Team Blue: Help me understand what is going on in the Democratic Party

[gohawks50]

What's I've learned is, don't underestimate the power of a single person or movement. Especially when a team is willing to sell it's soul just so the other team doesn't win.

In my opinion the Democratic and Republican parties have always been different. Republicans almost always pull together. Democrats tend to break in small groups supporting different ideas or versions. As they say Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.

 

[SB_SB]

In my opinion the Democratic and Republican parties have always been different. Republicans almost always pull together. Democrats tend to break in small groups supporting different ideas or versions. As they say Democrats fall in love, Republicans fall in line.

I agree, I just don't want democrats falling in love with the wrong group. Sometimes love is blind.

 

[gohawks50]

I agree, I just don't want democrats falling in love with the wrong group. Sometimes love is blind.

And the wrong group is what? Muslims? Progressives?

 

[Moogy]

I just looked it up and apparently Al-Sayed has explicitly said he is not a member of DSA.

Oh, well, then, we shouldn't be concerned that he's hobnobbing with them, echoing their messages and his supporters are big DSA followers. He's totally not DSA.

 

[Moogy]

Are you equating Trump's MAGA movement with a few progressive Democrats that are Muslim? I can't recall a time in US history where a major party's platform was simply whatever one man wants (Trump). The power of Democrat progressives pales in comparison to one Trump tweet.

It wasn't always like that, was it? Once upon a time Trump was an upstart troublemaker who was shaking things up, and rallying support among the non-moderates because we "needed" something different ... and then the contagion set in and his cult of personality took over everything. And now we're being told, by the other side, that the pendulum is going to swing back the other way, as far as Trump swung it in his direction. They're literally telling you what they hope is coming.

 

[Tom Paris]

anybody who is realistic knows that elements of our society and politics falls under a socialist parameter.

But, if you're comparing those to the DSA platform, I don't think that's an accurate comparison. The two are far apart

Some of it is. Yes. But a lot of it protects the masses. The ones I agree with don’t have destroying capitalism at the top of their list. We can have rich people. We shouldn’t have homeless veterans for example. We shouldn’t have people losing their savings accounts if they get cancer. The wealth hoarders are a bigger threat. Too many protect the few over the many. Those people often think they are good Christians. Lol.

 

[Tom Paris]

Democrat Socialist and Communists of America


Good job Democrats.

You elected a child rapist so maybe have a nice warm glass of shut the **** up.

 

[gohawks50]

It wasn't always like that, was it? Once upon a time Trump was an upstart troublemaker who was shaking things up, and rallying support among the non-moderates because we "needed" something different ... and then the contagion set in and his cult of personality took over everything. And now we're being told, by the other side, that the pendulum is going to swing back the other way, as far as Trump swung it in his direction. They're literally telling you what they hope is coming.

I don't think they're saying the left is going to have a leader with the cult like following Trump does. I think they are saying that ideas from the opposite side of the pendulum are going to gain more traction, but we're Democrats and we have trouble agreeing on where to go to dinner.

 

[Tom Paris]

“Hoarding the wealth for a few”…. Sounds like a guy who has never had the guts, energy, or will to try and make it on his/her own. Now blames everyone else for what he/she doesn’t have.

The system works, and works well… but not for those who don’t try.

You just sounded like a damn MAGA lying. That’s a MAGA line. If you can’t see what the top 10% are doing then I’m really disappointed in you. That right there is the most ignorant post I have ever seen you make. Again, how is it that Bezos and Musk are taking lower salaries than you and me but not hoarding wealth? Why again did Biden hire 87,000 IRS agents and Republicans lost their minds? “They’re coming for you!!!“ My effing a s s.

Not to mention, and you should know this, kids in this country are not born onto a level playing field. 28 years in education has proven that. Disappointed.

 

[Tom Paris]

Communism and Socialism have never worked for for the people, it's murdered them by the millions. It has sunk people into absolute poverty. Maybe you should make something of yourself and stop blaming

NM

 

[Moogy]

I don't think they're saying the left is going to have a leader with the cult like following Trump does. I think they are saying that ideas from the opposite side of the pendulum are going to gain more traction, but we're Democrats and we have trouble agreeing on where to go to dinner.

It may or may not be a singular person, or it may just be a borg of socialism/communism that overwhelms individual freedoms and voices as a “singularity.”

