech to look left/right - that those kids wouldn't be there next year. It seemed to be a thing of pride that they winnowed out 2/3 of the freshman class back then.

 

[RockyMtNole]

Well, my first semester at school they brought us all into a big auditorium and gave us the speech to look left/right - that those kids wouldn't be there next year. It seemed to be a thing of pride that they winnowed out 2/3 of the freshman class back then.

I don’t remember that
Maybe I was in the easy classes!

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

We’ve completely failed our youth. Btw. What type of people run the NEA, AFT and DOE? Libs or conservatives?

You already know.

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

It's pretty telling that instead of answering the question you say that lists aren't reliable then pivot to middle school test scores.

Maybe if you'd have gone thru the UC system you'd be better at this.

Didn't help you with your science denialism, did it?

 

[DailyBuck7]

You should have stayed, you could have learned to support your arguments with facts instead of feelings.

I saw your post and thought to myself holy smokes maybe I could have learned a lot more at the University of California. In that light, I am citing two blog posts I made and hoping that with your University of California background, you can inform me of how I could have raised those articles to University of California standards. If you have any specific comments as to mistakes that were made, they would be greatly appreciated.
https://rankexploits.com/musings/20...ication-that-was-based-on-the-steele-dossier/

https://rankexploits.com/musings/20...s-as-was-decided-by-the-dc-court-of-appeals/0

Also, if you have any of your publications showing your exemplary logic and writing ability, I would appreciate those publications or post so I can learn from them. Thanks in advance.

 

[BelemNole]

I saw your post and thought to myself holy smokes maybe I could have learned a lot more at the University of California. In that light, I am citing two blog posts I made and hoping that with your University of California background, you can inform me of how I could have raised those articles to University of California standards. If you have any specific comments as to mistakes that were made, they would be greatly appreciated.
https://rankexploits.com/musings/20...ication-that-was-based-on-the-steele-dossier/

https://rankexploits.com/musings/20...s-as-was-decided-by-the-dc-court-of-appeals/0

Also, if you have any of your publications showing your exemplary logic and writing ability, I would appreciate those publications or post so I can learn from them. Thanks in advance.

I'm sorry, what now?

You avoided my challenge on public college rankings by talking about middle school math scores in Ohio.
NOW you want me to read blog posts you made about the Steel Dossier?
You'll try anything to avoid discussing actual rankings won't you?

On second thought I agree with your decision - you REALLY didn't belong in the UC system and I'm thrilled you left.

 

[DailyBuck7]

I'm sorry, what now?

You avoided my challenge on public college rankings by talking about middle school math scores in Ohio.
NOW you want me to read blog posts you made about the Steel Dossier?
You'll try anything to avoid discussing actual rankings won't you?

On second thought I agree with your decision - you REALLY didn't belong in the UC system and I'm thrilled you left.

I double checked the rankings for multiple services and UC did rank first when you include the graduate school programs. Of course, there are serious problems with the undergraduate programs and with the medical school at ucla. So, the University of California system does have a number one ranking but it is declining. Nothing for the current citizens of California to be proud of. Berkeley and the University of California San Diego have serious problems with their undergraduate math students, which are obviously the result of admitting minorities who have no business being there. At UCLA apparently it is so bad that they don't even release studies showing how their undergraduate students are generally doing in math.

 

[DailyBuck7]

It's pretty telling that instead of answering the question you say that lists aren't reliable then pivot to middle school test scores.

Maybe if you'd have gone thru the UC system you'd be better at this.

You got me thinking about how great and efficient public instruction is in California and how much University of California graduates undoubtedly contribute to that. Isn't it wonderful that it costs only $750,000 to construct the toilet for the homeless in San francisco. Also, isn't the progress on the high speed rail and the low cost associated with it something for California to be proud of, which is undoubtedly been helped by University of California graduates. Just think, the bond issue for the high-speed rail was passed in 2008 and isn't it wonderful how much progress has been made since then.

California has made so much progress over the last 20 years that you must be really proud. And, just think how much University of California graduates have contributed to all of the progress that California has made.

