Five in Five - What Might That Look Like?
- Thread starter Wrestleknownothing
- Start date
SMH
I missed one.
There is at least one more wrestler who has a shot at a seventh year (and maybe? an eighth).
In my defense, it was easy to overlook him as he has flown under the radar since his 2021 debut season because he is notoriously reticent to attract attention. Albert James Ferrari Jr. will be in his seventh year since graduating high school next season. He has one more year of eligibility left. There is just the minor....really minor.....issue of what team he would wrestle for. I imagine there will be a lot of demand. Who wouldn't want to align themselves with someone attempting such a unique feat?
As for the possibility of an eighth year...
For him to have two more years he would need to get a hardship waiver for 2022 (which by the letter of the rule he does not qualify for having participated in more than 6 dates of competition - the wrestling definition of 30%).
To get a hardship waiver he would need a school to submit a request on his behalf by July 31.
What school is going to submit a request for him?
As far as I know he is not currently affiliated with any school. And I cannot imagine he would have much of a chance to get that done in the next month without the legal issues hanging over his head. With the legal issues, the likelihood is within rounding distance of 0%.
This guy had a shot at five titles, but he has gone out of his way to ensure that did not happen. I get that he did not win twice, but who is to say that if he could have figured out a way to not get shown the door at Oklahoma State (or Iowa) that he could not have continued to win titles? Being forced away from the sport for three years through his own actions has a funny way of not making him a better wrestler.
He is one of the most self-destructive athletes I have ever seen. Yes, there is a lot of competition for that title, but he is absolutely in the conversation.
I missed one.
There is at least one more wrestler who has a shot at a seventh year (and maybe? an eighth).
In my defense, it was easy to overlook him as he has flown under the radar since his 2021 debut season because he is notoriously reticent to attract attention. Albert James Ferrari Jr. will be in his seventh year since graduating high school next season. He has one more year of eligibility left. There is just the minor....really minor.....issue of what team he would wrestle for. I imagine there will be a lot of demand. Who wouldn't want to align themselves with someone attempting such a unique feat?
As for the possibility of an eighth year...
For him to have two more years he would need to get a hardship waiver for 2022 (which by the letter of the rule he does not qualify for having participated in more than 6 dates of competition - the wrestling definition of 30%).
To get a hardship waiver he would need a school to submit a request on his behalf by July 31.
What school is going to submit a request for him?
As far as I know he is not currently affiliated with any school. And I cannot imagine he would have much of a chance to get that done in the next month without the legal issues hanging over his head. With the legal issues, the likelihood is within rounding distance of 0%.
This guy had a shot at five titles, but he has gone out of his way to ensure that did not happen. I get that he did not win twice, but who is to say that if he could have figured out a way to not get shown the door at Oklahoma State (or Iowa) that he could not have continued to win titles? Being forced away from the sport for three years through his own actions has a funny way of not making him a better wrestler.
He is one of the most self-destructive athletes I have ever seen. Yes, there is a lot of competition for that title, but he is absolutely in the conversation.
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Zero chance of this lineup.
5 for 5 hurts PSU more than any other team in terms of several guys would have gotten at least a one year start if not more while others shirt.
With the word James has already enrolled, it's starting to look like Sealy, Kasak, Desmond, Davis, Henckel, Cunningham, and Perry never earn full time starter stripes going forward, and my bet would be 2 or 3 portal out.
Unless Ono is injured Desmond is out, and Despite Kasak being a finalist talent assuming his head is healed, I think we see James at 157.
Oh, did I say 5 for 5 can suck it!
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A one year start (if that) was never a long term solution for many of the above. And many of the above were underdogs to ever start under any system.
I heard rumblings of 5 for 5 last summer, I’m sure Cael did too which was probably why both Blaze and Duke wrestled.
I’m a fan of 5 for 5. I’d rather see Blaze, Duke, and James rather than alternatives.
Another year for Luke Lilledahl as well.
Penn State's studs in the lineup for 5 years instead of 4 can only be a good thing from a team perspective.
Penn State's studs in the lineup for 5 years instead of 4 can only be a good thing from a team perspective.
5 for 5 in my mind: What would I do if I had the keys to the kingdom? I would create the NIT for wrestling! All those who did NOT compete in the conference tournament would be eligible to compete in an NIT conf tournament to qualify for the NIT Championships.
The combo of alternating redshirts, Oly shirts and potential injury would give several of those kids more than just one year.
There was a good chance that both Marcus and PJ shirted this year, and James almost definitely. All qualified for Olys down the road as well. The impact to our squad is significant.
