Team Blue: Help me understand what is going on in the Democratic Party

[Moral]

Yeah I wasn’t trying to imply you were that far to the left, I see you as a progressive who favors social programs and regulation. I favor regulation against the worst impulses of human behavior as well and some social programs (like Medicare for all).

I think the big issue is that some of the leaders of the DSA movement are in favor of dismantling the actual economic underpinnings of our society. This creates a brand perception issue that worries me because the GOP is going to spend gobs of money making sure progressives get labeled with the most radical ideas in the DSA platform.

I am not happy that they are claiming DSA as an organization because they are a post capitalist organization. I have been complaining about it since Bernie's first run as he isn't even a democratic socialist. He is a social democrat like me, and we would seek to keep but reform capitalism. I think this is where much of these mislabelings stem from.

I guess one could argue that if the bulk of "DSA" claiming people are actually social democrats that we have a term with two actual meanings.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

I am not happy that they are claiming DSA as an organization because they are a post capitalist organization. I have been complaining about it since Bernie's first run as he isn't even a democratic socialist. He is a social democrat like me, and we would seek to keep but reform capitalism. I think this is where much of these mislabelings stem from.

I guess one could argue that is they bulk of "DSA" claiming people are actually social democrats that we have a term with two actual meanings.

Yep. Like a said I think it has now become a major branding problem.

Understanding the difference between a classic Bernie style “Social Democrat” and a super far left ”Democratic Socialist” is hard enough for people who are plugged into politics. I’ve even seen Democrat talking heads accidentally conflate them.

And the majority of people in this country aren’t that plugged into politics, so for them it will be even harder to understand. Plus you know the GOP is going to spend a lot of money implying these are simply synonyms.

It sure would be nice for the Dems to get messaging clear for once.

 

[Moral]

It sure would be nice for the Dems to get messaging clear for once.

x1000

 

[TarponSpringsNole]

I think it’s more a belief in a social democracy that provides a very robust social safety net to ALL citizens—universal healthcare, extended maternity leave, low cost daycare, etc while still operating within a mixed economy that has some types of checks built in so as not to create the wealth accumulation, and hoarding we see today. I’m naive, I know.

This, coming from someone who was a lifelong conservative, and voted for the orange doofus twice.

 

[SB_SB]

I think the big difference between your view and mine is that you think because someone is a moderate they are more susceptible to the siren call of privilege. On the other hand I think the lesson of history is that most people are susceptible to those failings regardless of economic ideology.

Every socialist country in history has fallen prey to the same issue. Same with feudal/monarchical societies. Same with capitalist societies. In fact socialist societies have fallen prey to this 100% of the time. Full stop. There is no socialist economy that does not have an elite group creating stratification between the haves and the have nots. There is no socialist country that did not have the privileged few exploiting the masses. It does the worst job at combatting these human foibles.

It is NOT the economic system that is the failing. It is human avarice and power dynamics. So instead of throwing out the economic model, maybe we solve…you know…the actual problem.

Term limits. Bans on insider trading. Bans on self dealing. New laws to combat Citizens United. Get money out of politics one way or the other. Re-establish the role of Congress. Those are the things that matter if you actually want to change.

And this is why we need a third party. We don't need to change the system, we need to change the extremism. We need to let the left 30% vote Democrat, the right 30% vote Republican, and then let us 40% in the middle vote Middle. And then lead by example. If the middle can be successful, then you'll start to see the 30% (left and right) drop to 20%, I don't see a viable path with the two parties we have.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I was wondering when you'd chime in, Mr. Retired.

That said, I don't think we're really disagreeing. If we're talking about actual, present-day threats to our constitutional system, you should already know I'm much more concerned about MAGA authoritarianism than some imminent Islamist takeover.

My comments in this thread were mostly notional....and people asked follow-up questions that I attempted to answer and it just kinda grew from there. I haven't taken my eye off the prize.

I know… gotta yank your chain every once in a while, though.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

And this is why we need a third party. We don't need to change the system, we need to change the extremism. We need to let the left 30% vote Democrat, the right 30% vote Republican, and then let us 40% in the middle vote Middle. I then lead by example. If the middle can be successful, then you'll start to see the 30% (left and right) drop to 20%, I don't see a viable path with the two parties we have.

