First, the press is the one that made it into an issue.
Secondly, your last three words, "No one cared." is the problem. Trump is fixing a lot of things previous administrations didn't care about.
Well, well, well...
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Secondly, your last three words, "No one cared." is the problem. Trump is fixing a lot of things previous administrations didn't care about.
Is the press really the one that made the first issue of it?
I lay that at the feet of the people who saw Trump trying to fix something, and decided they needed to vandalize a national monument out of TDS.
We really could have just sat back and debated the merits of the repair work on its own.
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Like non-citizens voting in United States elections.
Who can rationalize non-citizens voting unless there is an obvious benefit in the outcome for those promoting it. It's insane to allow it.
Try going to a foreign country and voting in their elections.
How did the press make it an issue? The president of the united states insulted the previous two presidents over a reflecting pool, claimed he could get it fixed easily, and then had his administration go around the bid process to hire someone.
if any other president had done that, or a Democrat president had done that, you don't think Fox news and right wing news sources would have been screaming bloody murder 24/7? That's the same crowd that absolutely pummeled a Democrat president for wearing a tan suit at the White House.
I am still trying to figure out what this problem was he was trying to fix. Was this an issue to you and your family 4 months ago?
This appears to be a textbook case of creating a problem that wasn't a real problem, and then suddenly that person's supporters are all yelling "this was a big problem" - one they weren't talking about, weren't thinking about, and can't point to any evidence that they thought it was a problem.
Yes, we know the reflecting pool has had problems, has leaked, etc- but certainly not something that should have had a President insulting others about it, or creating more division by the way he talked about the issue.
I can't answer for anyone else, but I know at my company, the CEO doesn't get worked up or personally involved in whether the decorative water feature out in front of our main office is working properly or not.
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It would be nice to see the evidence of the pool being vandalized so we could decide for ourselves.
that way we don't have to take the word of a politician, or someone who works for a politician, or supporters of a politician.
and touching the water or lifting out globs of peeled paint, I don't think, counts as destroying the pool.
I am keeping an open mind that someone vandalized the pool and caused this damage. Instead of talking, I wish they'd provide some evidence that can be verified.
The problem with the pond was not created by Trump. Its been known for years, (although not front page news) but only became a flash point because of Trump's boasts to fix it and the left's rabid hatred of anything he does.
I did a quick search, there are tons of current articles, but someone posted the link to a CNN report from years ago.
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One would like to see a few pictures, or something of the like. I mean, the pictures of the vandalism on the grass was easy to see and post. But those are numbers that 40 to 50 feet tall.
Have you read the Parks Service report? I admit I have not.
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It is illegal for non-citizens to register to vote or vote. It's also quite rare. It's why we see so few prosecutions across the country, including (or maybe especially) in states that talk a lot about voter fraud.
For fun I looked up the numbers in Texas since they talk so much about it and claim to be aggressive with their prosecutions.
From 2016 - 2020, only 18 people were prosecuted for any type of voter fraud. In most of those 18 cases, the people who tried to commit voter fraud failed in their effort.) In a majority of the 18 cases, the elections were for local boards like water commission, not state or federal elections. (Since 2005, about 100 people have been charged with some type of voter fraud in Texas, but the great majority were not prosecuted.)
I would have thought we'd see several thousand arising out of the 2020 election alone- especially in Texas given how much they talk about it. But they simply aren't there. My long term suspicion is this topic is something easy to talk about to gin him anger and votes.
Interesting tidbit - In the recent run-off primary last week, 89.5% of registered voters in South Carolina chose not to vote.
When you expand that out to citizens in South Carolina, less than 6.5% of South Carolinians chose the next governor.
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I haven't read it. I read a report about it that didn't seem to shed any real light on anything and didn't have any actual evidence other than someone's comment.
I'd like to see evidence from a non-politician- and from someone who doesn't work for a politician.
Maybe we will soon see evidence presented to a court, where an attorney has to present only truthful information or face punishment from the court. The info mentioned by politicians, by the time it makes it to court, seems to change an awful lot.
I think we all realize trump didn't create the actual pool problem- the problems it has had.
