Francesca Hong (DSA) for Wisconsin Governor

[Jerome Silberman]

Your choices are MAGA or Socialist.

Seriously?

God we need a common-sense, centrist, third party for all the normal democrats and republicans.

Both major parties would be exactly that, like they were prior to about 2007, if that cohort weren't so fickle and lazy.

This is not happening to moderates, it's happening partly because of them and it won't quit until they stop expecting things to revert to where they're comfortable and start exerting their power.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

I think you're missing what we are talking about here. Because Huey is talking about moderates not being viable compared to the socialists. You're talking about Trump, who is a liar POS that I can't stand and can't wait to get rid of. And if it's a choice between moderates and these effing nutbag socialists, there's nothing to think about.

When did I say that moderates aren't viable? They're more than viable. But so are the progressives.

My point is that the moderates don't care about the working and middle class all that much. Certainly more than the Trumpers do, but it's pretty token respect being paid.

 

[o_wausauhawk]

I think you're missing what we are talking about here. Because Huey is talking about moderates not being viable compared to the socialists. You're talking about Trump, who is a liar POS that I can't stand and can't wait to get rid of. And if it's a choice between moderates and these effing nutbag socialists, there's nothing to think about.

My point is there are no moderates in this race. Hong wasn't my 1st choice, but I'm 100% voting for her over an election denying Trump enabler.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

We've provided ample examples over the years: end citizens united, move to single payer, raise taxes on the wealthy, end buy, borrow, die, cut military spending, raise the payroll tax.

And do you know why none of these can get implemented? Because we keep voting corporate centrists into office who kill these measures.

Stop voting for corporate centrists. Sure they're not going to destroy the nation like Trump is. But they also have zero interest in achieve any of the goals I just laid out

There are plenty of centrists in this world who aren’t pro corporate vested interests. You act like being a centrist is synonymous with being in bed with corporations. It doesn’t have to be that way. The dem candidate for Iowa’s governor race is one such person IMO.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

There are plenty of centrists in this world who aren’t pro corporate vested interests. You act like being a centrist is synonymous with being in bed with corporations. It doesn’t have to be that way. The dem candidate for Iowa’s governor race is one such person IMO.

I can't remember the last centrist who voted for single payer and big cuts to defense. As far as Sand goes I'm willing to bet he will be closer to a Joe Manchin than an AOC.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

I can't remember the last centrist who voted for single payer and big cuts to defense. As far as Sand goes I'm willing to bet he will be closer to a Joe Manchin than an AOC.

And I can’t remember the last socialist leader who didn’t f*ck up their country. I guess we are going to disagree on the best path forward while at the same time we agree that corporate special interests in politics is ruining the country.

Sorry Huey, I can’t get on board with the DSA…I just can’t.

 

[PedMaller]

F’ck this……wouldn’t fly in a sane RED state like Iowa.

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

I stopped watching Foxnews in 2006. It hasn't changed, at all.

 

[PedMaller]

I stopped watching Foxnews in 2006. It hasn't changed, at all.

Did you see where that nutjob got triggered by old white people at Culver’s??

Not sure who’s crazier….her or those that vote thinking she’s the best option to lead Wisky.

 

[o_wausauhawk]

Did you see where that nutjob got triggered by old white people at Culver’s??

Not sure who’s crazier….her or those that vote thinking she’s the best option to lead Wisky.

Tiffany thinks Trump won the 2020 election. Which tells me he's either (1) an absolute moron or (2) knows better but has sold his soul to MAGA.

 

[PW Herman]

And I can’t remember the last socialist leader who didn’t f*ck up their country. I guess we are going to disagree on the best path forward while at the same time we agree that corporate special interests in politics is ruining the country.

Sorry Huey, I can’t get on board with the DSA…I just can’t.

You're most likely older so it wasn't something anyone expected you to "get on board" with. You probably get Social Security and own your house. You're nice and cozy.

Like Huey said, there is a generation who aren't and most likely will never be cozy like you are. They're pissed at the establishment. They're trying to change the establishment. Looks like they're getting some traction regardless of how much you,.Moogy, or YS don't want it to happen.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

You're most likely older so it wasn't something anyone expected you to "get on board" with. You probably get Social Security and own your house. You're nice and cozy.

