Out of State Students
- Thread starter o_Brokerdawg
- Start date
Glad to see we are sticking with what our purpose is, to educate Mississippians.
Yeah it's going GREAT. Academic reputation as well as student population growth has steadily declined under Keenum.
Read the graphic carefully… that’s not just out of state kids ..it’s out of region kids. We need both but maybe it’s not as dire as this looks
Yeah I wouldn't want to go to school with a bunch of kids from Jersey
Our recruiting philosophy is bad, but not because of what this shows. We do a great job at recruiting Birmingham and Houston. We need to do a better job recruiting the best students from Madison, Ocean Springs and Southaven.
We have 6,760 from SREB (Southern) states. Ole Miss has 8,617.
Counties where Ole Miss out recruits us:
Alcorn
Calhoun
Coahoma
DeSoto
Lafayette
Marshall
Panola
Prentiss
Tallahatchee
Tate
Tippah
Tunica
Yalobusha
We win every other county, but Ole Miss is getting the better students. If we are going to play the "We are a Southern university for Southerners" game, we have to win it by getting the best students.
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Slaps up a chart with public universities.
Comments that an already elite private institution, with an already extremely low acceptance rate, and an already existing national footprint, will become the most difficult university to get into in 20 years.
Vandy seems totally unrelated to the trend the chart references, but OK then.
Comments that an already elite private institution, with an already extremely low acceptance rate, and an already existing national footprint, will become the most difficult university to get into in 20 years.
Vandy seems totally unrelated to the trend the chart references, but OK then.
What is your basis for student population growth steadily declining ?
Only one of those counties is significant Desoto. Maybe Lafayette.... yeah good luck. But Desoto is so heavily influenced by Rebs and the media here is all Memphis. Which only covers OM. So lots of OM influence in Desoto county.
I'm not sure what state can do to over come that. More scholarships, more positive press. But in the Memphis area, there is a misconception that OM is an Ivy League school and State is... well not.
Clay has a Vandy law degree so he's very very smart, just read him long enough and he'll tell you so.
Ha, yeah I thought maybe he forced Vandy into the conversation because he went there.
I will pass on the opportunity to read more from him though. It has to be more than a decade since I read stuff from him.
Same....he was okay in his early stages when he was trying to be an SEC version of Bill Simmons from the Page2 days, but has grown increasingly intolerable.
Ive spelled it out dozens of times.
We give almost a third of our merit aid to students with a 22 or below ACT. Ole Miss gives $0 until you get to a 23.
So what happens is Ole Miss is able to give a ton more to students making between a 23-31.
Fix that and we will get better Mississippi students.
Food for thought:
| ACT Range | MSU | UM | UM – MSU |
|---|---|---|---|
| 23–27 | 1,111 | 1,458 | +347 |
| 28–31 | 671 | 697 | +26 |
| 32+ | 398 | 440 | +42 |
A student from Mississippi with a 21-24 ACT and a 3.6+ GPA is guaranteed at least $3,500 at MSU.
A student from Mississippi with a 23 ACT and a 3.6+ GPA is guaranteed at least $3,000 at UM. A 24 adds $500 to even it out with MSU, but MSU is spending a ton more to scholarship those 21-22s.
At a 25 ACT, UM holds steady at $3,500, but MSU gives $5,000 to that 25 student.
At 26 ACT, UM $3,900, MSU $5,000
At 27 ACT, UM $4,250, MSU $5,000
At 28 ACT, UM $5,000, MSU $5,000
So MSU considers a 25 and a 29 the same, while UM gives a little bit more. for each point, saving them scholarship money so they can do this:
At 29 ACT, UM shoots up to $7,500, MSU stays at $5,000
At 30 ACT, UM $8,500, MSU $8,000
At 31 ACT, UM $9,500, MSU $8,000
At 32 ACT, UM $11,500, MSU $8,000
At 33-36 ACT, UM $14,278, MSU $10,500
Thats a significant difference for a high achieving student. I personally believe that if MSU matched Ole Miss' scholarship matrix, MSU would get way better students from in-state, which is what they should be striving for.
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The relationship OM has with Northwest plays apart in this as well with the Northwest Desoto Center.
I don't think this is a viable plan for us, I mean we already on the bottom. May as well accept that and just try and get our student and alumni base as big as possible.
Where are you getting this info? Not disputing it as I don't know, but I historically MSU pulled better students, at least by ACT. I think that was mainly driven by engineering though. Not sure we were really out competing them in general and that may have stopped being true ten years ago for all I know.
I do think the university is somewhat in a no win situation. If we want the best for the university, it's probably not focusing on serving college ready Mississippi high school graduates in general. Although maybe it is. If we could get to a position where we could not admit people that aren't college ready, that would help us a ton I think, although it might hurt enrollment temporarily.
This seems crazy to me. I don't have anything against people making a 21, but who are we competing with for them? It's basically us, Ole Miss, USM, or JUCO. The only reason to give scholarship money to somebody at that level is if we jack up the tuition to try to discourage people with less than a 21 from coming to MSU without going to JUCO first. You probably shouldn't be at MSU as a freshman with a 20 unless your parents are affluent enough that the tuition doesn't matter.
It seems to be so obviously better that I would love to hear the argument for our structure. The only argument I can come up with is "we need warm bodies, and we get more warm bodies for cheaper by giving a small discount to the many, many students that make a 21-24 than by competing for the much smaller number of students that make a better ACT score. From a short term financial perspective, that probably does work out well, but not great for the medium and long term.
