Hit me with those stats. Let's get this tiff on.
vhsalum's stats corner
- Thread starter Wrestleknownothing
- Start date
Tiff continued...
PSU 2025-2026 non-Big Ten schedule (NCAA finish)
Oklahoma (30)
Black Knight Invitational
2nd place team: Columbia (17)
Drexel (41)
Lehigh (16)
Wyoming (12)
North Dakota State (39)
Stanford (6)
Princeton (20)
That's ONE good match that's not mandatory. It's ok to call it what it is. An absolutely weak schedule that works.
And I just heard that Lehigh might not be on the schedule this year.
PSU 2025-2026 non-Big Ten schedule (NCAA finish)
Oklahoma (30)
Black Knight Invitational
2nd place team: Columbia (17)
Drexel (41)
Lehigh (16)
Wyoming (12)
North Dakota State (39)
Stanford (6)
Princeton (20)
That's ONE good match that's not mandatory. It's ok to call it what it is. An absolutely weak schedule that works.
And I just heard that Lehigh might not be on the schedule this year.
A couple objections:
1. What about the rest of the schedule? They wrestled the whole schedule, not just these teams/tournaments. This represents an exercise in cherry picking.
2. Where does the full schedule compare to other schedules. If it is in the top 25% of schedule strength you cannot say it is weak, only weaker than the top 24% (or wherever it ranks minus one).
3. Team rankings are irrelevant. What matters is the rankings of the wrestlers that take the mat on that day. This works both ways. If a good team chooses to duck then that hurts the true strength of schedule. Conversely, a team with five hammers and five cupcakes may rank low, but there is still the matter of the five hammers.
4. RPI represents the actual wrestlers wrestled. As I mentioned (and I have to be careful here because this may be the offending statement that resulted in deletion - ha, jk) prior to the conference tournament PSU had the highest average team RPI in the NCAA.
P.S. Yes, I understand the irony of quoting the guy who lost the case.
1. That's not the argument. We're talking about the "chosen" schedule.
2. I'm not that big of a nerd. There's no way I'm looking at the schedule of 77 D1 schools.
3. Team rankings are absolutely relevant. That's why I used the NCAA tournament. It's the most indicative stat of the what really matters - the individual wrestlers. There's nothing like a "top ten Rutgers" team - that is a tough dual team, but they have no AAs at the end of the season.
4. While this may be true, you're being disingenuous. We can look at the names of the program and see the exact purpose and intent behind them. None of those teams will remotely challenge PSU. Not in terms of the dual possibly being lost or have more than 2 matches in any kind of doubt.
Also. Stats are just damn lies. LOL
Some schools choose to compete in tough conferences. And some don't.
Could they wrestle a tougher schedule for sure. But I have said this many times no one wants to wrestle them so filling out the schedule isn't easy. It's very difficult and they usually have to pay non conference teams to wrestle them at Penn St. And those are all facts
1. Maybe you are switching to talking about the chosen schedule, but I am talking about the schedule.
2. Nor am I. I was hoping to shame you into it. I would venture to guess that the PSU schedule is in the top 10% though. So now you only need to find 7 tougher to prove me wrong.
3. Nope. The individual wrestlers who wrestled are what matter. For reasons already stated.
4. None of any teams remotely challenged PSU. That has nothing to do with strength of schedule though. For example, PSU wrestled the wrestlestat 3, 4, and 5 ranked dual teams and beat them by a combined 95-20. That is 8 wins to 2 against the top teams. That weaker teams also did not have a chance is not a statement of strength of schedule it is a statement of separation between #1 and everyone else.
Technically stats are below damn lies (lies, damn lies, and statistics), or as my father used to say, "figures never lie, but liars always figure."
I don't understand this line of thinking at all. 7 of the top 14 dual teams in the country last year wrestled in the B1G - PSU has no control on how many of these teams they wrestled.
Aside from the B1G schedule, they chose to wrestle 3 out of their remaining 6 duals against teams in the top 16. The other 3 were:
- Drexel - in-state school that profiles as one they should wrestle each year (BTW, I attended this event and it was sold out and one of the highlight events in Philadelphia for wrestling last year)
- Princeton - another important New Jersey school to wrestle for recruiting purposes, they usually will dual Rutgers, Princeton, or Rider to make sure they are keeping their footprint in NJ.
- North Dakota State - usually they are tough, maybe not so much last year.
The bottom line is the only thing I can think that you are b*tching about is the fact that we didn't wrestle OSU and the National Duals. There are reasons behind that for sure and I wouldn't expect that to change. Reasons that have nothing to do with SOS. BTW, how's those National Duals looking this year?
Chad said it's staying in Oklahoma which is basically a home dual tournament for Oklahoma st which won't help the event in the future either. Moving it around would probably be best for the event. But he wants to grow wrestling in the state of Oklahoma and it's his $ so I can see him not wanting to move it .
D-I-N-G... That is the whole point he is making. No more or less.
Whoa whoa. Not at all.
There are literally tougher schools from tougher conferences that could be scheduled. No need to name them, and to act like there isn't, is disingenous.
I'm not hating on PSU not going to National Duals. Don't really care. I also don't care that Cael schedules cupcakes. But it's ok to call that for what it is. Which again. Cael has one job. To win the nationals. And he's doing that. And this is clearly a piece of that. No need to be offended.
