Who is considered the best Phillies catcher all-time?
- Thread starter saturdaysarebetter
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Hmm by any reasonable metric he is as good as any there have been for the phils with the jury still out on JT as he is still playing and * for mccarver as his prime career was with the Redbirds
statistically he's better in runs created 650 and an argument can be made for 'Stosh' Lopata
here are the stats to digest with comps to those who consider the best catchers or all time
so by which metric is he overrated in the pantheon of phils catchers?
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apologies for not adding andy seminick he slots between Libes and Timmy mc
| C | Seminick, Andy | | .243 | .347 | .418 | 93 | 105 | 108 | 23.9 | 7.85 | 79.4 | 4575 | 140 | 26 | 164 | 557 | Fr | | 780 | 583 | Vg/128 | Prone |
He played for those Gene Mauch teams in the 60s.
Smoky Burgess. 9 time All Star. Elite pinch hitter
and played only 3 years for the phils and was an AS only 1 time for them in his 18 year career
they were 3 solid years but not his prime career
Saw Smokey play vs the Phils....he was with the Pirates. They would say you could wake Smokey up at 12:01 am New Years Day and he would jump in the box and give you a line drive.
J.T. Realmuto holds the highest Wins Above Replacement (WAR) among all catchers in Philadelphia Phillies history, according to Baseball-Reference (bWAR). [1, 2]
Because sabermetric databases calculate defensive value and historical framing differently, the all-time leaderboards vary between Baseball-Reference (bWAR) and FanGraphs (fWAR). [1, 2, 3]WAR
Because sabermetric databases calculate defensive value and historical framing differently, the all-time leaderboards vary between Baseball-Reference (bWAR) and FanGraphs (fWAR). [1, 2, 3]WAR
I remember Dalrymple & Boone, Boone was a yr older than me. By the mid-80's I watched very little MLB.
Bobby Wine and Cookie Rojas. Wasn't Rojas the player who once played every position in a game?The days of Wine and Rojas
He knew Jim Bunning and Chris Short, Johnny Calison, Bob White and Richie Allen. To name a few.The days of Wine and Rojas
you’re giving him too much credit. He played every position over the course of his career. I believe 5 players in MLB history have played all 9 positions in one game, but Rojas was not one of them.
The days of Wine and Rojas
The saying was The Plays of Wine and Rojas, which was a takeoff of the song “The Days of Wine and Roses.”
He was behind leiberthal in every matric. Your list. You also did not list realmuto's stats. He is ahead of daulton
Daulton was not that good. One playoff appearance as a Philly. How do you like winning as a metric?
Before dykstra arrived with his magic vitamins daulton was a bum. Daultons first 7 years he had one season over .225 and had a high ov 12 HRs. He picked it up but was an average player. Darren Fletcher put up better numbers.
You also ignored defense. Daulton was not that great. Only threw runners out around 20% as I remember. Not too good. Didn't handle the putching staff well enough to make the playoffs more than once.
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Yea. No.
Missed the playoffs 12 out of 13 years or so.
This is not a popularity contest. The main metric is winning. Daulton is near the bottom of that list.
he is not --try reading it again and i stated JT not listed as he is still playing
but since you may need to read the chart again with both eyes
Dutch's leads Liebs in OBP+ SLG+ HRF BBF RC650 ( the true measure) loses in AVG+ and they are even in OPS all while with LESS Plate appearances
Yawn we are talking the Phillies first of all 2 rings in how many years as a franchise ??? the OP said compare catchers nothing more
but hey you cant even cite the right stats to give Liebs a fighting chance ---- here chew on these
You know what WAR is right? you know what peak WAR is right? how about JAWS (not the shark)
Dutch
Liebs
OOOPS Liebs doesnt even have black ink or grey ink yet dutch does?
Dutch ranks 60th amongst all Catchers Liebs 120 ----in WAR
oh you want to say its about winning and nothing else you know what championship WPA is?
Championship Win Probability Added (cWPA) is an advanced baseball metric that measures how much an individual play or player increases or decreases a team's chances of winning the World Series, expanding the standard single-game Win Probability Added (WPA) to a macro championship scale. [1, 2, 3]
Core Concepts
- Definition: While regular WPA tracks the shift in probability for winning a specific game, cWPA calculates the cumulative or individual impact on the ultimate goal—winning the championship. [1, 2, 3, 4]
- Scale: A cWPA value of 1.0 means a player's actions added 100 percentage points (the equivalent of a guaranteed title shift) to their team's championship odds over a timeframe. [1, 2]
- Context: It functions primarily as a "story stat" to highlight historical greatness or clutch postseason moments rather than a pure indicator of a player's baseline skill. [1, 2]
Dutch is actually ranked has the statistic on his ledger in 1993 he ranked 2nd
Cant seem to find liberthal ranked--- as in he doesnt even have it listed on his ledger-- so tell me how he helped the phils win?
didnt even play for any of these phillies teams yet Dutch did and was ranked 2nd in that statistic for that year
- National League Pennant (NLCS) Winning Years
- 1915: First pennant in franchise history; lost World Series to the Boston Red Sox.
- 1950: The "Whiz Kids" won the pennant; lost World Series to the New York Yankees.
- 1980: Won the pennant and secured the franchise's first World Series title against the Kansas City Royals.
- 1983: Won the pennant; lost World Series to the Baltimore Orioles.
- 1993: "Macho Row" won the pennant against the Atlanta Braves; lost World Series to the Toronto Blue Jays.
- 2008: Won the pennant and captured the franchise's second World Series title against the Tampa Bay Rays.
- 2009: Won back-to-back NL pennants; lost World Series to the New York Yankees.
- 2022: Won the pennant under manager Rob Thomson after defeating the San Diego Padres; lost World Series to the Houston Astros. [1, 2, 3, 4]
OOOPS try not to let your personal bias get in the way of the statistical record
Dont be mad though Chooch and JT don't even register the championship metric despite playing for philles teams that made it the WS
JT when he is done will be the best Phillies catcher as mentioned earlier
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Oh I might add !!! for context !!! here is what Schmidt looked like as far as cWPA ---so the stat doesnt look at only if you played on WS teams
the argument has shifted to winning right?
per you
War is a bogus made up stat that most people have no idea even how to compute.
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