Here is the only stat you need: in the last 20+ years our largest year to year enrollment growth was in 2015 and 2016. That tells you the only thing that matters
That‘s not dire. It means we haven’t forgot what the main purpose of a Mississippimpublic university is.
So now that I have a little more time to spell it out, here is the data. Assuming a 3.6 GPA,
State gives $3,000 more scholarships for a 21-22 ACT (Ole Miss gives $0)
State gives $500 more scholarship for a 23 ACT.
Ole Miss and State give the exact same for a 24 ACT.
State gives $1500 more scholarship for a 25 ACT.
State gives $1100 more scholarship for a 26 ACT.
State gives $750 more scholarship for a 27 ACT.
Ole Miss and State give the exact same for a 28 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $2500 more for a 29 ACT.*
Ole Miss gives $500 more for a 30 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $1500 more for a 31 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $3500 more for a 32 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $3778 more for a 33+ ACT.
The 25th-75th percentile ACT scores at both State and Ole Miss are 21-29, with both averaging a 25 (with State technically decimal points higher in average). The average Mississippi student makes a 17.7.
* - The jump to 29 is just good marketing by Ole Miss. It seems out of line because it is. The Mississippi Eminent Scholars Grant (MESG) Is awarded to all MS students with a 29. It's worth $2500 a year. Combined with Ole Miss scholarship at 29, it covers 100% of tuition.
Some more data for you geeks.
State had 14 perfect 36s enroll, Ole Miss had 10, Southern Miss had 1.
State had 156 34-35s, Ole Miss had 101. USM had 40.
Ole Miss had 159 33s, State had 110. USM had 87. JSU and Delta State each had 1.
Ole Miss had 170 32s, State had 118. USM had 52. JSU had 1.
At the other end of the spectrum
Delta State had a 2 ACT enroll.
Valley had an 8.
Ole Miss, State and JSU each had a 9.
Most common (mode) ACT at Mississippi State: 22. Most common at Ole Miss, MUW and USM: 21. Second most common at MSU is a 21, 23 at Ole Miss.
Most common at JSU, Delta State: 16
Most common at Alcorn: 14
Most common at Valley: 15
State gives $3,000 more scholarships for a 21-22 ACT (Ole Miss gives $0)
State gives $500 more scholarship for a 23 ACT.
Ole Miss and State give the exact same for a 24 ACT.
State gives $1500 more scholarship for a 25 ACT.
State gives $1100 more scholarship for a 26 ACT.
State gives $750 more scholarship for a 27 ACT.
Ole Miss and State give the exact same for a 28 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $2500 more for a 29 ACT.*
Ole Miss gives $500 more for a 30 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $1500 more for a 31 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $3500 more for a 32 ACT.
Ole Miss gives $3778 more for a 33+ ACT.
The 25th-75th percentile ACT scores at both State and Ole Miss are 21-29, with both averaging a 25 (with State technically decimal points higher in average). The average Mississippi student makes a 17.7.
* - The jump to 29 is just good marketing by Ole Miss. It seems out of line because it is. The Mississippi Eminent Scholars Grant (MESG) Is awarded to all MS students with a 29. It's worth $2500 a year. Combined with Ole Miss scholarship at 29, it covers 100% of tuition.
Some more data for you geeks.
State had 14 perfect 36s enroll, Ole Miss had 10, Southern Miss had 1.
State had 156 34-35s, Ole Miss had 101. USM had 40.
Ole Miss had 159 33s, State had 110. USM had 87. JSU and Delta State each had 1.
Ole Miss had 170 32s, State had 118. USM had 52. JSU had 1.
At the other end of the spectrum
Delta State had a 2 ACT enroll.
Valley had an 8.
Ole Miss, State and JSU each had a 9.
Most common (mode) ACT at Mississippi State: 22. Most common at Ole Miss, MUW and USM: 21. Second most common at MSU is a 21, 23 at Ole Miss.
Most common at JSU, Delta State: 16
Most common at Alcorn: 14
Most common at Valley: 15
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I still have no idea where this info comes from but for the past 10 years we have known way more Memphis area kids go to State than Ole Miss. At least twice as many. That covers a variety of schools, public and private. Heck, I know of 4 kids just in my neighborhood this year going to State, 1 going to Ole Miss. The media does love Ole Miss for sure around here, but these kids could care less that talk radio or Channel 5 news glazes Ole Miss lol (they don't even know what talk radio is).
Everything I see still shows MSU has a higher ACT average? Is it broken down by county somewhere that shows Ole Miss somehow getting better students from in state but ending up with a lower ACT average?
ETA: Responded before I saw your last post, but basically MSU has 398 students making 32 or above, and Ole Miss has 440, with MSU wining on the highest scores and Ole Miss running up the score with 32s and 33s.
I do think that it should be a priority to match what they offer at 29 and above, even if that is at the expense of eliminating money at 21 or 22 ACT score. I'm not sure what a 32 means anymore as there seems to have been a lot of score inflation. Not sure if that's just from taking super scores or better test prep, but generally the people I knew that made a 32 or better were pretty capable students and could do anything short of theoretical physics and 29 or better put all of your professional schools within reach. Not sure that is as important as pulling entrepreneurs, but I don't know that there is a reliable way to predict which students will do that or to make a huge difference in increasing the chances of being a highly successful entrepreneur, so think our money is probably better spent attracting the closer to sure things.
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