OT: Could AC actually be on the verge of making comeback?

[newell138]

I’ve never thought so but after seeing this video, especially the 2nd half I have hope. Hundreds of homes being built in an area that’s been nothing but vacant lots for years I think maybe it’s time. Reminds me a little of the Asbury Park redevelopment in its infancy. Hope so. Would be good for the area. I’m sure the usual suspects are against it as most of it is not going to be low income but that’s not going to fix the city.

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

Great video

I jogged down to that area less than year ago and was surprised with the open space and how nice it looked.

Curious what the smallest of the new builds are going to sell for in that video, next to lighthouse.

The little neighborhood behind Back Bay Alehouse and Gilchrist has always looked good recently also.

 

[yesrutgers01]

I have been hearing from more people starting to go back to the casinos as well.
building a nice community in the nearby vicinity is brilliant. You can still do affordable housing but AC needs to get back to feeling like a nice tourist destination but also needs to feel safe.

 

[seansherm]

Needs to happen. Only people that will be unhappy are those in the towns just west, which is where the lower income people will be pushed to.

 

[RU206]

Good news. I spoke to a guy a few years back that is part of a development company working exclusively in AC. Not sure if it's the same company as the video. Basically, almost every other shore town is extremely expensive already, and this is the only spot where your money can go further, and I guess high rates of return.

 

[newell138]

Ryan Homes and Hovnanian building there is a good sign

 

[seansherm]

Ryan Homes and Hovnanian building there is a good sign

It would mean more if Ryan Homes upper end sister company NV Homes was there, but yeah, still good.

 

[kupuna133]

Ryan Homes and Hovnanian building there is a good sign

Good sign for development. But bad sign for quality construction.

 

[newell138]

Needs to happen. Only people that will be unhappy are those in the towns just west, which is where the lower income people will be pushed to.

Well yea but if you aren’t contributing to society then maybe you don’t get to live where you want. It does suck if those same people get pushed to your town but that’s how capitalism works. You work hard and you get nice things. No work, less choice in life

 

[bac2therac]

I will say its not coming back

Casinos are dead besides Borgota. You can gamble on your phone. This same discussion was on the board over a decade when Bot was singing the praises of a revival headline by the Revel. Where are the people going to come from. Asbury revitilization started with the gays and the nyc and north jersey money rolled in. Where is AC gping to pull from. The rich in Philly are in Avalon Stone Harbor etc

 

[Rutgers Chris]

“Everything dies, baby, that’s a fact. But maybe everything that does someday comes back.”

 

[kupuna133]

I will say its not coming back

Casinos are dead besides Borgota. You can gamble on your phone. This same discussion was on the board over a decade when Bot was singing the praises of a revival headline by the Revel. Where are the people going to come from. Asbury revitilization started with the gays and the nyc and north jersey money rolled in. Where is AC gping to pull from. The rich in Philly are in Avalon Stone Harbor etc

Rented in Avalon from 1997-2006ish. Was with friends (Philly and cape may county real estate investors) a couple of weeks ago discussing where and what is the next investment move down there. Just like the Monmouth County shore people are getting priced out and expanding their options in towns that have been forever overlooked. People that wanted Sea Girt/Spring Lake are now in Bradley and Avon. People down in Avalon/Stone Harbor are in Wildwood crest and Sea Isle. Ventnor and Longport are getting overflow from Cape May county as well. Not saying it’s going to happen overnight. But I would not bet against portions of AC having a nice jump up in pricing. And you mentioned Asbury, gays and NYC. Well largest increase in ownership in AC is alternative lifestyle and WestChester county.

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

Ocean Casino has been really kicking ***

It's a real nice setup with lots of indoor and outdoor places to hang out when not on casino floor. Also they are getting good comedians and bands.

 

[kupuna133]

Ocean Casino has been really kicking ***

It's a real nice setup with lots of indoor and outdoor places to hang out when not on casino floor. Also they are getting good comedians and bands.

