Florida’s new Open Division for the playoffs

[AquinasHillmen JC14]

Interesting new division in Florida’s state playoffs. Top 8 teams regardless of classification will be in the Open Division. I would love to see this in Illinois!

FHSAA Announces Creation of New Open Division Beginning with 26-27 Season

GAINESVILLE, Fla. – The Florida High School Athletic Association announced today the creation of the FHSAA Open Division, a championship platform designed to showcase the top high school teams in the state of Florida.

fhsaa.com

 

[Cross Bones]

They lost me with the Maxpreps ratings being the deciding mechanism.

I dont know if in FL its easier to determine the top 8, but it would be a mess here. Are you leaving Loyola out last year? Does Fenwick make it in? Maine South? Rochester?

Although their end of the regular season rankings are probably better than their end of the playoffs rankings so there's that.

 

[Edgytim]

I just can't see that ever happening here to be honest. Winning as many games as possible including state titles have more value to the coaches than anything else.

 

[SiuCubFan8]

They lost me with the Maxpreps ratings being the deciding mechanism.

I dont know if in FL its easier to determine the top 8, but it would be a mess here. Are you leaving Loyola out last year? Does Fenwick make it in? Maine South? Rochester?

Although their end of the regular season rankings are probably better than their end of the playoffs rankings so there's that.

Full disclosure, this is what AI said the Maxpreps IL rankings heading into week 9.

• Chicago Mt. Carmel
• Brother Rice
• Montini Catholic
• Fenwick
• Nazareth Academy
• Lincoln‑Way East
• Maine South
• Fremd
• Oswego
• St. Rita

 

[4Afan]

Full disclosure, this is what AI said the Maxpreps IL rankings heading into week 9.

• Chicago Mt. Carmel
• Brother Rice
• Montini Catholic
• Fenwick
• Nazareth Academy
• Lincoln‑Way East
• Maine South
• Fremd
• Oswego
• St. Rita

I think this has to be 100% incorrect. The top 6 are the same as their season ending rankings and can't see ESL not being top 10 going into week 9 but ending up #7 in the year end rankings. That being said, all hail our AI overlords (don't want to upset them as they watch me)

 

[SiuCubFan8]

I think this has to be 100% incorrect. The top 6 are the same as their season ending rankings and can't see ESL not being top 10 going into week 9 but ending up #7 in the year end rankings. That being said, all hail our AI overlords (don't want to upset them as they watch me)

Upon further review, agree. After arguing with AI I got this, looks better......I think.

• Mount Carmel (8‑0)
• East St. Louis (6‑2)
• Lincoln‑Way East (7‑1)
• Brother Rice (7‑1)
• Maine South (7‑1)
• Nazareth Academy (7‑1)
• Montini Catholic (8‑0)
• Fenwick (6‑2)
• Glenbard West (7‑1)
• Barrington (7‑1)

 

[Cross Bones]

Full disclosure, this is what AI said the Maxpreps IL rankings heading into week 9.

• Chicago Mt. Carmel
• Brother Rice
• Montini Catholic
• Fenwick
• Nazareth Academy
• Lincoln‑Way East
• Maine South
• Fremd
• Oswego
• St. Rita

Didnt even think to see if AI had the archives. I just asked AI about the ratings after week 9 and it left out MC, when I pointed that out they said there was confusion between down state MC and Chicago MC. Then I asked if they really included LWE after their two losses, and it told me that LWE was 9-0. When I pointed out it was wrong they apologized

I dont know if we will be able to get those post week 9 ratings without sending an email. Which I've found that Maxpreps can be somewhat responsive.

 

[4Afan]

Illinois high school football: IHSA Week 9 schedule, broadcasts, scores, rankings and statistical leaders

MaxPreps News - Key Illinois high school football games, live broadcasts, computer rankings, statewide stat leaders, schedules and scores - live and final.

www.maxpreps.com

 

[JCHillmen10]

Full disclosure, this is what AI said the Maxpreps IL rankings heading into week 9.

• Chicago Mt. Carmel
• Brother Rice
• Montini Catholic
• Fenwick
• Nazareth Academy
• Lincoln‑Way East
• Maine South
• Fremd
• Oswego
• St. Rita

What's not to like (although admittedly it would be great to have ESL included as well)? A bracket that looks like....
1 MC
8 Fremd

4 Fenwick
5 Naz

2 BR
7 MS

3 Montini
6 LWE

But I agree with Edgy. It is unlikely. Just about 100 percent of coaches would rather win a lower class than be forced up into a larger or open class and not advance further.