My posts were about him making the issue a big deal, mainly by insulting Biden and Obama's effort (Oddly the pool issues got back much further than that) but Trump just mentioned those two as he has to blame them for everything. The insults weren't necessary. But that doesn't stop Trump.
Then he gets upset at the reaction- and his supporters get upset at the reaction.
It's like a man calling your wife a dog, and then you get mad at him for doing such a thing, and then people are mad at you for "reacting so badly" while sparing any criticism of the man attacking your wife.
Maybe you run in different circles than I do, but in January of this year, I heard no one talking about the damn pool. I heard no discussions on cable news-or talk radio about how awful the pool problem is and how it's a poor reflection on America.
But suddenly, when Trump mentioned it, the press reacted as they do- but they weren't the only ones. Suddenly, Fox news was talking about how awful Biden and Obama were in not fixing the biggest problem in the world, the reflecting pool.
Thats odd, I found a link that had Texas purging 6500 non citizens from Texas voting rolls.
Map shows states where migrants are being purged from voter rolls
Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced that more than 6,000 noncitizens have been purged from the state's voting rolls.
www.newsweek.com
This link had a few hundred thousand dead people included.
Its important to note that this is only in red states that are cooperating with the administration.
One reason I think you see fewer prosecutions is because we have judges now striking down the attempted verification of voter rolls. Imho, we dont find a lot of things because "we" dont want to.
To be fair, if we dont want there to be vandalism (other than the one in the grass that can be seen from a helicopter) then nothing Trump says will be believed. Nothing any agency says will be believed. Nothing the police say will be believed.
Nothing short of the crime being videod will really sway anyone's opinion. Such is fluidity of "facts" when politics are involved.
I think a politician or those working for a politician are always the least likely to be believed for good reason. I am not sure that's a bad thing. I easily distrust all politicians. I don't find it hard at all to consider all of them pathological liars and to treat what they say that way when they don't provide clear and convincing evidence.
let us see the charging documents from the prosecutors spelling out the specific evidence they have regarding the specific vandalism- something they haven't done. That would help a lot.
Thats odd, I found a link that had Texas purging 6500 non citizens from Texas voting rolls.
Map shows states where migrants are being purged from voter rolls
Texas Governor Greg Abbott announced that more than 6,000 noncitizens have been purged from the state's voting rolls.
This link had a few hundred thousand dead people included.
Its important to note that this is only in red states that are cooperating with the administration.
One reason I think you see fewer prosecutions is because we have judges now striking down the attempted verification of voter rolls. Imho, we dont find a lot of things because "we" dont want to.
It's not odd at all. I posted about prosecutions in Texas from people actually voting.
These people didn't vote. From the story, this is routine- and this is what states do before elections. The story didn't say all those people showed up to vote and were arrested or prosecuted. It says they never got so far as to actually be able to vote because states clean up their rolls all the time.
From the article you posted, " also removed were 6,000 voters convicted of a felony, more than 457,000 people who have died, 463,000 voters on the suspense list, 134,000 who responded to a confirmation notice indicating they have moved"
The story mentions reviewing the rolls is routine and anyone actually illegally voting is referred for prosecution.
Then we are back to my post above about how few are prosecuted (notice Texas didn't prosecute "6500 non citizens")- and most of those involved local elections for cities, towns and commissions. They prosecuted less than 25 people in 4 years.
Not all red states are cooperating. None should be cooperating because there is no law that requires states to cooperate with presidential administrations on voter lists.
Many republicans will be screaming like hell when the next Democrat administration is trying to force red states to cooperate on voting lists. (I'll be screaming too because elections are state issues, not something for the federal government to be involved in- which is the true conservative position).
And yet those prosecutors would be "working for " Trump, and could easily be dismissed if we want.
It doesnt scream election integrity to refuse to let anyone see your rolls.
I get the notion of the states reserving the right to run their own elections, but states I dont live in are affecting nationwide races that affect myself and every other citizen. I imagine there's a reasonable solution, but that would need both sides to want to address the issue, and not be invested in continuing it.