 

[BrainVision]

I double checked the rankings for multiple services and UC did rank first when you include the graduate school programs. Of course, there are serious problems with the undergraduate programs and with the medical school at ucla. So, the University of California system does have a number one ranking but it is declining. Nothing for the current citizens of California to be proud of. Berkeley and the University of California San Diego have serious problems with their undergraduate math students, which are obviously the result of admitting minorities who have no business being there. At UCLA apparently it is so bad that they don't even release studies showing how their undergraduate students are generally doing in math.

Just so everybody is clear: you are currently denigrating the #1-, #2-, and #6-ranked public universities in the U.S. Those universities are also ranked #15, #17, and #29 out of all universities in the U.S. No other public university in the nation comes close, and there is no indication that any other public university is even catching up.

As a current citizen of California and a UCLA alumnus and faculty member, I am quite proud of the UC.

 

[BelemNole]

I double checked the rankings for multiple services and UC did rank first when you include the graduate school programs. Of course, there are serious problems with the undergraduate programs and with the medical school at ucla. So, the University of California system does have a number one ranking but it is declining. Nothing for the current citizens of California to be proud of. Berkeley and the University of California San Diego have serious problems with their undergraduate math students, which are obviously the result of admitting minorities who have no business being there. At UCLA apparently it is so bad that they don't even release studies showing how their undergraduate students are generally doing in math.

So....I was right.

That's a lot of posts to just say that.

I posted "best in the country" and you suggested I was joking when in FACT I was not joking and your comment was silly.

Thanks.

 

[BrainVision]

California has made so much progress over the last 20 years that you must be really proud. And, just think how much University of California graduates have contributed to all of the progress that California has made.

I am very proud of the progress that California has made over the last 20 years, and I am proud of the contributions made by my fellow UC graduates.

I do not understand why you are so persistent in your attacks on my university and state, but I have to share that I do not find those attacks to be persuasive in the least.

 

[BelemNole]

You got me thinking about how great and efficient public instruction is in California and how much University of California graduates undoubtedly contribute to that. Isn't it wonderful that it costs only $750,000 to construct the toilet for the homeless in San francisco. Also, isn't the progress on the high speed rail and the low cost associated with it something for California to be proud of, which is undoubtedly been helped by University of California graduates. Just think, the bond issue for the high-speed rail was passed in 2008 and isn't it wonderful how much progress has been made since then.

California has made so much progress over the last 20 years that you must be really proud. And, just think how much University of California graduates have contributed to all of the progress that California has made.

It should come as no surprised to anyone reading along in this thread that you are wrong again.
The actual cost of the toilet was less than half the value you quoted.

As for the HSR, I fully support it. It will be of great benefit to the state when it opens.

I'm absolutely proud of the progress CA has made in the last 20 years, thanks. It's not the continued degradation of 90 years old brick buildings like you have in Ohio, but we can't all live in the rust belt.

 

[DailyBuck7]

It should come as no surprised to anyone reading along in this thread that you are wrong again.
The actual cost of the toilet was less than half the value you quoted.

As for the HSR, I fully support it. It will be of great benefit to the state when it opens.

I'm absolutely proud of the progress CA has made in the last 20 years, thanks. It's not the continued degradation of 90 years old brick buildings like you have in Ohio, but we can't all live in the rust belt.

No, the original cost of the toilet was estimated to be 1.7 million. You are wrong and stupid again. Even if it was $375,000, that is still ridiculous. You live in some sort of weird fantasy world.

 

[BelemNole]

No, the original cost of the toilet was estimated to be 1.7 million. You are wrong and stupid again. Even if it was $375,000, that is still ridiculous. You live in some sort of weird fantasy world.

So you agree that the cost was not $1.7 million and actually less than 20% of that?

Great, it's nice when you admit you're wrong. Just wish it didn't take this long each time.

 

[DailyBuck7]

So you agree that the cost was not $1.7 million and actually less than 20% of that?

Great, it's nice when you admit you're wrong. Just wish it didn't take this long each time.

Why don't you take some reading lessons before you post. I didn't say it cost 1.7 million. Go ahead and post whatever additional stupid, inaccurate things you have to say. I'm not going to waste my time responding to you anymore.

