If I was still coaching high school maybe I would invite your fourth grade daughter to come and be a guest speaker at one of my practices.
Miteo
- Thread starter Bob Chaewsky_rivals
- Start date
It is not a baseless, bold prediction that Powers will make great strides on defense, and as far as very few of Pike's players going from awful on defense to servicable - you just in so many words that Pike is a crappy defensive coach.
Okay, I thought you were a current coach who tends to be a loud mouth on the sidelines.
But what prevents someone who has the size and is a good enough athlete to make a jump as a defender? I could understand if physical limitations were the cause of his prior poor play on that end. Especially going from bad to average, all you have to do stop doing the stupid stuff.
Did you not read what I wrote? I said go from awful to serviceable on D in one single offseason. This conversation is about the upcoming season. Not a prediction of what Powers D would look like 2-3 years from now if he’s still around. Oskar and Hyatt improved by their third seasons at RU. But they never became great defenders and after one season were only marginally better than their first years at RU (by way of simple example).
Struggling to understand when to switch and help has nothing to do with physical athleticism or traits. Guys who suck the most at D usually do so because they either don’t expand enough effort or their understanding of when to do those things isn’t second nature. If you have to think about what you need to do, your likely going to be a step too late even if your lightning fast. It wasn’t lack of effort with Powers. He hustled but was routinely out of position playing catch up in the halfcourt sets.
Last edited:
Again, why isn’t that fixable in year? I mentioned athleticism because that is something that is not easily fixed.
Going back a few pages
as someone who certainly sees the potential in powers - mentioning him in the same breath as geo - at this point - is just silly.
im not putting geo on a pedestal but to be honest - geo was a very solid CONTRIBUTER second to Sanders his frosh year from the get-go. If that same player was on last years roster I don’t think there would be any conversation whether he would be starting (or at least playing major minutes) this year
whereas with powers - again as much as I see the POTENTIAL- he didn’t actually DO anything last year. I really believe in the kid - said it during the season - I can see this kid being a high level starter down the road - but it’s all potential… and he still may be a few years away.
geo contributed 100% more his freshman year than powers did
as someone who certainly sees the potential in powers - mentioning him in the same breath as geo - at this point - is just silly.
im not putting geo on a pedestal but to be honest - geo was a very solid CONTRIBUTER second to Sanders his frosh year from the get-go. If that same player was on last years roster I don’t think there would be any conversation whether he would be starting (or at least playing major minutes) this year
whereas with powers - again as much as I see the POTENTIAL- he didn’t actually DO anything last year. I really believe in the kid - said it during the season - I can see this kid being a high level starter down the road - but it’s all potential… and he still may be a few years away.
geo contributed 100% more his freshman year than powers did
Last edited:
Geo was on a team that was terrible and really had no guard talent outside Sanders. Williams was eh. He had to play.
His defense was better than Powers and the teams defense was better, but Geo may have been that teams worst defender, so very similar in that. Geo shot a little better, while Powers assist and rebounding rates are better. Lower TO rate.
Put Powers on that team and the situation ends up similar. Neither player is head and shoulders better/different than the other.
Kenpom said that team ranked 28th in defense…. Heck of a lot better on that end than last year’s team. Just saying. Geo was far from the worst defender on that team. Your not giving him enough credit. He filled tough defensive shoes in replacing Nigel. Did a solid job. D went from 70th to 28th. The issue with Geo was that his D didn’t improve much year over year. Not to pick on him, but kind of similar to J Mike.
Arguably - his D took a step back the following season when he exerted more energy transitioning to PG on offense. In my view, that was also a factor the other way in Caleb’s improvement from frosh to sophomore season on D. Caleb and Geo took absolutely poundings as our only PGs the following season. We were vastly improved in the paint with Eugene’s development and MJ’s arrival, but we couldn’t take care of the basketball and I believe that impacted Geo and Caleb’s D that year. Once Geo got a year under his belt at PG, and JY and Paul arrived - Caleb transitioned off ball and focused more on D.
Last edited:
Fan of powers potential but honestly don’t know what f$@k you’re even talking about .
geos team was terrible … yeah but what was last years…
again, late until the season when people were discussing the potential of Lino vs powers - I was all about powers.
but come on, he really didn’t do anything last year other than show some nice SIGNS of potential whereas geo PRODUCED his frosh year.
I mean, come on man, seriously. Other than Tariq there was no other player (particularly guard) for powers to beat out if he had the goods right now . Conversely other than Tariq what other guard on last years team contributed more than geo would have? Jmike? Come on. This is just beyond silly
could powers end up better than geo? Yeah sure. Maybe. But frosh geo vs frosh powers… this conversation is absurd.
Last edited:
Geo was more efficient as a frosh from 3 than Powers was from anywhere on the field.