What’s funny is last time down there. Ocean and Hard Rock were mobbed and Borgata was slow.

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

I don't think July #s are out yet

 

[newell138]

I will say its not coming back

Casinos are dead besides Borgota. You can gamble on your phone. This same discussion was on the board over a decade when Bot was singing the praises of a revival headline by the Revel. Where are the people going to come from. Asbury revitilization started with the gays and the nyc and north jersey money rolled in. Where is AC gping to pull from. The rich in Philly are in Avalon Stone Harbor etc

Thats the whole point of the inlet redevelopment. If you watched you would see they are trying to build a nice little beach town/neighborhood so whatever the casinos do is irrelevant. They want families to buy to either live, rent or just spend the summer. The entire NJ coastline does quite well with no casinos so no reason AC can't do the same. The boardwalk is around 7 miles long and well maintained. They just need to clean up their act and it starts with people buying and investing in the town and not just relying on the town to take care of them

 

[RU206]

Rented in Avalon from 1997-2006ish. Was with friends (Philly and cape may county real estate investors) a couple of weeks ago discussing where and what is the next investment move down there. Just like the Monmouth County shore people are getting priced out and expanding their options in towns that have been forever overlooked. People that wanted Sea Girt/Spring Lake are now in Bradley and Avon. People down in Avalon/Stone Harbor are in Wildwood crest and Sea Isle. Ventnor and Longport are getting overflow from Cape May county as well. Not saying it’s going to happen overnight. But I would not bet against portions of AC having a nice jump up in pricing. And you mentioned Asbury, gays and NYC. Well largest increase in ownership in AC is alternative lifestyle and WestChester county.

Yup. Drove by a house for sale in Bradley last night. $2M. This pricing is insane. The days of a bunch of college kids renting a cheap house for the summer are gone in most towns. Maybe Seaside Heights but that’s getting built up as well.

 

[S_Janowski]

Good news. I spoke to a guy a few years back that is part of a development company working exclusively in AC. Not sure if it's the same company as the video. Basically, almost every other shore town is extremely expensive already, and this is the only spot where your money can go further, and I guess high rates of return.

The same people as DEVCO in New Brunswick (led by Chris Paladino) are behind AC DEVCO and were been leading some of the efforts a few years ago (Stockton expansion).

I believe most of the development happening now closer to the inlet is being done by private developers.

There are so many empty lots, or lots in need of severe redevelopment just feet from the Ocean. It was only been a matter of time before things started changing a major money to pour in.

I frequent Brigantine and pass through AC every now and then. It’s still a complete dump and I wouldn’t go near the casino / boardwalk area once it gets dark. I did notice the uptick and development this past Spring as they were building brand new upscale condos / townhouses just a couple blocks from the boardwalk.

I think as time goes on the casinos will continue to struggle and eventually more of them will go out of business, get demolished and lead to even more investment and redevelopment.

Other than the loss of jobs and some revenue for the state the loss of some more casinos wouldn’t be the worst thing to help clean up a lot of the riff raff and blight.

 

[dconifer0]

The city has a lot of issues that will continue to hold it back, as we all know. I'm always the first to say that it's never going to Beverly Hills, and I understand why people choose to visit other beach towns instead of Atlantic City. But as a resident, it's hard not to feel good about the recent development projects (which of course did not spring up overnight).

I bought my place in the Chelsea neighborhood (southernmost section, south of "the monument") almost exactly ten years ago, and according to all the real estate web sites, it has more than doubled in value. I had been thinking "I'll believe it when I see it" until August 2025, when the sale price of the pad next door confirmed it (and dang if I don't love my new neighbors). So things are already trending up in parts of the city, at least.

The casinos couldn't care less about the development of the city. They do provide a lot of jobs, which is of course important. But ultimately if the city comes back it won't be because of anything the casinos did (which Newell has already said).

Ha ha, my Maryland friends were up over the weekend for our annual gathering. They're surprised every summer when I tell them that most New Jersey natives hate the place and have nothing good to say about it. Maybe I feel differently because I'm from somewhere else.