 

[Moogy]

I was a freshman at UC Santa Barbara, when you had to be in the top 12% to get in and I transferred out after freshman yr. My daughter is a sophomore at Ohio State and was accepted at several UC campuses a couple of years ago. Maybe if UC leaders weren't so woke and delusional they would be better at their jobs and wouldn't need to provide remedial math classes for large numbers of students.

Typical Buck ... toss out random anecdotal facts that don't prove anything (and often times are wrong or misleading) ... then raise hands in victory.

Why did your daughter bother applying to the UC system if it was so awful and you hate it so much?

 

[Moogy]

I'll admit, if there's an article in the thread starter, I didn't read it ... my kid considered UMich, but ultimately didn't go because its CS (especially AI) wasn't as good as other programs, and the cost OOS was outrageous, compared to these better programs. But it's still a top notch school ... my one concern is how this pertains to kids who have AP credits allowing them to "skip" most of their typical frosh courses, meaning they could be taking more meaningful courses for their major in their first semester on campus ... do they get the same P/F system for all classes?

Other than that, it's not really a big deal. I'm a numbers guy ... and I like comparing numbers, so I'd rather they just stick to "real" grades ... but I know that our high school did away with class rank, for instance, to reduce the supposed stress of trying to be #1, and while it's not my preferred method of handling the situation, it doesn't seem to have had any adverse consequences so far.

Yeah, there's a lot of shiznit to get used to in that first semester, and I remember a lot of kids feeling like they were cooked before year 1 was up, just because they made some bad choices their first semester or two, trying to find their way and handle their new-found independence, so this could help ...

 

[BrainVision]

It should come as no surprised to anyone reading along in this thread that you are wrong again.
The actual cost of the toilet was less than half the value you quoted.

As for the HSR, I fully support it. It will be of great benefit to the state when it opens.

I'm absolutely proud of the progress CA has made in the last 20 years, thanks. It's not the continued degradation of 90 years old brick buildings like you have in Ohio, but we can't all live in the rust belt.

We had an entire thread on that toilet, and he knows that it did not cost anywhere close to $750K to install it. I do not know why he is so fixated on attacking California and the UC, but it's worth noting that he decided to do so again in this thread, which is about the University of Michigan.

 

[DailyBuck7]

We had an entire thread on that toilet, and he knows that it did not cost anywhere close to $750K to install it. I do not know why he is so fixated on attacking California and the UC, but it's worth noting that he decided to do so again in this thread, which is about the University of Michigan.

It cost something like $350,000 out of pocket and $400,000 gift from a private party. So, the actual cost of the materials and labor was $750,000. For some reason, you want to ignore the gift which cannot be expected for every toilet that is constructed. Even if it was $350,000 that is still ridiculous and maybe $340,000 above what it should cost. However, for woke Californians that is par for the course.

 

[Moogy]

I am very proud of the progress that California has made over the last 20 years, and I am proud of the contributions made by my fellow UC graduates.

I do not understand why you are so persistent in your attacks on my university and state, but I have to share that I do not find those attacks to be persuasive in the least.

He attacks anything that's superior to him, if it disagrees with him. And he does it in the most ridiculous manner, as he's done here. It stems from him going to terrible schools (I think it was Bowling Green for undergrad), and then feeling jealous of smart kids. He extended that to his kids, where he allegedly didn't let them attend good schools, because he thought said schools would warp their minds ... so he'd attack Yale, and similar level institutions, on the basis of something as insane as "they let Hillary Clinton speak there, and she's a criminal liar, so they have lost all credibility as an educational institution." You know, reasonable stuff like that. My guess is, they just couldn't get in. So he built up this whole spiel about how the bad schools are really better than the good schools.

 

[BrainVision]

It cost something like $350,000 out of pocket and $400,000 gift from a private party. So, the actual cost of the materials and labor was $750,000. For some reason, you want to ignore the gift which cannot be expected for every toilet that is constructed. Even if it was $350,000 that is still ridiculous and maybe $340,000 above what it should cost. However, for woke Californians that is par for the course.

We are not discussing every toilet that is constructed. We are discussing the Noe Valley toilet that you referenced in the previous thread and in this thread, not every toilet that can be expected to be constructed. I am not ignoring anything. The documented cost to the city for installing that toilet was approximately $200K. That is simply a statement of the facts (about a toilet in San Francisco being discussed in a thread about grading at the University of Michigan).