Like Huey said, there is a generation who aren't and most likely will never be cozy like you are. They're pissed at the establishment. They're trying to change the establishment. Looks like they're getting some traction regardless of how much you,.Moogy, or YS don't want it to happen.

You jump to so many conclusions. Why do you do that? I’m 53. Social security won’t be solvent by the time I get to retirement age. Yes I own a house - I worked extremely hard for 30+ years to get where I am. A small kid from a family farm near Fort Dodge who received no family money or government aid to go to college (although college was affordable back then - separate topic that we need to address). My first job was walking beans at 12 years old and I never stopped. I had part time restaurant jobs all through college. I routinely worked 80+ hours/week post college to make the life I wanted. Now one can say that is not a good thing (it cost me my first marriage) and I’m not suggesting others do that.

But when you seem to indict my worldview because I’m well off…just remember I worked my a$$ off to get where I am. I wasn’t handed a damn thing. So it baffles me when I see people who seem to think we should all get the same stuff regardless of work ethic.

And of course the DSA is getting traction with the progressive dem base. That’s obvious. But popularity and traction with a political base does not always correlate to popularity in society at large. Nor does it correlate to a good path for our country. To see the clearest evidence of that perhaps you should go to Wikipedia and look up:

Trump, Donald

I’m telling you now the Dems may take the house in 26, but if y’all keep embracing the most radical of these DSA types you will get steamrolled in 2028.

Steamrolled.

 

[Palmerhawk]

You jump to so many conclusions. Why do you do that? I’m 53. Social security won’t be solvent by the time I get to retirement age. Yes I own a house - I worked extremely hard for 30+ years to get where I am. A small kid from a family farm near Fort Dodge who received no family money or government aid to go to college (although college was affordable back then - separate topic that we need to address). My first job was walking beans at 12 years old and I never stopped. I had part time restaurant jobs all through college. I routinely worked 80+ hours/week post college to make the life I wanted. Now one can say that is not a good thing (it cost me my first marriage) and I’m not suggesting others do that.

But when you seem to indict my worldview because I’m well off…just remember I worked my a$$ off to get where I am. I wasn’t handed a damn thing. So it baffles me when I see people who seem to think we should all get the same stuff regardless of work ethic.

And of course the DSA is getting traction with the progressive dem base. That’s obvious. But popularity and traction with a political base does not always correlate to popularity in society at large. Nor does it correlate to a good path for our country. To see the clearest evidence of that perhaps you should go to Wikipedia and look up:

Trump, Donald

I’m telling you now the Dems may take the house in 26, but if y’all keep embracing the most radical of these DSA types you will get steamrolled in 2028.

Steamrolled.

Geez traveler....you could be my doppelganger...cept for CEO deal.
Grew up on farm,35 miles NW of FD
Walked many acres of beans
Went to Iowa,worked at hospital to make it
Moved to Chicago,post grad
Worked and lived in area for 35 yrs
Divorced,2 kids
Retired, back on farm in .iowa
Not a DSA guy.
Am on SS.
My kids own their homes.

 

[PW Herman]

You jump to so many conclusions. Why do you do that? I’m 53. Social security won’t be solvent by the time I get to retirement age. Yes I own a house - I worked extremely hard for 30+ years to get where I am. A small kid from a family farm near Fort Dodge who received no family money or government aid to go to college (although college was affordable back then - separate topic that we need to address). My first job was walking beans at 12 years old and I never stopped. I had part time restaurant jobs all through college. I routinely worked 80+ hours/week post college to make the life I wanted. Now one can say that is not a good thing (it cost me my first marriage) and I’m not suggesting others do that.

That paragraph right there should tell you why they're so upset. Doing all of those things you listed above (working hard, saving, etc) doesn't get them to the same position you are. It's the same game but not the same rules anymore. So it's great folks like you and I were lucky enough to have a great house, a nest egg, etc but these kids will struggle to get there unless things change.

My parents bought their first house in 1980 for $37,000. Something my grandparents thought was expensive. I bought mine in 2008 for $100,000+ and sold it in 2022 for just under $200,000 to some 20 something kid. It's doubled it two decades and is around 6x greater than when my parents bought their first house. Not a sustainable model.

