The economy

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

misinterpreting.. The Snap act does not provide food to every poor woman, children and the disabled (what about poor men???). The point is giving SNAP to those who need it and are eligible, and not to those not in that category.. Therin lies the rub

Now, if you can certify that every person on snap falls into those categories, and that every person who falls into those categories is receiving SNAP. I'm on your side. But Based on personal experience, I know that everyone in your categories who needs it doesn't get it, and every person who is receiving it is not eligible - at least if the "fraud' reports are even half accurate.

What a weak response. Because there is some degree of fraud in the system, I don't support it. Guess what. There is no perfect program. As @St. Louis Hawk said,

80% of SNAP recipients are children, elderly, or disabled.

 

[baltimorened]

What a weak response. Because there is some degree of fraud in the system, I don't support it. Guess what. There is no perfect program. As @St. Louis Hawk said,

I didn't say I don't support it. That wasn't the question. My response was to the comparison of subsidizing farmers while cutting SNAP for certain groups of people.

I;m all for SNAP and think it should be expanded. As I posted I have personal experience with a relative who basically had nothing but a minimal SS check, was a combat veteran in his 70s and didn't qualify for SNAP. At the same time we provide flood, shelter, education for undocumented migrants, doesn't seem right to me....

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

What disqualified your relative?

There are programs for temporary assistance for undocumented immigrants but nothing like you are implying. Please state specifics if I'm mistaken.

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

 

[baltimorened]

What disqualified your relative?

There are programs for temporary assistance for undocumented immigrants but nothing like you are implying. Please state specifics if I'm mistaken.

father in law, the statement was income..but he made less than 15,000 year.

NYC just one example, hotels taken over for migrants, rood, rooms, snacks, laundry all provided....Now if you tell me these were all paid for by ciyu funds, I'll remind you that NYC receives over $7 billion in federal funds annually. Which in my mind is insanity to begin with.

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

father in law, the statement was income..but he made less than 15,000 year.

NYC just one example, hotels taken over for migrants, rood, rooms, snacks, laundry all provided....Now if you tell me these were all paid for by ciyu funds, I'll remind you that NYC receives over $7 billion in federal funds annually. Which in my mind is insanity to begin with.

 

[MTTiger19]

Non citizens shouldn’t receive taxpayer funded subsidies period. Ever. They damn sure shouldn’t be enrolled in programs that are lawfully designed for our citizens that need a hand. That’s not moving a goal post, that’s telling the truth. Taxpayers in this country are being taxed to death so politicians can secure votes. People are sick of it.

 

[scotchtiger]

Non citizens shouldn’t receive taxpayer funded subsidies period. Ever. They damn sure shouldn’t be enrolled in programs that are lawfully designed for our citizens that need a hand.

Ding ding ding. I’m not even sure why this is controversial. The total federal spending on food, shelter, subsidies, cash assistance, etc for people not legally permitted to work in the US should be precisely $0.00.

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

Non citizens shouldn’t receive taxpayer funded subsidies period. Ever. They damn sure shouldn’t be enrolled in programs that are lawfully designed for our citizens that need a hand. That’s not moving a goal post, that’s telling the truth. Taxpayers in this country are being taxed to death so politicians can secure votes. People are sick of it.

Ding ding ding. I’m not even sure why this is controversial. The total federal spending on food, shelter, subsidies, cash assistance, etc for people not legally permitted to work in the US should be precisely $0.00.

Neither of you think non citizens pay taxes? You both would be wrong.

+1 In 2023, immigrants overall contributed $651.9 billion in federal, state, and local tax revenues. Out of this total, households led by undocumented immigrants generated nearly $90 billion in tax payments, with $33.9 billion going to state and local governments and $55.8B to the federal government.In Florida specifically, undocumented immigrants contribute approximately $1.8 billion annually in state and local taxes, largely through sales, excise, and property taxes.Because undocumented immigrants generally use Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs) or pay taxes through payroll deductions, they contribute billions to programs they cannot legally access, such as Social Security and Medicare.If you want to understand how these numbers impact your specific community or need details about other specific visa categories, let me know.

 

[MTTiger19]

Neither of you think non citizens pay taxes? You both would be wrong.

