EARLY 2026-27 lineup projections/discussions

[Nitlion1986]

You mean if they have to return to being closer to “student” athletes again?

I mean a bunch of older adults erasing economic opportunities for a bunch of younger adults.

 

[PSUer89]

I mean a bunch of older adults erasing economic opportunities for a bunch of younger adults.

Actually, in this case, the younger guys have 5 years coming. They have more economic opportunities available to them than the current group

 

[LB99]

I mean a bunch of older adults erasing economic opportunities for a bunch of younger adults.

The pendulum has swung waaay too far in the other direction. Those “economic opportunities” for the younger adults have ruined the entire product. Some guidelines need to be set. Perhaps, part of that, gets back to the historical root of the position, which requires the younger adults to be students first and not jump schools every year for athletics and looking for a bag of cash.

 

[LB99]

I'm not sure he gets overlooks as much as I'm not sure a healthy Kasak exists, very unfortunately.

That a fair point for sure, but to blatantly overlook the kid and anoint a 17 yr old true freshman as the automatic starter seems a bit short sighted at this point. I kindof feel like Kasak was underestimated by many here in his entire PSU experience, from being recruited until now.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Actually, in this case, the younger guys have 5 years coming. They have more economic opportunities available to them than the current group

Not if or when they pass a law restricting what they can earn in those 5 years.

 

[Nitlion1986]

The pendulum has swung waaay too far in the other direction. Those “economic opportunities” for the younger adults have ruined the entire product. Some guidelines need to be set. Perhaps, part of that, gets back to the historical root of the position, which requires the younger adults to be students first and not jump schools every year for athletics and looking for a bag of cash.

That is your opinion. If your child was one of those student athletes your opinion is most likely different.
Indiana and Texas Tech football fans seem to like the new model.

My point, and it is rather simple, is everybody except those student-athletes seem to be getting a say in how the new model will work. Since the student-athlete is going to be the one bearing the burden of the new restrictions and nobody represented their interests, I doubt that law survives legal challenges.

 

[Matter7172]

Is anyone worried that we end up losing James if Levi comes back? Everyone is talking like a greyshirt is a no brainer but James can compete for a national title this year. Maybe he doesn’t want to sit and decides to go somewhere he can wrestle this year. Losing him would not be worth 1 more year of Levi in my opinion

OTOH, it's not like a year focusing on wrestling in the best room in the world is going to make his chances of winning five titles worse.

 

[LB99]

That is your opinion. If your child was one of those student athletes your opinion is most likely different.
Indiana and Texas Tech football fans seem to like the new model.

My point, and it is rather simple, is everybody except those student-athletes seem to be getting a say in how the new model will work. Since the student-athlete is going to be the one bearing the burden of the new restrictions and nobody represented their interests, I doubt that law survives legal challenges.

Yes. That’s my opinion. My opinion is that athletes have been getting preferential treatment from adults for years because they could run fast or throw a ball far. Now, some are millionaires coming out of HS. Do you not see an issue here? It is a product of our society that has misguided priorities. Acting like these “student” athletes are getting the short end of the stick is ridiculous. They are employees now. Not “student” athletes. There should be guidelines put on their compensation before this disaster gets any worse. FYI. My child is the one paying full tuition on a ridiculously inflated tuition model and trying to figure out how to pay for that while studying to make an actual difference in society when they graduate.

 

[LB99]

That is your opinion. If your child was one of those student athletes your opinion is most likely different.
Indiana and Texas Tech football fans seem to like the new model.

My point, and it is rather simple, is everybody except those student-athletes seem to be getting a say in how the new model will work. Since the student-athlete is going to be the one bearing the burden of the new restrictions and nobody represented their interests, I doubt that law survives legal challenges.

