Golfers - how do you play this?
- Thread starter RockyMtNole
- Start date
Completely disagree. I shoot 55 on nine holes and can keep up with bogey players. It the guys who fiddle **** around wagging their ***, checking range, wind, take three practice swings, etc that kill the game.
Perfect example was a group I played behind last weekend. Two guys would hit their ball same distance and be spread out about 20 feet from each other (20 feet apart in direction of the width of the fairway). First guy does his routine, takes his practice swings, hits the ball. The second guy hasn't even selected his club. They could practice swing simultaneously. The second guy could quickly hit after the first. The entire foursome did this. Third guy would be 10 feet in front of them, again not in anyone's view or path of the ball where he would be a distraction. He would stand back watch them hit, then take time to clean up the leaves and sticks around his ball. WTF have you been doing for the last five minutes? They all set their clubs down to watch the others hit. Keep the bag on your shoulder and as soon as the ball is struck, start walking to your ball. You know you're hitting next.
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I shoot 55 on 9 holes. Once of those might be an 8 stroke par 3 that I put into both water and sand. Two of those holes may be pars. I've gotten good enough that if I execute a perfect swing which I do 20% of the time, I'll drill some dudes in front of me. 20% of the time I may hit a drive 90 yards. The other 60% I'm fair to middle. I pretty much expect to wait. It's too dangerous not to. My coach has me doing course management type stuff where I will hit, for example, I may hit a 90 yard drive to the right, in the rough. I'll hit a 7 iron to play a safety shot back into the fairway. You would never hit a "2nd shot" where the guys are standing, but my 7 iron is good and I know it's range so I swing away because I'll never hit them. I can be a "bad" golfer but still know what I'm capable of.
Would you refuse if a single golfer asked your group to play through? I would have them T off with my group then let them get 2 shots ahead of my group before we resumed play. 13 year old Gester may have been wrong to T off on a par 3 with a group on the green, but refusing to let a single golfer play through your group is pretty rude as well.
Somewhere in my posting, I believe I made this known. It depends. If it's crowded (i.e. everyone is waiting), then, no ... he has to wait like the rest of us. Of course, one would wonder in that situation why a ranger would allow a single to go off alone if the course is crowded ...
If my group is slow and/or there's space between my group and the group ahead of us (or we can't even see any group ahead of us), of course I'll let him play through, as long as he's respectful (I would probably be looking back and already know if he's a real golfer or not, and playing respectfully).
The thing is, that's me being nice. The expectation shouldn't be that you play at your own pace, and play through ... it should be that you have your tee time, you're slotted in before some people, and after some others, and pace of play won't be exactly the same between groups. I've been in situations where my group, or I, could be up someone's arse on the course, but we chill. I've encountered just about all the potential situations of differing paces of play, number of players, rude/nice, etc. Just be normal.
What's never cool is to hit into a group. Ever. If Gester's golf pro buddy had talked to us like that, I'd be having a talk with the course management/owner and the PGA, after my discussion with golfproguy. And 13 year old Gester's daddy and I would have had a discussion, if I saw him/knew who he was.
I don't play much right now, but I went through a stretch where I played a ton. I was a LONG hitter, but also not a great golfer, overall. I dabbled in long-drive competitions before starting a family. But, on the course, I could shank the crap out of a ball, just as often as I would casually lace one with 315+ yard carry and an extra 30-40 yard bounce. So I would run into the "do I hit it?" issue a lot. It was uncomfortable sometimes when I played with folks I didn't know and they would all play their shots, and I waited ... and they're thinking "who's this guy think he is?" ... and then I'd chunk one and they'd probably laugh inside as I have to hit again. But I had to be cautious, because half the time, I'm hitting into those folks.
I see those as two different arguments.
If you're intentionally playing slow or not playing ready golf, then you're the issue. You should either let faster groups play through or be constantly aware of who's behind you.
The OP's question was different: should you hit simply because you can, even though you probably won't reach the group ahead? If the group in front is playing ready golf and is just waiting for the green to clear before putting out, then no, you shouldn't hit into them. There's no reason to pressure the group ahead when they're already keeping pace.
Every golf course that I've ever played encouraged groups to let faster players play through. In fact, prompt pace of play has USGA rules. There is no way a group of two or more golfers is going to play as fast as a single player. Another option is to invite the single player to join your group. Refusing to let them do either is rude and does not align with golf etiquette.
The pace of play commentary has nothing to do with this.
Regardless ...
A foursome does not automatically have to let a single play through. Standard golf etiquette dictates that a single player has "no standing" on the course and only has the right to play through if the group in front of them has an open hole ahead. [1, 2, 3]
According to Golf.com, passing a single through on a completely packed course simply adds congestion, as the single would just end up waiting behind the next group anyway. [1]
As I stated ... there is no "right of playing through" ... yes, it's being nice, and encouraged, to allow someone to play through when there's a distinct difference in pace of play AND there's clearly room in front of you. As I've already said.