It wouldn't solve the "competitive balance" issue the IHSA is talking about now, but it would eliminate the clearly too good for a small class outliers. 4A Montini last year, 4A JCA in 2021, 3A IC in certain years may fall into the top 8 and then be removed from the smaller classes. It still leaves 2025 St Francis or PC in 5A, but does solve some of the issue.

 

[4Afan]

Going into the playoffs..

Illinois high school football: IHSA first round playoff schedule, brackets, broadcasts, scores, rankings and statistical leaders

MaxPreps News - Illinois high school football first round playoff games, brackets, broadcasts, computer rankings, statewide stat leaders, schedules and scores - live and final.

www.maxpreps.com

 

[4Afan]

What's not to like (although admittedly it would be great to have ESL included as well)? A bracket that looks like....
1 MC
8 Fremd

4 Fenwick
5 Naz

2 BR
7 MS

3 Montini
6 LWE

But I agree with Edgy. It is unlikely. Just about 100 percent of coaches would rather win a lower class than be forced up into a larger or open class and not advance further.

It wouldn't solve the "competitive balance" issue the IHSA is talking about now, but it would eliminate the clearly too good for a small class outliers. 4A Montini last year, 4A JCA in 2021, 3A IC in certain years may fall into the top 8 and then be removed from the smaller classes. It still leaves 2025 St Francis or PC in 5A, but does solve some of the issue.

You should read the original article. For Florida they're not setting it up as a straight bracket, it will be 2 groups doing round Robin with each team guaranteed a home game and the top 2 teams after the round robin will play for the championship.

 

[Cross Bones]

Going into the playoffs..

Illinois high school football: IHSA first round playoff schedule, brackets, broadcasts, scores, rankings and statistical leaders

MaxPreps News - Illinois high school football first round playoff games, brackets, broadcasts, computer rankings, statewide stat leaders, schedules and scores - live and final.

www.maxpreps.com

See i don't know about this top 8 after seeing how it played out. MC and Rice make sense. After that I can make arguments of varying degrees against all of them.

 

[JCHillmen10]

You should read the original article. For Florida they're not setting it up as a straight bracket, it will be 2 groups doing round Robin with each team guaranteed a home game and the top 2 teams after the round robin will play for the championship.

Saw that and like most people didn’t like it. So I applied it in a way that made more sense and that more people would prefer. Pool play is dumb.

sounds like the rankings I used were a bit off though.

I agree with edgy that not many coaches who would be forced up to an open class would love this. But all the others would like it and benefit from a softer path.

j do think there is a decent chance the competitive balance committee ends up recommending an open class for Illinois. It

 

[Cross Bones]

But I agree with Edgy. It is unlikely. Just about 100 percent of coaches would rather win a lower class than be forced up into a larger or open class and not advance further.

I appreciate this. Simple, honest, no spin.

 

[JCHillmen10]

I appreciate this. Simple, honest, no spin.

Is there anybody in the state who disagrees with that assessment? I’m sure there are a few who pride themselves on thumping their chests and always playing the best. But most coaches in a 20-30 year career would rather look back on that 2024 3A state title as opposed to that one year they had a really good team and showed well for themselves in the open class by losing by 3 in the semis.

ESL is the well regarded “all comers” team in the state. And even they only petition up to 7A when allowed.

People want to win championships. It’s as simple as that. It’s why almost nobody petitions up. It’s why teams who haven’t been winning championships want a larger success factor/multiplier or now perhaps an open class.

it’s really not a public/private issue or even a haves/have nots issue. Teams and coaches and schools almost universally all want the softest route to a state title.

God bless Batavia for petitioning up to 7A last year. But that wasn’t chest thumping. That was looking for a class that didn’t have ESL and Naz in it. Loyola petitioning up to 8A in 2023 wasn’t ducking anyone, but it sure did give them the nice opportunity to avoid MC, their number 1 threat to a title that year. It’s the universal desire to give yourself the best chance.

 

[Cross Bones]

Is there anybody in the state who disagrees with that assessment? I’m sure there are a few who pride themselves on thumping their chests and always playing the best. But most coaches in a 20-30 year career would rather look back on that 2024 3A state title as opposed to that one year they had a really good team and showed well for themselves in the open class by losing by 3 in the semis.