So of course you want the establishment. I do to for what I've been able do for my efforts. Young people want the same opportunity we got and they don't see it with the establishment at present. We'll see how they vote in 26 and beyond.

 

[magaboy]

The Democrats had 10 years to do something about Trump, and he's more powerful and dangerous than ever.

Reap the whirlwind, Dems. This is the bed you've made.

 

[PW Herman]

And @hawkeyetraveler something else. My old man worked in the public sector for 40+ years. Retired in 2020 with an IPERS pension. That means he'll receive 70% of his highest 3 salaries for the rest of his life. On top of that, my mom will continue to receive it until her passing (if she goes after him). That's wonderful and a great way to budget for retirement.

Thankfully I've been putting 15% of every paycheck into a retirement fund for the last 20 years. I don't get to depend on a guarantee and then again none of my money is a guarantee if the economy tanks. I'm also not sure SS will be there when I qualify even though I've been putting in since I got a job at Hy Vee at 14.

 

[JMNSH0]

Lol, Stockholm syndrome much? Working 80 hours a week in order to get to a comfortable position, when so many others in power simply coast, is an indictment of our economy.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

That paragraph right there should tell you why they're so upset. Doing all of those things you listed above (working hard, saving, etc) doesn't get them to the same position you are. It's the same game but not the same rules anymore. So it's great folks like you and I were lucky enough to have a great house, a nest egg, etc but these kids will struggle to get there unless things change.

My parents bought their first house in 1980 for $37,000. Something my grandparents thought was expensive. I bought mine in 2008 for $100,000+ and sold it in 2022 for just under $200,000 to some 20 something kid. It's doubled it two decades and is around 6x greater than when my parents bought their first house. Not a sustainable model.

So of course you want the establishment. I do to for what I've been able do for my efforts. Young people want the same opportunity we got and they don't see it with the establishment at present. We'll see how they vote in 26 and beyond.

But I don’t want the establishment. I want to eliminate the corporate influenced politics that ruin free markets. I want massive turnover in DC. I would prefer a >2 party system over what we have today.

But we can overhaul those things without embracing a failed economic model that will never fly anyway. Socialism sounds great on paper. It does not deliver anything other than more benefits for an elite ruling class.

This is the lesson of the 1900s.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

And @hawkeyetraveler something else. My old man worked in the public sector for 40+ years. Retired in 2020 with an IPERS pension. That means he'll receive 70% of his highest 3 salaries for the rest of his life. On top of that, my mom will continue to receive it until her passing (if she goes after him). That's wonderful and a great way to budget for retirement.

Thankfully I've been putting 15% of every paycheck into a retirement fund for the last 20 years. I don't get to depend on a guarantee and then again none of my money is a guarantee if the economy tanks. I'm also not sure SS will be there when I qualify even though I've been putting in since I got a job at Hy Vee at 14.

We both agree the current system needs a massive overhaul.

 

[noleclone2]

You jump to so many conclusions. Why do you do that? I’m 53. Social security won’t be solvent by the time I get to retirement age. Yes I own a house - I worked extremely hard for 30+ years to get where I am. A small kid from a family farm near Fort Dodge who received no family money or government aid to go to college (although college was affordable back then - separate topic that we need to address). My first job was walking beans at 12 years old and I never stopped. I had part time restaurant jobs all through college. I routinely worked 80+ hours/week post college to make the life I wanted. Now one can say that is not a good thing (it cost me my first marriage) and I’m not suggesting others do that.

But when you seem to indict my worldview because I’m well off…just remember I worked my a$$ off to get where I am. I wasn’t handed a damn thing. So it baffles me when I see people who seem to think we should all get the same stuff regardless of work ethic.

And of course the DSA is getting traction with the progressive dem base. That’s obvious. But popularity and traction with a political base does not always correlate to popularity in society at large. Nor does it correlate to a good path for our country. To see the clearest evidence of that perhaps you should go to Wikipedia and look up:

Trump, Donald

I’m telling you now the Dems may take the house in 26, but if y’all keep embracing the most radical of these DSA types you will get steamrolled in 2028.