I dont think its a good thing that this purging is routine, and yet still finding thousands of illegals each time, and hundreds of thousands of dead people. Maybe the dead people are a recurring issue, but if the purge is occasional, then the numbers of illegals registering is actually much more.
And this is in states actually looking for it. As you correctly point out, many states arent complying, and conveniently stand to benefit from those votes. One could use the annoying argument that states with nothing to hide have no fear of verifying rolls.
Im reminded of the videos that came out with homeless being paid to register and vote in California, but those are homeless, not illegals.
Ensuring illegals dont vote is one thing, I would actually also like to see only citizens counted in the census, and used to determine representation/money dispersement.
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“Conspiracy theories.” Five million non-citizens with Social Security numbers. Thousands of them on voter rolls. Many of them voted. But sure, it’s all a big conspiracy theory. I guess all those people just accidentally registered to vote while applying for benefits they weren’t supposed to have in the first place. Oopsie!
We all know what’s really going on here. Democrats have spent decades fighting every single effort to verify the accuracy of voter rolls. Voter ID? Racist. Purging dead people? Voter suppression. Cross-referencing databases to find illegal voters? “Data breach!” It’s almost like they’re running the same play from the same playbook every time someone gets close to the cookie jar.
Okay, well you had me confused when you said:
I assumed you didnt think there was a problem, when there was a long term one.
But i get the second part, you think Trump made the big deal out of it. Bit now you appear to acknowledge that the press did, in fact blow up the issue.
That is what @Thunderstick said a few posts back. I agree with him and it looks like, protestations aside, you do too.
prosecutors can be held accountable by the court if they file something that isn't factual or can't be backed up with real evidence. If they make a claim in an indictment that has no basis in facts, they can be in trouble.
most attorneys don't want to put their future careers and legal reputations at risk for a politician- any politician, especially one that will only be in office for 4 years or at most 8.
Also, most attorneys handling cases for the government aren't political appointees. The people doing are typically career prosecutors or attorneys simply doing their job no matter who is in control and the people in front of the cameras making the allegations that might not stand up in court are political appointees.
But with all that said and as a reminder, my post said that we need to see the actual charging documents- and see if those make allegations that the people they have charged were charged for actually causing actual damage. This wouldn't be the firs time the Trump DOJ has had people arrested and then the court case falls apart almost immediately.
We've all read about the long-existing problems with the reflecting pool. I heard a story on Sirius XM last week that even when the pool was first completed, problems started immediately. But these were long-standing issues that didn't interfere with the public's enjoyment of the pool.
Some nuance is required here.
There have been problems with the pool forever. Those problems don't interfere with the public enjoying the pool and have never generated any consternation with the public. Cable news shows, news shows, the public has never been up in arms about the leaks with the pool that most didn't know about unless they read about them.
So yes- my question about what problem Trump was trying to fix stands given he insulted two previous presidents immediately and then promised he would fix it before creating a serious public perception problem related to the pool that didn't exist before he started talking about it like it was the biggest deal in the country.
The pool wasn't an issue even though it had leaked for decades and wasn't perfect. It was generating no public outcry. No one cared. Until he created the problem. Then there were articles being written by Trumpers talking about the awful reflecting pool and how it had always been awful and only someone with Trump's guts was willing to even talk about it.
if I come over to your house and comment on your nice looking driveway, and you proceed to tell me about the foundation problems with it over the years and how it's been a living hell and the previous two owners were damn fools about it, you will have missed the point of my comment and created an issue with me where there wasn't one.
I'm not going to take the time to argue about something that I disagree with you about so profoundly. It's a waste of time.
I don't care about Democrats or Republicans or liberals or conservatives. LOL. They are worthless scum.
we just disagree on the issue. No reason for me to keep talking about it.
I would hope that, given the frequency of these people voting illegally that at least the states you feel are taking it serious would start prosecuting them and providing evidence in court to back up their claims, instead of ignoring so many of them doing it over and over and over again which they'd have to be doing at this point given so few are prosecuted.
