Brad Nessler on KF and IOWA: "Nobody wants to play them."

[Grayhair1981]

Fans should always care about how they and other fans act.

It's not about BF or KF.

It's about fans having gotten it terribly wrong.

There simply is NO justification for fan negativity to have reached its all-time high, during what at the time, was the final season ('23) of KF's winningest stretch at Iowa. NONE

That "winningest stretch" looked like this:
The 23 wins against FBS teams were against teams with a collective winning percentage of .438
The best wins were Minnesota at 9-4 in 21 and 22
and NW at 8-5 in 23.
That "winningest stretch" coincided with a run of weak schedules. Imagine that. And 23 wins in 3 seasons gets you off?

 

[Rifler]

23 wins in 3 seasons gets you off?

Yep,.. works for me.

 

[eyesofhawk]

That "winningest stretch" looked like this:
The 23 wins against FBS teams were against teams with a collective winning percentage of .438
The best wins were Minnesota at 9-4 in 21 and 22
and NW at 8-5 in 23.
That "winningest stretch" coincided with a run of weak schedules. Imagine that. And 23 wins in 3 seasons gets you off?

I was referring to BF's tenure at OC.

Carried KF's best winning percentage over a span of 6 full seasons, at .688 (pre vacated wins). Plus the Covid year at .750.

Your strength of schedule argument is easily delegitimized from a few different angles.

But for the sake of time, let's say the SOS narrative actually carries some significance. Lead me through the part where fan opinion of the schedule was actually significant enough to justify negativity having grown to an all-time toxic level, around a coach who had over two decades of equity in the program, including a peak level of recent success at that time

 

[rchawk]

A career line coach (see Reese Morgan) is a talented teacher, and Brian was showing signs of being one.

Kirk does bear the responsibility of making Brian offensive coordinator long before he was ready for that job.

 

[eyesofhawk]

A career line coach (see Reese Morgan) is a talented teacher, and Brian was showing signs of being one.

Kirk does bear the responsibility of making Brian offensive coordinator long before he was ready for that job.

Im not sure there's anything to say he wasn't ready

 

[Grayhair1981]

I was referring to BF's tenure at OC.

Carried KF's best winning percentage over a span of 6 full seasons, at .688 (pre vacated wins). Plus the Covid year at .750.

Your strength of schedule argument is easily delegitimized from a few different angles.

But for the sake of time, let's say the SOS narrative actually carries some significance. Lead me through the part where fan opinion of the schedule was actually significant enough to justify negativity having grown to an all-time toxic level, around a coach who had over two decades of equity in the program, including a peak level of recent success at that time

By all means, delegitimize it. That "best winning percentage" was achieved in a window of crap schedules. 2023 was the pinnacle of this phenomenon. 0-92 against the only three teams with a pulse they played that year.

 

[eyesofhawk]

By all means, delegitimize it. That "best winning percentage" was achieved in a window of crap schedules. 2023 was the pinnacle of this phenomenon. 0-92 against the only three teams with a pulse they played that year.

Well, that one seemed to go completely over your head.

Point remains

 

[Grayhair1981]

Well, that one seemed to go completely over your head.

Point remains

Again-you have provided nothing but your opinion to support your opinion.

 

[eyesofhawk]

Again-you have provided nothing but your opinion to support your opinion.

Again, mere fan opinion of SOS does not justify the highest all-time fan negativity, during peak success of a long successful football coach.

Are you going to try to convince me otherwise? Or are you again going to repeat that you didn't think Iowa's SOS was any good?

Sometimes I truly wonder if you can read

 

[Grayhair1981]

Again, mere fan opinion of SOS does not justify the highest all-time fan negativity, during peak success of a long successful football coach.

Are you going to try to convince me otherwise? Or are you again going to repeat that you didn't think Iowa's SOS was any good?

Sometimes I truly wonder if you can read

My response is that you aren't divine and don't get to dictate what people can or can't think or say. They were very valid reasons for criticism during that "most successful" time. And the record shows 6-4 in 23.

 

[85Bears]

My response is that you aren't divine and don't get to dictate what people can or can't think or say. They were very valid reasons for criticism during that "most successful" time. And the record shows 6-4 in 23.

Geez, give it a rest. Maybe find another team to follow, become an Ohio state T-shirt fan.

 

[Grayhair1981]

Geez, give it a rest. Maybe find another team to follow, become an Ohio state T-shirt fan.