Regardless, they’re telegraphing their moves, so if we let the left destroy the country, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Perfect example @RagnarLothbrok - this is the MAGA stupidity that you’re way above, but echoed. Pointing out that billionaires are screwing over the rest of us doesn’t mean we didn’t try hard enough. JFC I’m so over that lazy argument.

You are seriously lumping me in with that dipsh*t?

JFC.

Didn’t I even explain in this thread the intricate details of Danish “socialism” and why it works so well?

F#ck off, Tom. Don’t ever associate me with HotSplooge again.

 

[jimneffer]

I just looked it up and apparently Al-Sayed has explicitly said he is not a member of DSA.

but can't I just ignore that simple fact and continue to be worried?

 

[Tom Paris]

I like you Tom and you are normally pretty rational so I will take an extra step here to show you exactly where these points are because for some reason you seem to have blinders on relative to the DSA.

Also I did not link a story. I gave you the DSA website published by the DSA with their entire political platform spelled out as approved by the DSA.

This will be my last post on this topic as we are just moving into rote repetition. These ARE the DSA policies. They are unrealistic, many are just plain stupid and if Dems embrace these it will backfire the way MAGA is going to backfire on the GOP.

It is extremism Tom.

Claim	Actual statement	Where to find
Abolish police and prisons	“For all of the working class to achieve collective liberation we must constrain, diminish, and abolish the carceral forces of the state — from prisons and police themselves, to their manifestations in all forms throughout society”	Abolition page
Eliminate the Senate	“abolish the Senate”	DSA platform page Under the section “Working class democracy”
Nationalize large corporations	“Establish public ownership of the largest corporations and essential industries to ensure democratic control and accountability to the people”	DSA platform page Under the Working Class Democracy section
Eliminate public vote for presidency have it chosen by the House	”Replace the President and Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen by and subordinate to Congress.”	DSA platform page Under the Working Class Democracy section
Supreme Court chosen by the house	”Replace the President and Supreme Court with an executive and judiciary chosen by and subordinate to Congress.”	DSA platform page Under the Working Class Democracy section
Jerusalem capital of Palestine	“a free Palestine with Jerusalem as its capital”	DSA platform page Under the Working Class Foreign Policy section
Pay reparations for slavery	“Enact reparations”	DSA platform page Under Thriving Working Class Communities Section
Build a sh*t ton of public housing	“Build new, publicly-owned social housing”	DSA platform page Under Thriving Working Class Communities Section
Make college free for everyone	“Provide free, quality public education from pre-K to college”	DSA platform page Under Thriving Working Class Communities Section

(Sorry about table formatting y’all - can’t seem to control column width)

1. I agree with you.

2. They want to add MORE REPRESENTATIVES so states like Wyoming don’t have as much say in the Senate as Texas and California. I don’t disagree with them.

3. I don’t agree with taking companies over like which is beginning to happen with Trump getting pieces of them. Much of what I see on this topic is asking for regulation and not blowing up capitalism. Most just want a level playing field.

4. That’s not what it says and why would you be against corruption?

5. I’m a 2 state person.

6. I agree with all of that other than reparations depending on what that would look like. We need people living in poverty to not feel desperate. Desperate people commit crimes.

7. Housing should be an American right. I agree with them. We are in a housing crisis.

8. I’m fine with making college easily accessible to all who want it. Or trade schools. This doesn’t bother me especially when Republicans are just fine with this voucher system that almost completely helps well off families.

So yeah, and I know you handpicked here but within every section of that there is a lot that benefits the masses…which I want my taxes going to. Not foreign countries and freaking wars.

I apologize for calling it a story. The first link I was reading on my phone and it stopped scrolling down. I could see it all this time.

 

[gohawks50]

It may or may not be a singular person, or it may just be a borg of socialism/communism that overwhelms individual freedoms and voices as a “singularity.”

Regardless, they’re telegraphing their moves, so if we let the left destroy the country, we have no one to blame but ourselves.

Sure, it's the left that will destroy our country.

Have you been asleep during Trump's Presidency?

 

[Jerome Silberman]

What's I've learned is, don't underestimate the power of a single person or movement. Especially when a team is willing to sell it's soul just so the other team doesn't win.

It's amazing how Trump and the GOP have successfully lowered expectations to the point that people that brag about being reasonable have given up entirely.

