America's 250th in the time of MAGA summed up in one pic.

JWolf74

All-American
Dec 17, 2022
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God has a real sense of humor sometimes


Arrested Development Tobias GIF
 

hawkeyetraveler

Heisman
Aug 10, 2010
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Anyone else find it telling that Trump’s popularity amongst independents is at 21% the lowest ever polled for him? And it happened around the 250th celebration when national pride should give him a boost.

He is toast and the only support he has left are the most devout orange idol worshippers.
 

DFSNOLE_rivals

All-American
Sep 25, 2002
3,755
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Anyone else find it telling that Trump’s popularity amongst independents is at 21% the lowest ever polled for him? And it happened around the 250th celebration when national pride should give him a boost.

He is toast and the only support he has left are the most devout orange idol worshippers.
Many of whom post regularly on this board.
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
25,462
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Anyone else find it telling that Trump’s popularity amongst independents is at 21% the lowest ever polled for him? And it happened around the 250th celebration when national pride should give him a boost.

He is toast and the only support he has left are the most devout orange idol worshippers.
Do you really give those polls any credence? Like, really?
 

PW Herman

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Nov 13, 2007
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How has it been a debacle?

How quickly you forget all of the music acts that walked. Dorks like Bret Michaels didn't even want to be associated with your ilk. The sad part for Trump is nobody would.have thought any different of Bret as he's been irrelevant since Rock of Love and even he doesn't want your stink on him. LOL!
 

Fac

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Jun 5, 2001
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A pathetic bunch of lefty posters here. I feel so sad for you that you let Trump spoil your 4th.
 

Riveting

All-Conference
Aug 24, 2020
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How quickly you forget all of the music acts that walked. Dorks like Bret Michaels didn't even want to be associated with your ilk. The sad part for Trump is nobody would.have thought any different of Bret as he's been irrelevant since Rock of Love and even he doesn't want your stink on him. LOL!
That's it? A debacle because of the entertainers who did and did not perform?

The military bands and singers I saw were excellent. Why would you belittle those service members?
 

TarponSpringsNole

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Aug 4, 2022
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How quickly you forget all of the music acts that walked. Dorks like Bret Michaels didn't even want to be associated with your ilk. The sad part for Trump is nobody would.have thought any different of Bret as he's been irrelevant since Rock of Love and even he doesn't want your stink on him. LOL!
You should hear the military choir’s rendition of September.
Yes. It’s really bad. lol.
 
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hawkeyetraveler

Heisman
Aug 10, 2010
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Do you really give those polls any credence? Like, really?
Directionally I absolutely give it credence. Most people fail to understand statistics and issues around polling methodology. The economist poll had something around a +/- 6% margin of error for the subset made up of independents at a 95% confidence level. What that means is the pollsters are 95% confident that the actual population of independents will fall somewhere in the range of a 15-27% approval rate.

Could Trump have higher support than that? Absolutely he could. Why? because sampling methodology can bias results against overall population. Maybe pro-Trump independents simply are less trusting of polls. Maybe pro-Trumpers are embarrassed to admit their support, etc. There are numerous factors. And if this was a one off poll I would not be so confident that Trump is in the toilet.

But it’s not a one-off poll. It’s actually weekly. So you can follow the trend which, over time, normalizes the biases in respondents. Here are the results (thank you Gemini) pulling a monthly sample since the inauguration. While the 21% may or may not be the actual average, my confidence that he has lost a ton of the independents that supported him on inauguration Day is VERY high.

Month / YearApprox. Independent Sample SizeIndependent ApprovalIndependent DisapprovalSubsample Margin of ErrorNotable Timeline Event
June 2026~45021%71%$\pm$5.5%Record low; peak inflation & Iran war strain
May 2026~45024%68%$\pm$5.5%Rising dissatisfaction with economic metrics
April 2026~44027%64%$\pm$5.6%Drop in strong supporters across demographic bands
March 2026~45029%62%$\pm$5.5%First major dips on foreign policy & inflation tracking
February 2026~46031%59%$\pm$5.5%Early shifts as initial post-election optimism cools
January 2026~45033%56%$\pm$5.5%Marked one year since returning to office
December 2025~44035%55%$\pm$5.6%Early legislative battles over targeted agency funding
November 2025~45036%54%$\pm$5.5%Shifting sentiment on executive vs. personal use of office
October 2025~46038%52%$\pm$5.5%Mid-fall legislative agenda struggles
September 2025~45039%50%$\pm$5.5%Initial post-summer tracking baseline adjustments
August 2025~44040%49%$\pm$5.6%Steady tracking through late summer recess
July 2025~45041%48%$\pm$5.5%First six-month check-in marks
June 2025~46041%47%$\pm$5.5%Early second-term policy initiatives rolling out
May 2025~45042%46%$\pm$5.5%Initial budget proposals submitted to Congress
April 2025~44042%45%$\pm$5.6%Post-100 days mark; numbers hold steady
March 2025~45042%46%$\pm$5.5%Early policy momentum and cabinet confirmations
February 2025~46043%45%$\pm$5.5%First post-Inaugural addresses and executive orders
January 2025~45044%44%$\pm$5.5%Inauguration Baseline: Net-neutral starting split
 

