Maybe. There are people who don’t like that Mark is Mormon or that he does not shy from talking about his faith, even though he does that very little. I think people would not like a coach being arrested for DUIs and having a rep as a philanderer. But, if you told me Rick was having some on the side at UK, it would not surprise me.
UK basketball headed towards worst decade in its history
- Thread starter LongliveWildcatDon
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I think people say they care about stuff like that, but if we were winning enough, no one would care. People only started to really care about Bob Knight's treatment of players when he stopped winning so much.
The same guy who was A.D. from 2010-2020 when UK went 330-77 for 81.1% with a national title, a runner-up, four final fours, and three additional Elite Eights.And for this worst decade, we need only look at who the A.D. was the whole time
'nuff said
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Are you convinced BCG gets fired after year two if not for off court issues?
Probably not. I think he was terrible on the court, so his off court “shenanigans” pushed it over the top. If dude won 30+ games with a 1 seed both years, we’d have never heard about any of the dark stuff.
Kind of inseparable. He was being an embarrassment in every possible way. Some people want to give him credit for recruiting because hey!, Patrick Patterson and Darius Miller and DeAndre Liggins. But it was also hey!, Michael Avery and Vinny Zollo and KC Ross Miller and an incredibly long list of other forgotten names that had no business being offered a scholarship to UK.
Billy Clyde was doomed the moment he became financially set for life, because money enabled his worst self. Post UK= 8-23 at Texas Tech, fired, Ranger College, managed to forfeit all games one season and get on probation for the next, quit for health reasons, .500 record at Tarleton State, though the fact that he's lasted 6 years means maybe he's gotten himself under control.
If he'd been a choir boy maybe he lasts a third season. But hard to tell, because a choir boy would have actually signed a contract so there might or might not have been financial motivation to give him one more year. BCG refusing to sign a contract made it easy for UK.
I’m not but I do think he’d been sitting on as hot of a seat that Pope will be this year.
I think he would have gotten a third year and his seat deserved to be considerably hotter than Pope's by every objective measure. I also think even had his first two years been highly successful UK would have had him on a very tight leash over the off court stuff but he most likely would have gotten a little more time to prove he could clean up his act.
The only common denominator is Mitch Barnhart. Let's hope our next decade is back to form under Batt.
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I'll just copy and paste this from above since you either missed it or chose to ignore it.
"The same guy who was A.D. from 2010-2020 when UK went 330-77 for 81.1% with a national title, a runner-up, four final fours, and three additional Elite Eights."
No facts. Just emotional conclusions, please.
Konner Tucker and GJ Vilarino. And don't forget Dekotah Euton.
There's a bunch. The issue with Duke is they can just keep stacking talent in this NIL era as they have what is seemingly unlimited $$ and the major draw amongst HS kids.
Trying to keep up with the at the HS ranks is not going to win. At some point, Scheyer will have enough talent that he'll figure out how to win.
Theory is that this years roster, rumored to be around 30mm (believeable), is a reflex to the Mullins shot as "depth" wasn't there to sustain Ngongba and Foster being banged up.
Acknowledged. I missed it. That said, I give Calipari credit for that more than the guy who hired Joker Phillips, Billy Clyde, and a swim coach for which he (allegedly) ignored red flags.
That's not to say Mitch made only bad hires. Brooks (both of them), Stoops, and Mingione are solid. From what I have heard, he was coerced to hire Calipari, but I am no insider. Stein looks like a good hire. We will see how the Pope era plays out. Mitch did offer some of the worst contracts I have ever seen to Calipari and Stoops, however.
Well ESPNs new preseason ranking just dropped UK two spots to 21st, they have 6 SEC teams ranked above them. If this holds true and UK finishes 7th or worst in the SEC, this should be the end of this Pope project.
If you are you going to blame him for failures you must give him credit for successes.
The way I heard it was he wanted to hire Cal and was blocked by Eli as told by Eli himself prior to the BCG hire.
You've listed 5 good hires vs. 2 bad hires here. I seriously doubt whether any of us have any clue about what quality of hire the swim coach was. Allegations mean nothing without verifiable facts. Was it actually confirmed the swim coach was guilty of something? I didn't pay much attention to that controversy.
I would say Rich Brooks had a massive amount to do with the Joker hire and BCG would have never been hired had Mitch not been blocked from hiring Cal at that point.
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I’ll never agree with Mitch’s philosophy on sports, but I do believe he is a good person and not the egomaniac hypocrite many say. He’s just an old-fashioned straight shooting type of guy who sees things very differently than me. Some people find his personality grating and I understand that — he isn’t exactly a people person. Awful AD by my estimation though, but my lens are different than many others. I do give Mitch flowers for raising virtually every program at the school and creating the best football program we had in 50+ years.
You got a link for that Eli quote? Not doubting you, just don’t remember that and would like to see it. Thanks.
Lee Todd Says Mitch Barnhart Wanted to Hire John Calipari Instead of Billy Gillispie
Mitch Barnhart has been widely criticized for not hiring John Calipari in 2007. The former UK President says it was his call.