Nope. I am actually excited for the future. I enjoyed last season. They were in every game now that a competent OC is running the offense. Go give your daddy Eyes a big smooch

 

[BigDelHawk]

Because he touched me in my nono zone and I am still hurting.

JK, it is honestly fascinating how bad it really got. I am looking forward to watching TL's offense this year. The ANF pods he did were outstanding.

If you watched those podcasts, that guy comes off as so personable, so warm and funny. What recruit wouldn't want to play for him. I think he is going to turn this offense around and Iowa is going to be even more dangerous than they have been.

 

[eyesofhawk]

My response is that you aren't divine and don't get to dictate what people can or can't think or say. They were very valid reasons for criticism during that "most successful" time. And the record shows 6-4 in 23.

So, SOS, and "very valid reasons", amounted to a justifiable all-time negativity during the winningest stretch of a long winning program?

What am I missing, here? You're going to have to present a better case than that.

Because the only thing "valid", were the numbers going into the record books.

And the fact that some wins have since been vacated does nothing to change negative fan behavior during, what at the time, were games recorded as wins.

That's probably the 3rd time you've mentioned the vacated wins to me, and each time they have remained irrelevant to the point. Seriously, are you trolling, or what?

But again, I'm glad you brought that up, because it again further illustrates the illegitimacy of the SOS complaint.

Because the toxicity didn't just exist at the end of what was a 10-4 '23 season. It existed throughout an entire 10-2 division champ regular season.

And in previous seasons, where Iowa could only beat the teams that were on their schedule, they did so without anyone having any knowledge of whether those teams might end up in the top 25, or not. Yet the negativity persisted that entire time.

Basically, what was a growing negativity from fans was put on display many gamedays that resulted in wins.

To me, absent immoral behavior within the program, the fan's role is simply, to support. Always. Negativity should never reach the level it did.

But for the sake of this point, I'll entertain a world in which fan negativity is going to exist in proportion to lack of success.

But again, no lack of success can be found during that time of peak negativity.

So I now have to also make concessions, for the sake of this point, and entertain a world in which SOS carries significance.

Again, I don't give signficance to SOS. But if I did, it certainly wouldn't be significant enough to minimize a peak level of success of a long successful coach. In other words, KF should have earned the benefit of the doubt a long time before that.

But let's say Iowa played the "easiest" schedule of all-time in a 10-2 regular season. Wouldn't that only drop fan appreciation to something commiserate with more like a 9 or 8 win season? How the hell do fans justify acting as if Iowa only won 3 or 4 games?

You mentioned other "very valid reasons", without specifying what those are.

Let me save everyone the suspense, because whatever those reasons were, they in no way, justified the level of negativity.

Because newsflash, sports teams are fairly judged by their record only.

To value something different than the team values, to judge them in any other way than how they judge themselves, is completely disrespectful.

Members of the '23 team experienced that season as one of the most special in Hawkeye history. For fans to have somehow reached an all-time time high in negativity that season, is nothing other than a commentary on fans. It was completely wrong, completely unjustifyable, and quite sad

 

[eyesofhawk]

Nope. I am actually excited for the future. I enjoyed last season. They were in every game now that a competent OC is running the offense. Go give your daddy Eyes a big smooch

You continue to make my point.

Close losses have you excited. While you continue to justify what was minimization of the winningest stretch for a long time winning coach.

Fans continue to prove their priorities wrong with posts like this

 

[Grayhair1981]

So, SOS, and "very valid reasons", amounted to a justifiable all-time negativity during the winningest stretch of a long winning program?

What am I missing, here? You're going to have to present a better case than that.

Because the only thing "valid", were the numbers going into the record books.

And the fact that some wins have since been vacated does nothing to change negative fan behavior during, what at the time, were games recorded as wins.

That's probably the 3rd time you've mentioned the vacated wins to me, and each time they have remained irrelevant to the point. Seriously, are you trolling, or what?

But again, I'm glad you brought that up, because it again further illustrates the illegitimacy of the SOS complaint.

Because the toxicity didn't just exist at the end of what was a 10-4 '23 season. It existed throughout an entire 10-2 division champ regular season.

And in previous seasons, where Iowa could only beat the teams that were on their schedule, they did so without anyone having any knowledge of whether those teams might end up in the top 25, or not. Yet the negativity persisted that entire time.

Basically, what was a growing negativity from fans was put on display many gamedays that resulted in wins.

To me, absent immoral behavior within the program, the fan's role is simply, to support. Always. Negativity should never reach the level it did.