 

[BelemNole]

It cost something like $350,000 out of pocket and $400,000 gift from a private party. So, the actual cost of the materials and labor was $750,000. For some reason, you want to ignore the gift which cannot be expected for every toilet that is constructed. Even if it was $350,000 that is still ridiculous and maybe $340,000 above what it should cost. However, for woke Californians that is par for the course.

lol, you claim both that the gift of the prefab building was worth $400k and then say that it's ridiculous that it cost that much. Are you saying that the gift WAS or WASN'T worth $400k? And if it was, how was California at fault?

 

[DailyBuck7]

We are not discussing every toilet that is constructed. We are discussing the Noe Valley toilet that you referenced in the previous thread and in this thread, not every toilet that can be expected to be constructed. I am not ignoring anything. The documented cost to the city for installing that toilet was approximately $200K. That is simply a statement of the facts (about a toilet in San Francisco being discussed in a thread about grading at the University of Michigan).

I looked it up. The private donation was $425,000 and the city paid $200,000 out of pocket. I was apparently off by $125,000 on a public toilet. I am talking about the regulatory cost and building cost of toilets in San Francisco and the regulatory cost and building cost is $625,000 which is outlandish to me but apparently is okay for you. It is funny to me that you even defend $200,000 which is outlandish. Of course, the original estimate was 1.7 million, which is also outlandish and evidence of how ridiculous the regulatory climate is in San francisco.

 

[Moogy]

Well, my first semester at school they brought us all into a big auditorium and gave us the speech to look left/right - that those kids wouldn't be there next year. It seemed to be a thing of pride that they winnowed out 2/3 of the freshman class back then.

You sure you weren't in some kind of concentration camp?

I think you're misremembering ... the old trope is "look to your left, look to your right ... statistically, one of these students won't be here next year." No school has ever been at a 2/3 attrition rate ... unless, perhaps, it's some kind of open-enrollment situation.

 

[BelemNole]

You sure you weren't in some kind of concentration camp?

I think you're misremembering ... the old trope is "look to your left, look to your right ... statistically, one of these students won't be here next year." No school has ever been at a 2/3 attrition rate ... unless, perhaps, it's some kind of open-enrollment situation.

Well, it was Lubbock - so similar to a concentration camp.

You may be right, it was 40 odd years ago.

 

[BrainVision]

I looked it up. The private donation was $425,000 and the city paid $200,000 out of pocket. I was apparently off by $125,000 on a public toilet. I am talking about the regulatory cost and building cost of toilets in San Francisco and the regulatory cost and building cost is $625,000 which is outlandish to me but apparently is okay for you. It is funny to me that you even defend $200,000 which is outlandish. Of course, the original estimate was 1.7 million, which is also outlandish and evidence of how ridiculous the regulatory climate is in San francisco.

Yes, the city of San Francisco paid $200K to install a new toilet in the Noe Valley public park, and I am, indeed, okay with that.

 

[Rahskie]

No, it just isn’t something that bothers me. It’s one semester, and if anything I question why Michigan is rolling it out for just one of its colleges.

I have kids out of, in and approaching college so have a sense of what students deal with these days. Yes, we did things different back in our day, but we also had it much easier in many respects IMO.

I have never heard of the first semester of college referred to as a weeding out period. College isn’t SEAL school - schools aren’t trying to make kids fail out. They want them to succeed so if they think this will help the transition that’s up to them.

Ha, then you never took engineering at Clemson where Chemistry 101 was DEFINITELY a weed out course.

 

[RockyMtNole]

Ha, then you never took engineering at Clemson where Chemistry 101 was DEFINITELY a weed out course.

Weed out of school or a science major?

 

[BrianNole777]

I was a freshman at UC Santa Barbara, when you had to be in the top 12% to get in and I transferred out after freshman yr. My daughter is a sophomore at Ohio State and was accepted at several UC campuses a couple of years ago. Maybe if UC leaders weren't so woke and delusional they would be better at their jobs and wouldn't need to provide remedial math classes for large numbers of students.

Where did you transfer and why?

UC Santa Barbara seems like a nice campus.

 

[BrianNole777]

I am very proud of the progress that California has made over the last 20 years, and I am proud of the contributions made by my fellow UC graduates.