No doubt we now field the strongest lineup each year, but I expect depth will change, and 2 years from now after some portalling an injury at the wrong weight could be a 20 point loss rather than half that or less.
Cael will still do better than others at keeping some bench hammers, but I seriously doubt all will stay.
I am so, so, so happy for 5-for-5. After the start of the season, it will likely put an end to Googles endless laments about what Cael is going to do about the lineup.
Or maybe not. Not sure when he will figure out that it will be like every other year since 2016 - put the best lineup out there you have in the postseason. Until 2nd semester, nothing is set in stone.
The endless inane ramblings that must sound good to him on paper, but NEVER actually incorporate what goes on with the lineup decisions have to stop sometime, don't you think? 5-for-5 may be the answer!!!
Or maybe not. Not sure when he will figure out that it will be like every other year since 2016 - put the best lineup out there you have in the postseason. Until 2nd semester, nothing is set in stone.
The endless inane ramblings that must sound good to him on paper, but NEVER actually incorporate what goes on with the lineup decisions have to stop sometime, don't you think? 5-for-5 may be the answer!!!
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There was no doubt who was getting the 157 nod and the decision was objective.
So if some kids, like duke, decide to stay in old system can he not get a regular red shirt and an olympic red shirt?
Yes but he'd only be able to wrestle in 3 more NCAAS. If he selects 5 for 5, he can wrestle in 4 more.
Willie threw out the possibility of Kasak dropping to 49 if he can’t get 57 spot… love SVN but Kasak at 49 is scary if he can make the cut
Going back to the original post...What will our line up be in 2026-2027?
Noting that there is exactly ZERO benefit to any kind of sitting out...is there reason for PJ and Mitchell sitting out this summer (which they do not typically do)? I think they are making a transition up weight classes, although my 1 doubt would be the Olympic/International spot Messenbrink will be targeting (74 kg) is at his current weight. Would he go up to 174 which is 79 kg (173.8 lbs)??? Is that a cut he wants to make in 2 years because I do not see him at 86 kg, his frame simply is not that big.
With that considered, I still have Mitchell making the move to 174 here:
WT STARTER 2ND TEAM NOTED OTHERS COMING IN 2027
125 Lilledahl Wentzel Sidun
133 Ono Desmond Burnett
141 Blaze Davis Herring
149 Van Ness Pierce Perry Mangano
157 Kasak OR James Shepherd
165 Duke Sealey
174 Messenbrink Henckel
184 Welsh Cunningham
197 Barr Ellis
285 Connor Mirasola Cole Mirasola
So, I "think" we go
125 Lilledahl
133 Ono
141 Blaze
149 Van Ness
157 James
165 Duke
174 Messenbrink
184 Welsh
197 Barr
285 Connor M
Additional note:
The game of "musical chairs" that the new rule causes REALLY SUCKS. We will literally have (7) AA level guys on the bench: Desmond, Davis, Kasak, Sealey, Henckel, Cunningham, Cole M and Pierce would be a fringe AA type guy.
With full scholarships, NIL and revenue share, I wouldn't say it SUCKS... Each of these guys are one injury from starting and need to stay sharp. I would expect all of them to get matches this year --- both in duals and open tournaments. And they each get another NATIONAL CHAMPIONSHIP ring
Just get better and see what happens...I don't think 5 for 5 caused the logjam... blame expanded scholarships and revenue if you must...
Help me understand the transition period. Are the "old rules" really the "old rules"? Will anyone choosing the 4 for 5 option by July 31 still have the ability to get 4 for 6 or even 4 for 7 with future injury redshirts like the "old rules" used to allow?
For example: If Connor Mirasola was injured in December of last year and could not compete again in 2025-26 season... can Penn State request a medical redshirt (he already took a regular redshirt) by July 31? If so he becomes a 4 for 6 "old rules" wrestler with 4 more years of eligibility.
For example: If Connor Mirasola was injured in December of last year and could not compete again in 2025-26 season... can Penn State request a medical redshirt (he already took a regular redshirt) by July 31? If so he becomes a 4 for 6 "old rules" wrestler with 4 more years of eligibility.
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Time to make the PSU Altoona or Penn College wrestling teams being D1 a reality.
Looking at our current roster and next year commits... (assuming anyone that has already taken a redshirt will elect 4 for 5)
Year 4for5 5for5
2027 24 7
2028 20 12
2029 15 15? -- assuming roster is around 30
2030 7 23?
2031 0 30?
With no more redshirts given, the transition to 5 for 5 is going to take 4 years
Year 4for5 5for5
2027 24 7
2028 20 12
2029 15 15? -- assuming roster is around 30
2030 7 23?
2031 0 30?