 

[alaskanseminole]

And this is why we need a third party. We don't need to change the system, we need to change the extremism. We need to let the left 30% vote Democrat, the right 30% vote Republican, and then let us 40% in the middle vote Middle. And then lead by example. If the middle can be successful, then you'll start to see the 30% (left and right) drop to 20%, I don't see a viable path with the two parties we have.

If only. The two parties spend too much time just trying to do the opposite of the other while the fringe voices get the loudest voices.

Today's politics:

instead of:

 

[McLovin32]

Honestly, I don't like the left and I don't like the right. I wish there was a party for me.

I remember when Elon said this, and then said he was going to create a competitive 3rd party. And then he just kept bootlicking Trump.


I'd be all for having another party to make things interesting.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

If only. The two parties spend too much time just trying to do the opposite of the other while the fringe voices get the loudest voices.

Today's politics:

instead of:

You’re hunting a unicorn. Non-cooperation has been the GOP trademark since Gingrich… and it works. Look who controls the govt.

 

[Riveting]

both parties were dominated by relative moderates for years...and look where we are now

the GOP has spent the past 10 years undergoing their "revolution" - and there are very few moderates left

now it's the democrats turn.

personally, i try to avoid all the social media-driven narratives and all the attention paid to what some random 26-year old DSA person from Brooklyn said on a podcast. i've never found those to be all that indicative of what will actually happen.

"he's a muslim communist" didn't really land with me when it was said about Obama...and it just doesn't scare me like i guess it should with this guy either.

What makes you think there are very few moderates in the GOP? Where have they gone - to the dems?

 

[Riveting]

Hong is quite the specimen lol

Even Bernie now refuses to endorse her - even though she now says Thanksgiving is her favorite holiday instead of continuing to call for it to be cancelled.

 

[Riveting]

Oh, so that explains your erection in this thread. Marvelous.

Remember how I have helped you stop posting your sexual fantasies. Time to step back.

 

[alaskanseminole]

You’re hunting a unicorn.

 

[BlIIlken2]

Guy is more American than the ***** in the White House

 

[Scrubby]

Because

Why do you constantly misrepresent me?

Serious question.

I would never. Continue your support for the radical ismalists, comrade!

Even Bernie now refuses to endorse her - even though she now says Thanksgiving is her favorite holiday instead of continuing to call for it to be cancelled.

@alaskanseminole is correct. Just because she has OD'd on lithium and takes it daily doesn't make her an addict. Glad to see Bernie not support her insanity.

 

[alaskanseminole]

@alaskanseminole is correct. Just because she has OD'd on lithium and takes it daily doesn't make her an addict. Glad to see Bernie not support her insanity.

Tell me you don't understand biplor disorder or lithium w/o actually tell me.

 

[Scrubby]

I was actually asking about the "addicted to lithium" part because that was bs. It's no secret my pop is bipolar on lithium. Lithium isn't an addictive drug like opioids or benzodiazepines. It's a mood stabilizer that's often required to keep bipolar disorder under control. Sure, a lithium overdose is a serious medical event but it's not being "addicted to lithium."

That said, if everything else you posted is accurate, then it sounds like she's not fit to serve. But let's not invent addictions that don't exist.

I understand. There is a distinction between daily usage and occasional overuseage vs addiction. Semantics aside my point still stands.

 

[Scrubby]

Just for clarity here...

When you say you "identify as" team blue, does that mean you're actually team red and probably irrevocably so, but want people to treat you as though you are team blue?

No, I'm obviously color-fluid. Stop illegitimizing my identity, bigot.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I understand. There is a distinction between daily usage and occasional overuseage vs addiction. Semantics aside my point still stands.

No, you do not understand. This isn't semantics...it's a completely different concept. Lithium isn't an addictive drug. People don't become "addicted to lithium" the way they do opioids, alcohol, nicotine, or benzodiazepines. It's a mood stabilizer prescribed for conditions like bipolar disorder, and it often takes days to weeks to reach therapeutic levels. It's taken consistently because stopping it abruptly can cause the underlying illness to return, not because the body is craving the drug.

An overdose, misuse, or lithium toxicity is a serious medical issue, but none of those are the same thing as addiction--not even remotely close. If someone has evidence she was abusing other substances or was medically unfit, then make that case. Calling her "addicted to lithium" is simply medically inaccurate and makes you sound ignorant.