If the “student” athletes want to organize and attempt to represent themselves, they are free to do that, no? Then they may correctly be labeled as employees and be required to abide by employment laws and taxation laws, right. I say go for it.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Yes. That’s my opinion. My opinion is that athletes have been getting preferential treatment from adults for years because they could run fast or throw a ball far. Now, some are millionaires coming out of HS. Do you not see an issue here? It is a product of our society that has misguided priorities. Acting like these “student” athletes are getting the short end of the stick is ridiculous. They are employees now. Not “student” athletes. There should be guidelines put on their compensation before this disaster gets any worse.

It doesn't make any difference if I think I see an issue or if you think you see an issue. My guess is we see different issues. The point is just because you think it is an issue that a kid is coming out of HS a millionaire, that doesn't mean there is an issue. The kid and his family probably aren't seeing the same issue as you.

Just passing a law that says despite alumni wanting to make that kid a millionaire, they aren't allowed to do that now. They can give the kid 20,000 instead. That isn't going to survive. Nor IMO should it.

 

[LB99]

It doesn't make any difference if I think I see an issue or if you think you see an issue. My guess is we see different issues. The point is just because you think it is an issue that a kid is coming out of HS a millionaire, that doesn't mean there is an issue. The kid and his family probably aren't seeing the same issue as you.

Just passing a law that says despite alumni wanting to make that kid a millionaire, they aren't allowed to do that now. They can give the kid 20,000 instead. That isn't going to survive. Nor IMO should it.

I will never feel bad for kids making big money because they can run, jump, or throw. You aren’t going to convince me otherwise. If they don’t like the compensation, then don’t play. I really don’t care. They are free to enroll as a regular student and actually work for a degree that will last them their whole life if they want.

 

[LB99]

It doesn't make any difference if I think I see an issue or if you think you see an issue. My guess is we see different issues. The point is just because you think it is an issue that a kid is coming out of HS a millionaire, that doesn't mean there is an issue. The kid and his family probably aren't seeing the same issue as you.

Just passing a law that says despite alumni wanting to make that kid a millionaire, they aren't allowed to do that now. They can give the kid 20,000 instead. That isn't going to survive. Nor IMO should it.

I presume you are making large donations to PSU NIL since you feel so strongly that the “student” athletes are getting hosed?

 

[Nitlion1986]

If the “student” athletes want to organize and attempt to represent themselves, they are free to do that, no? Then they may correctly be labeled as employees and be required to abide by employment laws and taxation laws, right. I say go for it.

Several programs have petitioned, universities universally push back. If they (NCAA, Big10 and SEC) want some sort agreement that works and lasts they need to include student-athlete representation to whatever Cruz is putting together.

I am not certain why folks seem to be AOK with older adults taking money away from younger adults.

 

[LB99]

Several programs have petitioned, universities universally push back. If they (NCAA, Big10 and SEC) want some sort agreement that works and lasts they need to include student-athlete representation to whatever Cruz is putting together.

I am not certain why folks seem to be AOK with older adults taking money away from younger adults.

I am not certain why folks seem to be AOK with watching younger adults pretend to be students while paying them large somes of cash because they can throw ball and then have them demand more next year or they go somewhere else that will give them a bigger bag of cash and then see them do it again after that year too. There has to be guidelines. Our whole society is based on guidelines. Why would anyone be against guidelines to corral this nonsense to a reasonable level? It’s a free for all right now. It’s not sustainable.

 

[Nitlion1986]

I will never feel bad for kids making big money because they can run, jump, or throw. You aren’t going to convince me otherwise. If they don’t like the compensation, then don’t play. I really don’t care. They are free to enroll as a regular student and actually work for a degree that will last them their whole life if they want.

Obviously, you do care BIGLY.

The other side to your, "free to enroll as a regular student" statement is nobody is holding a gun to any alumni head to give the 18 year-old QB a million dollar sign-on bonus. Nobody is forcing anybody to participate in the bidding wars. Apparently though, there seems to be a market for young people who can throw better, run faster, jump higher or just plow people over easier.

 

[LB99]

Obviously, you do care BIGLY.

