Team USA 12U - could they beat the all-star WPBL team?
- Thread starter dawgstudent
- Start date
I saw a few highlights over the weekend. It looked like a bad product. The Colorado Silver Bullets would’ve embarrassed every team I saw highlights of. I played on a team that was scheduled to play the CSB in old Tim MCarver stadium. We got bumped last minute for another team.
I guess everybody saw where Clay Travis offered 10 million for the WNBA champs to play his choice of high school boys champs. Hilarious that they haven't jumped on that 10 million. They already know the outcome
That dude that hit the bomb is going to have a good season at the plate. But yeah, 12U 10 run rules either of these teams.
With that pitching & defense, a lot of those dudes are going to have a good season at the plate.
I just checked in to see what the "WPBL" was . I got nothing .....I'm out .
The thing about the Clay Travis deal is he is serious and he is right. A HS boys state championship team would roll the WNBA champs. Could a WNBA team beat an average 2A boys basketball team? Probably.
There's a reason that Summit had her Tennessee teams practicing against men. Those championship teams were getting beat by a team of managers without any coaching or practice.
There's a reason that Summit had her Tennessee teams practicing against men. Those championship teams were getting beat by a team of managers without any coaching or practice.
I managed to watch just half of the youtube highlights before I lost interest.
Assuming the game was played on a WPBL field, it seems like it would be a big adjustment for the 12u team.
- the pitch speed seemed really slow in that highlight clip, but google says WPBL pitch speed is in the 70s. They pitch from 60'6"(thats MLB distance for the unaware here).
USA 12u apparently pitches from 50'(or 51') away and google says elite 12u pitch speed is in the 60s.
That alone is a huge difference.
12u is throwing from 10' closer and apparently slower. Move 12u pitchers back another 10'6" and their ball speed crossing the plate will be much slower.
12u will have more time to process the pitch when they are hitting though, which could help.
12u would, in theory, bat against pitch speeds that are faster then they are used to, so that may offset the extra distance they would have to process the pitch.
- WPBL base distance is 90'(thats MLB distance for the unaware here).
USA 12u apparently uses 75' base distance.
Again, that is a huge difference. No idea if its an advantage or disadvantage for either, but its a big difference. My guess is it would benefit the WPBL simply because they are used to the distance for base running and throws to a given base.
- WPBL field dimensions are 290'-330' to the fence.
USA 12u field dimensions are 200'-225' to the fence.
Once more, that is a huge difference. Pretty sure this would benefit the WPBL.
Assuming the game was played on a WPBL field, it seems like it would be a big adjustment for the 12u team.
- the pitch speed seemed really slow in that highlight clip, but google says WPBL pitch speed is in the 70s. They pitch from 60'6"(thats MLB distance for the unaware here).
USA 12u apparently pitches from 50'(or 51') away and google says elite 12u pitch speed is in the 60s.
That alone is a huge difference.
12u is throwing from 10' closer and apparently slower. Move 12u pitchers back another 10'6" and their ball speed crossing the plate will be much slower.
12u will have more time to process the pitch when they are hitting though, which could help.
12u would, in theory, bat against pitch speeds that are faster then they are used to, so that may offset the extra distance they would have to process the pitch.
- WPBL base distance is 90'(thats MLB distance for the unaware here).
USA 12u apparently uses 75' base distance.
Again, that is a huge difference. No idea if its an advantage or disadvantage for either, but its a big difference. My guess is it would benefit the WPBL simply because they are used to the distance for base running and throws to a given base.
- WPBL field dimensions are 290'-330' to the fence.
USA 12u field dimensions are 200'-225' to the fence.
Once more, that is a huge difference. Pretty sure this would benefit the WPBL.
I voted the WPBL because I think 12U is too young, but I think that's the last age at which the ladies would win.
First of all, good for those ladies playing baseball. I have no issue with that. Not my cup of tea, but whatever.
In my neck of the woods, I can tell you for a fact (because I've been a part of it) elite 12u pitching is in the low 70s. Above average pitching is in the low 60s. Most good teams will have 2-3 kids throwing low 60s. Every now and then, you'll see some monster throwing it 70. Happens more than I like.