ESL is the well regarded “all comers” team in the state. And even they only petition up to 7A when allowed.

People want to win championships. It’s as simple as that. It’s why almost nobody petitions up. It’s why teams who haven’t been winning championships want a larger success factor/multiplier or now perhaps an open class.

it’s really not a public/private issue or even a haves/have nots issue. Teams and coaches and schools almost universally all want the softest route to a state title.

glad bless Batavia for petitioning up to 7A last year. But that wasn’t chest thumping. That was looking for a class that didn’t have ESL and Naz in it. It’s the universal desire to give yourself the best chance.

Yes. There are plenty people who claim they do and want to play the best competition. I completely agree with your assessment.

The two requests that were interesting to me were Batavia and Richards. I agree with your assessment on Batavia, and the move made sense because they have shown they can compete with the 7A publics. Richards on the other hand showed a complete misunderstanding of the landscape and their place in it. Jumped out of a class with maybe 2-3 teams they couldnt compete with into a class with probably 20+ they couldnt compete with.

 

[MustangFB]

Is there anybody in the state who disagrees with that assessment? I’m sure there are a few who pride themselves on thumping their chests and always playing the best. But most coaches in a 20-30 year career would rather look back on that 2024 3A state title as opposed to that one year they had a really good team and showed well for themselves in the open class by losing by 3 in the semis.

ESL is the well regarded “all comers” team in the state. And even they only petition up to 7A when allowed.

People want to win championships. It’s as simple as that. It’s why almost nobody petitions up. It’s why teams who haven’t been winning championships want a larger success factor/multiplier or now perhaps an open class.

it’s really not a public/private issue or even a haves/have nots issue. Teams and coaches and schools almost universally all want the softest route to a state title.

God bless Batavia for petitioning up to 7A last year. But that wasn’t chest thumping. That was looking for a class that didn’t have ESL and Naz in it. Loyola petitioning up to 8A in 2023 wasn’t ducking anyone, but it sure did give them the nice opportunity to avoid MC, their number 1 threat to a title that year. It’s the universal desire to give yourself the best chance.

And Batavia will end up in 6A next year

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

They lost me with the Maxpreps ratings being the deciding mechanism.

I dont know if in FL its easier to determine the top 8, but it would be a mess here. Are you leaving Loyola out last year? Does Fenwick make it in? Maine South? Rochester?

Although their end of the regular season rankings are probably better than their end of the playoffs rankings so there's that.

Agree! Thats terrible decision to use MaxPreps! I can see Illinois doing something like this but with more teams... Maybe a two-system say Class1-4, 5-8 model... It's interesting!~

Look forward to some of y'alls brackets with say 12/16 team formats... Let the fun begin!~

 

[AlabamaTimberwolf]

Is there anybody in the state who disagrees with that assessment? I’m sure there are a few who pride themselves on thumping their chests and always playing the best. But most coaches in a 20-30 year career would rather look back on that 2024 3A state title as opposed to that one year they had a really good team and showed well for themselves in the open class by losing by 3 in the semis.

ESL is the well regarded “all comers” team in the state. And even they only petition up to 7A when allowed.

People want to win championships. It’s as simple as that. It’s why almost nobody petitions up. It’s why teams who haven’t been winning championships want a larger success factor/multiplier or now perhaps an open class.

it’s really not a public/private issue or even a haves/have nots issue. Teams and coaches and schools almost universally all want the softest route to a state title.

God bless Batavia for petitioning up to 7A last year. But that wasn’t chest thumping. That was looking for a class that didn’t have ESL and Naz in it. Loyola petitioning up to 8A in 2023 wasn’t ducking anyone, but it sure did give them the nice opportunity to avoid MC, their number 1 threat to a title that year. It’s the universal desire to give yourself the best chance.

Doesn't Batavia alway move up to 7A when they are not in 7A???

 

[SiuCubFan8]

Doesn't Batavia alway move up to 7A when they are not in 7A???

They have been in 6A 5 times over the past 20 years. Last time was '13-'14, so it's be a decade.

 

[4Afan]

Agree! Thats terrible decision to use MaxPreps! I can see Illinois doing something like this but with more teams... Maybe a two-system say Class1-4, 5-8 model... It's interesting!~

Look forward to some of y'alls brackets with say 12/16 team formats... Let the fun begin!~

Arizona also uses Maxpreps for ranking their open division, so should Illinois ever go this route(almost 0% chance they ever will) they would likely also use Maxpreps.