But for the sake of this point, I'll entertain a world in which fan negativity is going to exist in proportion to lack of success.

But again, no lack of success can be found during that time of peak negativity.

So I now have to also make concessions, for the sake of this point, and entertain a world in which SOS carries significance.

Again, I don't give signficance to SOS. But if I did, it certainly wouldn't be significant enough to minimize a peak level of success of a long successful coach. In other words, KF should have earned the benefit of the doubt a long time before that.

But let's say Iowa played the "easiest" schedule of all-time in a 10-2 regular season. Wouldn't that only drop fan appreciation to something commiserate with more like a 9 or 8 win season? How the hell do fans justify acting as if Iowa only won 3 or 4 games?

You mentioned other "very valid reasons", without specifying what those are.

Let me save everyone the suspense, because whatever those reasons were, they in no way, justified the level of negativity.

Because newsflash, sports teams are fairly judged by their record only.

To value something different than the team values, to judge them in any other way than how they judge themselves, is completely disrespectful.

Members of the '23 team experienced that season as one of the most special in Hawkeye history. For fans to have somehow reached an all-time time high in negativity that season, is nothing other than a commentary on fans. It was completely wrong, completely unjustifyable, and quite sad

You throw out crap like "all-time negativity" like it is a quantifiable metric. It is YOUR OPINION and nothing more. Fans (fanatics) are by definition irrational creatures. People watch sports to be entertained. For many of those people, "masterpieces" like the 7-3 victory over SDSU and having a punter demolish the season punting yardage are unsatisfactory.
You say "the only things valid are the things going into the record books" then refuse to acknowledge the four vacated wins.
2002-2004 was a far more successful period than 21-23. Would you like to put it to a vote of the board as to which period was better?

 

[Grayhair1981]

You continue to make my point.

Close losses have you excited. While you continue to justify what was minimization of the winningest stretch for a long time winning coach.

Fans continue to prove their priorities wrong with posts like this

Yes. Taking the eventual NC and a top-10 team to the last possession of the game are more exciting to me than beating an FCS team by scoring two safeties and a FG all created by the defense. Pretty sure I am not the only one who feels that way.

 

[yrunvs]

Another boring Eye's vs Hair pissing contest.

 

[85Bears]

Another boring Eye's vs Hair pissing contest.

Gheyhair ruining another thread

 

[eyesofhawk]

You throw out crap like "all-time negativity" like it is a quantifiable metric. It is YOUR OPINION and nothing more. Fans (fanatics) are by definition irrational creatures. People watch sports to be entertained. For many of those people, "masterpieces" like the 7-3 victory over SDSU and having a punter demolish the season punting yardage are unsatisfactory.
You say "the only things valid are the things going into the record books" then refuse to acknowledge the four vacated wins.
2002-2004 was a far more successful period than 21-23. Would you like to put it to a vote of the board as to which period was better?

- Well, so far there's yet to be anyone disagree with my opinion that '23 was the most toxic. Care to be the first?

And you again miss the point. Whether it was the 1st, or 3rd, or 5th most toxic season, fan sentiment was nowhere near proportional to program success.

- By definition, a fan fanatically supports, not acts like an irrational idiot.

But if you want to talk origins, in no way should "fan" be related to "consumer".

- It's fine to watch sports to be entertained. But if a team is getting judged by its entertainment value, that is very unfair.

For one thing, different types of games are more entertaining to different fans (consumers).

- No. I said, "the only thing valid WERE the numbers going into the record books."


And I completely acknowledge the vacated wins. But they are irrelevant to the negative fan behavior that occurred during a time when those games were going into the book as wins. I'm not sure what you don't understand about that.

- And never once have I referred to a period from '21-'23. I've been referring to the winning percentage during BF's seven seasons as OC. And that was also explained earlier in the thread

 

[eyesofhawk]

Yes. Taking the eventual NC and a top-10 team to the last possession of the game are more exciting to me than beating an FCS team by scoring two safeties and a FG all created by the defense. Pretty sure I am not the only one who feels that way.

Every season is completely exciting to me. But if forced to choose, '23 was more exciting to me than '25.

But again, you're making my point for me. If a fanbase is to judge a team at all, it's flat out wrong to judge a team by how exciting they are.

To not value what the team values themselves, to judge them in any other way than how they judge themselves, is incredibly unfair.

You're right about one thing though, you're definitely not the only one who has been wrong in that way