70 mph at 50 foot gets there in a hurry.
If you put a national 12u team together of boys who have gone through puberty, they would likely win.
Heck, the Wildcatters 12U Elite have two pitchers who are 6' and 6'2". Tulowitzki's kid is on it. Not big, but elite ball to bat skills.
www.perfectgame.org
Heck, the Wildcatters 12U Elite have two pitchers who are 6' and 6'2". Tulowitzki's kid is on it. Not big, but elite ball to bat skills.
Wildcatters 12U Elite - Perfect Game Baseball Association
www.perfectgame.org
Number 1 in black is the chick that played softball at OM that the 17'n Savannah Bananas brought to The Dude to get some cheap heat. Another reason to dislike the Bananas.
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Its just an obvious troll job by Travis, whose entire schtick is to push wedge issues and generate controversy for content and engagement.
I dont know why anyone would even respond to such an offer, much less agree to it.
Ok, so he is right...so what? Like what does him being right even prove or accomplish? What does it change? The answer to those questions is- nothing. It accomplishes and changes nothing.
Yep, men often shadow as another team's specific player in women's basketball and volleyball college practices. And men often play against the women's team in college basketball and college volleyball. When managed correctly, it can help push the women's team to play differently than they otherwise would and allows them to play harder when compared to them playing against the bench players of their own team.
Each season we have a male 'team manager' for our HS Varsity volleyball team for a similar reason. Its always a HS student who plays Club, and the last few have gone on to play in college at a couple NAIA schools.
He helps initiate and run drills, but he also steps in and plays against the main rotation in competitive drills because it pushes the girls to play harder/smarter.
I also step in and play for the same reason sometimes. Being 6'5 largely offsets having old knees and I can get them to play harder/smarter than they otherwise need to play against Varsity bench players.
God. It’s like a Glfr/Engie combo monster. Please kill me.
Since this is yet another thread about whether a women's team could beat a kid's team, and the manufactured outrage machine is whipping society back up into a culture war tizzy, here are some comments on the overall topic.
Maybe something provides another reader here perspective that they hadnt considered. Or maybe this triggers people to go all in and vote me as the worst poster on SPS.
Speaking of being the worst poster, @dawgstudent - I recognize the comments below diverge from the thread's topic. I am embracing the chaos.
- For those who are so vocal about 'protecting women's sports'...you obviously recognize the women's game is different from the men's game, so why is there so much interest by many of you to compare them and inevitably tear down the women's sport through comparing them? Like why is that so important and how does that protect women's sports?
- If people are actually interested in 'protecting women's sports', then they will support girl's and women's sports. Its quite simple. Either support them by actually attending and following the game/team/league, or support them by not constantly bashing and tearing down the game/team/league because it isnt as good as the men's game/team/league.
- I dont support biological males playing on girl's youth teams(this is the level I care about since this is what I coach at the HS and Club level). I support keeping biological females in girl's sports.
The disingenuous argument that its inherently dangerous for males and females to play together, is exhausting.
If males and females play basketball together, it isnt actually dangerous for females...they will just likely get worked and it wont be fun.
If males and females play volleyball together, it isnt actually dangerous for females. I played coed last night. My 19yo daughter was there and was not in any danger. There are coed leagues all over the country, there are tournaments for coed play all over the country that can be very high level and competitive.
No parent of a girl in my HS program has ever even questioned whether a boy should be helping out at practices and playing against their daughter due to safety. Every year, parents treat the boy as part of the team(because he is) and offer him food at tournaments, recognize him at the banquet, etc etc. None are concerned about the safety claim..
- There is an often referenced example from a handful of years ago, where a HS girl got hit in the head by a volleyball and the attacker was possibly/probably a trans-female. The girl had a concussion. The girl was unfortunately not in the correct spot defensively, which directly led to why she got hurt. I have no idea why a player would ever go to where she went on defense because it is unsafe and exposes them to be hit hard.