 

[Moral]

Sure, it's the left that will destroy our country.

Have you been asleep during Trump's Presidency?

Moogy reminds me of Seminole97.

 

[Jerome Silberman]

Moogy reminds me of Seminole97.

Too milquetoast, 97 at least had the little panache of someone committed to a bit. Moogy seems to trapped in a cycle of fear of shadowy Socialists patiently plotting the execution of capitalism and whatever rights are left after the current sh!tshow and demanding a bunch of nobodies about to vote for Rob Sand lay out detailed plans for anything they've ever thought.

Smells to me like a one time Trump voter with a ton of guilt and zero ability to forgive themselves for getting duped.

 

[Tom Paris]

I would vote for you.

Seriously.

We would accomplish nothing then for everyday Americans. Nothing would change. Billionaires would fund his campaign.

 

[Tom Paris]

Politician	DSA endorsed​	End police/ prisons​	Abolish Senate​	Public ownership*​	Congress controls exec./courts​	End Electoral College​	End U.S. aid to Israel​	Medicare for All​
El-Sayed	No​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Sanders	No¹​	​	​	​	—​	​	◐​	​
AOC	Yes²​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	​	◐​	​
Tlaib	Yes​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Kiros	Yes​	​	​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Rabb	Yes​	—​	—​	◐​	—​	—​	◐​	​
McKinney	Yes​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	◐​	​
Valdez	Yes​	—​	—​	◐​	—​	—​	​	​
Avila Chevalier	Yes​	—​	—​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Oliver Larkin	Yes​	—​	​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Summer Lee	Yes³​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	◐​	​
KEY	Supports DSA position​	Opposes​	◐ Partial/less sweeping​	— No clear public support found​	​	​	​	​
DSA definitions	​	Abolish police & prisons​	Abolish Senate​	Public ownership of largest corporations & essential industries​	Executive & judiciary chosen by/subordinate to Congress​	Abolish Electoral College​	End U.S. military & economic aid to Israel​	Government-financed insurance; not government-owned hospitals​
Endorsement notes	¹ Sanders: DSA endorsed him in 2020; not currently endorsed. ² AOC: NYC-DSA endorsed; national DSA withdrew endorsement in 2024. ³ Lee: past DSA endorsement/support.​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​

Yep. Let’s stay as we are. Lol.

 

[Tom Paris]

I just looked it up and apparently Al-Sayed has explicitly said he is not a member of DSA.

Well not surprised because there aren’t even 100,000 of them.

 

[Tom Paris]

You are seriously lumping me in with that dipsh*t?

JFC.

Didn’t I even explain in this thread the intricate details of Danish “socialism” and why it works so well?

F#ck off, Tom. Don’t ever associate me with HotSplooge again.

NM

 

[Moogy]

Too milquetoast, 97 at least had the little panache of someone committed to a bit. Moogy seems to trapped in a cycle of fear of shadowy Socialists patiently plotting the execution of capitalism and whatever rights are left after the current sh!tshow and demanding a bunch of nobodies about to vote for Rob Sand lay out detailed plans for anything they've ever thought.

Smells to me like a one time Trump voter with a ton of guilt and zero ability to forgive themselves for getting duped.

Your judgment of my past support is as terrible as your rambling drug-induced attempts at the English language. I've dealt with Trump, before he was a political concern. He was a horrendous human then, and continues to be, and I tried to warn everyone ... just like I'm trying to warn everyone of the psychosis infecting the left now. You have the same disease MAGAts had/have.

 

[Moral]

Your judgment of my past support is as terrible as your rambling drug-induced attempts at the English language. I've dealt with Trump, before he was a political concern. He was a horrendous human then, and continues to be, and I tried to warn everyone ... just like I'm trying to warn everyone of the psychosis infecting the left now. You have the same disease MAGAts had/have.

Cringe-porn.

 

[Moogy]

Cringe-porn.

Exhibit A.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

You said what you said which is why you disappointed me. Own what you said. You think I’m envious because I didn’t work hard enough. That’s ignorant. Own what you said.

What?