Steamrolled.

I don’t think the Democrats as voters are embracing DSA it’s more the party keeps running corporate shills all born before 1970 as candidates instead of finding appealing candidates for their voters who are not owned by special interests and were born in the 70s-90s.

The DSAs win their primaries in large part to being a younger and less career politician type. Most of them are late 20s to early 50s and many early 30s to mid 40s (like this 37 year old candidate). And they are not millionaires.

So I don’t blame the dem voters desperate for younger and not politically corrupted candidates when they vote for these type of candidates. I blame the party for after 11 years of fighting MAGA with they same useful idiot candidates born in the 1940s through 1960s, who are low energy, career politicians, and don’t fight due to also making wealth from corporate donors and the likes of Israel. They need moderate young non corrupted politicians and to run out the old guard. They are all disqualified after what they have let happen with not really organizing a way to true way to fight back in 5 election cycles.

 

[PW Herman]

But I don’t want the establishment. I want to eliminate the corporate influenced politics that ruin free markets. I want massive turnover in DC. I would prefer a >2 party system over what we have today.

But we can overhaul those things without embracing a failed economic model that will never fly anyway. Socialism sounds great on paper. It does not deliver anything other than more benefits for an elite ruling class.

This is the lesson of the 1900s.

But you're pissed at Hong because she wants the same piece of pie you and I got but she doesn't feel like she has that same opportunity even though she's worked her *** off like us. Why is she left behind?

 

[Yellowsnow51]

But you're pissed at Hong because she wants the same piece of pie you and I got but she doesn't feel like she has that same opportunity even though she's worked her *** off like us. Why is she left behind?

If that was the only platform for her and these DSAers it wouldn’t be anything to make heads turn. But for some reason they’ve adopted these loony non-economic stances that overshadow any of the coherent economic stuff.

If they only said, “high taxes on rich, single payer, close the gap between wealthy and poor, shorter work weeks, better social security”, they’d have a much wider appeal. But when they tie it to “No Senate, no prisons, no borders, no police, no Israel, all in all whatever the trans movement of the day is, and also, old white people buying hamburgers gave me extreme anxiety”, along with all the colonialism nonsense, their economic message doesn’t matter anymore.

 

[Moogy]

We've provided ample examples over the years: end citizens united, move to single payer, raise taxes on the wealthy, end buy, borrow, die, cut military spending, raise the payroll tax.

And do you know why none of these can get implemented? Because we keep voting corporate centrists into office who kill these measures.

Stop voting for corporate centrists. Sure they're not going to destroy the nation like Trump is. But they also have zero interest in achieve any of the goals I just laid out

How are you going to end Citizens United? Are you going to kill off Justices you don't like, so you can install ones you do like? Are you going to expand the size of the Court and install your own puppets to do your bidding, thereby creating a never-ending chain of judicial manipulation that will erode the remaining trust we have in that branch of the government? Legislatively, while there are some workarounds that can somewhat mitigate the impact of Citizens United, without overturning it, they aren't going to be THAT effective, and an Amendment would be necessary ... good luck with that.

Move to single payer ... will people of means still have the option to not have to rely on government meted out healthcare? Or do we all get in line, hoping that our Big Brother will see fit to treat us? How, exactly, is that being funded? How are we compensating for the severe hit to GDP, and the loss of one of our primary labor and compensation drivers? How, exactly, will this be funded? Again, we were told "repeal and replace" by the MAGAts, and were assured it would be easy ... they got power and couldn't figure out how to put the keys in the ignition. That was after we had a bastardized version of Romneycare installed [Romneycare being a somewhat effective bipartisan effort here in civilization, where liberalism works well enough, and together with conservatives (see our Republican governors over the years) that we're pretty much the gold standard of American success ... but we'd likely be "corporate centrists" to you], and it ended up being mostly a bureaucratic nightmare, without much net benefit. So, you'll have to excuse me if "hey, let's just do some single payer and fix stuff!" doesn't cut it.

Raise taxes on the wealthy ... which taxes? How much? For which reasons? What net result (on tax receipts and gdp growth?)