 

[RU206]

The same people as DEVCO in New Brunswick (led by Chris Paladino) are behind AC DEVCO and were been leading some of the efforts a few years ago (Stockton expansion).

I believe most of the development happening now closer to the inlet is being done by private developers.

There are so many empty lots, or lots in need of severe redevelopment just feet from the Ocean. It was only been a matter of time before things started changing a major money to pour in.

I frequent Brigantine and pass through AC every now and then. It’s still a complete dump and I wouldn’t go near the casino / boardwalk area once it gets dark. I did notice the uptick and development this past Spring as they were building brand new upscale condos / townhouses just a couple blocks from the boardwalk.

I think as time goes on the casinos will continue to struggle and eventually more of them will go out of business, get demolished and lead to even more investment and redevelopment.

Other than the loss of jobs and some revenue for the state the loss of some more casinos wouldn’t be the worst thing to help clean up a lot of the riff raff and blight.

Brigantine prices have jumped significantly since 2020. Prior to that it was affordable.

 

[S_Janowski]

Brigantine prices have jumped significantly since 2020. Prior to that it was affordable.

Yep.

Brigantine was one of / the most affordable beach towns south of LBI. While that’s probably still the case, the money and development that has pumped into the island since COVID has been significant.

Every lot is getting gobbled up and every small / old house is getting torn down in place of a house 5x + the size.

It’s still a hidden gem imo. Not much to do (which I love) and really great beaches.

Close enough to AC, Ocean City, Cape May etc.

I just wish the food / restaurant scene was better for how big the island is.

 

[S_Janowski]

Also the boom in Ventnor / Margate / Brigantine the last few years has to be good for Atlantic City. More potential visitors with $ and more investment potential.

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

My wife and I were looking for something for years in Ventnor but we waited too long

 

[Bueller]

I see/hear a lot about Vegas chasing people away. Private equity got in there and once free things because expensive. $15 buffets became $100. Unexpected mystery charges (a PE tell) came from all directions (a PE tell) . Shows and rooms are up, cheaper games are up. Maybe people would cut the longer trip and go AC. I never had a desire to gamble or go to a casino but I know some people like the scene. Just hope the cruise ship crowd isn't in the news

"The Casino industry, especially in Vegas, has forgotten the statement by Amarillo Slim : "You can sheer a sheep may times, but you can skin him only once." The Mob Knew that, but the modern Corporate Casinos have forgotten that advice because they are so devoted to greed."

This guy explains things in well in first minutes

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

Also the boom in Ventnor / Margate / Brigantine the last few years has to be good for Atlantic City. More potential visitors with $ and more investment potential.

Yup I have talked to many people from Ventnor and Margate over past few years at the good non casino happy hour spots (Knife/Fork, Docks, Back Bay), and at drinking spots as well like Wonder Bar, even Tony's Balt.

 

[Knight Shift]

I’ve never thought so but after seeing this video, especially the 2nd half I have hope. Hundreds of homes being built in an area that’s been nothing but vacant lots for years I think maybe it’s time. Reminds me a little of the Asbury Park redevelopment in its infancy. Hope so. Would be good for the area. I’m sure the usual suspects are against it as most of it is not going to be low income but that’s not going to fix the city.

Who does this guy think he is? Bruce Springsteen?

Now our luck may have died and our love may be cold
But with you forever I'll stay
We're going out where the sand's turning to gold
Put on your stockings, baby, 'cause the night's getting cold
And everything dies, baby, that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back

Now I've been looking for a job, but it's hard to find
Down here it's just winners and losers
That don't get caught on the wrong side of that line
Well, I'm tired of coming out on this losing end
So, honey, last night I met this guy, and I'm gonna do a little favor for him

Well, I guess everything dies, baby, that's a fact
But maybe everything that dies someday comes back
Put your hair up nice, fix yourself up pretty
And meet me tonight in Atlantic City

 

[S_Janowski]

Yup I have talked to many people from Ventnor and Margate over past few years at the good non casino happy hour spots (Knife/Fork, Docks, Back Bay), and at drinking spots as well like Wonder Bar, even Tony's Balt.