Telling everyone at the event the date for next year then moving the date didn't help at all. Now it's during finals for many universities. Oklahoma st has finals the week before the event not afterWhy isn't Iowa wrestling in the National Duals this year?
Is growing the sport not important anymore?
Corby to the Hawkeye rescue once again!
I didn't look it up, but I think it is fair to deduce that quite a few of the schools below are navigating the same challenges.
Penn State is not the only team that has cut back. Participation at Cliff Keen, the Midlands, and the Scuffle is way down compared to just a few years ago.
When it comes to scheduling OOC duals, there aren't many powerhouses to pick from. Stanford, Wyoming, and Lehigh were 3 of the 9 top non-BIG teams in the country ... Stanford was 2nd behind OkSt. That doesn't seem so bad.
When it comes to scheduling OOC duals, there aren't many powerhouses to pick from. Stanford, Wyoming, and Lehigh were 3 of the 9 top non-BIG teams in the country ... Stanford was 2nd behind OkSt. That doesn't seem so bad.
Did I say that's why Iowa didn't go? I was talking in general. Many teams declined because of finals . Everything isn't about Iowa I guess you can't even talk wrestling here
Did I say that's why Iowa didn't go? I was talking in general. Many teams declined because of finals . Everything isn't about Iowa I guess you can't even talk wrestling here
Um, you were replying to the post about Iowa not participating this year. No?
I guess the many universities line you skipped
. Just another 
now I know not to reply to you anymore
I just went through the duals they scheduled last year. Which dual should have been replaced, and with who? When you say, tougher schools from tougher conferences, who are you referring to?
I wish we could have a Blue-White wrestling match, with our PSU 1 vs 2 at each weight. I really think they could sell out the BJC or Rec for that match.
PSU faced Stanford and North Dakota State at the Journeyman Duals. Teams we didn't face there: Ohio State, Lehigh, Illinois, Iowa State (lost to Ohio State), Cornell (lost to Illinois), Little Rock (went 0-2, Little was injured and did not participate).
Maybe we should blame Cael for the organizers not letting PSU beat up Ohio State twice in one year.
We can provide you a list of “tougher teams” if you can define “tougher”. Would a tougher team win 3 or more matches in the dual? With that criteria only Okie State and maybe Nebraska would be “tougher”
Stanford finished 6th at NCAAs but lost to Penn State 42-0. Were they a “cupcake”?
I don't understand.
Most of these teams duck half their roster against Penn State. Why would Penn State want to schedule more of them?
Most of these teams duck half their roster against Penn State. Why would Penn State want to schedule more of them?
I call that the Black Knight Invitational, Away version.
I got to tell you, id have you're back in a bar fight any day! We'd most likely lose but damn would it be a good time.
As I sit here on my tailgate reading this, no offense intended, you sound as desperate as iowa. It comes off as rude but it's really not.
Weird take, but I’ll bite. How does it sound desperate?
Your hanging on to a feeling way to hard when it's been proven wrong by facts.
The Jordan Williams Instagram post.
=desperate
Sweet. I was looking to start something. Now I have a finisher.
Only an idiot would mess with a fat woodchuck
My theory exactly. Even better if he has cauliflower ears.Only an idiot would mess with a fat woodchuck
We're doing this again?
Every single one of our guys season continues the Monday after NCAAs. They're all hoping to be wrestling in the Fall, ideally seniors (and yes it is a lofty goal)
It's pretty obvious at this point a lighter fall ahead of the B1G dual schedule is just part of the plan.
Before you say DT's guys wants to be wrestling freestyle also. 2 things
1. DT has a brand to build right now. He wants to showcase himself as a coach and his team. Good for him. Cael when he first started did everything, including hosting his own tournament and scheduling Iowa when they weren't on the schedule.
2. They wrestle in the Big 12 in the spring, little bit less strenuous than the Big Ten
Every single one of our guys season continues the Monday after NCAAs. They're all hoping to be wrestling in the Fall, ideally seniors (and yes it is a lofty goal)
It's pretty obvious at this point a lighter fall ahead of the B1G dual schedule is just part of the plan.
Before you say DT's guys wants to be wrestling freestyle also. 2 things
1. DT has a brand to build right now. He wants to showcase himself as a coach and his team. Good for him. Cael when he first started did everything, including hosting his own tournament and scheduling Iowa when they weren't on the schedule.
2. They wrestle in the Big 12 in the spring, little bit less strenuous than the Big Ten
not only that, but Cael has decreased bout counts from 35/season to about 20. Definitely has a methodology in place.
Same can be said for most schools in the top 10 including the school you wrestled for.
To put an end to this. BECAUSE I’M RIGHT.
No CKLV, no scuffle, no NDI, no midlands, not a single blue blood scheduled outside of mandatory Big Ten duals.
Carl’s schedule is purposely weak and light prior to big tens and after (Princeton, American, et al)
As some PSU guys have said - it’s by design. Cael doesn’t care about “duals” per se. he wants to win the nationals and do it blowing everyone out. It’s clear he’s doing that, so yeah for goal setting.
But my point is truth, it’s a soft schedule that prioritizes peaking at the most important tournament of the year. So when you say “who else should he schedule” - you know dang well who he could.
So you’re saying Cael is pretty smart with his approach?
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