Let me add to what I said before - the situations weren’t really similar at all - in fact, the two teams your comparing were as close to polar opposites as possible outside of both being bad teams. The 2017-18 team absolutely sucked at offense but was good at defense. Last year’s team wasn’t good at anything but was better on offense than defense.
One bad offensive link doesn’t hurt team metrics the way it does on D. The bottom line is it wouldn’t be possible to play a terrible defender 32 mpg and rank 28th best defense.
Yup, read it. Awfull to serviceable on D in one season is not too difficult. Obviously you know absolutely nothing about teaching defense. And my original conservation WAS NOT about the upcoming year. It was actually about Powers defense in a couple of years. I never PREDICTED anything about how good Powers defense would in 2-3 years. I only said he had a high defensive ceiling. Earlier in this thread you also said I predicted Miteo would start - again wrong. I said if it were MY TEAM I would start him or Sydnor at the 4. I never PREDICTED he would start. It's pretty clear you're the one with the reading problem.
Yes, it would be possible. If you have one bad defender you can hide him in a number of ways. Experienced coaches know the ways. You probably don't.
Yeah, maybe I should have said that teams defense was much better, but still think his D may have been teams worst.
Last years team would beat Geo freshman team, I think. Didn't that team win like 3 league games? Total production wise, of course Geo was better, he played much more, shot a touch better, and played better D. He still wasn't great. That team played 3 guards a lot, whereas LY had a Zrno, a Darren at the 3. Go by a per 40 or per possession # and production tightens. I think Powers was the teams best passer last year, but he wasn't good overall. Doesn't mean if you put him on Geo's team, with better defenders around him, that he doesn't give similar production. They both did have like the 7th best player efficiency ratings on their teams.
I don't disagree, BUT good defenders make bad ones look better also. Poor defenders make bad ones look worse. Powers would have looked a little better on that team.
so since the situations were so different you have to rely on the eye test ….
if you think powers was as good as geo as a frosh well then I don’t know what to tell you
And, again, I would not be shocked in a few years if powers was really good but, right now, this conversation is silly
Name someone from Rutgers you recall (other than Caleb - which I already proposed a theory why- it was a unique case) whose year over year D did a DRASTIC year over year turn around following their first season at RU. Possible? Yes. More likely than not - no way. Even if you can name 1 or 2- there’s no chance you can name 4 or 5 because it def didn’t happen.
You conveniently didn't mention that Geo was only 3% better from the field - 38% to 35%. From 3 - Baker 36%, a number he never came close to again, Powers 33%. From the line - Geo 79%, Powers 74%. These are not huge differences by any stretch. And remember - most Rutgers fans see Geo as one of Rutgers all time greats.
3% is actually a pretty big difference at Geo’s volume. It’s 11 more made field goals and that doesn’t even take into account how much more often Geo got to the line (per minute) than Powers as a frosh.
You stop. You sound ridiculous. Derek Simpson shot 30.5% from the field as a sophomore which qualified as WORST percentage in all D1 among players who logged meaningful minutes. If 3% of a difference is nothing to you - well then what does only being 4.4% off from the worst FG amongst all D1 players who see time?
Come on man. 34.9% shooting from the field is horrible by any standard but when your only in the game for 15 minutes and one of the weakest defensive players on a very bad defensive team (and only attempt 19 FTs), it stands out as not being good. That doesn’t mean he doesn’t have potential, or can’t improve but the data isn’t currently there for the things your predicting to be a reasonable default expectation. Just because you were impressed by a couple nice passes he made, doesn’t make the things your saying (which are largely unrelated to that) likely outcomes. He’d have to improve drastically from where he was last season to end up logging 20+ minutes unless nearly every one of the newcomers turn out to be busts. That’s the bottom line.
Except, I plainly said Geo was better.
Using that eye test though, you put Powers in Geo's place on that particular team, I'm not sure the results are much different. My guess is if Powers was given the PT that Geo had he would have played w a little more confidence and poised, not jacking up shots at rapid rate because he knew he wouldn't be out there long. A lot of similarities.
the problem is your hypothesis depends on a LOT of “ifs” and “maybes”
kinda reminds of that saying - if my grandmother had wheels she’d be a bicycle
Last edited:
Well, the eye test depends on what one's interpretation of what they are seeing also, so lots of its and maybes there. Maybe grandma was ridden alot? Could have been like a bike without wheels?
Ok, I sound ridiculous - 35% from the field is awfull but 38% is somehow good? Three years later Geo was pretty much the same player, except his 3 point shooting was worse. Powers is already a better passer, he'll end up a better defender, and he'll end up shooting better than Geo from the field and from three, maybe even from the line.
V
Of course Powers isn’t competing against Geo. He isn’t close to pushing Francis at the 2 and even much maligned Jamichael Davis’s stats are better than his. We will see how much playing time he gets with alias Smith and Jones joining the team.