You forgot Vagabonds!

 

[EddieWilsonLives]

Also interesting when I was out for a walk last week down there walked down TN Ave to see the container shopping area they just broke ground on. Retail and food in 20 of these, kind of cool. Almost right across from TN Ave beer hall ( and right near my favorite breakfast Perry's diner)

 

[newell138]

Yup. Drove by a house for sale in Bradley last night. $2M. This pricing is insane. The days of a bunch of college kids renting a cheap house for the summer are gone in most towns. Maybe Seaside Heights but that’s getting built up as well.

Those summers we rented a house in Belmar with all my RU buddies were the best In the late 80s we could get a 3BR for about $10k for the whole summer. It worked out to be about $100 a week each. Less than we spent at the bars

 

[newell138]

I’m seeing a few lots a block from the beach for $100k. That’s a steal anywhere else in NJ

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Atlantic-City_NJ_08401_M58570-26071?cid=soc_shares_fs_ldp_Pri

 

[T2Kplus20]

I’ve never thought so but after seeing this video, especially the 2nd half I have hope. Hundreds of homes being built in an area that’s been nothing but vacant lots for years I think maybe it’s time. Reminds me a little of the Asbury Park redevelopment in its infancy. Hope so. Would be good for the area. I’m sure the usual suspects are against it as most of it is not going to be low income but that’s not going to fix the city.

Are there crooks still running the city? That's all you need to know.

 

[T2Kplus20]

Rented in Avalon from 1997-2006ish. Was with friends (Philly and cape may county real estate investors) a couple of weeks ago discussing where and what is the next investment move down there. Just like the Monmouth County shore people are getting priced out and expanding their options in towns that have been forever overlooked. People that wanted Sea Girt/Spring Lake are now in Bradley and Avon. People down in Avalon/Stone Harbor are in Wildwood crest and Sea Isle. Ventnor and Longport are getting overflow from Cape May county as well. Not saying it’s going to happen overnight. But I would not bet against portions of AC having a nice jump up in pricing. And you mentioned Asbury, gays and NYC. Well largest increase in ownership in AC is alternative lifestyle and WestChester county.

Prices in Avalon/Stone Harbor have gone insane since COVID. Nice houses in SH have gone from $2-3m to $6-8m in a matter of 5 years or so. We will continue to rent each summer, but it will be irresponsible to buy anymore.

 

[T2Kplus20]

My wife and I were looking for something for years in Ventnor but we waited too long

Same story for us with Stone Harbor. We could have bought pre-COVID but wanted to wait until the little one was older. Once COVID hit, the NJ shore rocket ship took off and never looked back (as of now).

 

[T2Kplus20]

I’m seeing a few lots a block from the beach for $100k. That’s a steal anywhere else in NJ

https://www.realtor.com/realestateandhomes-detail/Atlantic-City_NJ_08401_M58570-26071?cid=soc_shares_fs_ldp_Pri

How is the OC doing? Once thing I noticed, most neighborhoods don't have any pools! LOL. I guess the houses are too close together in most places.

 

[seansherm]

Yup. Drove by a house for sale in Bradley last night. $2M. This pricing is insane. The days of a bunch of college kids renting a cheap house for the summer are gone in most towns. Maybe Seaside Heights but that’s getting built up as well.

Think the one down the street from my old house, on 4th, is closer to $3M than $2M. There is one on Park Place for like $1.7M

 

[Jerseylegends]

All of nj as a result of being in the middle of the nyc-dc commuter corridor. All areas in between these two cities will be developed in the next 30 to 50 years...I'm actually thinking about Delaware, retiree's like it, a couple universities, some "beaches"..I like to gamble, may take a swing on something near University of Delaware or something near the beaches there..