Injury is always sad to see, especially preventable injury.
I have coached countless girls who would hit an opponent in the head just as hard, or harder, if the opponent was in that same incorrect defensive spot.
Maybe something provides another reader here perspective that they hadnt considered. Or maybe this triggers people to go all in and vote me as the worst poster on SPS.
Speaking of being the worst poster, @dawgstudent - I recognize the comments below diverge from the thread's topic. I am embracing the chaos.
- For those who are so vocal about 'protecting women's sports'...you obviously recognize the women's game is different from the men's game, so why is there so much interest by many of you to compare them and inevitably tear down the women's sport through comparing them? Like why is that so important and how does that protect women's sports?
- If people are actually interested in 'protecting women's sports', then they will support girl's and women's sports. Its quite simple. Either support them by actually attending and following the game/team/league, or support them by not constantly bashing and tearing down the game/team/league because it isnt as good as the men's game/team/league.
- I dont support biological males playing on girl's youth teams(this is the level I care about since this is what I coach at the HS and Club level). I support keeping biological females in girl's sports.
The disingenuous argument that its inherently dangerous for males and females to play together, is exhausting.
If males and females play basketball together, it isnt actually dangerous for females...they will just likely get worked and it wont be fun.
If males and females play volleyball together, it isnt actually dangerous for females. I played coed last night. My 19yo daughter was there and was not in any danger. There are coed leagues all over the country, there are tournaments for coed play all over the country that can be very high level and competitive.
No parent of a girl in my HS program has ever even questioned whether a boy should be helping out at practices and playing against their daughter due to safety. Every year, parents treat the boy as part of the team(because he is) and offer him food at tournaments, recognize him at the banquet, etc etc. None are concerned about the safety claim..
- There is an often referenced example from a handful of years ago, where a HS girl got hit in the head by a volleyball and the attacker was possibly/probably a trans-female. The girl had a concussion. The girl was unfortunately not in the correct spot defensively, which directly led to why she got hurt. I have no idea why a player would ever go to where she went on defense because it is unsafe and exposes them to be hit hard.
Injury is always sad to see, especially preventable injury.
I have coached countless girls who would hit an opponent in the head just as hard, or harder, if the opponent was in that same incorrect defensive spot.
I know 2 NTIS Team USA 12u kids, one from last year and one that should actually make the national team this year from Florida. The biggest challenge is those kids aren't quite as good as the 12u travel ball kids make them seem, because Team USA uses the international cutoff of January 1 for age. Travel Ball uses April 30th. You can be 8 months older in travel ball than Team USA and it makes quite the difference.If you put a national 12u team together of boys who have gone through puberty, they would likely win.
Heck, the Wildcatters 12U Elite have two pitchers who are 6' and 6'2". Tulowitzki's kid is on it. Not big, but elite ball to bat skills.
Wildcatters 12U Elite - Perfect Game Baseball Association
So it's basically an 11u team. For example, I just finished tryouts for my kids 9u travel team. Of the 12 kids on the team, only 2 would qualify as 9 under the international cutoff date this upcoming season, the rest would have to be 10u.
It doesn't seem like much going from 11-12 but, my 12 year old gained 8 MPH of velocity in the last 12 months as he's starting to get some puberty rolling. We regularly see pitching in the high 70's in 12u travel ball. 70 was extremely rare at 11u.
I'm not sure if Team USA could beat them, but the high level travel teams could because most of the 12 year olds are actually 13 and biologically more like 15-16. The one advantage the girls will have is if they are accustomed to the big field and the boys aren't... Nothing like watching that 13 year old play their first game on 60/90, even for the best players it can be very humbling.
I’m not sure who’s more outraged. The people you say are outraged or you in this thread. That’s some furious typing.
It's so incongruous to me how the same people who go on and on and on about how men absolutely should not compete in women's sports are also the same ones who love to dream up scenarios on what might happen if men competed in women's sports.
That's actually a great point, and one that the rest of this board likely ignored and won't give you credit for making. This leads to a deeper conversation and I'm about to get real with it.