The only thing remotely similar about the 2 of them at this point are the style of shots they took.This alone in a vaccuum says absolutely nothing about Powers future potential (good or bad).
He demonstrated nothing whatsoever to suggest as someone put it “Geo only better”. He shot 3% lower than Geo overall, 3.5% lower from 3 (with an identical portion of his attempts from long range), and got to the FT line far less often per min played. Concluding that he would’ve been more efficient if he played more because he wouldn’t have forcing thing is an assumption based, quite literally, on nothing. If he played better D last year he would’ve played more. The competion sucked and yet he still only earned 15 mpg. That’s the bottom line. He was highly inefficent as a scorer, much less so overall than Geo whose strength wasn’t efficiency to begin with. And yes - those metrics combine to qualify for “much” worse even of one wants to say 3% overall isn’t meaningful (which isn’t even true) but when you factor in that one guy was also better from 3 and took more than 3 times as many FTs (65 vs 19), it’s certainly significant.
Geo was huge when it came to be clutch for us hitting big shot after big shot. There’s no evidence that Powers is going to have a nack for doing this (nothing to point to over any other player). And your really insulting Geo by implying that Powers D was similar except that the surrounding cast was worse. Thats simply garbage. Geo came in and beat out a veteran incumbent guard in Mike Williams who had averaged over 26 mpg for Pike the year before despite playing with 2 good guard defenders in Corey and Nigel. Williams time went down to 23 mpg, much of which he played with Geo in a 3 guard line up because Geo earned his minutes that season on both ends. There may not have been guard depth but Pike had other line up options. He had Eugene and Thiam to share minutes with Freeman and the Dourson / Duke combo at the 5. Just like Pike could’ve used Powers more at the 3 with such few options at forward. His D stunk - he didn’t earn it. Plain and simple. You really have to twist things in a pretzel to make it out to be more than this. That doesn’t mean he won’t turn things around and have a better year this season. But that’s what last season was regardless of what Powers develops into.
Last edited:
True - but to be fair, I don’t think you can compare J Mike’s shooting efficiency to the others because he’s not the same type of scorer. J Mike has not in 4 years demonstrated an ability to create for himself and mostly only attempts shots where he’s wide open.
True- but in the 3 years J Mike has played at Rutgers he has improved by not forcing shots as much. Powers does have the ability to create his own shot, but too many of them are mid range jumpers which are lower percentage shots which he makes at a lower percentage than most coaches would like.
Yeah - I’m not really following what his or Bob’s arguments even are. Maybe if Powers played on a team like Geo’s he would’ve forced the issue even more (alla Simpson). That team had very few options outside of Sanders and Freeman cleaning things up inside. There’s really no basis for what he hypothesized. It’s not that Powers player a Montez / J Young style force game to prove himself driving into traffic. He created space for himself to get his midrange off (similar to Geo) - he just didn’t hit it efficiently and seemed to fade away rather than embrace contact (hence only 9 trips to the line all season).
As for Bob’s comments - those are even more baffling to me. Geo wasn’t efficient. That’s not why he was a “RU great”. The premise that it should be viewed as a positive in any way that Powers only made 3% less of his shots as a frosh than a “RU great” makes no sense at all. Efficiency isn’t at all why Geo was great.
The bottom line is 34.9% shooting from the floor stands out as very bad on a national level for someone who is not an elite defender (never mind being simply servicable) and doesn’t get to the FT line. Out of 2,379 D1 players to log 15.7 mpg or more, only 92 of them (under 4% made a lower percentage). Of those 92, most were on the court for their D specifically and/or got to the FT line a heck of a lot more than 19 attempts. Only 9 of those 92 players played on high major teams. There’s no way to frame this level of efficiency as anything other than poor. Again, that doesn’t mean it can’t and won’t improve - it’s just not where he left off last year and suggesting otherwise is just silly.
Oh - I completely agree on Powers. Nothing he showed last year as a scorer could be considered impressive because of how poor his advanced efficiency was.
All I’m saying is that if J Mike earns more Pt, it wouldn’t likely be for his explosive scoring ability. J Mike only took 19 more shots than Kaden all season despite playing double the minutes. If/when we need his ball handling, mature leadership, etc. - he’ll play. To see meaningful PT beyond the 15 mph he got last year, Kaden has to be much better at D and considerably more efficient. Those aren’t minor hurdles.
Latest
-
01
The Knight Report
ESPN adds Jason McCourty to Monday Night Football crew
-
02
The Knight Report
Rutgers Football Training Camp Preview: Will the Scarlet Knights go bowling? - TKR Pod
-
03
The Knight Report
Rutgers RB Antwan Raymond named to 2026 Maxwell Award preseason watch list
-
04
The Knight Report
Rutgers Football 3-2-1: Lots of storylines as Training Camp set to begin
-
05
On3
As the Big Ten vs. SEC battle rages, a deeper look at how schools have fared against opponents ranked in the final AP Top 25