+1 In 2023, immigrants overall contributed $651.9 billion in federal, state, and local tax revenues. Out of this total, households led by undocumented immigrants generated nearly $90 billion in tax payments, with $33.9 billion going to state and local governments and $55.8B to the federal government.In Florida specifically, undocumented immigrants contribute approximately $1.8 billion annually in state and local taxes, largely through sales, excise, and property taxes.Because undocumented immigrants generally use Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs) or pay taxes through payroll deductions, they contribute billions to programs they cannot legally access, such as Social Security and Medicare.If you want to understand how these numbers impact your specific community or need details about other specific visa categories, let me know.

Great. How much do they cost? I know for a fact California (they reported) spent $10 billion on illegals healthcare alone. So per your own numbers 15% of the tax revenue they create is spent on healthcare in one fvcking state. That doesn’t count food or shelter, fraud (hello NY, MN and CA) etc… just doctors visits. Answer this - what has gotten less expensive since the explosion of illegals in 2020? Name one thing that’s better, just one.

Recent official figures: ~$9.5 billion total funds in the 2024–25 budget period for undocumented individuals in Medi-Cal

 

[scotchtiger]

Neither of you think non citizens pay taxes? You both would be wrong.

+1 In 2023, immigrants overall contributed $651.9 billion in federal, state, and local tax revenues. Out of this total, households led by undocumented immigrants generated nearly $90 billion in tax payments, with $33.9 billion going to state and local governments and $55.8B to the federal government.In Florida specifically, undocumented immigrants contribute approximately $1.8 billion annually in state and local taxes, largely through sales, excise, and property taxes.Because undocumented immigrants generally use Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs) or pay taxes through payroll deductions, they contribute billions to programs they cannot legally access, such as Social Security and Medicare.If you want to understand how these numbers impact your specific community or need details about other specific visa categories, let me know.

Please find the language in my post that says they don’t pay taxes.

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

Please find the language in my post that says they don’t pay taxes.

So, legal non citizens, who participate in the labor force and pay taxes, shouldn't get any kind of assistance because they're not citizens?

 

[Rifler]

So, legal non citizens, who participate in the labor force and pay taxes, shouldn't get any kind of assistance because they're not citizens?

I'd say that should be correct....

 

[DFSNOLE_rivals]

I'd say that should be correct....

Then they shouldn't have to pay taxes.

 

[Rifler]

Then they shouldn't have to pay taxes.

No, they should pay taxes and not be eligible for government assistance,.. Foreign workers choosing to come here should do so for the benefit of the system, and there is definitely no reason for taxpayers to be subsidizing the type of sub-standard wages that many of these individuals currently accept.

 

[baltimorened]

so how does that move the goals posts? You asked which relative was denied food stamps and I answered. You asked for an example of undocumented receiving benefits denied to Some Americans, I gave it to you....you set the questions, I answered.....

 

[baltimorened]

Neither of you think non citizens pay taxes? You both would be wrong.

+1 In 2023, immigrants overall contributed $651.9 billion in federal, state, and local tax revenues. Out of this total, households led by undocumented immigrants generated nearly $90 billion in tax payments, with $33.9 billion going to state and local governments and $55.8B to the federal government.In Florida specifically, undocumented immigrants contribute approximately $1.8 billion annually in state and local taxes, largely through sales, excise, and property taxes.Because undocumented immigrants generally use Individual Tax Identification Numbers (ITINs) or pay taxes through payroll deductions, they contribute billions to programs they cannot legally access, such as Social Security and Medicare.If you want to understand how these numbers impact your specific community or need details about other specific visa categories, let me know.

you just moved the goalposts.....the issue wasn't whether they paid taxes, the issue was whether they were entitled to benefits ....I pay taxes too, I don't get food stamps....

 

[baltimorened]

Then they shouldn't have to pay taxes.

why not, you keep moving the issue. It's not whether or not they should pay taxes, the issue was them receiving benefits not available to Americans...

You want to talk about paying taxes, that's one debate, but not this one

 

[scotchtiger]

So, legal non citizens, who participate in the labor force and pay taxes, shouldn't get any kind of assistance because they're not citizens?