End buy, borrow, die ... OK, that's approximately $150B over 10 years that you've recaptured, assuming rich folks are too stupid to find other workarounds ... now what? That's approximately $437 (total, not per annum) redistributed (assuming no transaction costs - i.e. the government self-enriching) to each citizen over that 10 years ... are we close to proper wealth redistribution?

You never answered (of course) where the line was, when wealth disparity would no longer be an issue ... I wonder why ...

"Cut military spending" ... how much? Where?

"Raise the payroll tax"? ... how much? For which particular reasons? Net result?

So, do all that and how much will the wealthy disparity have decreased? How much will net wealth, as a country, be affected?

Give me SOMETHING of substance. ANYTHING.

I can't believe that you're using the same exact playbook of the MAGAts, and thinking you're standing in a pool of righteousness. They tried the exact same thing, characterizing the "establishment" as bad, and part of "the swamp" that needed to be drained. Disparagingly categorizing anyone that didn't embrace extremism as a "RINO" and casting them off.

Assuming you have the ability to gain any sort of meaningful power, you're going to spit on anyone in your path, and shun them if they question anything you're doing ... we've seen evidence of this behavior in situations like trans rights ... where, if someone doesn't believe trans people should [insert issue here ... from participate in whichever gender sport they want, or use certain bathrooms, or be able to demand you use whatever pronoun they tell you to use, etc.], then they're TERFs (or similar disparaging characterization) and are evil, even if they're otherwise liberal in their beliefs. You've picked your targeted bad guys, already - cis folks, Jews, older folks, corporatists.

You're locked and loaded to become MAGAtLeft.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

How are you going to end Citizens United? Are you going to kill off Justices you don't like, so you can install ones you do like? Are you going to expand the size of the Court and install your own puppets to do your bidding, thereby creating a never-ending chain of judicial manipulation that will erode the remaining trust we have in that branch of the government? Legislatively, while there are some workarounds that can somewhat mitigate the impact of Citizens United, without overturning it, they aren't going to be THAT effective, and an Amendment would be necessary ... good luck with that.

Move to single payer ... will people of means still have the option to not have to rely on government meted out healthcare? Or do we all get in line, hoping that our Big Brother will see fit to treat us? How, exactly, is that being funded? How are we compensating for the severe hit to GDP, and the loss of one of our primary labor and compensation drivers? How, exactly, will this be funded? Again, we were told "repeal and replace" by the MAGAts, and were assured it would be easy ... they got power and couldn't figure out how to put the keys in the ignition. That was after we had a bastardized version of Romneycare installed [Romneycare being a somewhat effective bipartisan effort here in civilization, where liberalism works well enough, and together with conservatives (see our Republican governors over the years) that we're pretty much the gold standard of American success ... but we'd likely be "corporate centrists" to you], and it ended up being mostly a bureaucratic nightmare, without much net benefit. So, you'll have to excuse me if "hey, let's just do some single payer and fix stuff!" doesn't cut it.

Raise taxes on the wealthy ... which taxes? How much? For which reasons? What net result (on tax receipts and gdp growth?)

End buy, borrow, die ... OK, that's approximately $150B over 10 years that you've recaptured, assuming rich folks are too stupid to find other workarounds ... now what? That's approximately $437 (total, not per annum) redistributed (assuming no transaction costs - i.e. the government self-enriching) to each citizen over that 10 years ... are we close to proper wealth redistribution?

You never answered (of course) where the line was, when wealth disparity would no longer be an issue ... I wonder why ...

"Cut military spending" ... how much? Where?

"Raise the payroll tax"? ... how much? For which particular reasons? Net result?

So, do all that and how much will the wealthy disparity have decreased? How much will net wealth, as a country, be affected?

Give me SOMETHING of substance. ANYTHING.

I can't believe that you're using the same exact playbook of the MAGAts, and thinking you're standing in a pool of righteousness. They tried the exact same thing, characterizing the "establishment" as bad, and part of "the swamp" that needed to be drained. Disparagingly categorizing anyone that didn't embrace extremism as a "RINO" and casting them off.