So, if I'm in a foursome, and we're keeping pace with a foursome directly in front of us, and a single comes barreling up behind us, that single waits behind us. If we're a casual foursome and we're lagging, or there was a big gap between tee times, and there's a hole or more between groups, and a single comes up behind us, he's being offered to play through.
If my determination of who is and is not allowed to play through is not good enough for the single, and he decides to hit into my group, that ball is getting thrown back at him and he's getting talked to, and if it happens again, the cops are getting involved if we didn't already get the ranger in on things.
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You are definitely not the hallmark of normal. So I thank you for your judgement and wish you a great Sunday evening.
PS - Your ranting is making you look so cool too.
If your group is waiting on every T and there is a single golfer behind you waiting on your group inviting them to join your group probably eliminates your waiting on the group ahead of you and speeds up the play of the group behind the single golfer. I'm not talking about a "right of playing through", I'm talking about respectful behavior that helps every player on the course.
More than 4 players in a group is highly discouraged. If somehow a course was dumb enough to send off a single in the middle of a bunch of tightly-packed 4somes, you would ask the ranger what he recommends when he swings by. If he wants the single to join up with a foursome, so be it.
And the "right" that AI is referring to is the "right" in etiquette ... not some legal right. So, it's talking about the same thing you're talking about.
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Coming from a guy who still thinks it's cool (eff those guys, amirite?) to assault people because they don't play golf fast enough for his liking, or acquiesce to his requests to play through ... how cool I appear to you isn't really on my list of things I give a rip about.
Are you, in fact, still 13?
Rangers on golf courses is not something I've experienced in Iowa. On the courses I've played golfers need to use their own good judgement. The scenario Gester laid out seems like either letting the 13 year old play through or asking him to join their group would have been beneficial to everyone on the course.
Foursome has the rights on a golf course. If you are playing with all of your friends, and you are a lonesome, jump a hole in front and be on your way.
Seems like a group that refused to let a single play through might also complain to the pro about a golfer jumping to a hole in front of them.
Let me clear this up for you, it was a country club in a midsized Iowa town.
They didn't have tee times after Noon, even on the weekends. You could show up and be the only one on the driving range 75% of the time.
I would have been shocked if there were 8 other groups on the course at the time. And none were in front of these guys.
And yes, I remember pretty much that entire round - I don't forget things when I get dressed down by people I respect. I remember shooting par through three. I bogeyed 4 and 5. Double bogeyed six after putting one in the pond after waiting 10 minutes to tee off. I put my drive on 8 into Woodson St and shot a triple bogey. Bogeyed 9 and called it a day.
I remember the four guys in front of me drinking about a Busch Light a hole and two of them were smoking cheap cigars. So no, I take responsibility for my stupidity, but not 100% of the event.
And I am sure my father did in fact hear about it as he didn't let me go out and play alone for a while.
Why should I skip a hole because they don't want to be passed by a kid.
No, I am 7. I am Benjamin Freaking Button.
Are you in fact an 18th Century Dandy? Your pearl clutching makes it seem as much.
I was responding to the comment, "I'm not sure why people get upset because the course is slow, enjoy the day". I get upset because 1 group makes the pace of play slow for the entire course. My country club has a cart with your tee time programed. It's great. That round we went from 9 minute ahead to 16 minutes behind. 18 holes should take four hours. I wasn't justifying hitting into someone. I just get annoyed when I wait. Waiting forever between shots throws off any rhythm one might have. I also plan for a 4 hour round of golf. You can cut into the 4 hour round on your own time when you pretend to be Arnold Palmer, but do it when the course is empty.
My wife was on a small school division, state championship team and she loves the game. After that round she said, we are leaving and drove off after the 12th hole.
I can't help you with the lack of Rangers ... I don't know what kind of backward places you guys grew up in. You keep at this line of commentary, even though it's already been addressed, like you have Tourette's. Again, it doesn't matter how wrong, or not wrong, the foursome in front of him was ... hitting into them is, unequivocally the wrong thing. It is, in every way shape and form the most wrong thing here. The foursomes actions do nothing to excuse Gester's actions here.
And foursomes have the right of way. I'm not sure why you keep repeating bad information/conclusions.
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Well, you are, now, acting younger than 13, so it's more believable than this foursome having 50/50 responsibility for you assaulting them. You're on here crying that the big bad men made you try to hit them, and how it wasn't primarily your fault. I don't know about 18th Century Dandies ... I'll leave that subject matter knowledge to you. Do they know that assaulting people is bad? Do they know that "you made me hit you ... it's at least 50% your fault ... eff you" isn't an acceptable justification?
AI?
This is what AI said when I asked the question:
Those message board posters are relying on outdated golf rules from decades ago.
Historically, old etiquette guidelines stated that a single golfer had "no standing" on the course. However, the governing bodies of golf completely reversed this rule to speed up the game. [1, 2]
The governing guidelines from the USGA and R&A state that a single golfer is officially considered a group and has the exact same rights to play through as any other group. Priority on a golf course is determined purely by pace of play, not by group size. [1]
Here is how you can break down the debate for your forum thread:
The Actual USGA RuleThe official USGA Pace of Play guidelines explicitly state: [1, 2]
The One Huge Exception: Course CongestionThe posters who say "don't let them through" are only right in one specific scenario: when the golf course is completely packed. [1]
- If the course is wide open ahead: The foursome is strictly obligated to let the single pass. Holding them up is poor etiquette.