The other side to your, "free to enroll as a regular student" statement is nobody is holding a gun to any alumni head to give the 18 year-old QB a million dollar sign-on bonus. Nobody is forcing anybody to participate in the bidding wars. Apparently though, there seems to be a market for young people who can throw better, run faster, jump higher or just plow people over easier.

Exactly! Stop paying these kids millions. Put some regulations on it.

 

[Wrestleknownothing]

Yes. That’s my opinion. My opinion is that athletes have been getting preferential treatment from adults for years because they could run fast or throw a ball far. Now, some are millionaires coming out of HS. Do you not see an issue here? It is a product of our society that has misguided priorities. Acting like these “student” athletes are getting the short end of the stick is ridiculous. They are employees now. Not “student” athletes. There should be guidelines put on their compensation before this disaster gets any worse. FYI. My child is the one paying full tuition on a ridiculously inflated tuition model and trying to figure out how to pay for that while studying to make an actual difference in society when they graduate.

A couple of thoughts.

In a prior post you referred to ruining the product. The athletes are the product because, make no mistake, the schools turned them into a product. And they kept the profits for themselves. Do not be fooled by the non-profit status of the university, that just meant that administrators and coaches could inflate their salaries to insane levels while also inflating their budgets to consume all that revenue.

And the one thing the athletes are not is employees. The NCAA will fight to the death to ensure they are not recognized as employees. It is one of the key provisioms of the SCORE Act that it be written into law that the athletes are not employees. The NCAA does not want to collectively bargain because they know it will cost them much more than 22%

 

[Nitlion1986]

I presume you are making large donations to PSU NIL since you feel so strongly that the “student” athletes are getting hosed?

Good Lord dude, what does my donation status have to do with anything we are discussing? I mean other than nothing.

Whether I think they are getting hosed also has nothing to do with it.

The goofballs running things don't like all the money they keep throwing out there. Since they can't help themselves they are asking Congress to write a law to forbid them from doing so, and to artificially restrict the student-athlete's freedom of choices.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Exactly! Stop paying these kids millions. Put some regulations on it.

Just wondering. If your kid was coming out of HS and was viewed as the next Peyton Manning and every college program was lined up trying to stuff more money into his bank account that anybody in your family had ever imagined possible, how would you feel about Congress passing a law that said he couldn't have that money?

 

[LB99]

Good Lord dude, what does my donation status have to do with anything we are discussing? I mean other than nothing.

Whether I think they are getting hosed also has nothing to do with it.

The goofballs running things don't like all the money they keep throwing out there. Since they can't help themselves they are asking Congress to write a law to forbid them from doing so, and to artificially restrict the student-athlete's freedom of choices.

Make no mistake, I don’t like the goofballs running things or congress and I have zero confidence that anything worthwhile will come out of this. My issue is having “student” athletes making more than doctors, nurses, teachers, police officers, firemen, etc while the real students on campus can barely afford to get their education while working towards actually having an impact on society when they graduate. It’s a effed up world we live in and I will never feel bad for those making the millions. I am astonished that anyone can look at the current state of “college” sports and think everything is working out just fine. It’s mind boggling.

 

[LB99]

Just wondering. If your kid was coming out of HS and was viewed as the next Peyton Manning and every college program was lined up trying to stuff more money into his bank account that anybody in your family had ever imagined possible, how would you feel about Congress passing a law that said he couldn't have that money?

We both know that isn’t getting passed. We also both know that there needs to be guardrails put on this disaster because the NCAA implemented this with no guard rails or foresight into the pitfalls. The only way anyone is supporting this wild west model is if their kid is the one making the millions.

 

[LB99]

A couple of thoughts.

In a prior post you referred to ruining the product. The athletes are the product because, make no mistake, the schools turned them into a product. And they kept the profits for themselves. Do not be fooled by the non-profit status of the university, that just meant that administrators and coaches could inflate their salaries to insane levels while also inflating their budgets to consume all that revenue.