fatpiggy

Heisman
Aug 18, 2002
25,462
24,218
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Directionally I absolutely give it credence. Most people fail to understand statistics and issues around polling methodology. The economist poll had something around a +/- 6% margin of error for the subset made up of independents at a 95% confidence level. What that means is the pollsters are 95% confident that the actual population of independents will fall somewhere in the range of a 15-27% approval rate.

Could Trump have higher support than that? Absolutely he could. Why? because sampling methodology can bias results against overall population. Maybe pro-Trump independents simply are less trusting of polls. Maybe pro-Trumpers are embarrassed to admit their support, etc. There are numerous factors. And if this was a one off poll I would not be so confident that Trump is in the toilet.

But it’s not a one-off poll. It’s actually weekly. So you can follow the trend which, over time, normalizes the biases in respondents. Here are the results (thank you Gemini) pulling a monthly sample since the inauguration. While the 21% may or may not be the actual average, my confidence that he has lost a ton of the independents that supported him on inauguration Day is VERY high.

Month / YearApprox. Independent Sample SizeIndependent ApprovalIndependent DisapprovalSubsample Margin of ErrorNotable Timeline Event
June 2026~45021%71%$\pm$5.5%Record low; peak inflation & Iran war strain
May 2026~45024%68%$\pm$5.5%Rising dissatisfaction with economic metrics
April 2026~44027%64%$\pm$5.6%Drop in strong supporters across demographic bands
March 2026~45029%62%$\pm$5.5%First major dips on foreign policy & inflation tracking
February 2026~46031%59%$\pm$5.5%Early shifts as initial post-election optimism cools
January 2026~45033%56%$\pm$5.5%Marked one year since returning to office
December 2025~44035%55%$\pm$5.6%Early legislative battles over targeted agency funding
November 2025~45036%54%$\pm$5.5%Shifting sentiment on executive vs. personal use of office
October 2025~46038%52%$\pm$5.5%Mid-fall legislative agenda struggles
September 2025~45039%50%$\pm$5.5%Initial post-summer tracking baseline adjustments
August 2025~44040%49%$\pm$5.6%Steady tracking through late summer recess
July 2025~45041%48%$\pm$5.5%First six-month check-in marks
June 2025~46041%47%$\pm$5.5%Early second-term policy initiatives rolling out
May 2025~45042%46%$\pm$5.5%Initial budget proposals submitted to Congress
April 2025~44042%45%$\pm$5.6%Post-100 days mark; numbers hold steady
March 2025~45042%46%$\pm$5.5%Early policy momentum and cabinet confirmations
February 2025~46043%45%$\pm$5.5%First post-Inaugural addresses and executive orders
January 2025~45044%44%$\pm$5.5%Inauguration Baseline: Net-neutral starting split
I think you are making the mistake of assuming the data is accutate.


I understand statistics quite well. Statistics are only as good as the data you are working with. If the data was flawed the rest doesn’t matter.


For example, the infamous Iowa poll in the previous election. That fell well outside all confidence intervals because the data was manipulated.

Same with climate change. The data sucks, so the “science” can be easily manipulated.

Whatever, I get using them as a sentiment, but I don’t view them as accurate or very indicative. Very low signal and high noise, but I think you know that cuz you are a smart dude.
 

hawkeyetraveler

Heisman
Aug 10, 2010
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I think you are making the mistake of assuming the data is accutate.


I understand statistics quite well. Statistics are only as good as the data you are working with. If the data was flawed the rest doesn’t matter.


For example, the infamous Iowa poll in the previous election. That fell well outside all confidence intervals because the data was manipulated.

