Did something happen to Croom?
- Thread starter jxndawg
- Start date
Croom inherited Jackie Sherrill teams that were 8-27 overall in the previous 3 seasons before Croom rode in w/ his crooked azz hat and red shirts instead of maron, 3-21 in conference so lets don't act like the locker room didn't wreak of turd sandwich smelling talent when he got here too.
Yes I am. We lost to MAINE. Also that 4-8 Tulane team skull drug us at home in 2006 a year after they lost their entire campus in Katrina.
There was Zach Arnette, but he was sort of tossed into a roaring fire with no experience to speak of.
Atleast we can say that Arnette was a hire made to a certain degree in a state of panic and under the duress of trying to keep a recruiting class together and prepare for a bowl game, all while having an empty chair for an Athletic Director.
There's no metric you can use that puts Croom in a better light than Lenny (through 2 seasons). The post you responded to proved that. Maine was worse than Toledo. UAB arguably was, Toledo is higher status than them.
That Toledo team 17’n dominated us and they might’ve been on the edge of the Top 100. If took an inordinate amount of good fortune and boneheadedness for Maine to beat us in 2004 (I was there unfortunately). We were clearly the better team and just found inventive ways to lose that game.
Using those games as comparative measuring sticks is like picking which pile of dogshit is more appetizing.
Yes. Did you watch our offense during Croom's tenure?
I'm not defending Lebby by any stretch, but we still averaged 30 points per game last season.
By comparison, in Croom's best season, we averaged 21 points per game.
Our offenses under Croom weren't just below average—they were objectively terrible.
I'm not defending Lebby by any stretch, but we still averaged 30 points per game last season.
By comparison, in Croom's best season, we averaged 21 points per game.
Our offenses under Croom weren't just below average—they were objectively terrible.
Correct. Lenny’s defenses are worse than croom’s offenses. By a long shot.
I'd rather have a bad defense paired with an offense that's capable of putting points on the board than a bad offense backed by a merely decent defense.
I suppose you had to watch those teams to fully appreciate just how limited they were offensively.
The league is just totally different, now, compared to then.
I member. I was there. This thread sucks
So I guess the argument is would you rather have a ****** offense or a ****** defense.
Personally, if I've got to watch us get our *** beat, I'd at least like to see us score a lot, as opposed to hoping for a miracle to score more than one TD.
I don’t understand how anyone could say Lebby is as bad as Croom. I haven’t looked at the actual stats of each offense but I honestly can’t remember a 300 yd game with a croom offense.
Defense may be a whole different story, I think he had some serviceable defenses.
I seem to remember we started out some games and especially many second half’s with timeouts before the very first snap. If we did happen to not use a TO, we had a false start penalty or delay of game penalty.
i think the comparisons have to go beyond W-L’s.
My opinion it’s croom by a landslide and it’s not even close.
Defense may be a whole different story, I think he had some serviceable defenses.
I seem to remember we started out some games and especially many second half’s with timeouts before the very first snap. If we did happen to not use a TO, we had a false start penalty or delay of game penalty.
i think the comparisons have to go beyond W-L’s.
My opinion it’s croom by a landslide and it’s not even close.
It’s much closer than you think, and, as others here have said, that’s the problem.
I posted this stat in a previous thread comparing Lebby to Croom, and it bears repeating. In 27% of Croom’s games as coach, we scored single digits or were shut out. Just think about that. More than a quarter of his games as head coach, we scored fewer than 10 points. We were absolutely hopeless offensively. Nobody is as bad or will ever be as bad a head coach as Croom.
A coach who goes 10-30 with a bad offense has still clearly done a better job than a coach who goes 1-15 with a decent offense.
All the stats and numbers in this thread are valid. But I’m remembering the eyeball test, and what I saw last year with our team in the competitive games is far and away better than what Croom was putting on that field. We did have a few Croomtastic bright spots here and there, but that team was bad and the most poorly coached.
Well it was the way he presented himself for Alabama games. He loved Alabama with all his heart. Came out during pregame and it was the first time we ever saw him in a suit. He was in awe of everything Alabama . Even after they wouldn’t even consider giving him an interview for the job. And went with price/shula. Croom shoulda said kiss my butt and never looked back, but his love for them was still in his heart.
kinda the same principle with the Salmon and flebby you have now with their love for Oklahoma.
Woody McCorvey was the worst OC by far we've ever had. Averaged somewhere around 10 pts per game during his tenure, and Croom would not get rid of him.
I know what you're staying, but, if only those equated to W's and L's..................Total yards and points scored only matter if you held the opponent to less, otherwise its a just a sister kissing moral victory.
They could not complete a pass against air. He put good defenses on the field but his offenses were the worst in history. That 3-2 game? Defense got a safety and a turnover on ABOUT Auburn’s 40 near end of game. I got excited, guy next to me said it didn’t matter.
I said all we need is five yards and we can kick a FG. He was right. Four plays later we were punting from our own 40.
The McCorvey/Croom Gulf Coast offense will go down as one of the worst ever in the game of college football
(Side Note) I just checked and McCorvey is still in the game, he's "Chief of Staff of Football Operations" at Clemson
You can't seriously put Croom and Lebby in the same category. I watched every home game in person the Croom era. We literally struggled to complete a forward pass. The Croom coast offense was terrible in a near historically bad SEC. The schedule was much easier back then, no NIL disadvantage, and Ole Miss was just as terrible, so in state recruiting was level. You young guys have no idea how bad it was unless you watched it all. Let's don't forget that he had Jerious Norwood and Anthony Dixon as his two starting running backs during his tenure. Many would argue they are the top 2 of all time here. Stats below: ETA Lebby averaged 30ppg while Croom averaged 17ppg. You guys really need to think this through. Croom would get blown out today. He couldn't recruit a QB or receiver then and he damn sure couldn't today. Omar Conner was a gift to Croom and was wasted under him. Hell, imagine if Lebby moved Kamario to receiver because he was the most athletic on the team. That's what Croom did to Omar. Lebby averaged more rushing yards per game than Croom did in all but 1 of his 5 years. Imagine watching that **** when you can't complete a pass.