Assuming you have the ability to gain any sort of meaningful power, you're going to spit on anyone in your path, and shun them if they question anything you're doing ... we've seen evidence of this behavior in situations like trans rights ... where, if someone doesn't believe trans people should [insert issue here ... from participate in whichever gender sport they want, or use certain bathrooms, or be able to demand you use whatever pronoun they tell you to use, etc.], then they're TERFs (or similar disparaging characterization) and are evil, even if they're otherwise liberal in their beliefs. You've picked your targeted bad guys, already - cis folks, Jews, older folks, corporatists.

You're locked and loaded to become MAGAtLeft.

I've given you platform, platform that has been successful in many other countries, including our own, especially in the area of healthcare and taxing the rich, yet you still claim I'm not giving examples. None of what I've said is hypothetical. It's all been done and it's been done many many decades ago.

At this point there is little point of interacting with you anymore on this subject. You're being dishonest in your arguments, avoiding answers given simply because you don't like them, and end every post accusing me of being MAGA.

It's a waste of my time to continue discussing this with you.

 

[CRazzle]

This should've been stated earlier, but for the folks arguing against her, remember these are the same people who'd take ferret pizz for a COVID vaccine if Trump told them it was fine.

Carry on.

 

[CRazzle]

It’s because there is a complete lack of leadership and transfer of power to the next generation of politicians in the Democratic Party.

For 10 years plus, Democrats have been run by boomers just as beholden to corporate interests and the riches they bring as Republicans and have basically been useful idiots. They have tried to be centrist and meeting the middle and it has got our country into arguably its greatest crisis for where we are going to end up as a nation since 1861.

So I get why a big chuck of people are fed up and moving away from corporate and often Israel backed boomers and looking at social democracy. If you do some digging you can find predictions that one outcome of 12 years of MAGA could be an America shifting the pendulum all the other way and becoming a Democratic Socialism type country like much of Europe by the 2030s

From what I see is they still need to work on their candidates and platforms. They have some people and even official platforms that are asinine. They need to model after Europe which still embraces capitalism. The DSA is too close to socialism.

 

[aCEOuProbablyKnow]

This should've been stated earlier, but for the folks arguing against her, remember these are the same people who'd take ferret pizz for a COVID vaccine if Trump told them it was fine.

Carry on.

Ergo, vote for the bipolar, commie racist (who's married to a honky).

 

[Moogy]

I've given you platform, platform that has been successful in many other countries, including our own, especially in the area of healthcare and taxing the rich, yet you still claim I'm not giving examples. None of what I've said is hypothetical. It's all been done and it's been done many many decades ago.

At this point there is little point of interacting with you anymore on this subject. You're being dishonest in your arguments, avoiding answers given simply because you don't like them, and end every post accusing me of being MAGA.

It's a waste of my time to continue discussing this with you.

So, you couldn’t provide any answers. You’re beyond dishonest. You might actually be worse than Trump and Co. … if not from a personal perspective (he’s an entirely loathsome individual, obviously), but from a governance perspective. Sneaky and slimy. Congratulations.

 

[Huey Grey 2]

So, you couldn’t provide any answers. You’re beyond dishonest. You might actually be worse than Trump and Co. … if not from a personal perspective (he’s an entirely loathsome individual, obviously), but from a governance perspective. Sneaky and slimy. Congratulations.

Ignore list it is then.

 

[Moogy]

View attachment 1380999

Thuper … except that’s a lie. Holy crap it’s crazy just how MAGAtlike you folks are … just lies and misrepresentations. First, most of those candidates were running against OTHER centrists, not extremists. So, different types of opponents. So any Dem would be a centrist, win or lose. Second, Obama was a centrist from the get go. He was going to be a unifier, like Clinton. Third, Biden, the most recent successful Dem candidate, was a centrist. It’s the very reason he was successful. He was conveniently left out. Fourth, if election success is the measuring stick, progressive extremists have been losers for several lifetimes, so why would we think they’ll win now?

 

[Moogy]

Ignore list it is then.

Yeah, that tracks. You guys are going to do well recruiting much-needed centrists to back your candidates.

Absolute dumbasses.

All because you couldn’t explain any of the effects of your suggested changes on the American populace (I mean, who would want to know something as unimportant as that, amirite?)

I ask for information and suggest you’re going to act just like MAGA and shun those who question anything you do … you refuse to give any information and shun me for asking. You’re an absolute lunatic.