So real talk......the reason most people don't care about women's sports is because they are not the best athletes. The men are, obviously. Generally, the only people who will care about women's sports are people who have a stake in it.....parents, and college fans. The college fans will watch because it's their school.
This is PRECISELY why professional women's leagues do not get traction. You can argue the rights and wrongs of it all day long, but people's interests have spoken. We have a data source - attendance and TV eyeballs. And I know someone will bring up college softball vs. college baseball.....that's not valid because the best athletes are playing MiLB and MLB, thus where the interest is. In that case, college baseball is relegated to a sport that is mainly watched by a smaller group of college fans, cheering for the name on the front of the jersey.
At the end of the day, this whole biological man and woman thing is about the dumbest 17ing shlt this world has ever come up with to argue about.
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10 million dollars is a good reason. I think that is about 30% of their income.
Yeah, it’s pretty simply a puberty thing. Once the “maleness” kicks in things change tremendously.
You really are incredible.
Completely incapable of just ignoring **** you don’t agree with, no matter how inconsequential the thread is.
Just look at how many 17’n words you’ve already typed in this thread?? It’s stunning.
What made me ask this question - I have a co-worker who used to coach high school baseball and he said he watched some highlights the other night and he asked me that question. I responded with "I know just the place to ask this question"
This entire message board is full of people posting in response to things they dont agree with. And damn near all the threads are inconsequential.
This is effectively a conversation...thats how they work.
I understand if you dont want to participate and respond to my observations and points.
Also, in responding to me, you didnt just ignore a post you dont agree with that is inconsequential and part of an inconsequential thread.
...do you not recognize that, or is it only just for me to follow?
Thanks for recognizing the comment has validity. I agree that many wont acknowledge it, for various reasons.
I think it is still worth saying, even if most ignore it.
And I totally agree that women's sports lag far behind men's sports in interest/revenue because it is a 'lesser' product. They arent the best athletes. There is genuine US interest and support in professional women's soccer and professional women's volleyball, but it seems to be heavily regionalized.
I dont see a professional women's league breaking out and gaining large overall national support in my lifetime. Itd be interesting to see it happen, but it seems highly unlikely for the reason you cited.
And I totally agree that college sports has an odd little carveout in that there is a higher level of interest because some fans/alum of that college will follow due to the sport being associated with that college.
As for your last point- yep, this manufactured argument is dumb as balls. It just continues to be pushed though. Sucks to see.
Of course I recognize it. That’s why I do it so rarely in comparison to your incredible volume of contrarian posts . It’s just not enjoyable.
Let’s have a conversation then (although it’s not going to be the length you like, because I just don’t have the patience).
Honest questions…
It’s very obvious that you are among the least admired/enjoyed posters here. You drive many folks kinda nuts.
Does this bother you at all? Do you actually enjoy it or is there just an insatiable need in you to bring everyone around to your correct way of thinking? Do you seek out disagreement? It seems you do, but maybe I’m wrong.
Do you ever think about changing your approach to maybe become a more interesting and less obtuse and just plain contrarian poster?
Is the first thing in your mind when you open SPS “Gee, I wonder what’s up in MSU sports today?” or is it “Gee, I wonder who’s typed some **** I have absolutely got to disagree with in as many words as I have time to type before my lunch break?”??
It isnt a good reason because this is just an attempt to disparage. It isnt a good faith offer, its intended to mock and minimize.
Some people working in the WNBA apparently hold a viewpoint that I disagree with and Clay Travis disagrees with. Pretty sure you also disagree with their viewpoint.
That doesnt mean the validity and talent of the league should be dragged into the conversation so it can be mocked through a bad faith offer.
Travis is an instigator, so nobody should be surprised if an attempt to instigate isnt even responded to by the other party.
Looks like women’s baseball has not quite caught on yet in Hong Kong. This was an actual 4.5 inning game in World Cup qualifying last month…
Could our offensive line block any five of those chicks? If so, we may be improved enough for a winning season.
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