 

[JMNSH0]

I'm pretty much cynical beyond rescue with all things politics at this point. I believe there is a consultant class that has captured American politics as their cash cow. I actually think that a huge part of the problem of money in politics has nothing to do with special interests buying influence over policy. I think there is a consulting class that don't really care at all about policy and only care about engagement and fund raising. That sets the ostensible agenda. The 2024 election cycle made more money for media and consulting groups than the NFL in the same year. This is all about entertainment/engagement. I think a portion of this consulting class--I'm seeing a lot of things related to a group called fight.agency (hopefully pun not intended)--has identified that the left is properly pissed and therefore ripe for a grifting. I actually support many of the socialist ideas, and I have for decades now, I simply don't trust this new shiny crowd and the handlers who have placed them in the spotlight.

 

[alaskanseminole]

I'm pretty much cynical beyond rescue with all things politics at this point. I believe there is a consultant class that has captured American politics as their cash cow. I actually think that a huge part of the problem of money in politics has nothing to do with special interests buying influence over policy. I think there is a consulting class that don't really care at all about policy and only care about engagement and fund raising. That sets the ostensible agenda. The 2024 election cycle made more money for media and consulting groups than the NFL in the same year. This is all about entertainment/engagement. I think a portion of this consulting class--I'm seeing a lot of things related to a group called fight.agency (hopefully pun not intended)--has identified that the left is properly pissed and therefore ripe for a grifting. I actually support many of the socialist ideas, and I have for decades now, I simply don't trust this new shiny crowd and the handlers who have placed them in the spotlight.

 

[BelemNole]

You know, it's amazing how the Trump admin can still affect the national consciousness with a few stupid tweets.

For the past several weeks they've been raging about 'communists' and 'socialists' and just like that you people buy into it.
There are ZERO communists/socialists winning elections in the US. There are people who want greater social safety nets or less expensive health care and so many of you nod your heads along when those on the extreme right call them these names.

Then there is the whole issue with Muslims. "I'm not a bigot.....but...you know the guy with the funny name will kill your daughter's right?"

It's honestly depressing how easily people are manipulated these days.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

So... let me get this straight... you assign objectionable roles to him - but not really - and you wonder what's wrong with the Dems? Just out of curiosity - from your "independent" perspective - do you ever hang out with people who say or do things you don't endorse?

This is a Scrubby-level obfuscation attempt.

His economic platform is far left. That’s not debatable. How far his anti-Israel and/or anti-semitic views go can be fiercely debated, I guess. But, in fairness, the next time Trump is playing footsie with a known white supremacist I will be sure to give Trump the same benefit of the doubt you are suggesting I give El-Sayed.

Oh, and for the 500th time: the fact I changed my voter registration from Republican to Independent does not mean I am middle-of-the-road and whatever other “both sides” branding you want to do of me.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

What I find hilarious about this is that in the past, when the Dems have put their finger on the scale to make sure they get more moderate candidates, the right was up in arms. When they gave Kamala Harris the candidacy without a primary process, the right was up in arms.

Now you see a pure primary happening, a more extreme left candidate being elected in the primary, and guess what? The right is up in arms.

Also hilarious, the day after this guy won the primary, the right rolls out a "terrorism expert" to claim the guy's a terrorist. I'm sure they had that information prior to the primary, but they waited until afterward to share it with the world.

I voted for Kamala.

I would not vote for this guy.

 

[RagnarLothbrok]

Because
I would never. Continue your support for the radical ismalists, comrade!

Uhhh…you do realize who the OP of this thread is, right?

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

Moderate Democrats Prepare for ‘War’ Against an Ascendant Left - The New York Times

And here's why they lose. They're more worried about the "ascendant left" than they are about the entrenched MAGA.

 

[jimneffer]

Moderate Democrats Prepare for ‘War’ Against an Ascendant Left - The New York Times

And here's why they lose. They're more worried about the "ascendant left" than they are about the entrenched MAGA.

MAGA helps them fund raise and get elected

"the ascendant left" threatens to take their jobs

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

This is all about entertainment/engagement.

The Facebook/X algorithm at work.

 

[JMNSH0]

The Facebook/X algorithm at work.

I was of a pretty like-mind with the vast majority of my inner circle for most of my adult life. I never got into twitter and I quit Facebook in 2010. Most of my inner circle stayed in the social media game. After a full decade+ of this, my friends who are on FB and X are all very aligned and seem to get seasonal selective outrage, with goalposts moving around from month to month, year to year, but they remain aligned as if they were synchronized swimmers; the handful of us who don't have an algo-feed habit seem to have more stable and unshifting beliefs.