He is a hypocrite and should have been gone for sure after the sexual stuff came out from the swimming team I think it was? Didn’t the cheerleaders also cause a big stir awhile back? And the golden parachute he nearly got away with. What do we not know about him that hasn’t came out?
Thanks buddy. I don’t remember that article at all. Strange I missed it. I always liked Todd a lot more than Eli.Lee Todd Says Mitch Barnhart Wanted to Hire John Calipari Instead of Billy Gillispie
Mitch Barnhart has been widely criticized for not hiring John Calipari in 2007. The former UK President says it was his call.www.on3.com
Lol, Mike Pratt would tell anyone who would listen otherwise. Lee is covering for his buddy.Lee Todd Says Mitch Barnhart Wanted to Hire John Calipari Instead of Billy Gillispie
Mitch Barnhart has been widely criticized for not hiring John Calipari in 2007. The former UK President says it was his call.
Should he have lost his job? Yes. Does it make him a bad person? No. We do not know his motivations or his direct knowledge. That stuff is very complicated and will hopefully go to trial where the specifics get sorted out. As for Barnhart himself, I’d be very shocked if he truly believed everything going on and did nothing. I don’t like him as an AD, and I’m about as outspoken as anyone about that. But I think you’re conflating two topics: whether he should be fired and whether he is an egomaniac hyprocrite are separate. I’d also rather extend a level of mercy that I want others to have with me. Now, if it becomes confirmed that he had direct knowledge (which is not the same as direct notification), this becomes a different deal imo.
What are you calling his philosophy on sports and on what basis are you callng him an awful A.D. ?
He got a email warning him about Lars' behavior and misconduct at Toledo, in the summer of 2013. He still hired the guy.
You can say that it. But it requires knowledge that I don’t have. All I KNOW is the report. Your opinion and assumptions are within your own capacity to make.
I'm pretty sure Mike Pratt was dead and gone before Eli ever said that publicly and what he would have to say about it is just a guess.
Yeah. I don’t know all the facts I just don’t think he’s the saint he was portrayed to be. Nobody is that clean after spending that much time in high D1 athletics imo.
He didn’t see his role as AD in a hierarchically motivated way that I’d agree with. His decisions flowed from that. I base him being an awful AD largely based on the influence of his philosophy. All ADs are responsible for every sport under their umbrella, but I do not believe that means those sports should be handled equitably. Mitch was excellent at building the non-major programs and I know the argument about the final fours, win percentage and titles for basketball but I see deeper issues. You can debate that the AD is not responsible for titles, but I wouldn’t agree. Just like a CEO ultimately is responsible for the bottom line of a company, the AD is ultimately responsible for the championship level of the flagship shorts program. Under Mitch’s watch, the basketball team enjoyed the lowest percentage of national titles in any AD tenure that lasted for at least 2 years. Also, he watered down the significance of being a basketball school and created a debate that has never existed out of nowhere. I see this as a serious identity problem.
On June 21, 2012, a college swimming veteran named Mark Howard sent an email to Gary Conelly, UK’s head swim coach at the time, and Mitch Barnhart, UK’s athletics director. In the email, Howard referenced Jorgensen’s time as head swim coach at the University of Toledo from 2004 to 2010.
Do you think it was his responsibility to ignore the directives given to him by his employer? I don't think it was his sole decision to focus on bringing up other sports as it was reported from the time he arrived that these were his directives from the UK administration.
I don't see where he did anything to hold basketball back. I think to have fired Tubby or Cal prior to the point they left was not reasonable and if he had been allowed to hire Cal when he originally wanted to you do not have the BCG debacle.
What exactly do you think was in his power that he should have done to win more championships?
"Under Mitch’s watch, the basketball team enjoyed the lowest percentage of national titles in any AD tenure that lasted for at least 2 years."
This is inaccurate. Harry Lancaster was A.D. for 7 years with zero titles. There are only 3 other A.D.'s that meet the criteria since 1938 besides Mitch.
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Refusing to update the Craft facility for one.
I can’t judge his job from the perspective of directives handed to him by a superior. I can only judge, as a fan, how I get he handled the expectations that I have. And he was AD for nearly a quarter century. We had the flurry of Final Fours from 2011-2015. Outside of that? Zero. Titles? One. It doesn’t mean i think he held anyone back per de but I can’t say that’s good at Kentucky. And like I said, his philosophy has created confusion to this very day. In 1999, if you said Kentucky is a basketball school, you’d be greeted with “Yeah, duh. And water is wet.” These days, if you say it people get angry and it starts fights. That’s on Mitch to me. Loss of identify and culture.
I really did not like that. To me, it goes back to showing what your philosophy is at that point. We should ALWAYS be at the top or near the tippy top in every facet of Kentucky basketball. That should be obvious.
Agree with you. It's a joke we are still practicing in an almost 20 year old building. A new one is in the works, but should have been done years ago.
Do you know that the money was sitting there available and he just refused to use it?
Do we actually know that a facility that opened in 2007 was truly in need of replacement outside of Cal openly clamoring for it? As I remember Pitino insisted Rupp needed replaced over 30 years ago.
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