I do not understand why you are so persistent in your attacks on my university and state, but I have to share that I do not find those attacks to be persuasive in the least.

Which UC campuses are the nicest, in your view?

I've never been to Cali..

 

[DailyBuck7]

Where did you transfer and why?

UC Santa Barbara seems like a nice campus.

UC Santa Barbara is admittedly beautiful, but I split my time between Ohio and California because my father was a teaching golf pro and I always felt more comfortable and liked Ohio better. There was a lot of drug usage at UC Santa Barbara and they also had riots there. Transferred to bowling Green Ohio pretty much because I just felt comfortable in Northwest ohio. I will comment that even though UC Santa Barbara going by grades and standardized testing probably had higher standards than Bowling Green, OH at that time I didn't notice much difference at all between the quality of students on each campus. My guess is that bowling Green has fallen behind at this point in time to a lot of places.

To sum it up, I didn't like the drugs, the riots (very stupid students set off firecrackers when the national guard was on campus and armed. I thought these people were too stupid for me), and I didn't like the high expenses in California even then.

 

[BrianNole777]

UC Santa Barbara is admittedly beautiful, but I split my time between Ohio and California because my father was a teaching golf pro and I always felt more comfortable and liked Ohio better. There was a lot of drug usage at UC Santa Barbara and they also had riots there. Transferred to bowling Green Ohio pretty much because I just felt comfortable in Northwest ohio. I will comment that even though UC Santa Barbara going by grades and standardized testing probably had higher standards than Bowling Green, OH at that time I didn't notice much difference at all between the quality of students on each campus. My guess is that bowling Green has fallen behind at this point in time to a lot of places.

To sum it up, I didn't like the drugs, the riots (very stupid students set off firecrackers when the national guard was on campus and armed. I thought these people were too stupid for me), and I didn't like the high expenses in California even then.

What year was that?

 

[AndreWoolridgeB10MVP]

As for the HSR, I fully support it. It will be of great benefit to the state when it opens.

As lacking in evidence, and as delusional, as your "non-binary" daughter.

 

[DailyBuck7]

What year was that?

It was a long time ago. You can look up the burning of the Bank of America in Isla Vista at UCSB where one person was killed and the national guard was called.

 

[BrainVision]

Which UC campuses are the nicest, in your view?

I've never been to Cali..

UC Berkeley is a shockingly gorgeous and impressive campus. The view from the Campanile across campus to San Francisco and the Golden Gate Bridge is one of the most impressive experiences one can have on a college campus. UCLA is next, and I think it has the best architecture and overall layout of any of the UC campuses. UCLA is also the smallest of the campuses (other than UCSF), which facilitates its sightlines and sense of being fully connected within itself. A lot of people would probably rank UCLA's campus ahead of UCB's on the that basis, but I give Berkeley the nod.

UCSC is located in the middle of the redwoods and has a beautiful hillside view of the ocean. The architecture is interesting, but it feels less cohesive than UCB and UCLA. UCSB has an amazing location with beautiful views all around, but the campus architecture is lackluster and underwhelming. UCSD has interesting architecture and is well landscaped, but it also feels a bit too disconnected and spread out for my taste. UCI, UCR, and UCD are pretty interchangeable and generic to me. They are fine as suburban state university campuses, but I don't think that they have the sense of place and character of the aforementioned campuses. UC Merced is so new and so small that it feels much more like a small public college campus than a university campus. They are growing it intentionally and thoughtfully, but it is going to be a long time before it competes with the other campuses.

UCSF and UC Law SF are fully urban campuses and are fully integrated into the city. Only UCSF's Parnassus campus has any type of campus/academic feel, and even then it's much more of an interesting hospital campus than a university campus.

 

[SoProudNole]

You sure you weren't in some kind of concentration camp?

I think you're misremembering ... the old trope is "look to your left, look to your right ... statistically, one of these students won't be here next year." No school has ever been at a 2/3 attrition rate ... unless, perhaps, it's some kind of open-enrollment situation.

You missed a couple other posts for context.

 

[Gibbs_dontbanmetom]

But the dems are the educated party. They can’t even take a test without having a mental breakdown. Probably why they can’t tell the difference between male and female and think they can be either one.