CROOM:
2005 (3-8 Overall, 1-7 SEC)
2006 (3-9 Overall, 1-7 SEC)
2007 (8-5 Overall, 4-4 SEC)
2008 (4-8 Overall, 2-6 SEC)
LEBBY:
Last season the Bulldogs averaged 399.2 yards and 30.4 points per game while allowing 30.2 points per game on defense. [1, 2]
Since 2019, his offensive system has produced five individual 3,000-yard passing seasons and five individual 1,000-yard receiving seasons.
CROOM:
- 2004: 3-8 overall (2-6 SEC) | 15.7 PPG For, 25.5 PPG Against
- 2005: 3-8 overall (1-7 SEC) | 13.9 PPG For, 23.5 PPG Against
- 2006: 3-9 overall (1-7 SEC) | 18.4 PPG For, 25.8 PPG Against
- 2007: 8-5 overall (4-4 SEC) | 21.5 PPG For, 23.2 PPG Against
- 2008: 4-8 overall (2-6 SEC) | 15.2 PPG For, 24.7 PPG Against
- Rushing: 2,058 Yards | 3.5 Avg/Attempt
- Passing: 1,591 Yards | 144.6 Yards/Game
2005 (3-8 Overall, 1-7 SEC)
- Rushing: 1,514 Yards | 137.6 Yards/Game
- Passing: 1,523 Yards | 138.5 Yards/Game
2006 (3-9 Overall, 1-7 SEC)
- Rushing: 1,363 Yards | 113.6 Yards/Game
- Passing: 1,844 Yards | 153.7 Yards/Game
2007 (8-5 Overall, 4-4 SEC)
- Rushing: 2,347 Yards | 180.5 Yards/Game
- Passing: 2,233 Yards | 171.8 Yards/Game
2008 (4-8 Overall, 2-6 SEC)
- Rushing: 1,775 Yards | 147.9 Yards/Game
- Passing: 2,126 Yards | 177.2 Yards/Game
- Key Passer: Tyson Lee (153-260, 1,519 Yards, 7 TD, 9 INT)
LEBBY:
Last season the Bulldogs averaged 399.2 yards and 30.4 points per game while allowing 30.2 points per game on defense. [1, 2]
- Total Offense: 5.53 yards per play
- Passing Offense: 241.2 yards per game
- Rushing Offense: 158.0 yards per game
- Third Down Conversion: 41.4%
- Sacks: 21.0 total sacks on the season [1, 2]
Since 2019, his offensive system has produced five individual 3,000-yard passing seasons and five individual 1,000-yard receiving seasons.
Personally, I would rather have the worst offense in the country and win X games, than have the best offense in the country and win (X-1) games.
This is absolutely right.
If you weren't there then you just dont know. We were SO horrible. In Croom's 2007 signature win at Auburn, State won 19-14 and had 6 take aways. 6 turnovers leading to 19 points including 1 of those being a pick 6. The product was unwatchable.
You know what’s really sad? I think back on the Croom era as being one of our worst recruiting periods in the school’s history, but if you go back and look at it, it’s not difficult to argue that it was better than any of Lebby’s classes.
Granted, it’s difficult to compare these eras of recruiting due to NIL and the portal now being in place, but by the time the dust settles on Lebby’s tenure here, I think we’re going to be able to easily point to his HS classes as some of the worst we’ve signed in decades.
As awful as he was, he somehow managed to win 10 SEC games in 5 years. And not all of them were against the cellar dwellers. Lebby would have to win 3 SEC games this fall just to match Croom's 3 worst years.
Our defense held auburn to a field goal and scored two points AND WE LOST. Enough said.
The top and bottom of the SEC were a lot closer back than they have been over the last 10 years. SEC games were easier to win. Croom won on defense alone when he won.
At the rate Lebby is rolling, we will be placing a statue of Croom outside the stadium in a year or so.
That loss at LA TECH is a core memory in my brain. My friends and I went and hung out at a relative of his house. They had a big family and their family and friend group were all state fans and cool people. Like I said, they were family and the ones the weren’t were close enough to be considered family. We couldn’t have been more excited to start the season. I would guess I was 16-18 years old. Just old enough to enjoy some underage drinking with a group of folks.
It was going to be great. We were coming off the best season croom had. Easily going to be better that year and go to an even better bowl for sure.
Instead, I had an absolute miserable time and some of these people that had been friends their whole lives were literally trying to kill each other in the yard. Apparently everything that everyone had been keeping to themselves can boil over when your favorite team gets embarrassed in Rouston Louisiana.
A lot of the so called offensive stats from Lebby are garbage time points put up during blow out losses.
That’s 10-30 over 5 seasons and like I said earlier the SEC looks a lot different than when Croom coached. It’s a much deeper conference.
Maine is at least an entire state.
Toledo is a city that’s not even Top 3 in size in its state. It’s comparable to us losing to Grand Rapids, Michigan, or Cullman, Alabama.
It’s also worse for Lebby than just the losses themselves…..it’s how they are happening. Toledo beat us by 28 points, on our field. The game was literally over halfway through the 2nd quarter. SEC games - we either get obliterated (lost 12 of 16 SEC games by 10+), or we have a massive choke (UF, Texas, Tennessee). Both are on Lebby for either lack of preparation or squandering a sure win or at least a chance of one.
We don’t lose competently, or win at all. We look terrible in all phases, not just one area. Croom at least had a decent defense for most of his tenure.
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