They’re here to work. Not to get paid by the government. If they need government assistance, they aren’t good enough at working to be here.

And I specifically said “not legally permitted to work in the US.” I supposed you could make an argument that green card holders or H-1Bs may qualify for some VERY temporary assistance between jobs or something. But I see absolutely no argument that truly undocumented workers should receive a single penny from the government.

And think about the incentive free food/shelter/etc adds to illegal immigration. Of course we shouldn’t provide any of that. It’s insane to think otherwise.

 

[fatpiggy]

Big inflation print tomorrow morning.

Came in below expectations last month, don’t think we get a repeat of that this time. But if we do, watch out above.

 

[Dadar]

Can anyone imagine our administration even considering trying to control run away leverage in US markets. POTUS has a lot of experience with bankruptcies, not someone gave him the keys to the printing press with IRS and legal immunity.

The South Korean government has launched an emergency financial rescue mission and strict regulatory crackdowns to stabilize the volatile KOSPI stock index, which recently suffered a staggering 33% to 44% collapse from its historic June peak. After pushing the market to record highs, authorities are now scrambling to protect retail investors and stop massive capital flight

 

[Dadar]

The Federal Reserve Bank of New York holds approximately 507,000 gold bars weighing around 6,331 metric tons in its underground vault. The Federal Reserve does not own this gold; it acts strictly as a custodian accounting for assets belonging to foreign central banks, governments, and international organizations

 

[Dadar]

the Banque de France completed a process to remove its remaining gold reserves from the United States. Between July 2025 and January 2026, the French central bank liquidated its final 129 tonnes of older, non-standard gold bars held at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, choosing instead to purchase replacement bullion meeting modern international standards for storage in Paris

 

[Dadar]

China and precious metal acquisitions.

• Geopolitical Risk: Diversifying national assets away from counterparty and currency vulnerabilities.

• Infrastructure Shifts: Efforts to expand regional infrastructure, including plans to shift portions of physical bullion holdings into Hong Kong as a major trading hub.

 

[Dadar]

Shanghai Gold Exchange (SGE): The largest physical-delivery spot exchange in Asia, running its own daily yuan-denominated auctions.

 

[Dadar]

Gold and silver are showing upside momentum on charts

 

[fatpiggy]

Probably explains a lot about me.

Finance Bros know if you don't follow a set of rules based on reality, then you lose everything. You are held accountable for your actions.

 

[Palmerhawk]

I am fiscally center right as an accounting grad.
Socially, center left.
Math and brain science are center left...figures.
Those are areas conservatives shun?

 

[Dadar]

Gold and silver both broke out from a very bullish falling wedge pattern from the January 29 highs.

Huge movement of gold and silver from the west to the east
Shanghai same day gold exchange pegged to yuan

 

[Dadar]

Coherent reporting after the close today should at least match the bullish results and outlook from Lumentum yesterday.

 

[bdgan]

I am fiscally center right as an accounting grad.
Socially, center left.
Math and brain science are center left...figures.
Those are areas conservatives shun?

I'm also fiscally center right. I believe in a progressive tax system which we already have. In fact we have the most progressive tax system in the world.

U.S. already has most ‘progressive’ tax system in industrialized world | Fraser Institute

Even so I think we have to tax the ultra wealthy a bit more. The difference between me and those on the left is that I would use the revenues to reduce to deficit. We spend $7 trillion while only collecting $5 trillion and I don't think that's sustainable. It seems to me that the last thing we can afford to do is spend even more.

I used to be socially center left but that changed. I supported gay marriage. as long as the government didn't force the church to embrace it. And even though it's not my thing I'm happy that people find partners they care about and who they can share their life with. There was a time when democrats supported civil unions and I agreed. But things have gone crazy in recent years. BLM, DEI, CRT, pronouns, drag queen story hour, sex change for kids, etc have gone way too far. Adults have the right to do what they want but shoving some things down out throats is a step too far for me. IMO these things are dividing the country.

How can anybody be an accountant if they aren't good at math.

 

[bdgan]

Probably explains a lot about me.

Finance Bros know if you don't follow a set of rules based on reality, then you lose everything. You are held accountable for your actions.