 

[4Afan]

It's interesting, in previous posts people have said IL needs to have an "open" class to see who is the best of the best or to level the competitive playing field, but when another state comes out with one then people think it wouldn't work in IL or don't like the rankings that were used. For those of you against Maxpreps, here's the Rivals rankings going into week 10 last year and I'm guessing you won't like these any better. Should IL ever adopt something like this you can all but guarantee they would use one of these two rankings to determine top 8 and those arguments would likely lead to this board being shut down.

Illinois High School Football Rankings: Top 25 Teams - Oct. 27

Friday nights have taken center stage and the top 25 teams in our Illinois high school football rankings feature a lot of familiar names.

www.on3.com

 

[SiuCubFan8]

It's interesting, in previous posts people have said IL needs to have an "open" class to see who is the best of the best or to level the competitive playing field, but when another state comes out with one then people think it wouldn't work in IL or don't like the rankings that were used. For those of you against Maxpreps, here's the Rivals rankings going into week 10 last year and I'm guessing you won't like these any better. Should IL ever adopt something like this you can all but guarantee they would use one of these two rankings to determine top 8 and those arguments would likely lead to this board being shut down.

Illinois High School Football Rankings: Top 25 Teams - Oct. 27

Friday nights have taken center stage and the top 25 teams in our Illinois high school football rankings feature a lot of familiar names.

www.on3.com

Agree, IF IL did this they would use some type of ranking system that already exists.

 

[mc140]

Anyone want to wager Batavia will be just fine in 6a in 2027 if ESL goes up to 7a this year?

 

[4Afan]

Anyone want to wager Batavia will be just fine in 6a in 2027 if ESL goes up to 7a this year?

Depends on where they're at in their 2 year cycle. If last year was the first year in 7A in thst cycle then they don't have a choice this year.

 

[cornerrat#1]

Depends on where they're at in their 2 year cycle. If last year was the first year in 7A in thst cycle then they don't have a choice this year.

All.... This will be the second season in the two year petition up rule. So 7A for 2026. Ratsy

 

[mc140]

Depends on where they're at in their 2 year cycle. If last year was the first year in 7A in thst cycle then they don't have a choice this year.

Hence why I said 2027.

 

[4Afan]

Hence why I said 2027.

I'd wager they'll still go 7A. They haven't played in 6A since 2013. Are they ducking ESL? There may be some truth to that, but they have petitioned up to 7A with the likes of BR, MC, GW, and others throughout the years so I don't see why they'd stop now.

 

[JCHillmen10]

I'd wager they'll still go 7A. They haven't played in 6A since 2013. Are they ducking ESL? There may be some truth to that, but they have petitioned up to 7A with the likes of BR, MC, GW, and others throughout the years so I don't see why they'd stop now.

To my knowledge, this 2026-27 window is the only time they have ever petitioned up. They have been 7A naturally most of the last decade. So this would have been their first time in 6A in some time.

Habitual thorn in the side to Batavia Nazareth being bumped up to 6a and ESL being there certainly makes it look like they were avoiding them, but they had the cover of “well we have been 7A most of the last decade” to do so. It didn’t work out last year in 7A, but it was probably the best choice for them to have a softer route to a title. This coming fall, if they are stuck in 7A and ESL joins the 7A drag too, I think Batavia would have been one of two favorites to win 6A. After Batavia and Naz, really only Fenwick and maybe Cary or a few others would be considered legit 6A contenders.

 

[cornerrat#1]

All.... Fwiw when they talked with Coach Piron from what I remember in the article he mentioned something about in the recent past the team being on the bubble between classes for postseason play. Not happy with the unknown and comfortable playing class 7A was the reason the Bulldogs petitioned to play up.

One can read many meanings into what he said and why they made the move. Ratsy

 

[Kevin JCHS 1981]

It wouldn't solve the "competitive balance" issue the IHSA is talking about now, but it would eliminate the clearly too good for a small class outliers. 4A Montini last year, 4A JCA in 2021, 3A IC in certain years may fall into the top 8 and then be removed from the smaller classes. It still leaves 2025 St Francis or PC in 5A, but does solve some of the issue.

Yes 4A JCA in 2021 was a Bad Look BUT that was the year after Covid and nobody understood where anybody was going to end up, come the playoffs. JCA would have won 5A with that team, probably even higher classes.