 

[TigerGrowls]

Politician	DSA endorsed​	End police/ prisons​	Abolish Senate​	Public ownership*​	Congress controls exec./courts​	End Electoral College​	End U.S. aid to Israel​	Medicare for All​
El-Sayed	No​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Sanders	No¹​	​	​	​	—​	​	◐​	​
AOC	Yes²​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	​	◐​	​
Tlaib	Yes​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Kiros	Yes​	​	​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Rabb	Yes​	—​	—​	◐​	—​	—​	◐​	​
McKinney	Yes​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	◐​	​
Valdez	Yes​	—​	—​	◐​	—​	—​	​	​
Avila Chevalier	Yes​	—​	—​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Oliver Larkin	Yes​	—​	​	—​	—​	—​	​	​
Summer Lee	Yes³​	◐​	—​	—​	—​	—​	◐​	​
KEY	Supports DSA position​	Opposes​	◐ Partial/less sweeping​	— No clear public support found​	​	​	​	​
DSA definitions	​	Abolish police & prisons​	Abolish Senate​	Public ownership of largest corporations & essential industries​	Executive & judiciary chosen by/subordinate to Congress​	Abolish Electoral College​	End U.S. military & economic aid to Israel​	Government-financed insurance; not government-owned hospitals​
Endorsement notes	¹ Sanders: DSA endorsed him in 2020; not currently endorsed. ² AOC: NYC-DSA endorsed; national DSA withdrew endorsement in 2024. ³ Lee: past DSA endorsement/support.​	​	​	​	​	​	​	​

El Sayad is DSA. Any word to the contrary is BS.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

1. I agree with you.

2. They want to add MORE REPRESENTATIVES so states like Wyoming don’t have as much say in the Senate as Texas and California. I don’t disagree with them.

3. I don’t agree with taking companies over like which is beginning to happen with Trump getting pieces of them. Much of what I see on this topic is asking for regulation and not blowing up capitalism. Most just want a level playing field.

4. That’s not what it says and why would you be against corruption?

5. I’m a 2 state person.

6. I agree with all of that other than reparations depending on what that would look like. We need people living in poverty to not feel desperate. Desperate people commit crimes.

7. Housing should be an American right. I agree with them. We are in a housing crisis.

8. I’m fine with making college easily accessible to all who want it. Or trade schools. This doesn’t bother me especially when Republicans are just fine with this voucher system that almost completely helps well off families.

So yeah, and I know you handpicked here but within every section of that there is a lot that benefits the masses…which I want my taxes going to. Not foreign countries and freaking wars.

I apologize for calling it a story. The first link I was reading on my phone and it stopped scrolling down. I could see it all this time.

To your handpicking point. I handpicked the stuff I think depart from classic progressive beliefs. Policies I feel are WAY too extreme. There is plenty I agree with on the DSA page, but the policies I listed I simply and fundamentally disagree with to the point that if such a DSA candidate was running against a MAGA in my district I would vote third party (and I voted Harris for the record).

 

[PapaGanoush]

You just sounded like a damn MAGA lying. That’s a MAGA line. If you can’t see what the top 10% are doing then I’m really disappointed in you. That right there is the most ignorant post I have ever seen you make. Again, how is it that Bezos and Musk are taking lower salaries than you and me but not hoarding wealth? Why again did Biden hire 87,000 IRS agents and Republicans lost their minds? “They’re coming for you!!!“ My effing a s s.

Not to mention, and you should know this, kids in this country are not born onto a level playing field. 28 years in education has proven that. Disappointed.

Ahhh.. a lifelong teacher. Thanks for your service, but I now understand why you don’t get it.

 

[PapaGanoush]

Thank goodness we have the constitution which forbids it. I'm just not going to lose sleep over something that's not happening, while ignoring something that is.

You’re fully aware of Islam’s ultimate goal, no?

 

[Moogy]

Sure, it's the left that will destroy our country.

Have you been asleep during Trump's Presidency?

This has already been addressed. Yes, the left will destroy our country if the extremists take control. And it'll be quick, too.

Someone on this board posted a video of geopolitical analysts discussing hypothetical ends of the world, and what they think could/would trigger it. It was a really long video. Toward the end of it, as they wrapped up their exercise (some believed their doomsday scenarios more than others), they talked about what could prevent these scenarios ... one mentioned that, as long as America recalibrated back to normalcy - the middle - and didn't embrace extreme leftist ideology in response to the MAGAt shock, there was a substantial likelihood we'd be OK for awhile. It was the calming effect the world (and the country) would need. They had historical examples of how a severe pendulum swing back the other way was a death knell, and even percentages, I believe.