Same with climate change. The data sucks, so the “science” can be easily manipulated.

Whatever, I get using them as a sentiment, but I don’t view them as accurate or very indicative. Very low signal and high noise, but I think you know that cuz you are a smart dude.
I agree that stats are only as good as the data you are working with, but usually in polling the underlying data biases are similar from week to week polls. So while the absolute number maybe off, the trend over time is usually substantially more predictable of reality. In other words, if there is a bias In the polling which causes it to misrepresent reality the bias is usually consistent across polls.

So when you see a trend like Trump’s support dropping in half you can be really VERY confident that his support has actually dropped substantially. Maybe not half, but substantially.

One caveat to this whole thing: I am well aware I have a strong anti-Trump bias. So I do have a tendency to want to believe messages that align with my bias. But in this case I am looking at many polls, taken over time and across different pollsters and polling methodologies. The data is all pointing the same way and I have not seen any indication it points the other way. In the Selzer example it was an outlier poll that wasn’t backed up by other pollsters or time series data (that admittedly regrounded me in the lesson of polling bias).

I suspect you are the same in the opposite direction. How confident are you that your biases aren’t over riding your logic?
 
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OrlandNole

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Nov 28, 2003
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Directionally I absolutely give it credence. Most people fail to understand statistics and issues around polling methodology. The economist poll had something around a +/- 6% margin of error for the subset made up of independents at a 95% confidence level. What that means is the pollsters are 95% confident that the actual population of independents will fall somewhere in the range of a 15-27% approval rate.

Could Trump have higher support than that? Absolutely he could. Why? because sampling methodology can bias results against overall population. Maybe pro-Trump independents simply are less trusting of polls. Maybe pro-Trumpers are embarrassed to admit their support, etc. There are numerous factors. And if this was a one off poll I would not be so confident that Trump is in the toilet.

But it’s not a one-off poll. It’s actually weekly. So you can follow the trend which, over time, normalizes the biases in respondents. Here are the results (thank you Gemini) pulling a monthly sample since the inauguration. While the 21% may or may not be the actual average, my confidence that he has lost a ton of the independents that supported him on inauguration Day is VERY high.

Month / YearApprox. Independent Sample SizeIndependent ApprovalIndependent DisapprovalSubsample Margin of ErrorNotable Timeline Event
June 2026~45021%71%$\pm$5.5%Record low; peak inflation & Iran war strain
May 2026~45024%68%$\pm$5.5%Rising dissatisfaction with economic metrics
April 2026~44027%64%$\pm$5.6%Drop in strong supporters across demographic bands
March 2026~45029%62%$\pm$5.5%First major dips on foreign policy & inflation tracking
February 2026~46031%59%$\pm$5.5%Early shifts as initial post-election optimism cools
January 2026~45033%56%$\pm$5.5%Marked one year since returning to office
December 2025~44035%55%$\pm$5.6%Early legislative battles over targeted agency funding
November 2025~45036%54%$\pm$5.5%Shifting sentiment on executive vs. personal use of office
October 2025~46038%52%$\pm$5.5%Mid-fall legislative agenda struggles
September 2025~45039%50%$\pm$5.5%Initial post-summer tracking baseline adjustments
August 2025~44040%49%$\pm$5.6%Steady tracking through late summer recess
July 2025~45041%48%$\pm$5.5%First six-month check-in marks
June 2025~46041%47%$\pm$5.5%Early second-term policy initiatives rolling out
May 2025~45042%46%$\pm$5.5%Initial budget proposals submitted to Congress
April 2025~44042%45%$\pm$5.6%Post-100 days mark; numbers hold steady
March 2025~45042%46%$\pm$5.5%Early policy momentum and cabinet confirmations
February 2025~46043%45%$\pm$5.5%First post-Inaugural addresses and executive orders
January 2025~45044%44%$\pm$5.5%Inauguration Baseline: Net-neutral starting split
Trump's unpopularity has gone into hyperdrive. A 15 point swing since the first of year compared to an 11 point swing for all of 2025.
 
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Fasteddie24

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Dec 8, 2023
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The Black Women on the Subway with the dudes from the Southern Poverty Law Center was way safer than a white woman on a subway around black killers!
 

Huey Grey 2

Heisman
Jul 1, 2025
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Early voting starts in 2 1/2 months. Gonna take something pretty Hurclean for Trump to change the tides. I'm not even sure he could get his voters suppression act put into place by then.