 

[hawkeyetraveler]

But you're pissed at Hong because she wants the same piece of pie you and I got but she doesn't feel like she has that same opportunity even though she's worked her *** off like us. Why is she left behind?

I’m not pissed at Hong. I get her passion and I appreciate the problems she wants to solve. I’m frustrated with the ignorance of those embracing the radical DSA platform as the solution. It’s the absolute wrong solution to the problem. It won’t work and it will only make things worse.

It’s the same thing I feel about MAGAs embrace of authoritarianism. Many younger MAGA types feel they cannot obtain the American dream (and they cannot) so they looked towards a snake oil leader who affirms their worldview and offers policies that have no chance of helping them.

 

[CRazzle]

 

[CRazzle]

Thuper … except that’s a lie. Holy crap it’s crazy just how MAGAtlike you folks are … just lies and misrepresentations. First, most of those candidates were running against OTHER centrists, not extremists. So, different types of opponents. So any Dem would be a centrist, win or lose. Second, Obama was a centrist from the get go. He was going to be a unifier, like Clinton. Third, Biden, the most recent successful Dem candidate, was a centrist. It’s the very reason he was successful. He was conveniently left out. Fourth, if election success is the measuring stick, progressive extremists have been losers for several lifetimes, so why would we think they’ll win now?

Who made Carville here a Clemson fan? Stick with LSU

 

[Moogy]

Who made Carville here a Clemson fan? Stick with LSU

Wut?

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

Francesca Hong on the issues:

Super PAC money: No

AI / AIPAC / Crypto money: No

Taxing billionaires: Yes, we must

AI data centers: Moratorium, 1 year at least

Abolish ICE: Absolutely

Israel is committing a genocide: Yes

Revisit foreign aid to Israel: Yes

Supreme Court reform: Needs to be reformed, expand the court

Universal healthcare: Yes

 

[PW Herman]

If that was the only platform for her and these DSAers it wouldn’t be anything to make heads turn. But for some reason they’ve adopted these loony non-economic stances that overshadow any of the coherent economic stuff.

If they only said, “high taxes on rich, single payer, close the gap between wealthy and poor, shorter work weeks, better social security”, they’d have a much wider appeal. But when they tie it to “No Senate, no prisons, no borders, no police, no Israel, all in all whatever the trans movement of the day is, and also, old white people buying hamburgers gave me extreme anxiety”, along with all the colonialism nonsense, their economic message doesn’t matter anymore.

Agree it's a reach on the Senate but again the bolded part is just hyperbole.

Government Institutions: Proposes abolishing the U.S. Senate and Electoral College, expanding the House of Representatives into a unicameral legislature, and replacing or subordinating the presidency and Supreme Court to Congress.

This is a big reach I agree.

Carceral and Border Systems: Calls for the abolition of Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE), replacing traditional national borders with freer migration policies, and working toward the abolition of carceral and prison systems as a long-term horizon.

ICE sucks, they should be abolished or severely consolidated down. I don't agree with open borders but fast tracking folks to citizenship has always been a value for this country. Get them working legally. Not sticking them in already crowded prisons

Foreign Policy: Demands an end to U.S. military and economic aid to Israel, support for Palestinian self-determination, and cuts to military and defense spending

After this Iran BS we should cut funding to Israel. They follow our commands or they get nothing. Bibi has already shown he's not going to comply. No more funds. Cutting defense budget should be #1 priority. It's beyond bloated

Social and Civil Rights: Integrates explicit commitments to transgender liberation, ***** rights, unrestricted access to gender-affirming care, and opposition to restrictions on bodily autonomy and gender expression

I know this is the big boogeyman that the GOP always jumps on. They've always done much better job of controlling this narrative than the Left has. I'm hoping that the DSA has a much more eloquent way of communicating that LGTBQ deserve rights just like everyone does. The whole "Dems favor guys in girls sports" was played perfectly as a fear mongering technique by the GOP. Dems need to do a better job

 

[TC_Nole_OX]

 

[PedMaller]

Tc_Tool - What’s really radical is libtard politicians thinking this is even remotely normal. Who actually votes for these morons??!