And the one thing the athletes are not is employees. The NCAA will fight to the death to ensure they are not recognized as employees. It is one of the key provisioms of the SCORE Act that it be written into law that the athletes are not employees. The NCAA does not want to collectively bargain because they know it will cost them much more than 22%

Good points. I don’t care how they are labeled. Employees, non employees, etc. Just stop pampering these teenage millionaires. Make them pay their fair share of taxes, buy their own insurance, etc. Just like everyone else.

 

[Sunshinedynomite 1]

Brilliant idea! I like it, I always told my people -bring me solutions not complaints!!

Or PSU Altoona team so we can finish 1st and 2nd

 

[PSUer89]

The pendulum has swung waaay too far in the other direction. Those “economic opportunities” for the younger adults have ruined the entire product. Some guidelines need to be set. Perhaps, part of that, gets back to the historical root of the position, which requires the younger adults to be students first and not jump schools every year for athletics and looking for a bag of cash.

Oh. I agree there are a lot of problems as things currently stand. I thought you were opposed to Levi and others taking opportunities from incoming recruits- misunderstood you

 

[LB99]

Oh. I agree there are a lot of problems as things currently stand. I thought you were opposed to Levi and others taking opportunities from incoming recruits- misunderstood you

No worries. I’m not at all against Levi or anyone else using the 5 for 5 to their advantage. We need guidelines on NIL, player payments, gifts, etc. This is nuts. In the meantime, the average Joe can barely (or not at all) pay for their kids to go to college to get a worthwhile degree. The priorities are upside down.

 

[Nitlion1986]

Good points. I don’t care how they are labeled. Employees, non employees, etc. Just stop pampering these teenage millionaires. Make them pay their fair share of taxes, buy their own insurance, etc. Just like everyone else.

The money they are getting is taxable.

 

[LB99]

*

 

[Hotshoe]

While writing this law Cruz and his peers have listened to what Nick Saban thinks is good for college football, they have heard from the NCAA, the Big10 and SEC. I haven't read anything about any student-athletes being ask what they think, nor any having any input. If these student-athletes see their annual incomes decline from several million a year to a couple hundred thousand, or maybe drop from a couple hundred thousand to 25,000 a year and their ability to shop their services to a higher bidder is restricted due to transfer restrictions and these haven't been negotiated I have a tough time seeing that survive a court challenge.

I wouldn't worry about income. Fact is, very, very few athletes are making a $million bucks per year. It's a tiny percentage, like around 1% of football and basketball. Most make around $50k/yr. It's not nearly what people think it is.

 

[Hotshoe]

Not if or when they pass a law restricting what they can earn in those 5 years.

They are no different than a pro athlete. If they have a salary cap, that won't mean NIL goes away. Nothing has stopped pro athletes from doing commercial work outside of sports.

 

[Hotshoe]

Just wondering. If your kid was coming out of HS and was viewed as the next Peyton Manning and every college program was lined up trying to stuff more money into his bank account that anybody in your family had ever imagined possible, how would you feel about Congress passing a law that said he couldn't have that money?

I think you're confusing NIL funds with the NCAA allotment from the universities. No one is touching NIL as long as it's legit and passes the clearing house.

 

[HOA242n!]

Yes. That’s my opinion. My opinion is that athletes have been getting preferential treatment from adults for years because they could run fast or throw a ball far. Now, some are millionaires coming out of HS. Do you not see an issue here? It is a product of our society that has misguided priorities. Acting like these “student” athletes are getting the short end of the stick is ridiculous. They are employees now. Not “student” athletes. There should be guidelines put on their compensation before this disaster gets any worse. FYI. My child is the one paying full tuition on a ridiculously inflated tuition model and trying to figure out how to pay for that while studying to make an actual difference in society when they graduate.