They probably understand that when you spend $7 trillion while collecting $5 trillion the solution isn't to keep spending. Some people have difficulty understanding this.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[nytigerfan]

trump has depleted our SPR to levels not seen since the early 1980s. He is doing this to lower the price of gas, lower inflation, etc., right before an election.

I miss 2022 tigergrowls. In 2022 you would’ve called such actions treasonous. But now you are oddly quiet.

 

[TigerGrowls]

trump has depleted our SPR to levels not seen since the early 1980s. He is doing this to lower the price of gas, lower inflation, etc., right before an election.

I miss 2022 tigergrowls. In 2022 you would’ve called such actions treasonous. But now you are oddly quiet.

I dont love it but Trump has a legit reason to do it. What was China Joes excuse?

 

[Palmerhawk]

I'm also fiscally center right. I believe in a progressive tax system which we already have. In fact we have the most progressive tax system in the world.

U.S. already has most ‘progressive’ tax system in industrialized world | Fraser Institute

Even so I think we have to tax the ultra wealthy a bit more. The difference between me and those on the left is that I would use the revenues to reduce to deficit. We spend $7 trillion while only collecting $5 trillion and I don't think that's sustainable. It seems to me that the last thing we can afford to do is spend even more.

I used to be socially center left but that changed. I supported gay marriage. as long as the government didn't force the church to embrace it. And even though it's not my thing I'm happy that people find partners they care about and who they can share their life with. There was a time when democrats supported civil unions and I agreed. But things have gone crazy in recent years. BLM, DEI, CRT, pronouns, drag queen story hour, sex change for kids, etc have gone way too far. Adults have the right to do what they want but shoving some things down out throats is a step too far for me. IMO these things are gooddividing the country.

How can anybody be an accountant if they aren't good at math.

Common ground? Good.
Can we agree that tariffs are taxes?
Some are hitting businesses( which are being refunded,some hitting consumers which will not be refunded.
Net result: tax on consumer that is re- distributed
To corporations, not to govt revenue.
Inflationary...keeping interest expense rising on govt debt.

War in Iran costs usa govt in defense expense.
Costs consumer in gas and transport expense.
Again, inflationary.

If trump had not enacted these 2 policies, interest rates would be lower and with hyperscaler investment in AI, america probably would be experiencing a Clinton era dot com boom right now

As for culture issues, being center left means being pro- choice, acceptance of orientation and equal rights to all Americans.

 

[fatpiggy]

Common ground? Good.
Can we agree that tariffs are taxes?
Some are hitting businesses( which are being refunded,some hitting consumers which will not be refunded.
Net result: tax on consumer that is re- distributed
To corporations, not to govt revenue.
Inflationary...keeping interest expense rising on govt debt.

War in Iran costs usa govt in defense expense.
Costs consumer in gas and transport expense.
Again, inflationary.

If trump had not enacted these 2 policies, interest rates would be lower and with hyperscaler investment in AI, america probably would be experiencing a Clinton era dot com boom right now

As for culture issues, being center left means being pro- choice, acceptance of orientation and equal rights to all Americans.

Tariffs are a losing argument for Dems.

You are essentially saying that tariffs cause inflation.


Ok. Inflation got up to 9% under Biden. Dems ran inflation much hotter for longer than needed.


The last election was on the economy and inflation and Dems lost solidly. They lost the electoral college, the popular vote, and all seven swing states.

Tariffs and inflation are losing platforms for the Dems

 

[fatpiggy]

The economy is on FIRE right now.

Most Dems just dont want to see it.

Another inline to below expectations print on PPI just now.

Rate cut before the end of the year will continue to help housing inflation come down.

Housing inflation is 0% yoy btw.

 

[Palmerhawk]

The economy is on FIRE right now.

Most Dems just dont want to see it.

Another inline to below expectations print on PPI just now.

Rate cut before the end of the year will continue to help housing inflation come down.

Housing inflation is 0% yoy btw.

On fire? Gdp was 1.2 last qtr. Employment had negative job growth in July.

By those standards bidens gdp #s and employment reports were absolutely super-hot comparatively.

It's the economy,stupid still holds water.
We will see in November.