 

[Knight Shift]

All of nj as a result of being in the middle of the nyc-dc commuter corridor. All areas in between these two cities will be developed in the next 30 to 50 years...I'm actually thinking about Delaware, retiree's like it, a couple universities, some "beaches"..I like to gamble, may take a swing on something near University of Delaware or something near the beaches there..

Less expensive than NJ ( ask @yesrutgers01 ), know several people who have recently moved down there. Taxes are a lot lower than NJ, and it is getting filled up by Jersey escapees.

 

[Jerseylegends]

Less expensive than NJ ( ask @yesrutgers01 ), know several people who have recently moved down there. Taxes are a lot lower than NJ, and it is getting filled up by Jersey escapees.

Yep, a lot of older people in my family moved down there. Something about their pension not being taxed or something like that if I remember correctly..

 

[yesrutgers01]

All of nj as a result of being in the middle of the nyc-dc commuter corridor. All areas in between these two cities will be developed in the next 30 to 50 years...I'm actually thinking about Delaware, retiree's like it, a couple universities, some "beaches"..I like to gamble, may take a swing on something near University of Delaware or something near the beaches there..

Less expensive than NJ ( ask @yesrutgers01 ), know several people who have recently moved down there. Taxes are a lot lower than NJ, and it is getting filled up by Jersey escapees.

Yep, a lot of older people in my family moved down there. Something about their pension not being taxed or something like that if I remember correctly..

we are 18 months into our move to Delaware from Bergen Co. NJ...I am in Middletown about 15 minutes away from the University of Delaware and not far off the NJ border. Perfect compromise for still being near family, business and getting the "benefits" of moving here.

This what we found- First, yes, you get more home for your dollar, but that gap is closing very quickly. Homes here are now similar or maybe even a little more than Southern NJ homes.
Property tax- main reason for the move- property taxes here are about 25% of most NJ areas. And, depending on your age and length of time living in Delaware, you start to qualify for reduced "school" taxes, so the overall property tax gets a major kicker to a homeowners benefit there. But...because so many younger families are now moving into Delaware, so much more infrastructure is being built- huge school systems, fire departments, polices, infrastructure, etc...we are seeing some property taxes going over $10k.

Cost of living- while there are no sales taxes- All that means- is the price on the tag is what you pay. I have noticed that prices are higher so, your cost is still about the same, tax or not. And services- if you need a home repair or service - there is very little competition so, prices are at least 25% higher than anything I ever saw in NJ and you sit on a waiting list for months.
Hair, nails, etc...for my hair- no big deal, $20-25 cut but for women- cost of their hair, nails etc- almost double then what they can get in NJ.

Pensions- no idea as neither my wife or I get a significant pension. But what I can tell you- car insurance is almost double. And if you provide your own health insurance and not yet on medicare- it is the worst experience you will ever deal with. You are pretty much forced to use Marketplace - you cannot just call Horizon, Cigna, Aetna etc as an individual like I could living in NJ. They only provide their coverages through corporate healthcare plans or marketplace. and then it is very limiting.

I will tell you if I were going to make the decision knowing what I know now vs 18 months ago, I am not 100% sure I would do it.

 

[Knight Shift]

Yep, a lot of older people in my family moved down there. Something about their pension not being taxed or something like that if I remember correctly..

Not 100% sure, and it can be looked up, but I know at least police (and probably fire) pensions are not taxed in Delaware. That is a huge benefit in addition to the property tax savings. @yesrutgers01 comments are interesting on sales tax vs. cost, availability of contractors, health insurance, etc.

Years ago, in or experience, "they" always get you one way or another. Indiana had insanely high automobile registration costs (that may have changed for better or worse), and North Carolina had an "intangibles" tax, meaning they taxed your mutual funds and things like that--I forget the particulars, and that too may have changed for better or worse.

I'm reminded of the song the Taxman:

Let me tell you how it will be
There's one for you, nineteen for me
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah, I'm the taxman

Should five per cent appear too small
Be thankful I don't take it all
Cos I'm the taxman, yeah I'm the taxman