States not supplying info to the Trump administration about their voter rolls, given the feds have no role in election administration at all, aren't necessarily not looking for violations. Some of the states are even republican led states that have fought back because they see it as government over-reach- something conservatives use to be against
I am against the federal government being involved in things in which they have no legal role. To support it otherwise is to support a further expansion of federal power.
You realize that this entire post boils down to you not thinking it was an issue because you didn't notice coverage of it?
I showed a national news outlet reporting on it. Its been known for years, that doesnt require you noticing it.
He said he was going to fix it, and as you and Thunderstick correctly pointed out, the press did what the press does any time Trump speaks.
Or is your entire point that Trump started it by mentioning Obama?
Im agreeing that Id like to see these documents. Im also pointing out that report came out about the vandalism that neither of us has looked at, and has been dismissed out of hand.
I am of the opinion that no amount of evidence will satisfy some. If Trump can make the govt agency fake a report, he can make them fake some damage, etc.
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You have one disconnect. You're not going to have massive prosecutions in states that actively work against illegal voting.
The states that bother me are the ones give illegals DL'S, and auto register them at the DMV, then actively fight in court against anyone investigating them.
The states hiding it are the issue, not the states being open about their efforts.
I saw a pretty funny interview some news organization did with a TDSer by the reflecting pool. The person stated that it made them sick that millions of their tax dollars were spent on Trump's vanity project. The interviewer then asked about previous attempts to renovate and beautify the reflecting pool by other presidents. The interviewee conceded that the reflecting pool has always issues with algal blooms and that that part wasn't Trump's fault, but the wasteful spending on his pet vanity project made him sick. The interviewer asked with parts of the project, in particular, were Trump vanity. The interviewee said he didn't object in principle to any part of the project, even the blue paint, but simply objected b/c it was a Trump vanity project. The interviewer asked which comments made by Trump led the interviewee led to think it was a vanity project. This led to a typical TDS response like...."Oh, come on. Of course it was."
To the damage. This was announced to be vandalism by Frank Lands, NPS Deputy Director, who has been serving in that role since 2021 during the Biden administration. Just to shoot down any speculation that this was a statement by a Trump political appointee.
To the do-dos who say "it wasn't cut, I can tell it's peeling!" Let me break it down for you: First it's cut. The cut then leads to peeling. I've seen the pictures and it's obvious it was cut. We've all seen paint peel. It doesn't peel in a nice, clean, straight line.
To the damage. This was announced to be vandalism by Frank Lands, NPS Deputy Director, who has been serving in that role since 2021 during the Biden administration. Just to shoot down any speculation that this was a statement by a Trump political appointee.
To the do-dos who say "it wasn't cut, I can tell it's peeling!" Let me break it down for you: First it's cut. The cut then leads to peeling. I've seen the pictures and it's obvious it was cut. We've all seen paint peel. It doesn't peel in a nice, clean, straight line.
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I think the fact the mainstream media dropped this story the minute the confirmation of vandalism came out tells me all I need to know. If the park service was lying and there was no cut or other vandalism, CNN, NPR, MSNBC, ABC, CBS, et al would be all over the story. The reflecting pool was story #1 for weeks until Trump was proven correct. Suddenly, it is a story that cannot be found anywhere.
Well, that's typically how it goes. The MSM stirs up fury over an issue, then when it turns out they're wrong, they just drop it cold turkey and move on to the next rage point, which inevitably turns out to be wrong at which point they just drop it cold turkey and move onto the next rage point....do you see the pattern?
In this case, the NPS Deputy Director who announced the vandalism has been on the job since 2021, during the Biden administration.
If the lack of prosecutions compared to the number of violations makes you feel that there isn't a problem with illegal voting, do your feelings extend to DUIs? The number of people prosecuted for DUI is miniscule compared to the number of people who are actually driving under the influence. Do you think DUI laws should be eliminated since such a small percentage of violators are being prosecuted?
OK, fine.
However, guilty parties have to be identified by their commonality where appropriate no matter what the label.
Hard to believe that we can all agree on ANYTHING!! However i too Agree!!
The point was made above, but the strongest evidence that there was vandalism is that the media has absolutely dropped this story entirely from the news cycle. This story was absolutely dominating the headlines, then it just vanished without a trace.