This was exactly my belief, as well. Those guys were no fans of Trump and MAGA, to say the least - much like myself. One psychotic break is enough ... we don't need another one in the opposite direction.

 

[Moral]

This has already been addressed. Yes, the left will destroy our country if the extremists take control. And it'll be quick, too.

Someone on this board posted a video of geopolitical analysts discussing hypothetical ends of the world, and what they think could/would trigger it. It was a really long video. Toward the end of it, as they wrapped up their exercise (some believed their doomsday scenarios more than others), they talked about what could prevent these scenarios ... one mentioned that, as long as America recalibrated back to normalcy - the middle - and didn't embrace extreme leftist ideology in response to the MAGAt shock, there was a substantial likelihood we'd be OK for awhile. It was the calming effect the world (and the country) would need. They had historical examples of how a severe pendulum swing back the other way was a death knell, and even percentages, I believe.

This was exactly my belief, as well. Those guys were no fans of Trump and MAGA, to say the least - much like myself. One psychotic break is enough ... we don't need another one in the opposite direction.

It sounds like you might be the one having a psychotic break.

 

[PapaGanoush]

It sounds like you might be the one having a psychotic break.

No, he’s actually making sense & you’re too politically biased to see it.

& I’m a Trump voter.

 

[Moral]

& I’m a Trump voter.

 

[dpic73]

To your handpicking point. I handpicked the stuff I think depart from classic progressive beliefs. Policies I feel are WAY too extreme. There is plenty I agree with on the DSA page, but the policies I listed I simply and fundamentally disagree with to the point that if such a DSA candidate was running against a MAGA in my district I would vote third party (and I voted Harris for the record).

I get where you're coming from and I'm not gonna pretend I don't also get twitchy about some of the newer DSA-adjacent candidates because a few of them are genuinely too far out for me, if I'm honest.

I also recognize their support didn't come from nowhere because people are pissed off and tired of hearing disciplined messaging from politicians that won't fight for them, because it feels like Trump has just bulldozed all resistance on the Right and the Left and no one is putting up more than a speed bump in his way.

But it also grinds my gears watching some of these candidates and their loudest fans treat moderate Dems like the enemy. Remember when a Brooklyn coffee shop owner posted a photo of Dan Goldman buying coffee and told him to stay away, called him a fascist, and said his money was "probably coming from AIPAC anyways"? That's not activism, that's just gross — and it's the same energy showing up across the party. Punching a guy who votes with you 90% of the time isn't principled, it's just handing the other side a bigger tent than ours. If we start eating our own moderates and Independents, we're not going to have a coalition big enough to win anything, so if they want the rest of us to be more receptive to their message, they need to show more human decency so we aren't modeling the same thing we hate about the other side.

Having said that, I also don't want to throw the baby out with the bathwater because a lot of their proposals are popular with many on the Left and the Center so it's not like they're unworthy of being listened to, and their groundswell of support demands that we pay attention.

Universal healthcare seems to be a top concern of all of them so I for one am open to Abdul El-Sayed as he is a Rhodes scholar with two doctorate degrees in Health related fields, an epidemiologist for the Detroit health dept and actually wrote a book on how to implement Medicare are for all. He deserves a seat at the table regardless of the fact that he may have said things that some see as extreme because hasn't whacky extremity been normalized for the last ten years on the other side anyway? Is he really worse than what we've all been experiencing already?

You can think some of these candidates go too far and be frustrated when the fire gets turned on our own but after watching a decade of scorched-earth politics from the other side, we should be aiming our anger where it counts. Beat maga first and we can hash out the rest after we've actually won something.

PS - this wasn't directed at you in particular, just putting my general thoughts out there.

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[TigerGrowls]

 

[Moogy]

It sounds like you might be the one having a psychotic break.

Tell us more about how no one but you knows proper political ideological classifications, which makes everyone else a big dumbdumbhead … and you’re not telling anyone your top secret info.

That seems sane.

Also tell us how we shouldn’t be concerned about Al-Sayed’s association with DSA, because he says so.

Why, it’s almost like you’re completely full of sh.it.

 

[TigerGrowls]

For sane democrats.

ats.