With no more redshirts given, the transition to 5 for 5 is going to take 4 years
Rank 2023 -----------2024 -----------------2025 ----------------2026 -----------2027
1 Nick Feldman RS Meyer Shapiro 3rd Luke Lilledahl 3rd PJ Duke 3rd Jax Forrest (wrestled 2nd semester 2026)
2 Casey Swiderski RD12 Ben Kueter RS Cody Merrill RS Marcus Blaze 4th Bo Bassett
3 Jesse Mendez 6th Max McEnelly RS Aeoden Sinclair RS Ladarion Lockett RD16 Jayden James
4 Nic Bouzakis RS Brayden Thompson NQ Benjamin Davino RS Anthony Knox RS Dreshaun Ross
5 Dylan Fishback RS Gabe Arnold RS Connor Mirasola RS Landon Robideau 1st Jordyn Raney
6 Troy Spratley RS Rocco Welsh 2nd Zack Ryder RS Sergio Vega 1st Jayden Raney
7 Caleb Henson 5th Josh Barr RS Angelo Ferrari RS Leo Deluca RS Coby Merrill
8 Brian Soldano RS Christian Carroll RS Joseph Sealey RS Daniel Zepeda RS Rocklin Zinkin
9 Levi Haines 2nd Cael Hughes RS Koy Hopke RS Jude Correa RS Michael White
10 Matt Singleton RS Tyler Kasak 3rd Brock Mantanona RS Harvey Ludington RS Moses Mendoza
Top ten freshman redshirts by year...
2023 6
2024 6
2025 9
2026 4
2027 0 although 3-4 of the top 10 may not start (Raneys, Zinkin, White)
The days of incoming freshman redshirting are over...
1 Nick Feldman RS Meyer Shapiro 3rd Luke Lilledahl 3rd PJ Duke 3rd Jax Forrest (wrestled 2nd semester 2026)
2 Casey Swiderski RD12 Ben Kueter RS Cody Merrill RS Marcus Blaze 4th Bo Bassett
3 Jesse Mendez 6th Max McEnelly RS Aeoden Sinclair RS Ladarion Lockett RD16 Jayden James
4 Nic Bouzakis RS Brayden Thompson NQ Benjamin Davino RS Anthony Knox RS Dreshaun Ross
5 Dylan Fishback RS Gabe Arnold RS Connor Mirasola RS Landon Robideau 1st Jordyn Raney
6 Troy Spratley RS Rocco Welsh 2nd Zack Ryder RS Sergio Vega 1st Jayden Raney
7 Caleb Henson 5th Josh Barr RS Angelo Ferrari RS Leo Deluca RS Coby Merrill
8 Brian Soldano RS Christian Carroll RS Joseph Sealey RS Daniel Zepeda RS Rocklin Zinkin
9 Levi Haines 2nd Cael Hughes RS Koy Hopke RS Jude Correa RS Michael White
10 Matt Singleton RS Tyler Kasak 3rd Brock Mantanona RS Harvey Ludington RS Moses Mendoza
Top ten freshman redshirts by year...
2023 6
2024 6
2025 9
2026 4
2027 0 although 3-4 of the top 10 may not start (Raneys, Zinkin, White)
The days of incoming freshman redshirting are over...
I will be completely amazed if more than a hand full of kids ever wrestle 5 years in college. Too much of a grind. And most that do wrestle the 5 post seasons will most likely not be at full capacity for all 5 years. I'm not a betting man but if i was i would bet Cael continues to recruit kids for the 4 year post season and have a year of training unless they are truly special. But either way there are waaaaaaay to many injuries that occur in a 4 year period let alone 5
I agree. There were only 10 true freshmen wrestlers in this past NCAAs (8 AAs). There were 41 redshirt freshman (8 AAs) --- I would expect maybe half of those would have made the NCAAs as true freshman. Going forward maybe 30 true freshman make the tournament each year. Between injuries and expanded roster competition and IVY rules maybe 10-15 make their 5th tournament.
At Penn State, Lilledahl, Blaze, Duke and maybe James look headed to wrestle all 5 years barring injuries. (Penn State is definitely not immune to injuries even though Nolf and Starocci wrestled thru serious ones). None of the class of 2027 recruits (4 top 10) look to be starters as true freshman.
He could use his regular RS for the 27-28 year and train for the Olympics. PJ will go the 5 for 5 route
Wasnt sure if they decide old way if all the redshirts still available or just one. Of course kids like pj blaze ect.. would have to be good with that. That would definitely free up weights to fit most in.
Would just be one. No more Olympic RS . You would just get 1 regular RS if you decided to do 4/5