- If there is a bumper-to-bumper gridlock: If your foursome is already waiting on every shot because of the group in front of you, letting the single pass does nothing. They will just end up stuck one spot further ahead, and it slows down the entire weekend grid even more. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
The Perfect CompromiseIf the course is crowded but moving, the best move isn't waving them through—it is inviting them to join you. Merging the solo player into your foursome to make a temporary fivesome (if the course allows) or absorbing them into a smaller group keeps the total number of groups on the course down and keeps traffic moving smoothly. [1, 3, 4]
You know absolutely nothing about me.
But you choose to judge me.
That's on you.
I did a stupid thing when I was thirteen. What is your excuse as an old man.
I learned and grew from my incident.
You will always be a sanctimonious blowhard.
I am sorry that no one liked you enough to do you a favor growing up. Maybe they did and your too old to remember it.
Maybe you are just trying to show off to your Internet "friends.". Maybe you really have nothing better in your life than to pass judgement on someone.
Have a blessed week.
You did a criminal thing when you were thirteen. And, rather than take responsibility for it as an adult, you STILL say it was 50% the other guys' fault. You still say "eff them." And you could tell when you told the story, you were proud you got out of it ... the whole "what they didn't know ..." as if some hero stuff was about to go down.
What is this sad, desperate attempt at an insult that you've repeated ... "I am sorry that no one like you enough to do you a favor growing up." Plenty of people did me "favors." Never did I need to get bailed out by an adult covering for my bad acts. And never did I, after having to get bailed out, then still blame the victim for what happened. My parents taught me correctly. If I messed up, I went to that person and I apologized. And I took full responsibility and changed my actions.
It's not about the fact that you did something bad at 13. It's how you're reflecting on it, as if you didn't actually learn much of anything. I'm judging you based on how you're acting here. This was a slam dunk, and you still got it wrong.
AI?
This is what AI said when I asked the question:
Those message board posters are relying on outdated golf rules from decades ago.
Historically, old etiquette guidelines stated that a single golfer had "no standing" on the course. However, the governing bodies of golf completely reversed this rule to speed up the game. [1, 2]
The governing guidelines from the USGA and R&A state that a single golfer is officially considered a group and has the exact same rights to play through as any other group. Priority on a golf course is determined purely by pace of play, not by group size. [1]
Here is how you can break down the debate for your forum thread:
The official USGA Pace of Play guidelines explicitly state: [1, 2]
The posters who say "don't let them through" are only right in one specific scenario: when the golf course is completely packed. [1]
- If the course is wide open ahead: The foursome is strictly obligated to let the single pass. Holding them up is poor etiquette.
- If there is a bumper-to-bumper gridlock: If your foursome is already waiting on every shot because of the group in front of you, letting the single pass does nothing. They will just end up stuck one spot further ahead, and it slows down the entire weekend grid even more. [1, 2, 3, 4, 5]
If the course is crowded but moving, the best move isn't waving them through—it is inviting them to join you. Merging the solo player into your foursome to make a temporary fivesome (if the course allows) or absorbing them into a smaller group keeps the total number of groups on the course down and keeps traffic moving smoothly. [1, 3, 4]
I'm assuming Gester is old enough that he played under the "old rules" ... though the more he writes, the more immature he seems, so he could still be a kid. Regardless, let's assume the NEW facts in the light most favorable to him under the NEW rules ... it is still a breach in golf etiquette under changed rules not everyone may be familiar with, that go against decades of tradition v. assault. There's no "rudeness" comparison to be had here.
No defense,.. Encountering an ******* in life does not give one free license to also be an *******.
If there's room in front of a slow group there is absolutely no reason for them to complain about a single jumping in front, provided that single doesn't then hold up their play,.. When the conditions have been right I've occasionally jumped (2) holes just to make sure everyone stayed happy.
Sure, and in those conditions that slow foursome should actually offer the faster single an opportunity to play through without being asked,.. But when that slow group in front is so ungracious as to deny passage, you go around them,.. You most certainly don't hit into them.
I've jumped ahead and also started my round on different holes. I've also never encountered a group that would have refused to let a single play through if they asked. Gester was wrong to hit, but he was a 13 year old kid. When Gester asked the group of four adults if he could play through they were also wrong to refuse.
My point is that the group that refused to let him play through would likely complain if he skipped a hole to get in front of them.
Probably correct, but no reasonable course manager worth his salt would act on such a lame complaint,.. Phuck em.
I was 13 and I was shooting one of my better rounds up to that point.
I was dumb and did a dumb **** thing.
Contrary to any other poster's belief, I own that dumbness. But I won't own someone else's.
Even at 13 I had started the back 9 before. But there was no need for that on my home course outside of the tournament days. And unless I was competing, I stayed the hell away on tournament days.