EDIT: The social media friends also donate to campaigns and PACs now, the others not so much.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I voted for Kamala.

I would not vote for this guy.

Then you can't condemn the millions who sat out 2024 and gave us Trump. They "could not vote for THAT guy".

What I really hope for is that someday people will understand that not making a valid choice IS a choice. Nobody gets to pretend they aren't accountable for what we get.

 

[noleclone2]

I would like to add it also amazes me the republicans since the tea party days have run tons of absolutely whack jobs for the House, Senate, and Govenors, many of them even winning, and nobody really talks about that. People who are corrupt, amoral, racist, Christian nationalists, anti semitic, anti Islamic and / or sexual predators. But holy crap a literal handful of Democrats win nominations for governor and house who are DSA and one Muslim wins a Senate nomination and everyone is “OMG! What are they doing?”

 

[BelemNole]

I would like to add it also amazes me the republicans since the tea party days have run tons of absolutely whack jobs for the House, Senate, and Govenors, many of them even winning, and nobody really talks about that. People who are corrupt, amoral, racist, Christian nationalists, anti semitic, anti Islamic and / or sexual predators. But holy crap a literal handful of Democrats win nominations for governor and house who are DSA and one Muslim wins a Senate nomination and everyone is “OMG! What are they doing?”

Beat your wife? Defraud the govt? Talk about the Great Replacement theory? That's ok.
Talk about fixing healthcare or open city run grocery stores? Outrage!!

 

[SB_SB]

If only. The two parties spend too much time just trying to do the opposite of the other while the fringe voices get the loudest voices.

Today's politics:

instead of:

Most of the time they're not doing the opposite, they just claim they are or have a different version of the same thing.

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

This is a Scrubby-level obfuscation attempt.

His economic platform is far left. That’s not debatable. How far his anti-Israel and/or anti-semitic views go can be fiercely debated, I guess. But, in fairness, the next time Trump is playing footsie with a known white supremacist I will be sure to give Trump the same benefit of the doubt you are suggesting I give El-Sayed.

Oh, and for the 500th time: the fact I changed my voter registration from Republican to Independent does not mean I am middle-of-the-road and whatever other “both sides” branding you want to do of me.

I'm anti-Israel in terms of what they're doing right now. I don't GAF that they're Jewish - what they're doing is evil. I support universal access to primary health care. I support a livable minimum wage. I support going after the mega-corporations that stifle competition and concentrate wealth in the hands of a few. I'm in favor of a huge cut in our military spending.

Am I "far-left"?

 

[alaskanseminole]

The Facebook/X algorithm at work.

I read that MySpace is preparing for a non-algorithm come back. I say...

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I would like to add it also amazes me the republicans since the tea party days have run tons of absolutely whack jobs for the House, Senate, and Govenors, many of them even winning, and nobody really talks about that. People who are corrupt, amoral, racist, Christian nationalists, anti semitic, anti Islamic and / or sexual predators. But holy crap a literal handful of Democrats win nominations for governor and house who are DSA and one Muslim wins a Senate nomination and everyone is “OMG! What are they doing?”

 

[alaskanseminole]

I would like to add it also amazes me the republicans since the tea party days have run tons of absolutely whack jobs for the House, Senate, and Govenors, many of them even winning, and nobody really talks about that. People who are corrupt, amoral, racist, Christian nationalists, anti semitic, anti Islamic and / or sexual predators. But holy crap a literal handful of Democrats win nominations for governor and house who are DSA and one Muslim wins a Senate nomination and everyone is “OMG! What are they doing?”

I'd be down to talk more about MTG, but she seems to have removed the orange goggles. That was NOT on my bingo card. LOL

 

[BroncHawk]

I'm anti-Israel in terms of what they're doing right now. I don't GAF that they're Jewish - what they're doing is evil. I support universal access to primary health care. I support a livable minimum wage. I support going after the mega-corporations that stifle competition and concentrate wealth in the hands of a few. I'm in favor of a huge cut in our military spending.

Am I "far-left"?

 

[tarheelbybirth1]

I'd be down to talk more about MTG, but she seems to have removed the orange goggles. That was NOT on my bingo card. LOL

Speaking of bingo cards... bet you never even imagined having this one show up.