What I don't understand is who the heck is funding these collectives? I am about as big of college sports fan as anybody, and I have been fairly successful; if one of my three alma maters asked me to pitch in to help them buy some 17yr old football player, I'd ask them to please lose my number.

I'm pretty darn close to a free market absolutist and it is none of my business what people throw their money at, but it does bother me a fair bit that as a culture we prioritize sports to the point where college (and even some high school) athletes are making HUGE money. How does some backup OL at state U have "name, image, likeness" value in our market that exceeds that of a mid-career professional doing actual work? I was a college athlete when the only benefits were under the table (and I didn't get jack but a preferential on campus job, which helped me buy enough food to maintain my weight because the school was not allowed to provide us free/unlimited food), and I still felt like a king walking around campus. I felt disconnected to the regular student body because of my preferential treatment, what does the general student body today think of these young men who are driving to campus in Lamborghinis while they're saddled with decades of debt for what these fellow "students" are already getting for free (along with the Lambo)?

I don't have any answers, but I absolutely hate the current direction.

 

[mvattivo]

I am not certain why folks seem to be AOK with watching younger adults pretend to be students while paying them large somes of cash because they can throw ball and then have them demand more next year or they go somewhere else that will give them a bigger bag of cash and then see them do it again after that year too. There has to be guidelines. Our whole society is based on guidelines. Why would anyone be against guidelines to corral this nonsense to a reasonable level? It’s a free for all right now. It’s not sustainable.

My simple thought was that prior to NIL, I felt like the athletes were getting screwed over a bit. I mean the Universities, coaches, admins, etc. were making all kinds of money based on what the athletes were able to accomplish. Now, I feel like it has moved too far in the other direction. I just don't like seeing kids transferring all over the place. I'm more concerned about that than the fact that kids are getting paid.

 

[ClarkstonMark]

this used to be a cool thread

 

[JA1339]

Isn’t this the thread about our lineup? 🫩

 

[randyl]

Isn’t this the thread about our lineup? 🫩

Nope.
You missed the left turn.
Need to retrace your steps about a qrtr-mile.

 

[Psalm 1 guy]

Isn’t this the thread about our lineup? 🫩

Time for a @mcpat poll on whether Tom should consolidate this thread with one related to NIL?

 

[BriantheLion]

Time for a @mcpat poll on whether Tom should consolidate this thread with one related to NIL?

It’s become enough of a pissing match that I forgot I was in a wrestling thread and not football or basketball!

 

[Goggles Paisano]

So where do we stand for top level talent in 3 or 4 of the best wrestling programs?

Just a decent, not extreme, example:

5 year scholy for tuition = $250k. Check
5 year room and board = $75. Check
A decent 5 year NIL package = $500k. Check
NCAA profit sharing = $100k. Just a guess

That is nearly pushing a million bucks, and we are talking a minor, almost niche sport. I think things have gone way too far, but then again many things have tripled since Covid, and you can't fault the kids for squeezing out every last drop.

What the heck do I know? I still prefer the Olympics when they were all amateur athletes.

 

[El_Jefe]

So where do we stand for top level talent in 3 or 4 of the best wrestling programs?

Just a decent, not extreme, example:

5 year scholy for tuition = $250k. Check
5 year room and board = $75. Check
A decent 5 year NIL package = $500k. Check
NCAA profit sharing = $100k. Just a guess

That is nearly pushing a million bucks, and we are talking a minor, almost niche sport. I think things have gone way too far, but then again many things have tripled since Covid, and you can't fault the kids for squeezing out every last drop.

What the heck do I know? I still prefer the Olympics when they were all amateur athletes.

We're giving tuition-only scholarships, not including room/board, worth $8k/year more than non-resident tuition, and $21k/year more than PA resident tuition?

 

[SleepyLion]

We're giving tuition-only scholarships, not including room/board, worth $8k/year more than non-resident tuition, and $21k/year more than PA resident tuition?

I was just wondering where I can live and eat for the next 5 years for only $75.